Guild Wars 2

fixing thread.

JasmineLong.6514:

Grimezy.5679:

maha.7902:

Cut the staff ele for an engi – tadaa, similar dps but you actually have vuln stacking on top of it!

Why not just order a mass-deletion of people’s Ele’s while we’re at it? Clearly they’re good for nothing.

You’re taking these comments too personal IMO. No one said screw eles in fractals, just showing different comps. A ps war and an engi are a great combo for might and vuln since they can keep it up a lot better than other comps. Nothing is wrong with an ele in fractals but we can do without one and still manage. This is a PHIW game after all ;D

That’s fair enough

Just like everyone else can still do without a ps warrior and an engi and still get along fine

If you dont have an ele you miss out on a ton of aoe. You also miss out on larger radius blinds and good access to a wide variety of control conditions. You also miss out on best tank EU and a low cooldown large area projectile block and a spammable small radius projectile block.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Glyph_of_Storms
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Glyph_of_Elemental_Power
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Glyph_of_Elementals
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Conjure_Earth_Shield

Considering I mentioned replacing the ele with an engi of all things, I don’t think you’re missing out on much aoe. Larger blind area just seems completely pointless. Engis have CC condis and projectile defense as well – working alongside the guard you should have no problem maintaining it.

Dont agree on blinds considering cultists always use heartseeker from outside thiefs black powder. Engis chill doesnt compare to eles. And ele can get really good weakness uptime with glyph alone (not that you need it if you are using scale venom). Ive never been a fan of engi projectile defence, its not exactly low cooldown.

I wont dispute engi is probably good. None of my group plays engi enough to justify getting AR for it. But i would still prefer an ele in the group. We would never take more than one warrior so we would probably take engi instead of a second warrior. But then our favourite comp has always been war, ele, guard, mes and thief.

maha.7902:

elementalists effective in fractals ahahahahahahahahahaha

maha.7902:

I don’t even know what an ele offers to make it #1/#2.

Out of 14 fractals there’s only four fractals I see where an ele isn’t a necessity;
Mai Trin, Underwater, Jade Maw, Aetherblade.

All of the others become a lot smother when an ele is present, or have tactics that only an ele makes possible. Below are points only an ele would be able to bring to a party.

• Swamp – Mossman FGS, bloomhunger FB/Meteor shower
• Ascalon – Staff AoE and support, FB, ranged aoe blind
• Harpy – Old Tom safe house, FB/Meteor on end boss
• Cliffside – FGS archi
• Molten Facility – FGS/FB big pull at the end of the drill phase
• Snow – Line up meteor showers/FB against Ice elemental
• Grawl – Staff AoE against grawl, unblockable chill on shaman, Meteor/FB on elemental spawns
• Thaumanova Facility – Fast kill against ooze, allow for a 3 or 4 way split because of safe solo in prison room.
• Molten Duo – Fast/Easy kill on molten berserker and firestorm
• Dredge – FGS powersuit for a safe 15s kill, FB/Meteor dmg against ice elemental boss

The four mentioned fractals where an ele don’t shine as much;

• Mai Trin – Time difference with or without ele is 0, can protect the party from 100% of the pistol shots without lowering its own damage.
• Underwater – Very seldomly done
• Jade Maw – Time difference with or without ele is 0
• Aetherblade – Easy solo on the two traps, fgs on end. All in all, no big time difference if team is reliable.

Apart from whats already been mentioned, an ele provide ranged AoE blind, 15+ might stacks, permanent fury, close to permanent chill or cripple against bosses, good weakness, projectile block, coordinated deep freezes, good vuln stacking, cc and support.
All this while staying on top of the dps chart.

The only negative point I see is ele being squishy. But then again do eles have 300 range melee attack with Lightning whip making some bosses easy to survive. Fractals are no different from dungeons, saying an ele is not worth it because it goes down easily reflects only on the player.

You didn’t even read the thread so I’m not even going to bother responding

maha.7902:

Cut the staff ele for an engi – tadaa, similar dps but you actually have vuln stacking on top of it!

Engis have high vuln stacking, but you already get a large amount of vuln from the thief (sundering strikes), hammer guard (symbolic exposure + blind exposure), warriors (rending strikes), and the staff ele will bring a good chunk from weak spot as well.

I have nothing against bringing an engi, but in the team you’re referencing, a staff ele is really a better choice.

@ Snowball: Arguing that an ele is “mandatory” based on them bringing meteor shower or other DPS abilities really doesn’t make sense. At best it can speed up a run a bit, but things like projectile reflect, condition removal, and aegis are far more likely to be “mandatory” elements of getting through high level fractals than high DPS.

@LordByron

Please re-read my comment. If you do you’ll find that I said burning speed + lightning flash not fiery rush. This is fire dagger mainhand #3 and it has a similar effect to what it used to do with fiery rush.

Dahkeus.8243:

maha.7902:

Cut the staff ele for an engi – tadaa, similar dps but you actually have vuln stacking on top of it!

Engis have high vuln stacking, but you already get a large amount of vuln from the thief (sundering strikes), hammer guard (symbolic exposure + blind exposure), warriors (rending strikes), and the staff ele will bring a good chunk from weak spot as well.

I have nothing against bringing an engi, but in the team you’re referencing, a staff ele is really a better choice.

@ Snowball: Arguing that an ele is “mandatory” based on them bringing meteor shower or other DPS abilities really doesn’t make sense. At best it can speed up a run a bit, but things like projectile reflect, condition removal, and aegis are far more likely to be “mandatory” elements of getting through high level fractals than high DPS.

He’s not saying they’re mandatory just to get through the fractals, he’s a min/maxer. KING is well known for trying to push their times through fractals together and the very fastest known tactics always involve elementalists.

In my opinion, about the only mandatory class for fractals- if the other 4 party slots are from the variable pug roulette- is guardian. If you can’t rely on the utilities a guardian can bring, then everyone in the party has to make serious changes to how they approach encounters in fractals.

Purple Miku.7032:

Dahkeus.8243:

maha.7902:

Cut the staff ele for an engi – tadaa, similar dps but you actually have vuln stacking on top of it!

Engis have high vuln stacking, but you already get a large amount of vuln from the thief (sundering strikes), hammer guard (symbolic exposure + blind exposure), warriors (rending strikes), and the staff ele will bring a good chunk from weak spot as well.

I have nothing against bringing an engi, but in the team you’re referencing, a staff ele is really a better choice.

@ Snowball: Arguing that an ele is “mandatory” based on them bringing meteor shower or other DPS abilities really doesn’t make sense. At best it can speed up a run a bit, but things like projectile reflect, condition removal, and aegis are far more likely to be “mandatory” elements of getting through high level fractals than high DPS.

He’s not saying they’re mandatory just to get through the fractals, he’s a min/maxer. KING is well known for trying to push their times through fractals together and the very fastest known tactics always involve elementalists.

Yea, he said they are mandatory. I’ll quote the part below:

Snowball.3497:

Out of 14 fractals there’s only four fractals I see where an ele isn’t a necessity;
Mai Trin, Underwater, Jade Maw, Aetherblade.

I formulated this reply with in mind that of course anything works. Any party composition, using any builds, can and will eventually finish any content in this game.

I was simply arguing about why elementalist is considered #1/#2 tier in fractals.

You listed a bunch of things besides fiery Greatsword that other classes can do without being super squishy at the same time. So I’m still not seeing how a completely replaceable class is tier 1.

@Dahkeus, you’re still not getting it. He’s saying they’re mandatory if going for the fastest possible time and at the same time, smoothest if executed properly. He’s not saying it’s mandatory just to complete the fractal. Pay attention to what I’m saying please.

@maha – they may be capable of it, but they still deal worse DPS. Regardless of whether or not you like conjures or eles at all, they still are insanely helpful and beneficial.

You keep saying that everything that an ele can do other classes can as well, so you’re obviously not even taking into consideration how beneficial it is in a party to keep chaining deep freezes on bosses. Can an engineer do that?

So lets see – ~800 less DPS in return for quadruple the vulnerability stacking.

I know which one I’d take.

The best thing Ele’s contribute to a fractal team is perma-Fury, oddly enough. Everything else is something you can give or take or get better elsewhere. And since you only need one ele for perma-fury you should seriously consider how redundant a second one is and think about what other classes bring that might provide more team utility.

Still ignoring the deep freeze eh?

Have it your way then.

Don’t see the need for deep freeze.

My point was this – people were ranking ele higher than warrior, which was weird to me. They were saying ele can might stack AND do all this other stuff, which is not really true. They can’t might stack as well, or bring banners/ea. I think most people are going to take 1 guard and 1 warrior as a basis for their comp, and consider consider other classes after. Does that leave room for ele? Absolutely. But for me it’s a situational utility class like mesmer/thief.

Engis are mid tier, although I will say that picking up a turret will make the cd 15sec, so engis do have a 15sec delayed reflect projectile defence.