Guild Wars 2

So, I’ll preface this topic with this: I like Robert Hrouda’s changes to Ascalonian Catacombs prior to his leaving Anet. I think the story within the dungeon makes more sense now. (“Why do we need this NPC?” or “Why did we need to collect those sticks?” have much better answers when they’re part of the mechanics of the boss fights.) The boss fights are less of an HP sink and more require more thought and some strategy.

Still, having done the Ghost Eater several times now with some mixed groups of newer players and people who know the boss, I wonder now if this boss needs to reset and gain all its health back like most other bosses in the game do.

First, the boss requires a ton of organization. You need someone kiting the boss, someone lifting the ectos, someone pulling the ectos into the correct trap, you need someone leading the boss to the trap, you need that idiot to stop attacking the boss when its in its ghost form, you kitten idiot…! /ahem. This is all well and fun, but the problem is that Guild Wars doesn’t really give you great tools to do that kind of organization. Things will go wrong. And it’s hard to type in chat while you’re being hit with vulnerability AOEs. (Or, better yet, getting stuck in the chat window so you can’t move or enter commands to your character while being attacked.)

Sure, a group of veterans at this boss who know each other well, or guildies who have access to a voice chat, are probably not going to have a terrible time with this boss. But most dungeon groups aren’t like that, and the in-game doesn’t offer very good tools for tackling a boss that requires so much group coordination.

Second, the boss already heals itself, so it’s not like wiping on the boss won’t be punishing.

Third, AC is the lowest level dungeon. Yeah, the explorables should be a challenge. (And for the most part they are!) But that challenge (and the rewards) should be commensurate with the level of the players that should be expected/are allowed to play the content.

If you’ve managed to set off a one or a couple of traps, IMHO, and then most of your party wipes, I really don’t see why this boss should get all its health back. You’ve proven you understand the concept of the boss, even if you can’t execute it perfectly. And executing the mechanics of this boss gets old very, very fast. The Ghost Eater resetting just adds to player frustration, eats up time, and can really hamper a group that may be suffering from one inexperienced player/dingbat they need to carry.

What do folks think?

tl;dr: What is almost certainly the least-run boss in Ascalonian Catacombs would be more palatable if, once you have proven you understand the mechanics of the traps in the fight but then wipe (or partially wipe), the Ghost Eater didn’t reset and gain back all its health.

I think they should just make him suicide as soon as you select the path so you can get free tokens.

3rd option: solo it.

To be honest, I really like the boss. If you think and try figure it out you can get it done very easily (prechage all traps).
If it didn’t reset people would just mindlessly suicide against it.

Wethospu.6437:

To be honest, I really like the boss. If you think and try figure it out you can get it done very easily (prechage all traps).
If it didn’t reset people would just mindlessly suicide against it.

I like the boss, too. It has its issues, though.

As I explain in my post, I don’t think without the reset people would be able to “mindlessly suicide” the boss. You still have to set off the traps to hurt it in the first place, and the boss heals itself if you mindlessly attack it while it’s in ghost form. The reset just forces you to repeat the mechanic of the fight endlessly if you don’t quite get it perfect and you end up too far from the boss or wiping. I really don’t think that’s necessary.

You can charge traps without aggroing the boss. Charge one trap, pull, attack and suicide (or just run away). Repeat as many times as needed.
He won’t heal much unless people intentionally keep attacking him while he is in ghost form (and I don’t think you deserve to win then).

azureai.9764:

Still, having done the Ghost Eater several times now with some mixed groups of newer players and people who know the boss, I wonder now if this boss needs to reset and gain all its health back like most other bosses in the game do.

Yes it does.

azureai.9764:

First, the boss requires a ton of organization.

True, somewhat.

azureai.9764:

You need someone kiting the boss, someone lifting the ectos, someone pulling the ectos into the correct trap, you need someone leading the boss to the trap, you need that idiot to stop attacking the boss when its in its ghost form, you kitten idiot…! /ahem.

Wrong. Just don’t aggro him, let him kill Detha, and shoot him with your skill #1, this will make him spawn ecto’s, but won’t aggro him. Then charge as many traps as you need to kill him (be it 1, 2 or 3). Once you’re done, just pull him from trap to trap as many times as you need, and you’re game.

azureai.9764:

This is all well and fun, but the problem is that Guild Wars doesn’t really give you great tools to do that kind of organization. Things will go wrong. And it’s hard to type in chat while you’re being hit with vulnerability AOEs. (Or, better yet, getting stuck in the chat window so you can’t move or enter commands to your character while being attacked.)

Don’t PUG or get a guild with voip. If you don’t like doing any of these things, it’s up to you to deal with the consequences.

azureai.9764:

Sure, a group of veterans at this boss who know each other well, or guildies who have access to a voice chat, are probably not going to have a terrible time with this boss. But most dungeon groups aren’t like that, and the in-game doesn’t offer very good tools for tackling a boss that requires so much group coordination.

Quoting from another thread, and expect the information to be correct:

Broadicea.8294:

CJ

As for the question about PuG’s for explorable dungeons, we’ve said all along that explorable dungeons are intended for highly organized/skilled groups of players. That is absolutely the case

So, explorables were originally meant for highly organized and skilled group. Yet you seem to not be able to accept the fact that some paths are harder for unorganized teams? Like TA F/U and AC p2.

There are plenty of easy, faceroll paths already for unorganized groups. If you can’t live with the fact that some paths are too hard for unorganized groups, I suggest you join an organized group.

What I hate about Ghost eater is that it requires the use of environmental weapons.

Once you realize you can use the guns to spawn oozes without aggroing him the fight actually becomes fairly easy if you are coordinated. The intent when dungeons were designed was that they would provide a challenge for organized groups, although that ended up falling short for several paths.

Ghost eater is a pretty well designed boss imo. Fairly challenging and can be unforgiving. But once you know what to do its not too bad.

I was beginning to wonder if I was the only person who liked AC.

You should just not do AC p2. It prioritises learning a unique mechanic over learning the game and group combat.

It’s a DPS check, in a sense. While I think it was part of the intended mechanic that you be able to set traps while the boss is aggro’d, it’s fully possible to kill him in 3 traps (which can be set without aggroing).

If you have a decent amount of dps, it should take no more than 4, maybe 5 traps. After the first 3, all you need is 1 other person pulling globs with you while the 3 others kite. Agree on who will do this before hand, and decide wo will pull and who will lift.

If he does reset, you can simply try again (he doesn’t reset in a state that makes it more difficult the the second time, like TAkitten) Explain what went wrong, if it wasn’t obvious, and give it another go. If you aren’t in voip it might take a second attempt to get use to pulling with the other person in a timely manner, but it’s definently not impossible.

It’s an uphill battle sometimes if your running with a group of 4 who’ve never done that path – but that goes for any non-face roll path. People expect it to be like part 3 where you just stack in a pillar and mindlessly dps. They get presented with an interesting mechanic that requires some thought, and they resent having to turn their brains on. And to be fair, setting traps can be kind of tedious. But with one other competent person and 3 other decent players who can dodge, this boss is totally doable.

It took me 6 traps solo (few more hits and would have been 5 traps). Going over 3 traps means really poor DPS, especially when pre-charging.

You can kill it in one with pugs aslong as they dont chicken out and come in melee.

Maybe the pugs I run into have really poor dps then (I run zerker with rubies), and yeah, most of them are afraid to melee.

Out of curiosity, how did you set the traps solo? Did you kite the boss and then lift the slime when they were in the trap radius?

Yes, you can watch the video: http://youtu.be/yEDIB4TVYOU

some issues with ghosteater and the reason p2 is not run as often in pugs:

• charging the batteries just takes time and is boring after the first few times – the path is by far the longest due to the 3 trap defend phases anyway
• patriarch swipe is an instadown ability which is hard to see (especially during the time the trap goes off)
• he seems to only use the vapor blades attack if someone’s in range – though if all blades hit a melee player inbetween, he’s down instantly
• hes AI sometimes like to range people and not walk to the traps.
• aoes stay forever near the traps, letting you lose melee dps while he’s vulnerable and you just wait for the aoes to disappear

I think the fight could be made better with a few simple tweaks:

• firing more than one beam of each color at an ooze should kill it with an aoe that can aggro ghost eater.
• traps only take one ooze to charge
• hitting a trap should knock him down for 3 seconds until the light has disappeared – while still being invulnerable. this would stop him from instakilling people who can’t see anything as well as give a bit more time for the aoes to vanish
• limit the amount of enemies spawning during defense. killing a wave quickly shouldn’t be ‘rewarded’ by immediately spawning more mobs – this phase needs to get shorter for the dungeon to be interesting again.
• patriarch swipe.. well, it could use a better animation imho, though that’s debatable.
• vapor blade should not hit melee players or he shouldn’t use it if there are melee players available to attack
• ai.. I think he should always try to melee his enemies and use vapor blades and aoe attack on his way to them, allowing for better kiting options. right now he sometimes stops and just uses ranged attacks for some reason.

all in all most wipes I’ve experienced stem from someone not meleeing while the rest does after agreeing on that. ranging is generally not an option due to terribad dps.
I usually run AC 1-3 and if the group is good 2 as well. that works out pretty well, you can see if people are able and sane enough to stay in melee range on spider, graveling stalkers (the evading ones) and howling king. if that works, chances are, p2 shouldn’t be a problem either.

edit: no, he shouldn’t reset. traps should just be generally faster to load, maybe even more so if you wipe.

Ghost Eater doesn’t even have a melee attack so he will stay at range all times. Just run bit back to pull him correctly.

And the animations are really clear and attacks are used very consistently which makes them easy to dodge.

Wethospu.6437:

Ghost Eater doesn’t even have a melee attack so he will stay at range all times. Just run bit back to pull him correctly.

And the animations are really clear and attacks are used very consistently which makes them easy to dodge.

I’m fairly sure patriarch swipe is a melee attack (the one where he swipes in front of him with his claws).
it’s not even that hardhitting, but sometimes you just get hit multiple times by it. just like the vapor blades, only there it’s clear you just ate 5 projectiles.

I always see people melee dieing. I don’t know why.

Whenever people just precharge the trap and range and max dps is usually went better.

Oranisagu.3706:

Wethospu.6437:

Ghost Eater doesn’t even have a melee attack so he will stay at range all times. Just run bit back to pull him correctly.

And the animations are really clear and attacks are used very consistently which makes them easy to dodge.

I’m fairly sure patriarch swipe is a melee attack (the one where he swipes in front of him with his claws).
it’s not even that hardhitting, but sometimes you just get hit multiple times by it. just like the vapor blades, only there it’s clear you just ate 5 projectiles.

Patriarch Swipe = Vapor Blades, in this case.

if that’s the case, why don’t any projectiles appear on this attack, whilst other times the projectiles are clearly visible from the start? if it’s indeed the same attack, it’s animation is bugged.

I’m not sure why the projectiles aren’t appearing for you – maybe you are standing close to him? In any case, by the time you see the projectiles it’s probably too late to dodge anyway unless you are ranging him. Him raising right paw = dodge for patriarch swipe. Him putting his hands on his face = dodge for the AoE projectiles.

I’ve had multiple instance when he downed me immediately when the trap set off or I just wasted my endurance on the puddles.
alternatively, there are the instances where you are middodge, get teleported back and directly into downstate to where your dodge started.
I checked the combat log and saw 1-3 hits for patriarch swipe, depending on how much health I had left. there where no projectiles whatsoever – and since I didn’t eat all of them, there should’ve been at least 1-2 strays.

so no, his attack doesn’t always trigger the projectiles. and when it doesn’t, it looks exactly the same as his pre-patch melee attack.

Might be because I just woke up but don’t you get short invulnerability when getting downed? Which would mean absorbing all attacks but not appearing on combat log.

Also your allies might have got hit.

that could explain it. the projectiles spawn a bit in front of him – usually straight forward. if it’s possible for the projectiles to spawn slightly to the side or they simply have a larger hitbox than the graphics indicate (meaning about 120° in front of him are an instakill zone), they could just all hit the same person and once health is depleted, the rest could be absorbed by invuln.
though I still find it strange – I’ve watched a few vids and paused to see how the vapor blades behave. if someone dodges, they don’t get absorbed and fly past, yet I’ve experienced situations where I get the ‘evade’ notification and only eat 1 hit or not even that, yet no vapor blades appear nor do I get downed.

Correctly placed projectile reflection may reflect them back quite fast. Also I think you can evade the attack from Oozes which may cause random “evade” appear.
It is bit hard to say without seeing the video.