Guild Wars 2

Just looking to see what professions you guys think are the best at supporting / keeping dps up while on circle duty on the vale guardian. Usually have a heal druid, dragonhunter, mesmer and maybe staff ele on this duty. Wanted to hear what other professions like say condition necromancer are useful at doing this while keeping good dps on boss.

In non-elite groups it is often the case that the 2 Condi-Engis and the Druid + another one (Ele, Chrono if not tank) are running the circle.

The VG fight is pretty flexible for who you put on the circle since you don’t really need that much dps to kill it. Obviously the best candidates are the ones that lose the least dps from range; for my group that generally winds up being our 3 condi team members (engi/necro), the druid healer, and one more (our “extra” dps after 4 total rev+warrior).

It’s actually pretty bad to send the chrono onto lightning duty because that means your main dps (likely revs/warriors/other power) are missing out on quickness/alacrity and that can be a substantial dps loss overall.

If you’re running a non-tank dragonhunter it is extremely good for lightning team as you can give protection/aegis to help with seeker emergencies and lightning that spawns on the electrified floor.

This is someone off topic, but I would strongly recommend assigning 5 players to lightning team, at least after the first phase is over. Missing lightning even once can mean then end of your run, and VG is an extremely lenient fight in terms of dps once you learn the mechanics. There is little reason to risk having only 4 on lightning considering all the things that can go wrong in that case (1 person down to seeker, 1 person too far away, someone gets teleported, someone rolls off early). If you want a speed run then obviously only use 4, but if you are going for consistency then having the extra person is helpful. If you are having trouble with dps with 5 on lightning team you likely need to reevaluate your teamcomp or work on mechanics/rotations.

The druid and any condition necros are obvious candidates. Elementalists, condition warriors, and engineers lose very little from being on circle duty, and a DPS guardian isn’t too bad off from swapping to longbow (plus gives additional benefits from propping up the circle, as mentioned).

Also agree entirely on sending 5 people after the first phase (and especially after the second phase); a group that has the DPS for Gorseval will have no problem downing the Vale Guardian with a couple minutes to spare even when sending 5 people, and adding another 10 seconds to a successful VG kill is trivial compared to the time a wipe costs you.

Dinosaurs.8674:

It’s actually pretty bad to send the chrono onto lightning duty because that means your main dps (likely revs/warriors/other power) are missing out on quickness/alacrity and that can be a substantial dps loss over..

It is true. Correct continium split rotation are very important, there must be no extra distraction especially after first phase. Sometimes I just cant use any of my buffs because boss constantly moving and someone too far from circle and when circle ends, I cant do it again because guardian start his AoE attack etc, etc. Its happens mostly with randoms, so keep it in mind.

Note: “Cant do” means – not effective enough.

The advice in the above groups is all good. My only addition is that my group doesn’t usually ask eles to run circles for 2 reasons:

1. They almost always run the d/f fresh air build for VG which requires you to be close to the boss to do any damage at all.

2. They have incredibly small health pools which means they have a very hard time dealing with the seekers on the circles. They down often which can cause party wipes for your group. There are definitely easier classes to run circles on.

(Plus, they lack the cc that other classes can bring as they generally want to just camp fire if they’re playing staff.)

Dinosaurs.8674:

It’s actually pretty bad to send the chrono onto lightning duty because that means your main dps (likely revs/warriors/other power) are missing out on quickness/alacrity and that can be a substantial dps loss overall.

Would you care to explain that?
Alacrity and quickness come from shield phantasms, assuming the chrono uses shield, wells and time warp, all of which can be cast at a distance.
If the chrono can’t time the Continuum split between the green circles, then it’s a problem with the chrono and not with the fact that they’re on green circle duty.
One might even argue that it’s best for the chrono to stay out of its own wells and out of range of its illusionary avengers at times, since when running shield and using shatters, the chrono itself can easily stack up to 30 seconds of alacrity which could obviously benefit someone else instead.

So unless I’m missing something here…

You’re missing a lot of essential info, unless you are not playing chronomancer…
Shield Phantasms don’t give quickness. Half of the “permanent” quickness up time comes from signet of inspiration, which transfer quickness boon of the chrono to nearby allies. Hence, everyone else needs to be in range of the chrono. Some of the quickness contribution comes from Tides of Time, which requires the enemy to be in range. To keep up permanent quickness, the chrono needs 100% aclarity up time (no joke) – this also translate to high aclarity up time to everyone else.

If tank Crono:
3 Condition Engineers, 1 Druid, 1 Extra condition engineer for backup.

If other tank:
3 Condition Engineers, 1 Druid, Crono for backup.

My team is:
2 Revs, 2 PS Berserkers, Druid, Crono, 3 Engineers, DH Tank
OR
2 Revs, 2 PS Berserkers, Druid, Crono Tank, 4 Engineers

In both comps we kill VG with 1 minute+ left

Condi engineer is so much worse at VG than condi berserker it’s not remotely close. Condi berserker has slightly less CC so the players in the ranged group have to be much more on their game, but the DPS gain is nearly double.

NikeEU.7690:

Condi engineer is so much worse at VG than condi berserker it’s not remotely close. Condi berserker has slightly less CC so the players in the ranged group have to be much more on their game, but the DPS gain is nearly double.

Agreed with this. I’ve done the fight on lightning circle duty as both condi zerk and engineer and zerk is not only leagues easier, but also keeps up the optimal rotation a lot more since you don’t rely on melee as much.

Also, I found that people tend to overestimate how much cc is needed for seekers since everyone loves to go and stand in the circle asap. Not only is this a bad habit to get into once you get to the last phase (since this teleports become a threat to the circle group at that point), but it also leads to people face-tanking seekers when they’re on a circle instead of just waiting for the last minute to step on the circle so that they take less damage.

NikeEU.7690:

Condi engineer is so much worse at VG than condi berserker it’s not remotely close. Condi berserker has slightly less CC so the players in the ranged group have to be much more on their game, but the DPS gain is nearly double.

I keep constantly telling it to my guilds (main and raid community guild) but they simply do not believe me. I have full vieper warrior and engi both copy paste builds from your youtube channel. I think it is your fault (meta build creator) with your spreadsheets in a void (sorry ^^).

NikeEU.7690:

Condi engineer is so much worse at VG than condi berserker it’s not remotely close. Condi berserker has slightly less CC so the players in the ranged group have to be much more on their game, but the DPS gain is nearly double.

Engineer has more DPS on first, second, and fourth phase.

lightning has 8 seconds cooldown and 8 seconds lit till explode, napalm has 30 seconds cooldown, firebomb 10, blowtorch 15

So if you stay ALL 8 seconds with the lightning up in range, you will still be able to use all those skills most of time on cooldown.

VG on third phase moves once every 20 seconds, and once every 15 seconds on fifth phase, so its still not a problem.

Berserker is good on big HitBoxes, not on small ones.

Did my first run with guildies, on my ele. And I agree with the above, we have very low HP pools, so found myself struggling to stay alive, which meant less focus on DPS. I had to swap to water a few times to keep myself alive.
I think the tip to wait a bit before getting on circle will help tho.

(Just got a condi set for my war though, so will be running that most likely)

harold.3526:

NikeEU.7690:

Condi engineer is so much worse at VG than condi berserker it’s not remotely close. Condi berserker has slightly less CC so the players in the ranged group have to be much more on their game, but the DPS gain is nearly double.

Engineer has more DPS on first, second, and fourth phase.

lightning has 8 seconds cooldown and 8 seconds lit till explode, napalm has 30 seconds cooldown, firebomb 10, blowtorch 15

So if you stay ALL 8 seconds with the lightning up in range, you will still be able to use all those skills most of time on cooldown.

VG on third phase moves once every 20 seconds, and once every 15 seconds on fifth phase, so its still not a problem.

Berserker is good on big HitBoxes, not on small ones.

Feel free to post a video of a condi engie pulling better dps on this boss. I’d be excited to meet the best engineer in the game. =)

harold.3526:

NikeEU.7690:

Condi engineer is so much worse at VG than condi berserker it’s not remotely close. Condi berserker has slightly less CC so the players in the ranged group have to be much more on their game, but the DPS gain is nearly double.

Engineer has more DPS on first, second, and fourth phase.

lightning has 8 seconds cooldown and 8 seconds lit till explode, napalm has 30 seconds cooldown, firebomb 10, blowtorch 15

So if you stay ALL 8 seconds with the lightning up in range, you will still be able to use all those skills most of time on cooldown.

VG on third phase moves once every 20 seconds, and once every 15 seconds on fifth phase, so its still not a problem.

Berserker is good on big HitBoxes, not on small ones.

Sorry, just not buying it. Even in phase 1, you can keep up a perfect rotation more on a warrior since you need less melee time than an engi.

On phase 2 and 4, you can easily land scorched earths with the connections between fields on top of the guardian for double burn ticks since he’s so stationary.

Dahkeus.8243:

harold.3526:

NikeEU.7690:

Condi engineer is so much worse at VG than condi berserker it’s not remotely close. Condi berserker has slightly less CC so the players in the ranged group have to be much more on their game, but the DPS gain is nearly double.

Engineer has more DPS on first, second, and fourth phase.

lightning has 8 seconds cooldown and 8 seconds lit till explode, napalm has 30 seconds cooldown, firebomb 10, blowtorch 15

So if you stay ALL 8 seconds with the lightning up in range, you will still be able to use all those skills most of time on cooldown.

VG on third phase moves once every 20 seconds, and once every 15 seconds on fifth phase, so its still not a problem.

Berserker is good on big HitBoxes, not on small ones.

Sorry, just not buying it. Even in phase 1, you can keep up a perfect rotation more on a warrior since you need less melee time than an engi.

On phase 2 and 4, you can easily land scorched earths with the connections between fields on top of the guardian for double burn ticks since he’s so stationary.

Rotation is not a problem for engi if you are used to the fight and your rotation. You can use your close ranged attacks on cool down with still doing green circles if you time things right. Granted your engi may not be that good. And your berserker does not need to be that good to pull off DPS that is only a bit under. I don’t think anyone wants to go to the effort to make a vid showing this but if anyone feels so passionate about it they feel moved to do so I’d say go for it.

Engi dps is meh, bad rng will spawn circles making you miss a blowtorch, 2 fire bombs, static shot, concussion bomb and possibly 2 poison dart volleys while also requiring your engineer to have much better aim with grenade aiming and possibly forced into mortar AA.

However considering the fight is not dps heavy, engi is a great choice for pugging because: soft cc, hard cc, blast finisher on a 6 sec cd, 2 water fields per engineer(plus druid can get 2 more easily), scrapper if you take it for passive regen when you have swiftness and function gyros.

If someone holds red guardian still, condi wars can get 2 fields on him and warriors are able to soak damage better and have strong passive regen, plus banners, and banners give regen on condi war builds.

Andraus.3874:

Dahkeus.8243:

harold.3526:

NikeEU.7690:

Condi engineer is so much worse at VG than condi berserker it’s not remotely close. Condi berserker has slightly less CC so the players in the ranged group have to be much more on their game, but the DPS gain is nearly double.

Engineer has more DPS on first, second, and fourth phase.

lightning has 8 seconds cooldown and 8 seconds lit till explode, napalm has 30 seconds cooldown, firebomb 10, blowtorch 15

So if you stay ALL 8 seconds with the lightning up in range, you will still be able to use all those skills most of time on cooldown.

VG on third phase moves once every 20 seconds, and once every 15 seconds on fifth phase, so its still not a problem.

Berserker is good on big HitBoxes, not on small ones.

Sorry, just not buying it. Even in phase 1, you can keep up a perfect rotation more on a warrior since you need less melee time than an engi.

On phase 2 and 4, you can easily land scorched earths with the connections between fields on top of the guardian for double burn ticks since he’s so stationary.

Rotation is not a problem for engi if you are used to the fight and your rotation. You can use your close ranged attacks on cool down with still doing green circles if you time things right. Granted your engi may not be that good. And your berserker does not need to be that good to pull off DPS that is only a bit under. I don’t think anyone wants to go to the effort to make a vid showing this but if anyone feels so passionate about it they feel moved to do so I’d say go for it.

I don’t need a vid. I’ve done the fight with both condi zerk and condi engi. Even if you time everything perfectly, you’re still not going to be able to pull off a perfect rotation on engi and you’re a lot more likely to on war.

3 condi engis + druid, always. Druid heals and condi engis deal barely average dps to VG, since he has A) low armor and B) moves a lot.

I agree warrior is better then Engie.

However Xyonon is exaggerating (probably hates engie for a weird reason). The best i saw from warrior is 11k burn. Most of time it was down to 7k. Bleeds were pretty low sometimes a 3k spike, but really really rare). So basically 7-11k dps (+ power).

What does engie have? spikes of 16k burn (i admit they are rare, but they are there), stacks poison, confusion, and bleeds also very well in a good rotation. Longbow auto attack from warrior has always been one of the weakest damage things. It still is. 1200 per hit. A nade deals 1500 (sinister), PER single grenade (thats 3 per strike). Pistol 2 does 6k damage (though long channel).

A very well played engie (supported by a group that knows how to handle engies weaknesses, like a druid healing you every now and then), is about 80-90% as strong as the warrior. So reason to kick engie? not at all.

That being said, this video, convinced me, that warrior is the holy grail in raids. Wich is a bit sad. But my v iper armor for it is already half made.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

I agree warrior is better then Engie.

However Xyonon is exaggerating (probably hates engie for a weird reason). The best i saw from warrior is 11k burn. Most of time it was down to 7k. Bleeds were pretty low sometimes a 3k spike, but really really rare). So basically 7-11k dps (+ power).

What does engie have? spikes of 16k burn (i admit they are rare, but they are there), stacks poison, confusion, and bleeds also very well in a good rotation. Longbow auto attack from warrior has always been one of the weakest damage things. It still is. 1200 per hit. A nade deals 1500 (sinister), PER single grenade (thats 3 per strike). Pistol 2 does 6k damage (though long channel).

A very well played engie (supported by a group that knows how to handle engies weaknesses, like a druid healing you every now and then), is about 80-90% as strong as the warrior. So reason to kick engie? not at all.

That being said, this video, convinced me, that warrior is the holy grail in raids. Wich is a bit sad. But my v iper armor for it is already half made.

If you mean Nike’s video, he peaks 15k burn on red guard and 13k on normal vale. While it takes a few seconds to build up, it’s more than 7k burns for sure.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

I agree warrior is better th+*a*+n Engie.

However Xyonon is exaggerating (probably hates engie for a weird reason). The best i saw from warrior is 11k burn. Most of time it was down to 7k. Bleeds were pretty low sometimes a 3k spike, but really really rare). So basically 7-11k dps (+ power).

What does engie have? spikes of 16k burn (i admit they are rare, but they are there), stacks poison, confusion, and bleeds also very well in a good rotation. Longbow auto attack from warrior has always been one of the weakest damage things. It still is. 1200 per hit. A nade deals 1500 (sinister), PER single grenade (thats 3 per strike). Pistol 2 does 6k damage (though long channel).

A very well played engie (supported by a group that knows how to handle engies weaknesses, like a druid healing you every now and then), is about 80-90% as strong as the warrior. So reason to kick engie? not at all.

That being said, this video, convinced me, that warrior is the holy grail in raids. Wich is a bit sad. But my v iper armor for it is already half made.

It’s probably because I love engi so much, that I know exactly how much damage they deal. It’s nothing about spikes, it’s about dps. If a condi war deals 7-11k dps, he has serious issues.

Btw if you want some real damage numbers of the condi engi, let me know and I’ll give them to ya. I mean you are way off with poison dart volley for example, wich deals 17’500 damage over 2 sec. Nade auto is really is only 5’200 tough :/

1500×3 (wich is maybe not very clear, but in my past for sure) = 4500. Not far off from your nade. And nade 3 has very much bleeding.

As about poison dart volley: after fired, you see about 3k poison damage on the screen tick for a few secs. That is why i take 3k as dps. Ofc it’s a bursty skill, doing much more in it’s casting time frame, and a bit fewer when on cd, lingering off.

I’m also starting to experiment with with JaxnX dps meter. It seems to work good, but not great over a long time. And if you really spam to much different conditions, it seems it cannot keep up (wich is a shame, cause spike dps is the most interesting imo with such meter.)
If you get your rotations perfect (and dodges, so you dont loose time), i think my engie can sustain 10-11k dps (7k burn + 3k other source, +1k power dps, maybe more).

11k engie, versus (to my eyes, on average) 13-14k warrior. Not much diff imo.

I’m using SINISTER armor though. Rune of the berserker. I think warrior has the crazy advantage that he does so much burn spam that that +45% burn duration runes are insanely good, better then the 300-400 condition damage flat out runes (rune of undeath etc).

This video guy (DNT) clearly had NO issues (they are good at what they do). Looking at THAT very vid, i see 14k dps. If you see more please explain to me.

Anyhow, it’s not like i don’t agree. It’s 90% likely i will make heavy viper ascended armor, this month because of it.

Some things to notice: The warrior had frost spirit (no biggie, but still), Sun spirit (this is a biggie, my engie never had sun spirit support, wich means this warrior extra dps is partially justified by better support), i think sun spirit is about 700-900 dps extra. He also has the 3% damage/condie damage when druid heals (by trait) buff often, i rarely have that as green circle duty. These two things make for me the warrior not look as good as he should. I speak from a pug point of view (in wich DnT ofc completely crushes with superior team capability).

That beind SAID: Warrior has one advantage, that in the movie was not shown: Alacrity is better suited on warrior. Most engineer skills have an annoying channel time of about 1 sec, alacrity in the end will stop being usefull if all those skill cost cast time. Warrior skills are faster, and easier to reach (only two weapons skills, with probably fast hands). Having alacrity on a few, very strong skills, then more ‘mediocre skills’, the first is better, in wich the warrior would take more advantage. To my eyes, the DnT warrior never had alacrity, so that could push it for sure.

The normal full buffed condi engi achieved 18k dps withtout quickness and alacrity, second will affect the dps greatly and I expect to get up to ±22k with a decent uptime. But I’ll let you know when I’ve done these calculations :P

Against VG this is a lot worse ofc, but the engi dps is quite good since the big skills cd match with the green fields. Just save your nades for those green fields and you’re fine. In the end, the engi has more to do than just dmg, wich means pushing, slowing and rooting the seekers aswell protect allies from dmg and grant super speed. I’d say in reality you’re pretty close with ~15k dps on condi engi against VG.

About the warrior, sadly I don’t play one myself (yet) and I’m not 100% sure how much damage they do against VG. That’s why I can’t help you out there :/

I play both, condi bers and condi engi. Damage-wise I wouldnt say they are that different. Skill-wise they definitely are.

If you want to get max dmg with engineer and run green circles, you have to really watch your skills cd and absolutely never get teleported, even though you have to get close to boss off-circle. With a condi bers its just way more relaxed to get close to the same numbers.

Mortar AA? Never used it, sorry. I use my time out of range of boss more productive, with seeker cc, helping healing up etc.

That being said… as a poor soul that has to pug raids… Id rather have a bad condi bers than a bad condi engi. At least condi bers usually cant knock seekers into melees and gets at least a decent 6k dps on boss.

To answer the OP’s question: Druid + 4 condi is usually your best bet for VG. Having 5 people on the green team is crucial for your first few kills as that dramatically lowers the chance of you wiping.

As for the whole Condi Engi vs Condi Berserker debate, I just find it sad that the hardest class to play in pve does less dps in most realistic raid scenarios than one of the easiest classes to play(which also has the highest survivability to boot). That said, players new to VG will probably still want more condi engis as it makes life easier for the green team. However, once VG is on farm, condi wars will probably become more useful due to the higher dps output.

Yasi.9065:

Mortar AA? Never used it, sorry. I use my time out of range of boss more productive, with seeker cc, helping healing up etc.

That being said… as a poor soul that has to pug raids… Id rather have a bad condi bers than a bad condi engi. At least condi bers usually cant knock seekers into melees and gets at least a decent 6k dps on boss.

Couldn’t agree more. Mortar aa are poor 2.7k dps, yet mortar 2 deals a decent 9k dmg, better than nothing i’d say :P Anyway, that’s exactly what you should do – “be more productive with seeker cc and heal / mobility / protection”. About your 2nd statement: So kitteng true <3

Selya.5039:

As for the whole Condi Engi vs Condi Berserker debate, I just find it sad that the hardest class to play in pve does less dps in most realistic raid scenarios than one of the easiest classes to play(which also has the highest survivability to boot). That said, players new to VG will probably still want more condi engis as it makes life easier for the green team. However, once VG is on farm, condi wars will probably become more useful due to the higher dps output.

It’s a matter of time until ANet changes that F1 to be a single fire field instead of many little ones. That’s the gamebreaking mechanic the condi war can abuse and I’d be surprised if it wouldn’t change with the next balance patch.

Btw Xyonon, any advice as ‘engie seeker duty’ on how to push 2 (or even 3, if they are stacked closely) seekers all the way back with 1 skill?

My problem often is that, because they are not close to each other, if you stand between them, just a little back (towards pillar with boss), that if you use Bomb F (toolbelt skill) huge knockback, or flamethrower knockbac, that sometimes, instead of going to the middle of the room, they do sideways, wich means they almost didnt get knocked ‘away’. how do you prevent a mess like this? I mean if you ask me push ‘1 seeker away, that is your duty’, easy as cake, but i’m very often finding myself responsible for all 3 (cause nobody else using CC skill). A well timed big old bomb does wonders, however, badly times (or interfered with chill, immobalize at wrong time etc), can bring huge mess (even as bad as knocking them towards the melee team).

Secondly, what do you do as engie, if you start taking huge damage, and your healing is already on cd? i try to use water field + flamethrower blast finishter but sometimes it doesnt work. Is the druid then responsible for you? Cause some ppl say ‘druid only focussed melee, if ranged get damaged, they have to ’solve it themselve’.

I think i might delay on the warrior viper armor. A nerf like you think will happen, might actually happen. Secondly apart from that build, warrior is still boring to me (just don’t like the class). Engie i love a lot, and i have plans to make ‘H.o.p.E’ legendary, and a new hammer if it comes out (dont like juggernaut). I will try to maximize engie dps first, see how it goes.

Since when was mortar AA and healing/CCing mutually exclusive? When I ran on engi, I did both…

Pop healing turret, knockback if needed, then spam mortar until in range of grenades. Even if you only get 1 cast of AA off, it’s better than just running around without doing anything.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

Btw Xyonon, any advice as ‘engie seeker duty’ on how to push 2 (or even 3, if they are stacked closely) seekers all the way back with 1 skill?

My problem often is that, because they are not close to each other, if you stand between them, just a little back (towards pillar with boss), that if you use Bomb F (toolbelt skill) huge knockback, or flamethrower knockbac, that sometimes, instead of going to the middle of the room, they do sideways, wich means they almost didnt get knocked ‘away’. how do you prevent a mess like this? I mean if you ask me push ‘1 seeker away, that is your duty’, easy as cake, but i’m very often finding myself responsible for all 3 (cause nobody else using CC skill). A well timed big old bomb does wonders, however, badly times (or interfered with chill, immobalize at wrong time etc), can bring huge mess (even as bad as knocking them towards the melee team).

Secondly, what do you do as engie, if you start taking huge damage, and your healing is already on cd? i try to use water field + flamethrower blast finishter but sometimes it doesnt work. Is the druid then responsible for you? Cause some ppl say ‘druid only focussed melee, if ranged get damaged, they have to ’solve it themselve’.

I think i might delay on the warrior viper armor. A nerf like you think will happen, might actually happen. Secondly apart from that build, warrior is still boring to me (just don’t like the class). Engie i love a lot, and i have plans to make ‘H.o.p.E’ legendary, and a new hammer if it comes out (dont like juggernaut). I will try to maximize engie dps first, see how it goes.

Well does it matter where they are knocked back to? I mean in the first phase you only have to knock back the close one once and keep him slowed, or twice and slow the far two seekers, after that they despawn, repeat.
Normally ofc you have at least 3 engis and each of them will slow and cc one of the seekers. In our guild we always use mortar slow right away on all 3 of them, then each of the engis says “push” before they do so with FT for the close one, so no push gets wasted. All our pushes (FT and bomb) are “away from you”, wich means you can’t really push enemies in the same direction unless they are stacked perfectly. But that’s no problem imo, at least not in that situation.

About the healing, I use gyro since HT is a waste against VG imo. You’ve got better heal for yourself, even better for all the engis there are and the protection allows you to take almost no damage from greens and VG in breakbar phase. Mortar 5, toolbelt and FT 2 also help. Also will scrapper allow you to heal by swiftness and superspeed, mainly the second thing I’ll show you ingame how I do this if you’re on.

greez
- Ziggy

Dahkeus.8243:

Since when was mortar AA and healing/CCing mutually exclusive? When I ran on engi, I did both…

Pop healing turret, knockback if needed, then spam mortar until in range of grenades. Even if you only get 1 cast of AA off, it’s better than just running around without doing anything.

Ofc you do use mortar aa over nothing in a “out of range” time. Yet this time is also the best to just use mortar slows and pistol 5’s to cc seekers aswell to heal yourself, since in this time you’ll lose the least dps. Better than to have to do so when you are in melee and could deal loads of dmg But overall, yea sure, I totally agree with you!

greez
- Ziggy

Same guild. Sorry to say but war>engi.
Also, Anet balance according to pvp, and warrior is in a bad spot there, so…

@Ryn

What this vid clearly shows is that the engineer gets completly swamped by the tasks he should be doing. I don’t care about “famous” people or guilds, this engi plays poorly and struggles with his own rotation. Look at how often he’s only spamming nade aa while other skills like barrage, poison nades, shrapnel nades or poison shell are off cd. He does unnecessary pushes who even miss and doesnt throw nades while moving to the green fields …

Engi is harder to play, warrior is easy. That’s what this vid shows. It’s hard to tell how much damage both of them really deal or rather WOULD deal if there was a decent engi playing. I’d say war deals a bit more damage, yet engi got cc for seeker. But in the end the condi professions dps don’t matter too much on VG since he only has 2000 armor and power professions deal the real damage to him.

Xyonon.3987:

@Ryn

What this vid clearly shows is that the engineer gets completly swamped by the tasks he should be doing. I don’t care about “famous” people or guilds, this engi plays poorly and struggles with his own rotation. Look at how often he’s only spamming nade aa while other skills like barrage, poison nades, shrapnel nades or poison shell are off cd. He does unnecessary pushes who even miss and doesnt throw nades while moving to the green fields …

Engi is harder to play, warrior is easy. That’s what this vid shows. It’s hard to tell how much damage both of them really deal or rather WOULD deal if there was a decent engi playing. I’d say war deals a bit more damage, yet engi got cc for seeker. But in the end the condi professions dps don’t matter too much on VG since he only has 2000 armor and power professions deal the real damage to him.

I don’t think he ever used Poison Shell…

I think war does a bit more steady damage, and engi is better for groups which struggle with the green circle task, especially with a poor lead that results in circle spawns repeatedly in the lit section. I’ve seen really good engi play and honestly, I don’t believe that condi berserker is the best choice here – just easier to push a bit more dps for an average group.

Iris Ng.9845:

Xyonon.3987:

“wall’o’text”

I don’t think he ever used Poison Shell…

I think war does a bit more steady damage, and engi is better for groups which struggle with the green circle task, especially with a poor lead that results in circle spawns repeatedly in the lit section. I’ve seen really good engi play and honestly, I don’t believe that condi berserker is the best choice here – just easier to push a bit more dps for an average group.

My toughts exactly. Warrior reaches his limits pretty fast, wich makes him easier to be played “good enough”. As for condi engi, there is always room to become better, wich imo gives you a much better gameplay expirience and fun.

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

any advice as ‘engie seeker duty’ on how to push 2 (or even 3, if they are stacked closely) seekers all the way back with 1 skill?

Get right on the edge of the seekers aoe and push. You can also place healing turret ahead of time and detonate it for a small knockback on seekers. Big ol bomb is placed a half-step in front of you, you can then follow it up with a glue shot to keep the seeker in the correct place when the explosion goes off.

You also don’t need to always push them, magnet bomb on kit swap can pull seekers onto you(dodge) then immobilize them and they will usually despawn soon after. Fire mortar 3 ahead of the tank where the next seeker is spawning to give melee players more time to move the boss. I also pull a lot of aggro on engi, so you can just walk away from the group and half the seekers follow you anyways.

You could’ve avoided all this blabbering back n’ forth and summed it up by: engi has good ccs and better healing; warr is easier, has steadier, more reliable dps and personal survival. No turret, though, what a shame.
Spreadsheeters are almost always gonna pick the latter. You pick the one you see fits your team the most.
I’d go engi in a puggy team. And if you’re still unsure and shaky on green aoe duty, well… it sounds kinda puggy.
… or go double mes, huh. Who needs green duty anyway.

deSade.9437:

You could’ve avoided all this blabbering back n’ forth and summed it up by: engi has good ccs and better healing; warr is easier, has steadier, more reliable dps and personal survival. No turret, though, what a shame.
Spreadsheeters are almost always gonna pick the latter. You pick the one you see fits your team the most.
I’d go engi in a puggy team. And if you’re still unsure and shaky on green aoe duty, well… it sounds kinda puggy.
… or go double mes, huh. Who needs green duty anyway.

Yea, lots of comparisons of war vs engi for green circle, but honestly, if you get a decent player, you’ll clear VG just fine regardless of whether they play engi or war.

Most ppl are at that phase where they think about “how do we defeat X?”. Others on the other hand are already asking themselves “how do we do it the fastest?”. That’s the point where you start to do profession vs profession stuff.

And yea, I guess you’ll have the least dps loss with two expirienced mesmers to avoid green fields (we tried this the very first week, it works great!). They now even deal great dmg against VG, so nothing to be ashamed of (having 2 mes).

FYI, poison shell isn’t a dps increase over grenade auto attack. But hey, don’t let that stop you from attacking Zel and feeling good about yourselves.

NikeEU.7690:

FYI, poison shell isn’t a dps increase over grenade auto attack. But hey, don’t let that stop you from attacking Zel and feeling good about yourselves.

And “for your information”, poison shell is a dps increase over grenade auto attack.

With 2832 condi damage and 66.4% condi duration (+33% for bleeding) while using your recommended meta build:

Tooltip stats (heavy armor target):

ø Grenade damage full buffed
power: 2797
condi: 2583
cast time: 1.00s
total damage: 5380
damage per sec of invested time: 5380

ø Poison Gas Shell damage full buffed
power: 2125
condi: 6149
cast time: 0.80s
total damage: 8274
damage per sec of invested time: 10342

And against VG:

ø Grenade damage full buffed
power: 3635
condi: 2583
cast time: 1.00s
total damage: 6218
damage per sec of invested time: 6218

ø Poison Gas Shell damage full buffed
power: 2761
condi: 6149
cast time: 0.80s
total damage: 8910
damage per sec of invested time: 11138

But hey, don’t let that stop you from not using it and feeling good about yourself. :P

I feel bad because Nike has a point about a good engineer player.

Xyonon.3987:

NikeEU.7690:

FYI, poison shell isn’t a dps increase over grenade auto attack. But hey, don’t let that stop you from attacking Zel and feeling good about yourselves.

And “for your information”, poison shell is a dps increase over grenade auto attack.

With 2832 condi damage and 66.4% condi duration (+33% for bleeding) while using your recommended meta build:

---

Tooltip stats (heavy armor target):

ø Grenade damage full buffed
power: 2797
condi: 2583
cast time: 1.00s
total damage: 5380
damage per sec of invested time: 5380

ø Poison Gas Shell damage full buffed
power: 2125
condi: 6149
cast time: 0.80s
total damage: 8274
damage per sec of invested time: 10342

---

And against VG:

ø Grenade damage full buffed
power: 3635
condi: 2583
cast time: 1.00s
total damage: 6218
damage per sec of invested time: 6218

ø Poison Gas Shell damage full buffed
power: 2761
condi: 6149
cast time: 0.80s
total damage: 8910
damage per sec of invested time: 11138

---

But hey, don’t let that stop you from not using it and feeling good about yourself. :P

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shrapnel

This trait exists.

Take it easy!

Did you include both banners, assassin’s presence, fury, might, empower allies, 25 vuln as well as 39.9% crit chance + 10% against bleeding foes. Sharpshooter also is a 33% chance to inflict a 3sec bleed.

Is any time lost when you swap in and out of the kit?

NikeEU.7690:

Xyonon.3987:

NikeEU.7690:

FYI, poison shell isn’t a dps increase over grenade auto attack. But hey, don’t let that stop you from attacking Zel and feeling good about yourselves.

And “for your information”, poison shell is a dps increase over grenade auto attack.

With 2832 condi damage and 66.4% condi duration (+33% for bleeding) while using your recommended meta build:

---

Tooltip stats (heavy armor target):

ø Grenade damage full buffed
power: 2797
condi: 2583
cast time: 1.00s
total damage: 5380
damage per sec of invested time: 5380

ø Poison Gas Shell damage full buffed
power: 2125
condi: 6149
cast time: 0.80s
total damage: 8274
damage per sec of invested time: 10342

---

And against VG:

ø Grenade damage full buffed
power: 3635
condi: 2583
cast time: 1.00s
total damage: 6218
damage per sec of invested time: 6218

ø Poison Gas Shell damage full buffed
power: 2761
condi: 6149
cast time: 0.80s
total damage: 8910
damage per sec of invested time: 11138

---

But hey, don’t let that stop you from not using it and feeling good about yourself. :P

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shrapnel

This trait exists.

Take it easy!

The said trait also conveniently applies to Mortar. Take it easy!

SlyDevil.3952:

Did you include both banners, assassin’s presence, fury, might, empower allies, 25 vuln as well as 39.9% crit chance + 10% against bleeding foes. Sharpshooter also is a 33% chance to inflict a 3sec bleed.

Is any time lost when you swap in and out of the kit?

Should also consider the time lost when ground target the moving Vale Guardian in that line of logic.

God, the childish passive aggressiveness here is just ridiculous.

Redo the calculations with shrapnel, but take into account that it has multiple triggers from grenades vs the single one from mortar.

Iris Ng.9845:

SlyDevil.3952:

Did you include both banners, assassin’s presence, fury, might, empower allies, 25 vuln as well as 39.9% crit chance + 10% against bleeding foes. Sharpshooter also is a 33% chance to inflict a 3sec bleed. You also go into grenade kit for other attacks so kit swapping into and out of it and possibly losing time is spread between all the skills you would use, which won’t necessarily occur if you go into mortar for just poison shell.

Is any time lost when you swap in and out of the kit?

Should also consider the time lost when ground target the moving Vale Guardian in that line of logic.

Considering both attacks ground target in the exact same way it doesn’t matter, and grenade has 3x the proc chances on shrapnel and sharpshooter.

SlyDevil.3952:

Iris Ng.9845:

SlyDevil.3952:

Did you include both banners, assassin’s presence, fury, might, empower allies, 25 vuln as well as 39.9% crit chance + 10% against bleeding foes. Sharpshooter also is a 33% chance to inflict a 3sec bleed.

Is any time lost when you swap in and out of the kit?

Should also consider the time lost when ground target the moving Vale Guardian in that line of logic.

Considering both attacks ground target in the exact same way it doesn’t matter, and grenade has 3x the proc chances on shrapnel and sharpshooter.

One leaves a field of ticking conditions, the other applies all conditions on impact. I think that’s what they meant. Either way, there’s plenty of similar assumptions, just like dropping Napalm.

Grenade has narrower AOE and shorter range, and we’re all talking about the green circle duty afaik. Running all the way to be in range to aa grenade… yea, right. Besides, Xyonon also pointed out more mistakes aside from Poison Shell. I just pointed out that the engi dude didn’t use poison shell when the opportunity arises as people seem to underestimate Poison damage a lot.