Group abusing pugs to sell raids

Group abusing pugs to sell raids

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Huttunen.8309

Huttunen.8309

I just joined to a Xera pug run, advertized as a 150+ LI group which I thought to be a group that had potential to kill the boss. Instead, it had a commander using pugs to sell the raid for two people. He didn’t tell it to the people joining to the group, meaning that he had zero intentions to share the cut for people joining the run. He was even streaming the run and openly admitting doing this in the stream and in whispers. I spent one hour wiping at it and got to know all about this afterwards. I would not be annoyed if it was just a normal failed pug, but it was me and many other people being used to make money for another person.

Anet justifies selling instanced content and I’ve always been okay with it, but isn’t this taking it a bit too far? Trying to lure in players for their own selfish needs from LFG, and without even mentioning what is actually happening in the run. I took screenshots and reported him for LFG abuse, and would really want to say his name here so people could avoid him, but it would probably just get this post deleted. After a long time of raiding this is the first time I experience something like this, and I don’t want anyone else stumble upon something like this ever again.

Thoughts about this? I really think this is an offense worthy of a ban and I’m really amazed that someone is actually doing something like this

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Posted by: zealex.9410

zealex.9410

Im actually suprised that the buyers choose someone who would pugg their bought kills.

Group abusing pugs to sell raids

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Posted by: Vinceman.4572

Vinceman.4572

Don’t spend that long in a 150 LI pug. Although I advise everybody to not leave after one try because it’s annoying as hell for the others next time just have a look at the progress and if you think it’s really possible to kill the boss.
With 150 LI you should be experienced enough to estimate if it’s going to work or not after 2-3 pulls. 1 hour of wiping is definitely too much for an amount of 150 LI.

Took me 3 runs of the dungeon to get the bug.

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Posted by: Illconceived Was Na.9781

Illconceived Was Na.9781

If you have specific evidence of someone doing this, report it via Support ticket or email. Include the relevant screenshots and description. Let ANet decide how to handle it.

It’s a miserable experience to be used for someone else’s profit, whether it’s as you described or being kicked just before a boss so someone else can leech. However, it’s not our job to investigate, let alone prosecute or punish people who might be breaking Terms of Service or crimes against the GW2 community (whatever we might define those to be).

ANet hires people to do this. And while I’m sure we’d all prefer that this be done more efficiently and more visibly than we’ve seen in the past, it remains up to them to decide what’s acceptable and what’s not.

tl;dr report it, move on. You have better things to do, like enjoy the rest of the game and most of the community.

John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”

Group abusing pugs to sell raids

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Posted by: Huttunen.8309

Huttunen.8309

If you have specific evidence of someone doing this, report it via Support ticket or email. Include the relevant screenshots and description. Let ANet decide how to handle it.

It’s a miserable experience to be used for someone else’s profit, whether it’s as you described or being kicked just before a boss so someone else can leech. However, it’s not our job to investigate, let alone prosecute or punish people who might be breaking Terms of Service or crimes against the GW2 community (whatever we might define those to be).

ANet hires people to do this. And while I’m sure we’d all prefer that this be done more efficiently and more visibly than we’ve seen in the past, it remains up to them to decide what’s acceptable and what’s not.

tl;dr report it, move on. You have better things to do, like enjoy the rest of the game and most of the community.

Thanks for your advice, ill send a support ticket! I did not want people here to investigate it, just wanted to hear opinions about it since it is quite awful thing to do in pugs. It’s obvious Lfg abuse and should really be punished.

@Vince the group had the potential to kill it so i stayed there, just those buyers were anchoring us down as one of them was a druid and neither of them had and idea what to do and what was going on.

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Posted by: Vinceman.4572

Vinceman.4572

@Vince the group had the potential to kill it so i stayed there, just those buyers were anchoring us down as one of them was a druid and neither of them had and idea what to do and what was going on.

If you wipe for an hour the group has no potential to kill – it’s a training at best.

Took me 3 runs of the dungeon to get the bug.

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Posted by: Huttunen.8309

Huttunen.8309

@Vince the group had the potential to kill it so i stayed there, just those buyers were anchoring us down as one of them was a druid and neither of them had and idea what to do and what was going on.

If you wipe for an hour the group has no potential to kill – it’s a training at best.

And that is why I left the group in the end. It had many 10-20% tries so i decided to play till my food buffs run out, but in the end too many mistakes were made so I left. It’s the only boss I’m missing this week anyway so i was more persistant than usually

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Posted by: Eternaab.2638

Eternaab.2638

Hello,

Let’s clarify a few things about that run who occured yesterday.

I was one of the two persons, and I can tell without a dubt that your version of the story is… How to say ? Not really accurate.

I agree ‘bout that druid who kept failing & failing, hardworking to understand every mechanics of Xera and, let’s be honest, his build.

Now, you’re telling we both failed. That’s perfectly wrong. I didn’t fail neither die for the whole time, instead I kept rezzing downed people, and was one of the highest DPS. Some pugs weren’t even able to glide correctly to travel from a platform to another, but were proudly showing +150 Li. What a joke.

Personally, I got ~80 Li. I’m playing war cPS most of my time, knowing each mechanic of every boss, and doing a DPS sensibly near of the qT benchmark. You can try me whenever you want, on any boss, you got my IGN.

Now, I’m buying from time to time because, as anybody else, I got a life and can’t always kill 13/13 every weeks. It’s also pretty hard to find great pugs groups with only 80 Li when 90% of commies ask for 100-150 Li big minimum.

Now, about the “seller” who you think wasted your time. I don’t know him for long, but there’s one or two things you maybe do not know. He takes a load s… of time and effort to explain, in vocal & chat, how to successfully kill the boss you want to kill. He puts hours, really, to be sure you will not fail. And even more, he offers you that help freely, and sometimes help you to get your kills just for free.

He’s not doing this to be the richest kitten. He’s simply doing this to buy his foods, & enjoying the game as everyone else would like to do. I’m pretty sure he can shows you off how rich he is. He got a ridiculous amount of golds. You’ll just see by yourself that he’s not proposing his services to make golds, waste everyone’s time, etc. The only mistake he did yesterday night was to think the other buyer, who played druid, would quickly understand what was going on. Despite his explanations, the buyer just failed over & over.

However, I only got one question : how many people on this game are putting so much time & effort as he does, to help newly arrived ppl in raids to kill efficiently ? I’m pretty sure you’re not of those people. It’s probably easier to cry here because you wasted, just by yoruself, 1 hour of your life. You were free to leave whenever you wanted, and despite the fact you knew what was going on, you stayed. Why ? it’s not like he was trying to hide it. He was streaming, and shared his twitch to everybody.

That’s all I had to say.

(edited by Eternaab.2638)

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Posted by: Vinceman.4572

Vinceman.4572

Well Eternaab, what you still haven’t understood till this point is that it is a abysmal impertinence to take players with little to 0 experience, take money from them, put them in a squad and then ask 150 LI players to join to kill a boss without them knowing in the first place that this run is most likely to fail because there are “hidden” players in this squad who had never or rarely beaten it.
Look from the other perspective: You see the LFG popping up with “Xera – 150 LI” (and maybe more requirements) and you join there because you think that a 150 LI group will be able to kill her. The thing is you don’t know that there are people inside this group that have no clue at all (at worst) and they prevent you from killing the boss which could be killed in 1-5 attempts in a group with these requirements.
As player with 150 LI you are left in uncertainty about those “bad apples” and that’s absolutely unfair to them.

Took me 3 runs of the dungeon to get the bug.

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Posted by: insanemaniac.2456

insanemaniac.2456

80 li in a 150+ run sounds hypocritical to me =/

JQ: Rikkity
head here to discuss wvw without fear of infractions

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Posted by: Eternaab.2638

Eternaab.2638

Vinceman: I did understand that point, that’s the whole subject of my post. Please, read it again, completly and conscientiously. If you omit half of what I’ve written, it’s a total nonsense.

Insanemaniac: Your post sounds hypocritical to me as well. :-) (I would be glad to debate about your comment, but it lacks of intelligence and arguments)

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Posted by: Zaraki.5784

Zaraki.5784

Since it’s forbidden to expose character names here on forum, could you please pm me with his name? I need to block him.

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Posted by: Vinceman.4572

Vinceman.4572

Vinceman: I did understand that point, that’s the whole subject of my post. Please, read it again, completly and conscientiously. If you omit half of what I’ve written, it’s a total nonsense.

Insanemaniac: Your post sounds hypocritical to me as well. :-) (I would be glad to debate about your comment, but it lacks of intelligence and arguments)

I’ve read your post again and I still stand by my comment!

The OP wanted a Xera kill within a standard group that required him to bring 150 LI like it’s a usual thing in the lfg.
OP brought it, wiped with you about an hour without getting the kill and afterwards he was told that 2 players were selling gold to a third one who offered them the kill.
So obviously this is a very dirty attitude of that seller because he gets gold for a thing others help to achieve and those other see nothing of this gold plus they didn’t even get the kill although you can expect a group with such requirements to get it.

Selling raid kills is fine as long as everyone in the squad is ok with that procedure – which one usually finds in static groups not in pugs. But it’s not right to cheat on the OP and pretend it to be a casual pug run with everybody knowing and having enough experience while it is not the case. If I want my weekly kill like the OP within a pug and I would know about 2 buyers in there I would immediately leave that one to get a clean and sober kill without wiping an hour!
As being said he didn’t know about that in the first place so he wasted an hour of his gaming time because others cheated on him. If you tell all your pugs that you are selling, that’s fine but in this case he wasn’t told so it’s an impertinence.

Took me 3 runs of the dungeon to get the bug.

(edited by Vinceman.4572)

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Posted by: Huttunen.8309

Huttunen.8309

Vinceman: I did understand that point, that’s the whole subject of my post. Please, read it again, completly and conscientiously. If you omit half of what I’ve written, it’s a total nonsense.

Insanemaniac: Your post sounds hypocritical to me as well. :-) (I would be glad to debate about your comment, but it lacks of intelligence and arguments)

I’ve read your post again and I still stand by my comment!

The OP wanted a Xera kill within a standard group that required him to bring 150 LI like it’s a usual thing in the lfg.
OP brought it, wiped with you about an hour without getting the kill and afterwards he was told that 2 players were selling gold to a third one who offered them the kill.
So obviously this is a very dirty attitude of that seller because he gets gold for a thing others help to achieve and those other see nothing of this gold plus they didn’t even get the kill although you can expect a group with such requirements to get it.

Selling raid kills is fine as long as everyone in the squad is ok with that procedure – which one usually finds in static groups not in pugs. But it’s not right to cheat on the OP and pretend it to be a casual pug run with everybody knowing and having enough experience while it is not the case. If I want my weekly kill like the OP within a pug and I would know about 2 buyers in there I would immediately leave that one to get a clean and sober kill without wiping an hour!
As being said he didn’t know about that in the first place so he wasted an hour of his gaming time because others cheated on him. If you tell all your pugs that you are selling, that’s fine but in this case he wasn’t told so it’s an impertinence.

This, every post from Vince exactly tells my thoughts about this issue

I expected to find people who are somewhat experienced in the boss and hopefully resulting in a kill, not some dude selling it to two people for his own gain. He told nothing to me that it was indeed a selling run and even if he did, I would have left immediately. This would all be okay if it was advertised as a selling run, but it was just disguised as a normal 150+ LI run.

Even if this commander is a pug god helping newbies, it tells something about what kind of person he really is if he abuses random people like this, and only tells me I don’t understand after he confesses what was happening. I’ve done a fair share of newbie helping too Eternaab, don’t know how much this commander has done it and I don’t even care

I’m not salty about this, I got over it 30min after I left the group but I’m just amazed someone actually does stuff like this

(edited by Huttunen.8309)

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Posted by: Illconceived Was Na.9781

Illconceived Was Na.9781

At best, the organizer was misleading; they didn’t give folks a chance to find out what they were getting into.

  • The organizer sold a supported training run without having a full team to support it.
  • They advertised for an experienced group while having demonstrably inexperienced people in the group.
  • They weren’t upfront about what they were doing.

It wouldn’t surprise me if this isn’t enough for ANet to take an interest. However, it’s enough that I still recommend that the OP file a ticket: ANet isn’t a fan of people taking gold from others under pretenses.

Certainly the issue is murkier because the organizer is putting out their time and willing to type/talk a lot to help people learn; they aren’t motivated solely by greed. That aspect is commendable. That’s all tarnished by how they’ve gone about organizing.

John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”

Group abusing pugs to sell raids

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Posted by: narcx.3570

narcx.3570

Personally, I got ~80 Li. I’m playing war cPS most of my time, knowing each mechanic of every boss, and doing a DPS sensibly near of the qT benchmark. You can try me whenever you want, on any boss, you got my IGN.

Now, I’m buying from time to time because, as anybody else, I got a life and can’t always kill 13/13 every weeks. It’s also pretty hard to find great pugs groups with only 80 Li when 90% of commies ask for 100-150 Li big minimum.

I don’t get why you would ever buy a kill if you play CPS, don’t fail mechanics, and hover around the benchmark… Any reward you’d get from that bought kill can’t possibly justify the cost. It’s not like you lack the ability to do the encounter normally. So, maybe you can’t find a Xera group one week? Is it really worth 500 gold to get that last LI? 0.o

And in my experience, nobody in LFG even cares about LI’s anymore… If they care about anything, it’d be linking your Legendary Armor, Precursor Armor, or Crystalline Heart because it shows more than just doing VG/Escort/Gorse every week for 50 weeks.

And even if they reeeaaaalllly want you to have 150 LI’s, just fake an item code like all the other nubs do… If you don’t suck, nobody will call you out on it—or even care that you faked it in the end.

As for the person selling the raid… I dunno, have some care in your craft. If you’re selling a raid to 2 people, you need to have that content on 8-man carry lockdown. Not pugging rando’s and wasting 2 hours on your “customer’s” time. If they wanted to wipe on a raid for two hours they could have done it for free.

(edited by narcx.3570)

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Posted by: nagr.1593

nagr.1593

I’ve read your post again and I still stand by my comment!

The OP wanted a Xera kill within a standard group that required him to bring 150 LI like it’s a usual thing in the lfg.
OP brought it, wiped with you about an hour without getting the kill and afterwards he was told that 2 players were selling gold to a third one who offered them the kill.
So obviously this is a very dirty attitude of that seller because he gets gold for a thing others help to achieve and those other see nothing of this gold plus they didn’t even get the kill although you can expect a group with such requirements to get it.

Selling raid kills is fine as long as everyone in the squad is ok with that procedure – which one usually finds in static groups not in pugs. But it’s not right to cheat on the OP and pretend it to be a casual pug run with everybody knowing and having enough experience while it is not the case. If I want my weekly kill like the OP within a pug and I would know about 2 buyers in there I would immediately leave that one to get a clean and sober kill without wiping an hour!
As being said he didn’t know about that in the first place so he wasted an hour of his gaming time because others cheated on him. If you tell all your pugs that you are selling, that’s fine but in this case he wasn’t told so it’s an impertinence.

Wow bro, it seem like just yesterday when I am complaining of commanders with to mildly put it ‘bad attitude’, and most others were saying something along the lines of ‘commander of squad has ultimate authority over his group and who joins it and what rules he set’ but obviously we are say something different here..

Tbh the OP did state clearly that the seller was the leader of that group, so by forum logic he did nothing wrong by his actions and if any people were against that they were always free to leave, at any time.

From what I gathered, a commander speaks for group regardless whether or not majority agrees with him. E.g, if he wants only 1 ps war or only healer druid (no rev, no other class) then that his decision to make. So one can hardly fault him for not asking groups permission on something or even putting them on a need-to-know basis.. It might be an impertinence as is said but it’s only just that, just a slap on the wrist nothing more.

I hope this clear things up for op: this behavior is not even worth reporting for and if u are solely pugging then yes before long you will encounter similar or worse pugs as this..

Arun Kar

(edited by nagr.1593)

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Posted by: Vinceman.4572

Vinceman.4572

Impertinence stays impertinence, no matter what you were writing.
If you would have read properly I haven’t told the OP to report this commander as such I don’t know why you quote my post. That makes no sense at all.

But I’m pleased that you have understood this time and also think that the behavior of this commander was absolutely a bad move and showed a very bad attitude.

Took me 3 runs of the dungeon to get the bug.

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Posted by: Astralporing.1957

Astralporing.1957

Wow bro, it seem like just yesterday when I am complaining of commanders with to mildly put it ‘bad attitude’, and most others were saying something along the lines of ‘commander of squad has ultimate authority over his group and who joins it and what rules he set’ but obviously we are say something different here..

No, we aren’t, because you missed one important part of that argument. Yes, the commander has the right to set any rules for the squad. As long as the squad is informed about those rules. It’s exactly withholding that information that is an issue here.

There’s no difference between commanders withholding informations from the squad, and joinees concealing that they don’t fulfill lfg requirements. In both cases someone is intentionally misleading other players.

You may not like many of the LFG requirements and think they are dumb (and in many cases i’d agree with that), but players lying to other players is something that generally doesn’t end well and should be heavily discouraged.

Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November

(edited by Astralporing.1957)

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Posted by: abullenfla.9632

abullenfla.9632

I never bought a raid but if i were to buy one i would expect a 9,8,7 man group where everyone is aware that it’s a sold run and gets a share of the money and if the boss doesn’t die on the second try i would feel scammed because i didn’t spend the gold to waste my time with 20 tries and they should be capable of killing the boss with the buyers dead without a problem. And searching for pugs that are not aware that it’s a sold run is also extremely shady. I mean the pug joining expects a 150 li group and not a group where it’s a sold training run for 2 persons that are in no way related to the rest of the group and those buyers have no reason to actually tryhard to kill the boss i mean they didn’t buy a training run they bought someone to carry them while they have to do nothing. It’s different if it’s a guild run because even if they have one or two persons in their 150 li run that don’t hit the 150 li requirement those people are probably tryharding and have explanations from their guildmates.

I mean the guy selling the raid could have opened a lfg for the pug with “LF 1 CPS xera 150li two low li people are buying the raid you get nothing of the money” but noone would join that request because it’s a waste of time.

Also to the guy who said the commander of that group takes their time to explain everything and make sure they succeed. Thats most training runs and they do it for free if anything the commander sold coaching for a boss that doesn’t have a lot of training groups with no guarantee of a kill which he probably didn’t advertise to the buyers a sold raid kill should be an 9/8/7 man party that can kill the boss without any effort from the buyers.

(edited by abullenfla.9632)

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Posted by: Sillytune.1580

Sillytune.1580

Alright, consider this to be an official statement from a guy who sold the Xera raid, and who sells raid in general.

- Before we start i’d like you to know that “i do get it” that this opinion of mine will not be highly accepted, however i’ll still share my part – and regardless of what you here are doing or saying, will continue to do raids my way.

The player above, who posted this post, is a person who used to raid with me about a year and something ago, when i “busted my ass” to explain tactics & make entertaining raids, for my fellow guildies and so.

Now let me tell you, i’ve pugged a lot, my stream’s basically a “autistic rant” regarding “french players & bad pugs in general” – which may or may not be entertaining
[Do come viewbot at twitch.tv/johnscfreeman]
[SHAMELESS SELF PROMOTION]
… Now jokes aside

My raids that i sell usually last 20 to 25 min, when they’re focused on one person only.
The kill will happen within 2 to 5 tries.
The “fiesta” on |xera| was an exception – and an error on my end, and my end only.
Do know, that – the people that i sell raids to, know how i do, it, what we do.
I give them a choice – if it is alright with them, we may continue, if it isn’t, that’s perfectly alright.

The way i’m justifying this is pretty simple, in all my time “pugging” i’ve seen commanders fail mostly themselves, and ending up getting carried by rest of the 9 players, or they have a friend that they themselves want to carry.

The pugs will stick, or they will not.

This way – the way that i am selling, i am selling my services as a good raid-leader, and basically a host.
- Should i not profit out of something that i am good at?
- But the PUGS don’t know that you’re doing it?

And why exactly should they care? I usually have 1 to 3 people with me, that’ll carry the raid themselves.
a PUG with “enough LI” who is “a decent player” [Do know that i have taken people with 50 or less LIs to raid, but firstly they had to convince me to keep them]
They’re only interested in:
a) killing the boss
b) having fun

They’re free to stick around, and they’re both free to leave, even after first try or in pre-creation, if they’re not satisfied with something.

That’s about it, i don’t feel like i’m abusing anyone, that 1 person which i am selling raid to, is usually a 1 person that you would have in a raid anyway.

That’s it from me, enjoy folks.

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Posted by: Vinceman.4572

Vinceman.4572

Yeah, and that’s why we call you out on having a bad habit.

You sell raids?
No problem at all. It’s not forbidden and a lot of us here have done in the past or are still doing.

You pug those selling runs?
Again, no problem at all.

You are not telling pugs that there are people in the squad who pay you money and maybe are unexperienced as hell?
That, mister, is a problem. A problem of bad habit and attitude!

It doesn’t matter if there is everytime this “one little pug that has to be carried”. You advertised a “150 LI” pug run. So, if I join, I expect your group to be able to kill that boss and everybody is bringing the same requirement. That counts for every single player in this squad.
I personally don’t want to carry players along the road if I would see such a group in the lfg.

So, it’s an unsocial procedure, worse than any others I have seen so far. Referring to your statement above it seems like you are in EU and that results into a spot of my block list.
Keep doing your stuff, I don’t care any longer but don’t believe that your excuse are accepted here by anyone.

Took me 3 runs of the dungeon to get the bug.

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Posted by: insanemaniac.2456

insanemaniac.2456

This way – the way that i am selling, i am selling my services as a good raid-leader, and basically a host.
- Should i not profit out of something that i am good at?
- But the PUGS don’t know that you’re doing it?

bring yourself down a notch and split the profits with the pugs, because its not just your leading that kills the boss. that you seem to think so makes you a bad leader not worth following.

JQ: Rikkity
head here to discuss wvw without fear of infractions

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Posted by: Rednik.3809

Rednik.3809

I hope this clear things up for op: this behavior is not even worth reporting for and if u are solely pugging then yes before long you will encounter similar or worse pugs as this..

This is a clear abuse and fraud, and ABSOLUTELY worth reporting asap and with as many people in raid as possible. And I do hope that this guy will get at least temporary ban and all his gains will be confiscated from him.

Kiijna, Xast, Satis Ironwail, Sekhaina, Shira Forgesparkle, Sfeno, Nasibi, Tegeira, Rhonwe…
25 charracters

(edited by Rednik.3809)

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Posted by: Aenaos.8160

Aenaos.8160

This is so profoundly wrong.
The commander withheld important information about the raid group set up,mislead the players that joined in the LFG,and used the pug in order to make gold.
But hey,it’s ok.He does it all the time…
There is a word for guys like that but I don’t want to get an infraction.

-Win a pip,lose a pip,win a pip,lose a pip,lose a pip,
lose a pip,win 2 pips,lose a pip,lose a pip…………..-
-Go go Espartz.-

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Posted by: Cyninja.2954

Cyninja.2954

Alright, consider this to be an official statement from a guy who sold the Xera raid, and who sells raid in general.

- Before we start i’d like you to know that “i do get it” that this opinion of mine will not be highly accepted, however i’ll still share my part – and regardless of what you here are doing or saying, will continue to do raids my way.

The player above, who posted this post, is a person who used to raid with me about a year and something ago, when i "busted my kitten to explain tactics & make entertaining raids, for my fellow guildies and so.

Now let me tell you, i’ve pugged a lot, my stream’s basically a “autistic rant” regarding “french players & bad pugs in general” – which may or may not be entertaining
[Do come viewbot at twitch.tv/johnscfreeman]
[SHAMELESS SELF PROMOTION]
… Now jokes aside

My raids that i sell usually last 20 to 25 min, when they’re focused on one person only.
The kill will happen within 2 to 5 tries.
The “fiesta” on |xera| was an exception – and an error on my end, and my end only.
Do know, that – the people that i sell raids to, know how i do, it, what we do.
I give them a choice – if it is alright with them, we may continue, if it isn’t, that’s perfectly alright.

The way i’m justifying this is pretty simple, in all my time “pugging” i’ve seen commanders fail mostly themselves, and ending up getting carried by rest of the 9 players, or they have a friend that they themselves want to carry.

The pugs will stick, or they will not.

This way – the way that i am selling, i am selling my services as a good raid-leader, and basically a host.
- Should i not profit out of something that i am good at?
- But the PUGS don’t know that you’re doing it?

And why exactly should they care? I usually have 1 to 3 people with me, that’ll carry the raid themselves.
a PUG with “enough LI” who is “a decent player” [Do know that i have taken people with 50 or less LIs to raid, but firstly they had to convince me to keep them]
They’re only interested in:
a) killing the boss
b) having fun

They’re free to stick around, and they’re both free to leave, even after first try or in pre-creation, if they’re not satisfied with something.

That’s about it, i don’t feel like i’m abusing anyone, that 1 person which i am selling raid to, is usually a 1 person that you would have in a raid anyway.

That’s it from me, enjoy folks.

Thanks for responding. Instant added on my block list (not that I pug a lot but still).

As other have stated, it’s not the issue that you are selling raids. It’s how you are going about it.

It’s the fact that you are withholding vital information from pugs who you have join under false pretense asking way higher experience from them than the people you are selling the raid to.

You are essentially taking advantage of others or else you could openly communicate that you are selling the run or you could fill up with more inexprienced players.

Group abusing pugs to sell raids

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Absurdo.8309

Absurdo.8309

Why wouldn’t you quit after the first run? Seems like you’re complaining about a problem you could’ve fixed yourself.

Group abusing pugs to sell raids

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Illconceived Was Na.9781

Illconceived Was Na.9781

Why wouldn’t you quit after the first run? Seems like you’re complaining about a problem you could’ve fixed yourself.

Their point is that they wouldn’t have invested time in the process had they had access to all the facts.

John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”