Guild Wars 2

Brainstorming here.

Unlock requirement: a large amount of that dungeon’s tokens.

Changes:
- Improved AI
- More enemy health
- Enemies hit harder (making skipping difficult/impossible)
- Maybe dungeon specific debuffs or quirks?
- Emphasis on coordinated team play (eliminating stacking)
– I hate that stacking kills the designed dungeon mechanics
- Others?

Rewards:
- More gold and tokens for completing
- Achievements (of course)
- Others?
- Maybe RNG drops for very rare weapons (or Black Lion Tickets?)

Any additions, comments, criticisms? Please share!

stacking… this!!!! if there is a thing that annoys me the most, is the stacking “strategy” just to kill a boss “ezly”…

The Fun factor in fightes like these is lost…

Oh good, so the stacking hate has leaked from the dungeon subforum into general as if it is an illegitimate strategy. Muppets.

I proposed something like this at time ago, don’t got any answer from ANET.

I think in the hard mode like a extra path that you can do only one time at day, that give extra tokens, extra gold, chance to get exclusive rare dungeon relates skins and weapons. Like the aether path on TA, but without removing any other path.

I hope some day ANET give us this.

Punch.3507:

- More enemy health
- Enemies hit harder (making skipping difficult/impossible)

ugh. I’m kinda sick of higher HP pools being equated with tougher content and one-shot mechanics are lame. Give me better AI, more complex less predictable AI, and i’ll be happy.

As for stacking… while i do think stacking against a wall and dodging into the wall is really cheesy i don’t understand why people are so hostile to everyone being in close proximity to each other. That’s the basis of stacking. You don’t need the wall or anything, you can stack in the middle of the room. I love it when people join me in melee range because then i’m not having to chase after the boss all the bloody time! But if you don’t want to join me in melee so be it. I’ll just show you my intimate knowledge of the encounters by being the only one in melee and still barely getting hit.

You know, it’s actually kinda funny. People complain that the game’s all about damage but then when people use a tactic that exponentially boosts the effectiveness of support people continue to complain.

Punch.3507:

- Emphasis on coordinated team play (eliminating stacking)

Disconnect, here. If you’re talking against glitching at walls, say so. If you’re talking about mechanics (like Oozes in TA-AP), say so. Otherwise, stacking is the only meaningful coordinated team play available, because all team-play mechanics (buffs, defensive procs, combo fields) occur at short range. The antithesis to stacking is uncoordinated team play with everyone doing their own thing.

- you’ll still have the same ‘pros’ looking for skippable bits…

Enemies have more health, hit harder, and make it so you can’t stack. So range each mob for 5 mins while safe-spotting? Sounds like a winner.

skipping means skill so why u want that not in hardmode? killing everything on arah p1 or p4 wooow saw once a guy on lfg who wanted to do that i told him wispher me after u done that i never got a wishper.

Stacking is a tactic i used stacking in wow a lot. What the bosses need is moments where u must stack and moments where stacking kills u.

varietion is the keyword.

more health yes can be good sometimes

i would add extra attcks from the boss or extra mobs maybe the need to split up ur team that 2 people get a special assignment.

a Hardmode could have a timelimit to succeed

hardmode could be called solo mode, its to bad that u solo lupicus and u have nothing to prove it .

back to lupicus he in fact has a hardmode if u let him eat all the grups

summary

a real hardmode dont need limitations like no skipping stacking adson

what it need is more variotions and extra attack extra mobs around the boss and a timelimit before the boss enraged.

going to the dungeon at its level is hard mode,
ever tried to run AC1 on level 35?
ever tried to run SE on levl 65?
caucedus manor on level 45?

the dungeon design in the game is severely lacking.
it is hard to impossible to do on its designed level,
and ridiculously easy to run as a exotic geared 80 level group.

pupi.2465:

stacking… this!!!! if there is a thing that annoys me the most, is the stacking “strategy” just to kill a boss “ezly”…

The Fun factor in fightes like these is lost…

what about bosses you have to fight by stacking or you die

Lalangamena.3694:

going to the dungeon at its level is hard mode,
ever tried to run AC1 on level 35?
ever tried to run SE on levl 65?
caucedus manor on level 45?

the dungeon design in the game is severely lacking.
it is hard to impossible to do on its designed level,
and ridiculously easy to run as a exotic geared 80 level group.

This.

for one the stacking tactic is instant fail on ac spider XD

I’m a bad player, I don’t want to dodge and I don’t like following meta, so I run full Cleric Necromancer with completely random trait placement.
I deserve everything as much as the ones doing harder content. If I would to get sub par rewards I’d complain and ask for nerfs.

sarcasm for those who can’t detect it

Why do people complain about a tactic they don’t have to use?

No one’s stopping you from taking 2 hours in a dungeon if you want to.

Nick.6972:

I’m a bad player, I don’t want to dodge and I don’t like following meta, so I run full Cleric Necromancer with completely random trait placement.
I deserve everything as much as the ones doing harder content. If I would to get sub par rewards I’d complain and ask for nerfs.

sarcasm for those who can’t detect it

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRAQFAWjk00SbNNG1wfbihBR6VpyMdtg/iKAA-T1RDABGqEcm9HuU9nsU+BwDAQiLAge6ACAgA8bfDAO6RP6RP6R7oH9oH9oHtUAOtMC-w
Thats the “noone dies”-Build

Lalangamena.3694:

going to the dungeon at its level is hard mode,
ever tried to run AC1 on level 35?
ever tried to run SE on levl 65?
caucedus manor on level 45?

the dungeon design in the game is severely lacking.
it is hard to impossible to do on its designed level,
and ridiculously easy to run as a exotic geared 80 level group.

I agree with you, I play since release and I was one of the first people to try dungeons (and we still had no stacking strategy), it is still harder to make it with low level chars.
The lack of difficulty on dungeons comes from the scale down system. It should be more intelligent than it is.

Another fact that suggets Scale down is the problem is: Higher level dungeons are harder, just compare AC to Honor of The Waves. And they were designed to have the same difficulty.

Punch.3507:

Unlock requirement: a large amount of that dungeon’s tokens.

I’d say Dungeon Master should be the unlock requirement in replacement / in addition to this.

Punch.3507:

Changes:
- Improved AI
- More enemy health
- Enemies hit harder (making skipping difficult/impossible)
- Maybe dungeon specific debuffs or quirks?

- This doesn’t need to be carried over to just Hard Mode. This should also be implemented into the regular dungeons as well.
- Disagree. More health =/= more difficulty outside of more chance to mess up.
- Disagree. Rather than making enemies hit harder:

• create pre-defined groups that work together (using combo fields ect). Randomise these groups every new dungeon instance (for example, the first trash group might have Warrior, Ranger and Ele skills. Next dungeon run it might be Guardian, Thief and Necro).
• remove leashing. I sure as heck wouldn’t stop chasing someone if they broke into my house simply because they went upstairs.
• Creating groups that roam and cross-over other groups. This would encourage players to be aware of their surroundings.
  - This could be interesting. CoF could have increased Burning Damage and Duration, Arah could have constant heath degen and HotW could have decreased movement speed and endurance regen.

Punch.3507:

- Emphasis on coordinated team play (eliminating stacking)
- I hate that stacking kills the designed dungeon mechanics

I don’t think there’s anything inherently wrong with stacking as a mechanic. It’s when stacking can trivialise and negate the mechanics of pretty much every dungeon.

In terms of designing mechanics (and this isn’t limited to just dungeons but should apply to the entire game), I feel that there should be a mechanic for every tool the player has.

For example, players have access to stacking, so there should be a mechanic where stacking helps the fight go easier (for example, a skill that deals reduced damage the more people it hits). At the same time, there should be a mechanic that punishes constant stacking (for example, a skill that destroys the part of the platform that the players are stacking on if they stack for more than, say, 5 seconds).

Ultimately, this is the whole point of horizontal progression in the form of skills and traits; expanding options. If the content doesn’t capitalise on this, then horizontal progression in this form is meaningless.

Punch.3507:

- Others?

- Add a variety of tactics that are implemented based on statistics. Make each dungeon run a different experience.

For example:

• if players are running past mobs (tracked by amount of trash killed), give groups of mobs tools to CC players (stun, cripple, immobilise, Ring / Line of Warding ect).
• if that dungeon is mostly being run with by players just dealing damage and stacking (tracked by damage dealt and frequency boons are applied), replace mechanics on the boss that is mostly useless (say, condi-removal) with others (grants protection / inflicts weakness + confusion / detonates combo fields / strips boons ect).

Punch.3507:

Rewards:

- More gold and tokens for completing
- Achievements (of course)
- Others?
- Maybe RNG drops for very rare weapons (or Black Lion Tickets?)

- Unique animations for skills. For example, a boss might allow players to unlock an alternate skin for Stoning (Staff Ele Earth 1) called Ebon Hawk, which fires out a stone hawk instead of a rock.
- Completing all hard-mode dungeons unlocks a vendor that sells Ascended gear. This person will take either x amount of tokens from all dungeons (equivalent to one run of HM) or y amount of tokens from a single dungeon (equivalent to 8 runs of HM). Give bosses a chance to drop Ascended gear.

Lalangamena.3694:

going to the dungeon at its level is hard mode,
ever tried to run AC1 on level 35?
ever tried to run SE on levl 65?
caucedus manor on level 45?

the dungeon design in the game is severely lacking.
it is hard to impossible to do on its designed level,
and ridiculously easy to run as a exotic geared 80 level group.

this

Hard mode tokens with the possibility to trade them in for hard mode dungeon skins.

Think about normal armor and elite armor skins from GW1.
You can wear the normal dungeon armor or do the HM dungeons and get the “elite” variant that take a lot of work to get and show off.

Weren’t dungeons’ explorable paths intended to be the “hard mode content” of this game in the first place?

If anything, the suggested changes should apply to current paths, not to “HM versions”. Especially because there’s already way too many paths, spreading the community too thin. I’d prefer quality over quantity.

Good job, OP. “Improved AI” as the single good suggestion and otherwise just nonsense, that’s an achievement for itself.

Lalangamena.3694:

going to the dungeon at its level is hard mode,
ever tried to run AC1 on level 35?
ever tried to run SE on levl 65?
caucedus manor on level 45?

the dungeon design in the game is severely lacking.
it is hard to impossible to do on its designed level,
and ridiculously easy to run as a exotic geared 80 level group.

Did CM@45- ezpz- Was Guard + guildmate was guardian too. See we can read. So when Our skills say relect/blind/absorb projectiles we slotted those.
SE @65- see CM lol conditions
ACp1- @launch we spent maybe 5hrs in there.

If u want a “Hard Mode” just dont stack

Harper.4173:

Hard mode tokens with the possibility to trade them in for hard mode dungeon skins.

Think about normal armor and elite armor skins from GW1.
You can wear the normal dungeon armor or do the HM dungeons and get the “elite” variant that take a lot of work to get and show off.

They have already a hard time to release a skin unrelated to gemstore. Good luck !

Miku Lawrence.6329:

Harper.4173:

Hard mode tokens with the possibility to trade them in for hard mode dungeon skins.

Think about normal armor and elite armor skins from GW1.
You can wear the normal dungeon armor or do the HM dungeons and get the “elite” variant that take a lot of work to get and show off.

They have already a hard time to release a skin unrelated to gemstore. Good luck !

This looks like the sad truth of GW2. Armor skins were asked to do too many things. Using the same things you want to sell in the game store as endgame rewards proved to be too much. Why spend art resources to keep folks who want prestige looks for game-play happy when more people will use them if you sell them – and you make money?

I’m at the point where I want new cool heavy armor so much I wouldn’t care if it’s from the gem store.
Just stop giving us poorly designed heavy sets.

Hard mode:

1. Damage, enemy skills and health settings reset to the values at launch;

2. Mobs don’t run into you so stacking in corners is not possible;

3. Scale difficulty with character levels.

I saw someone suggest a great idea in another thread to increase dungeon difficulty:

3-man or 4-man the dungeon! I think it’s a splendid idea! Easier to find a full group, with good members. Your impact becomes greater, etc.

Colin said they would just make explorable paths harder in the future instead of splitting the community up even more by adding another mode like hard mode.

Some of the posts here just mention making the enemies hit harder and giving them more health. Thats exactly what high level fotm are and its just a lazy way of increasing the difficulty. Putting more mechanics into a boss is a better way of making it difficult. Adding more phases, etc. Gambits are also another way in which I think Anet is just going lazy in design.

One thing that would make dungeons obviously more difficult is if scaling was done correctly. Supposedly people are scaled down in dungeons but this is partially true. Its obvious that there is a huge difference in damage between an uplevel going into ac explore at lvl 35 with full greens, compared to a level 80 going in with full ascended. It shouldn’t be that way.

Dungeons at launch felt so difficult because the parties you’d find for dungeons were around the exact level you’d need to be. So finding a group for ac path 1 usually meant being in a full group of lvl 35-40’s. Even if stacking was common back then, it still would have been very difficult like it is now. Trying to stack in a dungeon with uplevels like on the spider queen could get you killed because you wouldn’t have enough damage to kill it in time. If they really want to make all dungeons more difficult without going back to revamp mechanics etc, just scale it better. Post-patch already showed crit damage scales crazy at lower levels.

I really like this idea. Guild wars 1 had a hard mode implemented latter on. A new dungeon set of armor for accomplishing hard mode would be cool. Kinda like the 15k armor in gw1. My only concern would be the more options you have in a dungeon it spreads your player base. Meaning if people are doing hard mode normal mode suffers and vise versa.

OP here.

To answer everyone who is saying “just don’t stack,” it’s nearly impossible to find a group that won’t kick you unless you stack. It’s stack or gtfo.

@punch

Create group " No corner stacking" enter instance
= no kick

If someone stacks kick them yourself.

Its more like “I” refuse to lead and am upset because people wont do what I want them to do.

Phadde.7362:

I saw someone suggest a great idea in another thread to increase dungeon difficulty:

3-man or 4-man the dungeon! I think it’s a splendid idea! Easier to find a full group, with good members. Your impact becomes greater, etc.

You’re like a year late with this suggestion.

Punch.3507:

OP here.

To answer everyone who is saying “just don’t stack,” it’s nearly impossible to find a group that won’t kick you unless you stack. It’s stack or gtfo.

Punch.3507:

OP here.

To answer everyone who is saying “just don’t stack,” it’s nearly impossible to find a group that won’t kick you unless you stack. It’s stack or gtfo.

This is true. Simply creating a group with the description “No Stacking” or something similar very rarely does the trick. I’ve been trying this for some time, but it pretty much either ends up in people continuously leaving or just simply ignore what was said previously and proceed to play as they’re so used to.

Phadde.7362:

Punch.3507:

OP here.

To answer everyone who is saying “just don’t stack,” it’s nearly impossible to find a group that won’t kick you unless you stack. It’s stack or gtfo.

This is true. Simply creating a group with the description “No Stacking” or something similar very rarely does the trick. I’ve been trying this for some time, but it pretty much either ends up in people continuously leaving or just simply ignore what was said previously and proceed to play as they’re so used to.

Start the instance yourself and KICK THEM.

It’s so easy.

I say “lfg Only pink dyes”. I kick anyone who will not comply. It’s so easy.

dutchiez.7502:

Phadde.7362:

I saw someone suggest a great idea in another thread to increase dungeon difficulty:

3-man or 4-man the dungeon! I think it’s a splendid idea! Easier to find a full group, with good members. Your impact becomes greater, etc.

You’re like a year late with this suggestion.

I haven’t seen this specific one until recently. None the less, adding these “modifiers” to increase difficulty and rewards is what I currently think is the best thing for PvE atm. It will do a lot, and probably the vast majority of the assets required are already in game (our current dungeons)

Phadde.7362:

dutchiez.7502:

Phadde.7362:

I saw someone suggest a great idea in another thread to increase dungeon difficulty:

3-man or 4-man the dungeon! I think it’s a splendid idea! Easier to find a full group, with good members. Your impact becomes greater, etc.

You’re like a year late with this suggestion.

I haven’t seen this specific one until recently. None the less, adding these “modifiers” to increase difficulty and rewards is what I currently think is the best thing for PvE atm. It will do a lot, and probably the vast majority of the assets required are already in game (our current dungeons)

Every dungeon path in the game has been soloed or two-manned (except for the ones where it isn’t possible, and some story modes maybe).

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Start the instance yourself and KICK THEM.

It’s so easy.

I say “lfg Only pink dyes”. I kick anyone who will not comply. It’s so easy.

I’m going to attempt to be dead-on brutal.

IndigoSundown.5419:

Punch.3507:

- Emphasis on coordinated team play (eliminating stacking)

Disconnect, here. If you’re talking against glitching at walls, say so. If you’re talking about mechanics (like Oozes in TA-AP), say so. Otherwise, stacking is the only meaningful coordinated team play available, because all team-play mechanics (buffs, defensive procs, combo fields) occur at short range. The antithesis to stacking is uncoordinated team play with everyone doing their own thing.

I think the overall intent was not to have a fully static stacked fight, but to have people grouping at key times and having fairly positional combat. Never really seen it happen though.

Phadde.7362:

I saw someone suggest a great idea in another thread to increase dungeon difficulty:

3-man or 4-man the dungeon! I think it’s a splendid idea! Easier to find a full group, with good members. Your impact becomes greater, etc.

Thats nice but the point of hard mode is harder challenge for better reward.

Seerstrange.4723:

Phadde.7362:

I saw someone suggest a great idea in another thread to increase dungeon difficulty:

3-man or 4-man the dungeon! I think it’s a splendid idea! Easier to find a full group, with good members. Your impact becomes greater, etc.

Thats nice but the point of hard mode is harder challenge for better reward.

A Hard mode that reduces the party size for better rewards was what I was suggesting.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

I say “lfg Only pink dyes”. I kick anyone who will not comply. It’s so easy.

You should make an lfg like that on EU. My human mesmer is dying to get into a group that appreciates her pink outfits .

Phadde.7362:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Start the instance yourself and KICK THEM.

It’s so easy.

I say “lfg Only pink dyes”. I kick anyone who will not comply. It’s so easy.

I’m going to attempt to be dead-on brutal.

Brutality is king! =)
Did some of my most enjoyable AC runs. Though, the group members where rather new to the game, except for one person, who I (perhaps as a result) had to kick.
I’m going to try Arah as well to see if it works with experienced people.

Phadde.7362:

Phadde.7362:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Start the instance yourself and KICK THEM.

It’s so easy.

I say “lfg Only pink dyes”. I kick anyone who will not comply. It’s so easy.

I’m going to attempt to be dead-on brutal.

Brutality is king! =)
Did some of my most enjoyable AC runs. Though, the group members where rather new to the game, except for one person, who I (perhaps as a result) had to kick.
I’m going to try Arah as well to see if it works with experienced people.

Arah may be harder to do, just because if you’re doing “anti skip” you have to research which mobs are infinite spawns and which will be gone gone. Also Lupicus is far more dangerous, long, and a noob killer at range, and you really need to get pugs to dodge grubs.

Anyway, Phadde, I hope you now realize that kicking people who don’t want to play your way is not only legitimate, but absolutely the best way to go. Whether you’re looking for anti skip stack or meta speed runs, there’s absolutely no reason for you to tolerate players who will not conform to your guidelines.

Punch.3507:

- I hate that stacking kills the designed dungeon mechanics
- Others?

Which mechanics? xD

Most bosses have only 1-2attacks, usually all can hit melees (stacking players) and 0-1 can hit ranged guys.

Before u can fix stacking. U should make real encounters.

And that requires the devs and almost all of the stacking/skipping/whatever whiners to actually understand the game, which appears to be a very difficult task.

CptAurellian.9537:

And that requires the devs and almost all of the stacking/skipping/whatever whiners to actually understand the game, which appears to be a very difficult task.

With stacking, it is. Without the possibility to stack, people usually learn rather fast =)

The newbies I ran AC with last night actually learned to dodge Kholer flawlessly after the first wipe.

Phadde.7362:

CptAurellian.9537:

And that requires the devs and almost all of the stacking/skipping/whatever whiners to actually understand the game, which appears to be a very difficult task.

With stacking, it is. Without the possibility to stack, people usually learn rather fast =)

The newbies I ran AC with last night actually learned to dodge Kholer flawlessly after the first wipe.

He is saying that people who complain that stacking removes game mechanics should learn how the game/stacking works, not people who don’t know boss tells or are new to the game in general.

O.o

/15chars