Guild Wars 2

I recently joined a group titled “exp metazerk” without class requirements as an engineer. 2 People start flaming about my class as soon as i joined.

Most Lfg’s are just searching for these 4 classes. I understand ranger and necro do not bring as much dps or group buffs than other classes, but mesmer and engi?
Engi can bring everything, might, vulnerability, very high dps and even stealth. Could easily replace ele or thief. Even metabattle lists them as alternative for higher dps to a second ele.
Mesmer can replace any guard with his reflects, null field, portal and time warp. Why are these still unpopular?

UBcktieDL.5318:

Could easily replace ele or thief. Even metabattle lists them as alternative for higher dps to a second ele.

Not really, definitely can’t replace an ele in terms of DPS and utility. What you could argue for is replacing thief, but the places where you really want thief are:

• Urban (stealth skips, engineer doesn’t have enough without waiting for recharge)
• Dredge (stealth speedrun strategy with traited SR)
• Mai Trin (permastealth)
• Jade Maw (SR for dark field)

Engineer can’t exactly replace it in any of those. And thief has faster Defiance stripping. I enjoy playing with a good engineer, but it’s not on par with thief, unless you don’t get any of those 4 fractals.

UBcktieDL.5318:

Mesmer can replace any guard with his reflects, null field, portal and time warp. Why are these still unpopular?

In fractals: Aegis. It lets eles channel their Meteor Shower and Ice Storm without having to interrupt with dodging. Usual Aegis value is anywhere between blocking a 6-14k hit and CC/conditions. Mesmer can’t top that convenience. And there are relatively few good portal spots in fractals to abuse.

Feel My Wrath is also superior to Time Warp in most cases. In one Time Warp CD you can use Feel My Wrath 8 times. That’s 40s quickness and 1min20s fury vs. 10s quickness & 10s slow. And long quickness isn’t as beneficial to ele DPS as a shorter one every 30s, since it only greatly boosts your DPS with Meteor Shower and Ice Storm, your Lava Fonts have static CD. Slow has very varying value, on some bosses it can be downright detrimental (since it changes dodge timings) and at some it’s pretty useful, but on average it isn’t worth 30s less quickness in fractals.

All this being said, if you joined my LFG party instead of a thief and I knew you were running the proper PvE build, I really wouldn’t care enough to bother replacing you – it’s close enough for a pug party.

Unfortunately, this seems to have developed into the newest trend on the lfg. Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for smooth runs, but excluding half the classes – perfectly viable ones amongst them – because some wiki says so is taking it a step too far for PUG’s in my opinion.

Personally, I can only see this as the inexperience (incompetence?) of the players listing such requirements. Reminds me a bit of the DoA ursan days back in GW1.

Can only hope that the trend will pass and stick to guildies/friends meantime.

Satenia.9025:

Unfortunately, this seems to have developed into the newest trend on the lfg. Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for smooth runs, but excluding half the classes – perfectly viable ones amongst them – because some wiki says so is taking it a step too far for PUG’s in my opinion.

Personally, I can only see this as the inexperience (incompetence?) of the players listing such requirements. Reminds me a bit of the DoA ursan days back in GW1.

Can only hope that the trend will pass and stick to guildies/friends meantime.

I don’t think it’s because a wiki says so, do you really think most of the LFG players would read something like that?

It’s because they joined a “metazerk” party at some point and had a decent run, so they want to replicate that. Granted, even with all the proper meta builds, many players just suck at playing them anyway, so it’s no guarantee.

UBcktieDL.5318:

Engi can bring everything, might, vulnerability, very high dps and even stealth. Could easily replace ele or thief. Even metabattle lists them as alternative for higher dps to a second ele.
Mesmer can replace any guard with his reflects, null field, portal and time warp. Why are these still unpopular?

This will only work in record run or in an organized group that does not mind to sacrifice some things to play with Mesmer or Engi. “exp metazerk” is exactly opposite of that.

Really? I always assumed the “metazerk lfg’s” just meant every one should be running a meta build. I figured if they wanted specific classes they would list it, hugh.

Well op, I wish I could help you by making the other classes more viable, but I can’t. What I can do is tell you easy ways to get around it.

-If you have map completion, cooking on an alt is like a free 10 lvs. Jewelery crafting is another very cheap 10 levels. From there you can do pvp dailies (on daily servers like “mad dailies” or “KOR dailies”) and you will rapidly get tomes of knowledge. About 10 mins a day for a level on your alt. If you do reward tracks like citadel of flame, you will even get a lot of the exotic zerkers weapons to gear your alts with.

-Or you could try making your own lfg.

-Or you could try to find a guild that isn’t so strict about dungeon runs.

I know they aren’t the solutions you would prefer. But they are the only ones I can offer.

Aleth.9630:

I don’t think it’s because a wiki says so, do you really think most of the LFG players would read something like that?

It’s because they joined a “metazerk” party at some point and had a decent run, so they want to replicate that. Granted, even with all the proper meta builds, many players just suck at playing them anyway, so it’s no guarantee.

Well, that’s where it started before it went viral on the lfg-system. The problem here is that the average player just copies and never questions. As a result, classes get unnecessarily excluded from dungeons.

thrag.9740:

Really? I always assumed the “metazerk lfg’s” just meant every one should be running a meta build. I figured if they wanted specific classes they would list it, hugh.

Well op, I wish I could help you by making the other classes more viable, but I can’t. What I can do is tell you easy ways to get around it.

-If you have map completion, cooking on an alt is like a free 10 lvs. Jewelery crafting is another very cheap 10 levels. From there you can do pvp dailies (on daily servers like “mad dailies” or “KOR dailies”) and you will rapidly get tomes of knowledge. About 10 mins a day for a level on your alt. If you do reward tracks like citadel of flame, you will even get a lot of the exotic zerkers weapons to gear your alts with.

-Or you could try making your own lfg.

-Or you could try to find a guild that isn’t so strict about dungeon runs.

I know they aren’t the solutions you would prefer. But they are the only ones I can offer.

i have all 8 classes on lvl 80 with zerker builds. i just don’t like to play ele every day:) if i want to play necro/engi/ranger, i simply do it. In most cases, many metazerk groups do not even clear the dungeon faster than a group with 2 necros.

If it helps, i play on EU.

Aleth.9630:

Not really, definitely can’t replace an ele in terms of DPS and utility. What you could argue for is replacing thief, but the places where you really want thief are:

• Urban (stealth skips, engineer doesn’t have enough without waiting for recharge)
• Dredge (stealth speedrun strategy with traited SR)
• Mai Trin (permastealth)
• Jade Maw (SR for dark field)

Engineer can’t exactly replace it in any of those. And thief has faster Defiance stripping. I enjoy playing with a good engineer, but it’s not on par with thief, unless you don’t get any of those 4 fractals.

I would only agree with Mai Trin and Maw part (the latter is arguably an exploit anyways).

Dredge cage can be done easily with engi (no mobs killed)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6x5DIuVU54
Same goes for Urban battleground
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLItHwWS_nY&t=400

P.S. Yes, DPS wise no class can compete with staff ele

Relog to thief if you get dredge and thief/necro if you get jade maw. You don’t even need any stealth for ascalon, running through as a group keeping up aegis/invulns is kitten. Mai trin, just as quick if people know how to move in the right place. On all the other fractals you don’t really loose anything taking an engineer over a thief. Engineer has much better aoe, better sustained vuln, more blasts and utility along with enough defiance removal, without sacrificing alot of dps to take defiance. It’s funny because pugging is much better on engineer due to a lot more utility yet they want thieves instead because they don’t realise how much they need carrying

UBcktieDL.5318:

I recently joined a group titled “exp metazerk” without class requirements as an engineer. 2 People start flaming about my class as soon as i joined.

Most Lfg’s are just searching for these 4 classes. I understand ranger and necro do not bring as much dps or group buffs than other classes, but mesmer and engi?

Really lost interest in this thread when I came to that portion….

You’re complaining that your Engie and I’m assuming Mesmer were shunned by a group. Yet, you state it’s ok for Rangers and Necromacners to be shunned…

So to rephrase what you wrote based on how I read it:

“People should not shun the classes I play but should shun class A and Class B because I don’t play them and no one seems to like them”

Aleth.9630:

In fractals: Aegis. It lets eles channel their Meteor Shower and Ice Storm without having to interrupt with dodging. Usual Aegis value is anywhere between blocking a 6-14k hit and CC/conditions. Mesmer can’t top that convenience.

There are these things called “signet”; you can do lots of funny plays with them post-patch. At melandru, in faptals, at lupi, wherever. Shud look it up. The aegis mantra is a lil shakier…
We’re getting closer to what anet wanted: guards are faceroll-bruteforce-carrypants, mesmers are bust-your-kitten -to-make-it-work-ball of awesomeness when it does.
Now, if some encounters were less anti-phantasm…

Feel my wrath is completely out of line and should be at least 45-60s cd. BUT I don’t think it’s op in pvp (?), so there will be no changes there. Ezportz.
TW should be 144. Definitely. But again ezportz.

Skady.5916:

Aleth.9630:

Not really, definitely can’t replace an ele in terms of DPS and utility. What you could argue for is replacing thief, but the places where you really want thief are:

• Urban (stealth skips, engineer doesn’t have enough without waiting for recharge)
• Dredge (stealth speedrun strategy with traited SR)
• Mai Trin (permastealth)
• Jade Maw (SR for dark field)

Engineer can’t exactly replace it in any of those. And thief has faster Defiance stripping. I enjoy playing with a good engineer, but it’s not on par with thief, unless you don’t get any of those 4 fractals.

I would only agree with Mai Trin and Maw part (the latter is arguably an exploit anyways).

Dredge cage can be done easily with engi (no mobs killed)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6x5DIuVU54
Same goes for Urban battleground
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLItHwWS_nY&t=400

P.S. Yes, DPS wise no class can compete with staff ele

• Dredge:
  It’s done using consumables, that’s already shaky ground, but do you think pug engineers know that skip? And even if they do, the rest of the party does? And even then, that they all have the consumables for it? All in an LFG party? That just won’t happen. Don’t forget, we’re talking about accepting random engineers into pugs.
  That run still also takes half the time with thief, is a lot more failsafe since you instantly open 2nd gate with a teleport and do Haste+SR on console.

• Ascalon:
  Showing them “skipping” when they get the shortest path which requires a single blast proves nothing. If they had to go on a long road, which is the case ~80% of the time, they would have to sit around waiting for Smoke Bomb to recharge, or run through without stealth, which is messy in pug parties as hell.

Aleth.9630:

Skady.5916:

Aleth.9630:

Not really, definitely can’t replace an ele in terms of DPS and utility. What you could argue for is replacing thief, but the places where you really want thief are:

• Urban (stealth skips, engineer doesn’t have enough without waiting for recharge)
• Dredge (stealth speedrun strategy with traited SR)
• Mai Trin (permastealth)
• Jade Maw (SR for dark field)

Engineer can’t exactly replace it in any of those. And thief has faster Defiance stripping. I enjoy playing with a good engineer, but it’s not on par with thief, unless you don’t get any of those 4 fractals.

I would only agree with Mai Trin and Maw part (the latter is arguably an exploit anyways).

Dredge cage can be done easily with engi (no mobs killed)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6x5DIuVU54
Same goes for Urban battleground
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLItHwWS_nY&t=400

P.S. Yes, DPS wise no class can compete with staff ele

• Dredge:
  It’s done using consumables, that’s already shaky ground, but do you think pug engineers know that skip? And even if they do, the rest of the party does? And even then, that they all have the consumables for it? All in an LFG party? That just won’t happen. Don’t forget, we’re talking about accepting random engineers into pugs.
  That run still also takes half the time with thief, is a lot more failsafe since you instantly open 2nd gate with a teleport and do Haste+SR on console.

• Ascalon:
  Showing them “skipping” when they get the shortest path which requires a single blast proves nothing. If they had to go on a long road, which is the case ~80% of the time, they would have to sit around waiting for Smoke Bomb to recharge, or run through without stealth, which is messy in pug parties as hell.

If you trait short fuse and the stealth elixr also you don’t loose more than 10 seconds compared to a thief so it hardly matters

Aleth.9630:

• Dredge:
  It’s done using consumables, that’s already shaky ground, but do you think pug engineers know that skip? And even if they do, the rest of the party does? And even then, that they all have the consumables for it? All in an LFG party? That just won’t happen. Don’t forget, we’re talking about accepting random engineers into pugs.
  That run still also takes half the time with thief, is a lot more failsafe since you instantly open 2nd gate with a teleport and do Haste+SR on console.

• Ascalon:
  Showing them “skipping” when they get the shortest path which requires a single blast proves nothing. If they had to go on a long road, which is the case ~80% of the time, they would have to sit around waiting for Smoke Bomb to recharge, or run through without stealth, which is messy in pug parties as hell.

Those videos are just examples, I’m too lazy to look for more. All paths in Urban fractal can be done with engi – you just have to stand in safe spotd for 3-5 sec to wait for bomb CD.

Basically your argument comes down to “thief is more straight forward” “pugs used to thief skips” thats why they don’t mess up. It all is just a matter of practice and getting used to

Two years ago average pug was confident that the best team comp for a dungeon is 1 mesmer and 4 warriors and they refused to try anything else. Trying new things is always fun trust me

Wolfey.3407:

UBcktieDL.5318:

I recently joined a group titled “exp metazerk” without class requirements as an engineer. 2 People start flaming about my class as soon as i joined.

Most Lfg’s are just searching for these 4 classes. I understand ranger and necro do not bring as much dps or group buffs than other classes, but mesmer and engi?

Really lost interest in this thread when I came to that portion….

You’re complaining that your Engie and I’m assuming Mesmer were shunned by a group. Yet, you state it’s ok for Rangers and Necromacners to be shunned…

So to rephrase what you wrote based on how I read it:

“People should not shun the classes I play but should shun class A and Class B because I don’t play them and no one seems to like them”

+rep

Wolfey.3407:

UBcktieDL.5318:

I recently joined a group titled “exp metazerk” without class requirements as an engineer. 2 People start flaming about my class as soon as i joined.

Most Lfg’s are just searching for these 4 classes. I understand ranger and necro do not bring as much dps or group buffs than other classes, but mesmer and engi?

“People should not shun the classes I play but should shun class A and Class B because I don’t play them and no one seems to like them”

Let me rephrase the original statement for you. "I understand people shunning slightly less optimal classes based on the general skill level by players using that class as well as less opportunities to support the group. However I don’t understand why a just as optimal class is shunned as well.

As has been pointed out, a mesmer can replace a guardian with ease, as an engi can replace a thief. The difference being at most, waiting a couple seconds to stealth, or better use of aggro and positioning to make up for no aegis. So if the classes are barely affecting the run time, and engineer provides more group support than a thief for groups that have weaker mechanic knowledge, why are those classes shunned?

As a side note, mesmer can provide group invulnerability which blocks all incoming attacks during a period, instead of one, so it can be considered to have better group defense in some situations.

Satenia.9025:

Unfortunately, this seems to have developed into the newest trend on the lfg. Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for smooth runs, but excluding half the classes – perfectly viable ones amongst them – because some wiki says so is taking it a step too far for PUG’s in my opinion.

Personally, I can only see this as the inexperience (incompetence?) of the players listing such requirements. Reminds me a bit of the DoA ursan days back in GW1.

Can only hope that the trend will pass and stick to guildies/friends meantime.

It’s simply the next step in the evolution of people’s thinking about the ‘right’ way to play. I predicted such a thing would start happening. As soon as the community starts excluding the small things for optimal performance, it just gets worse from there because they realize there is no reason to limit their exclusion to just a build, it extends to classes to. … to these people, it makes sense to spend minutes upfront on team building to shave seconds off the run itself.

Because “muh speedruns” in a game with 0 challenge in it’s pve content. How people can develop elitism in such a game is mind-boggling. If the group doesn’t clear the path 2 minutes faster because it’s missing a certain class, someone from that group will get a white hair each time.

The so-called “elitism” is just a nice word for prejudices against certain classes that are built on what idiots say and which are gladly taken over by other idiots who’d like to look competent.
A case in point: “I understand ranger and necro do not bring as much dps or group buffs than other classes”.
What i understand is that this guy doesn’t know anything about ranger. He’s just repeating what he hears from other idiots. Been playing fractals as ranger since they were introduced. I know nothing about necro, so I dont have an opinion on necro. Unfortunately, most people just copy opinions without even thinking.
I accept every class in fractals as long as the player knows what he is doing. It’s a simple rule, boys and girls: it’s never the class, it’s always the player.

That doesn’t seem realistic to me. You think every class can do every piece of content identically well? And anyone who points out that classes are not balanced is an idiot?

For example, rangers have a tougher time doing stealth skips because of their pet. Sure you can stow it, but take a single tick of damage and then its exposed, keeping you in combat longer,maybe drawing aoe agroe. One example would be path 2 of arah, the defiler’s poison fields.

I think ignoring certain class weakness is bad for the game, and gives anet incorrect data. I think an honest discussion about how certain classes are demonstrably weaker at certain content is better, and will lead to the balance we need.

EDIT I am sorry, passive pets can not get hit by aoes/draw agro as far as I can tell. I quicly tested it in arah via harpy feathers, and Zoef is correct in the post below.

Im not talking about balance. Im talking about how easily people accept opinions without giving them any further thought. Criticize me for what i say; not for what i dont say.
It’s the oldest trick in the world. U ignore what i really say; instead u put words in my mouth that i never said and u blame me for them lol. Get real, pal.
Your example shows how much u know about ranger. Stowing pet doesnt work if u take a tick of damage, as u point out. However, as long as u have pet on inactive, it wont draw aggro. Only the ranger can draw aggro in that case. Get the facts right. That’s my whole point. And try to make a distinction between opinions that are presented as facts and facts. Of course, that implies that u really know what u are talking about.

Engineers have the potential to be great but any time I remember pugging and seeing one join they were camping flamethrower, making them literally useless.

In all honesty though, the ‘meta zerk’ composition is safe, fast and pretty universal in terms of usability. It’s very rare to find a good engineer in pugs for example, thief is just way easier and still has access to stealth. Rangers are usually bear bow kittens, and pugs are too stupid to know portal mechanics. If I wanted to clear dungeons in the fastest time possible on a daily basis with pugs, I would use some sort of ‘elitist’ lfg post. But I don’t get why people whine about LFG’s so much when there is so many PVE guilds out there right now, there really isn’t an excuse not to have a group of people to play with on a daily basis you enjoy playing with.

“Metazerk” lfgs usually mean guardian, warrior, elementalist, thief. They don’t want anything else because they are short sighted. Bringing the right class is just half of the whole thing, the other half being that the person playing that class actually does know what their role is and act accordingly.

While it’s true that the meta is optimal (otherwise it would not be called meta), i’d rather have an engineer or necro who knows what the strengths of their class is and plays it brilliantly than a meta class player who does not do their job.

serenke.4806:

While it’s true that the meta is optimal (otherwise it would not be called meta), i’d rather have an engineer or necro who knows what the strengths of their class is and plays it brilliantly than a meta class player who does not do their job.

Going to be pedantic here but the word you’re looking for is not optimal… the correct word is easy.

It’s not always the case that a thief is worth taking in a path, and rarely is guardian ever optimal just easier to play with for more casual runs. Even in casual runs, it is incorrect to ever say that this pug mentality of “metazerk” is optimal.

It actually does make me frown a little to see how many people on this game actually think guardian is necessary for a run to be smooth. Not saying this is you, just in general.

I have seen plenty of lfg posts which stated engie as one of the wanted classes so I can’t really say have seen what you describe.

I’m not a fan of the whole “metazerk speedrun min 8k Ap” lfg entries either. Though I mainly play Ele so I don’t have that much of a probem with it.

The only time I notice a significant slower clear time of dungeons is, whenn there’s a lack of might stacking or stacking in general… guys standing 1000y away celebrating, that they’re surviving but completly negelcting the point, that they are getting zero might stacks and therefore are doing less dmg.

I think the shunning of necros specifically and ranger to an degree comes partly from prejudice. BearBows ruined the reputation of the ranger class. Necro.. i don’t reallyknow why they are getting shunned so much… maybe because often times they are running condi builds or because they are not bringing the grp support everyone expects to have… or because the holy metabattle doesn’t declare them part of the meta ^^

I don’ really care what classes are in my grp as long as the players are decent. Maybe not too many of one class. but thats really it.. as long as there’s enough might + vuln i don’t really care who provides it :o)

Purple Miku.7032:

serenke.4806:

While it’s true that the meta is optimal (otherwise it would not be called meta), i’d rather have an engineer or necro who knows what the strengths of their class is and plays it brilliantly than a meta class player who does not do their job.

Going to be pedantic here but the word you’re looking for is not optimal… the correct word is easy.

It’s not always the case that a thief is worth taking in a path, and rarely is guardian ever optimal just easier to play with for more casual runs. Even in casual runs, it is incorrect to ever say that this pug mentality of “metazerk” is optimal.

It actually does make me frown a little to see how many people on this game actually think guardian is necessary for a run to be smooth. Not saying this is you, just in general.

True, thanks for the correction. I indeed meant more easy. And i also agree with not always needing a guardian for getting things done.

Zoef.2761:

Im not talking about balance. Im talking about how easily people accept opinions without giving them any further thought. Criticize me for what i say; not for what i dont say.
It’s the oldest trick in the world. U ignore what i really say; instead u put words in my mouth that i never said and u blame me for them lol. Get real, pal.
Your example shows how much u know about ranger. Stowing pet doesnt work if u take a tick of damage, as u point out. However, as long as u have pet on inactive, it wont draw aggro. Only the ranger can draw aggro in that case. Get the facts right. That’s my whole point. And try to make a distinction between opinions that are presented as facts and facts. Of course, that implies that u really know what u are talking about.

And I’m saying that just because someone thinks a certain class is inappropriate for a certain encounter, doesn’t mean they are an idiot. You seem pretty sure that if someone says anything about any class, they are an idiot.

Zoef.2761:

The so-called “elitism” is just a nice word for prejudices against certain classes that are built on what idiots say and which are gladly taken over by other idiots who’d like to look competent.

Am I misinterpreting this quote? Because it seems like anyone who criticizes certain classes is an idiot according to you. Which to me implies that you believe all classes are perfectly balanced, which is why I brought up balance. There are definitely idiots who talk crap and don’t know what it means, but there is also a source for it all, inherent class imbalance in different encounters. To me, your statement was making light of this issue.

You were 100% correct about the agro thing, and I edited my post. However, there are valid criticisms of pretty much every class in certain content. I don’t think its fair to say, everyone with these criticisms is an idiot.

Shiren.9532:

Phalanx Strength singlehandedly provides 25 stacks of party-wide Might – mostly from auto-attacks.

I went to pvp, and tested on undestructible golumns. So this doesn’t have the benefit of fried dumplings. But I had standard dps sigils + strength runes. But getting 25 stacks seems pretty rare on a single target,and yes I was using signet precision stacks/banner of disc. If I gave up signet of fury and replaced it with fgj I probably could get up to the full 25 at least for the group. But that’s a 20% personal dps loss on your initial burst (which happens multiple times on most fractal bosses). You could take “to the limit” over healing signet, but then you lose 5 stacks. Now, obviously ps war gets to 25 very easily on trash mobs, where you can cleave. But who really cares about the trash mobs. We literally perma blind them and don’t even dodge. In addition, on bosses which require frequent dodging like diviner, I don’t think you will really see that 25 stacks very frequently, certainly won’t see it party wide (limited range), except maybe on a deep freeze burn.

not 100% – then you wouldn’t put your entire party into combat if you forget to use a tonic at the orrian eyes in arah, kittening up the stealth tactic, passive or not (you can always run through the center, but you got me). Or you kitten up simin, because sometimes sparks will walk towards your pet even if you’re ooc – quite a curious phenomenon.
Or you kitten up in ta, since the blossoms do damage even if your pet is in passive – but this is unrelated to drawing aggro. Still, I think it’s worth mentioning.
The ranger has problems. Lots of problems, and anet must fix them. I don’t give a kitten if anyone thinks they’re bad, or terrible, or the best class on earth – they have problems. I want people to keep saying rangers are awful so I can keep pointing out why they aren’t – ok, but they have so many frustrating issues and I want to be reminded of those too (as if I could forget, HAH!).

And yes, pugs sometimes take whatever bad experience they have and twist it around their heads (“I had a few bad rangers, all rangers I ever met were bad/all rangers are bad period”), or take anecdotal data at face value (“I heard rangers are bad, /kick”) and, put simply, don’t use their heads. BUT, it’s on anet to gather the valuable data given by the few players who know what they’re talking about… and act on it. Of course I wonder: “Why would they care?” /shrug
If anet did the balancing job better, slowly – but surely – pugs would adapt and most reasonable people would start seeing rangers in a less negative light… with at least a 1 year delay over the community, but I’m am 100% positive that it’s not a matter of people being stupid (not entirely…). It’s anet not fixing problems that have been there for 3 years. I see much less discrimination now that when the game started and rangers were so clunky I deleted my norn out of frustration.
If the few decent players set the example and anet wakes the kitten up, I see an opening.
…
… not if they keep nerfing anything slightly better than “acceptable” in pvp cus ezportz, of course <.< looks like they’re terrified of rangers magically becoming “op” in hot join?

P.S. TA archers and Brie. Never forget, never forgive.

thrag.9740:

Zoef.2761:

Im not talking about balance. Im talking about how easily people accept opinions without giving them any further thought. Criticize me for what i say; not for what i dont say.
It’s the oldest trick in the world. U ignore what i really say; instead u put words in my mouth that i never said and u blame me for them lol. Get real, pal.
Your example shows how much u know about ranger. Stowing pet doesnt work if u take a tick of damage, as u point out. However, as long as u have pet on inactive, it wont draw aggro. Only the ranger can draw aggro in that case. Get the facts right. That’s my whole point. And try to make a distinction between opinions that are presented as facts and facts. Of course, that implies that u really know what u are talking about.

And I’m saying that just because someone thinks a certain class is inappropriate for a certain encounter, doesn’t mean they are an idiot. You seem pretty sure that if someone says anything about any class, they are an idiot.

Zoef.2761:

The so-called “elitism” is just a nice word for prejudices against certain classes that are built on what idiots say and which are gladly taken over by other idiots who’d like to look competent.

Am I misinterpreting this quote? Because it seems like anyone who criticizes certain classes is an idiot according to you. Which to me implies that you believe all classes are perfectly balanced, which is why I brought up balance. There are definitely idiots who talk crap and don’t know what it means, but there is also a source for it all, inherent class imbalance in different encounters. To me, your statement was making light of this issue.

You were 100% correct about the agro thing, and I edited my post. However, there are valid criticisms of pretty much every class in certain content. I don’t think its fair to say, everyone with these criticisms is an idiot.

Shiren.9532:

Phalanx Strength singlehandedly provides 25 stacks of party-wide Might – mostly from auto-attacks.

I went to pvp, and tested on undestructible golumns. So this doesn’t have the benefit of fried dumplings. But I had standard dps sigils + strength runes. But getting 25 stacks seems pretty rare on a single target,and yes I was using signet precision stacks/banner of disc. If I gave up signet of fury and replaced it with fgj I probably could get up to the full 25 at least for the group. But that’s a 20% personal dps loss on your initial burst (which happens multiple times on most fractal bosses). You could take “to the limit” over healing signet, but then you lose 5 stacks. Now, obviously ps war gets to 25 very easily on trash mobs, where you can cleave. But who really cares about the trash mobs. We literally perma blind them and don’t even dodge. In addition, on bosses which require frequent dodging like diviner, I don’t think you will really see that 25 stacks very frequently, certainly won’t see it party wide (limited range), except maybe on a deep freeze burn.

PS Warrior average Might maintained over 30 seconds…

Strength + dumplings = 23
Strength + DPS Food = 18
Scholar + dumplings = 16
Scholar + DPS food = 11

Organized groups doing casual runs can get away with strength + dps food. Guilds doing record type runs in low level dungeons can get away Scholar + DPS food. Level 80 record runs you can handle scholar + dumplings. Pugs and rather casual runs you probably want strength and dumplings.

I always hated this misconception that far too many people continue to spread. PS Warrior help keeping 25 stack of might on a party, but can’t maintain that many by himself and still people keep spreading the lie. There is ways to achieve that, but you need special modification to any typical PS build.

Thanks for those numbers Nike.

I only pug, so here is my perspective. I think part of this misconception comes from cleave tripping might production on trash, which again who cares about being op on trash.

So yeah, anet has to choose what to balance around. Bosses, or trash. Or pvp lol

I think for the same reason that some players don’t like being asked to play a specific class we shouldn’t berate others for asking for specific classes. Everyone plays differently. The only aspect I take issue with is the juvenile thrashing that happens sometimes when players don’t get what they’re looking for.

I’ll play any dungeon with any player on any class. /Friend me if you’re having problems finding people to run with.

Look lets face facts:

Pug groups suck – its usually a disorganised mess (unless they are playing on voice comms).
Guild / friend groups are the way to go – if you want to go with a particular group/team comp and ensure a decent organised run.

To the original OP – find a guild or friends.
Be social develop a relationship with like minded runners and enjoy the content with them.

There will always be plenty of discrimination in a group setup (e.g. Asuran only wearing green hats or Humans wearing Red armor or All Warrior party) unless you are playing with friends where you are all like minded to try something different.

Sometimes I think you shouldn’t even be allowed to take two of the same class into a dungeon. Of course lfg would take longer and people would cry. However, I think that would clear some things up. I think this would also motivate people to play some of the less played classes in pve. Its all relative anyway. People would complain if this mechanic was added now. However, if it was added before the game game out, I don’t think people would care as much and you would see a lot more variety in dungeons today.

Note: This does not mean that all classes are balanced in pve events like dungeons. I believe Anet should work on making classes more balanced in pve and produce a no more than one class rule.

Xstein.2187:

Sometimes I think you shouldn’t even be allowed to take two of the same class into a dungeon. Of course lfg would take longer and people would cry. However, I think that would clear some things up. I think this would also motivate people to play some of the less played classes in pve. Its all relative anyway. People would complain if this mechanic was added now. However, if it was added before the game game out, I don’t think people would care as much and you would see a lot more variety in dungeons today.

Note: This does not mean that all classes are balanced in pve events like dungeons. I believe Anet should work on making classes more balanced in pve and produce a no more than one class rule.

Going from 1 war, 1 thief , 1 guard/mesmer, 2 eles to 1 war, 1 thief, 1 guard/mesmer, 1 ele, 1 engi not gonna help necro and ranger.

They could change it so that 8 people fit into a dungeon, so that we can have a necro and a ranger with us there. Granted we would still stack more eles instead

While I am a new player in gw2, I have played other mmos for years now.
Meta requirements are not a new issue nor a unique issue in gw2.
Meta are defined by the hardcore players who have the time/resources to invest in the game in order to push the limits. if you want to be a part of it, it is not bad, but it will require you to make the necessary inestion, and pick a meta class/build (and be prepared to reroll whenever a meta change!)
If you are more of a casual player (like me, now, due to real life) best thing is to find a guild/friends to run with.
Problem with PUGS usually, is that they always contain some players that are “Meta wannabe” and think that certain build/class automatically makes the player godlike, and allow for a smooth speed run like they watched in some hardcore guild channel on youtube. most of the time, those pugs wont complete a run due to someone trying to showoff, or lack of coordination or skill. in fact pug runs will take much more time to complete, or will be less enjoyable than a guild run with friends that run the less attractive classes.
Bottom line, join a guild and make friends, makes the game and time spent much much more fun

That a Mesmer can replace a Guardian is wrong, but a mesmer can easily replace an thief and do a better job in every Fractal except Ascalon, Mai Trin and Jade Maw

The problem isn’t the meta or record run. The problem is the delusion and uninformed opinion of wanna be try hard speed runner that kick anything that isn’t in meta battle even if meta battle usually lag behind or don’t talk about near optimal build that you won’t even make a difference in pug group.

otome.2673:

That a Mesmer can replace a Guardian is wrong, but a mesmer can easily replace an thief and do a better job in every Fractal except Ascalon, Mai Trin and Jade Maw

Hmm, reflects, condi cleanse, blinding, pulling mobs together, stability, boon rip, portal, stealth, quickness, party-wide evade on demand.

Nah hes right, if you push a mes into a guardians role you end up with a kittenty guardian that doesn’t use any of the mesmers potential. Might as well just use a guard. If you replace the assassin however you can actually play mesmers strengths and outperform assa/engi in some regards.

Rag.3258:

Nah hes right, if you push a mes into a guardians role you end up with a kittenty guardian that doesn’t use any of the mesmers potential. Might as well just use a guard. If you replace the assassin however you can actually play mesmers strengths and outperform assa/engi in some regards.

What is this assassin?

Rag.3258:

Nah hes right, if you push a mes into a guardians role you end up with a kittenty guardian that doesn’t use any of the mesmers potential. Might as well just use a guard. If you replace the assassin however you can actually play mesmers strengths and outperform assa/engi in some regards.

What are these mesmer potential strengths that are not listed? The amazing dps?

well having access to the strongest skill in game sure helps

Jerus.4350:

Rag.3258:

Nah hes right, if you push a mes into a guardians role you end up with a kittenty guardian that doesn’t use any of the mesmers potential. Might as well just use a guard. If you replace the assassin however you can actually play mesmers strengths and outperform assa/engi in some regards.

What is this assassin?

Thief elite spec just got leaked

serenke.4806:

otome.2673:

That a Mesmer can replace a Guardian is wrong, but a mesmer can easily replace an thief and do a better job in every Fractal except Ascalon, Mai Trin and Jade Maw

Hmm, reflects, condi cleanse, blinding, pulling mobs together, stability, boon rip, portal, stealth, quickness, party-wide evade on demand.

You dont have a Big access to Aegis. But you are right Mesmer is a Great addition to the party thats why i said you can replace Thief in fractals by a mesmer this would make the Fractals shorter if your mesmer is able to use his Portal.