Guild Wars 2

I was looking to extra my old infusion out of my back piece (a +10) just so I can upgrade it to progress further. I’m confused why the ability to salvage ascended items is available to all players, but the “Infusion Extraction Device” sold for 20s needs to be positioned on the little island only available to HoT players?

I suppose as a non-HoT player I have access to the gem store upgrade extractor. But, it seems heavily biased the new (yet generally still old fractals with just higher scaling and a re balancing of instabilities) fractals become so difficult for old players, and HoT paid players get all the nice new advantages to make life a lot easier for them to progress.

Welcome to capitalism bro.

captainteemo.6537:

I was looking to extra my old infusion out of my back piece (a +10) just so I can upgrade it to progress further. I’m confused why the ability to salvage ascended items is available to all players, but the “Infusion Extraction Device” sold for 20s needs to be positioned on the little island only available to HoT players?

I suppose as a non-HoT player I have access to the gem store upgrade extractor. But, it seems heavily biased the new (yet generally still old fractals with just higher scaling and a re balancing of instabilities) fractals become so difficult for old players, and HoT paid players get all the nice new advantages to make life a lot easier for them to progress.

seems perfectly normal… you’ve had 3 years to save $50 somewhere in the likelyhood that there’d be an expansion… a lot of people with core game now are just f2p nowadays, giving them the entire experience would sort of kill the point, if you’re not f2p you can still trade your gold to gems to get an upg extractor; or get hot once, and only pay 24s each time.

Xbon.9086:

captainteemo.6537:

I was looking to extra my old infusion out of my back piece (a +10) just so I can upgrade it to progress further. I’m confused why the ability to salvage ascended items is available to all players, but the “Infusion Extraction Device” sold for 20s needs to be positioned on the little island only available to HoT players?

I suppose as a non-HoT player I have access to the gem store upgrade extractor. But, it seems heavily biased the new (yet generally still old fractals with just higher scaling and a re balancing of instabilities) fractals become so difficult for old players, and HoT paid players get all the nice new advantages to make life a lot easier for them to progress.

seems perfectly normal… you’ve had 3 years to save $50 somewhere in the likelyhood that there’d be an expansion… a lot of people with core game now are just f2p nowadays, giving them the entire experience would sort of kill the point, if you’re not f2p you can still trade your gold to gems to get an upg extractor; or get hot once, and only pay 24s each time.

That’s the justification? Because 3 years have passed, we should have saved to pay for an expansion? Core gamers are equivalent to free to play gamers, regardless when they started or the conditions surrounding when they started? I’m more questioning the general philosophy behind this decision.

Yes, I’m aware as a core gamer I can trade gold to gems at a great rate to pay for the upgrade extractor. I suppose I’m just envious because these new gaming experiences come behind a pay wall.

New masteries, new map, for people who paid. I get it, I don’t mind and they deserve it for paying.I don’t think that the ability to continue playing a part of the game that was part of the core experience should be penalized just because of a revamp that really wasn’t new content.

Yes, those vendors are new and the extractor is new. Yes the masteries are new as well, as is the legendary back piece.

Are the fractals new? Does redistributing fractals around and instabilities and raising the ‘level’ cap of fractals count as new enough content that a ‘dirty core player that’s no better than a free to play player’ doesn’t deserve some reasonable avenue to progress just to continue playing what he paid for originally?

I don’t need the masteries to progress, unless they’re MAKING me use them to progress (hinting that if I don’t buy, I can’t play).

I’m glad everyone has all new content that they enjoy. They’ve done good things, but the this whole money grabbing approach just doesn’t sit well with everyone. It isn’t about if the item cost $1 or $100.

Maybe I was okay with my old $13.50 for a drug I needed, but to repackage it so I need to pay $750 a tablet instead for basically the same thing, most people would cry foul.

You have lost nothing, if you want to do new pay for the development of those new things so that you may use them. You’ve gotten far more than your 10-60 bucks worth of content as it is.

Your saying it was impossible for you to save 5 bucks a month? thats half a big mac meal in my country

crisisavatar.9247:

You have lost nothing, if you want to do new pay for the development of those new things so that you may use them. You’ve gotten far more than your 10-60 bucks worth of content as it is.

Are you saying these fractals are new? What does getting your value’s worth out of your purchase have to do with purchasing new content? Maybe I own a 2000 Acura and it’s been good value and served me well. I’m not committed to buying a new one if the old one still works just because it has some new features.

As a core player, I was able to play from fractals 1 to 50 (max level at the time) with friends.

Yes, the added legendary back item. I didn’t need it before, and it’s a luxuary for people who paid for the new content. That’s FINE.

They haven’t added anything substantially new to fractals. Yet by not paying for HoT, I can’t enjoy the content I used to before (1 to Max) with friends. That’s more of the issue.

Linken.6345:

Your saying it was impossible for you to save 5 bucks a month? thats half a big mac meal in my country

Yes I can buy it if I needed or wanted to. I just vote ‘no’ with my money because I don’t agree with a lot of the decisions moving forward. If people like the direction things are going then it’s fine for them to buy it. Just because I’m an older core player doesn’t mean I shouldn’t be able to voice my concerns.

captainteemo.6537:

Linken.6345:

Your saying it was impossible for you to save 5 bucks a month? thats half a big mac meal in my country

Yes I can buy it if I needed or wanted to. I just vote ‘no’ with my money because I don’t agree with a lot of the decisions moving forward. If people like the direction things are going then it’s fine for them to buy it. Just because I’m an older core player doesn’t mean I shouldn’t be able to voice my concerns.

It’s your choice not to pay then. DEAL WITH IT. Period.

captainteemo.6537:

I don’t think that the ability to continue playing a part of the game that was part of the core experience should be penalized just because of a revamp that really wasn’t new content.

Nothing is stopping you from continuing to play the existing 1-50 fractal content. Levels 51+ are HoT content, which you can technically still access, albeit with greater difficulty, but the fact that you are even able to do so seems generous to me.

As for the ascended salvage kit, the only purpose that serves is to provide mats for the Legendary pre cursor crafting which is also HoT only content, so there is no need for f2p players to have access to it.

Anet just did a quick money grab. Nothing you can do about it besides looking for a new game. It just sucks not to have expansion now.

Atlas.4509:

captainteemo.6537:

I don’t think that the ability to continue playing a part of the game that was part of the core experience should be penalized just because of a revamp that really wasn’t new content.

Nothing is stopping you from continuing to play the existing 1-50 fractal content. Levels 51+ are HoT content, which you can technically still access, albeit with greater difficulty, but the fact that you are even able to do so seems generous to me.

As for the ascended salvage kit, the only purpose that serves is to provide mats for the Legendary pre cursor crafting which is also HoT only content, so there is no need for f2p players to have access to it.

There’s nothing new about fractal 51-100 aside from the numbers. The agony ticks are higher, but it’s still the same tune. Even the instabilities are from previous instabilities, just moved around. Unless you consider more HP new content?

I was talking about ascended salvaging. I was just referring to infusion extraction to upgrade my agony resistance.

If you pay for a season’s pass at Disneyland and suddenly they told you that you can stand in the line, but you can’t ride the rides until you ‘upgrade’ your pass because they decided to let people go around twice. That seems hardly fair. I think if you’re familiar with fractal content you can see right away this is hardly ‘new’ content. I guess they’re very generous that they even allow me to log into the game since I only paid for the original.

captainteemo.6537:

I was looking to extra my old infusion out of my back piece (a +10) just so I can upgrade it to progress further. I’m confused why the ability to salvage ascended items is available to all players, but the “Infusion Extraction Device” sold for 20s needs to be positioned on the little island only available to HoT players?

I suppose as a non-HoT player I have access to the gem store upgrade extractor. But, it seems heavily biased the new (yet generally still old fractals with just higher scaling and a re balancing of instabilities) fractals become so difficult for old players, and HoT paid players get all the nice new advantages to make life a lot easier for them to progress.

Production is limited for ArenaNet when customers don’t pay, so why shouldn’t your play potential be limited when you don’t pay as well?

Welcome to life. If you want nice things, ya gotta pay for them. You have two choices: Lower your standards or increase your value to the world around you.

captainteemo.6537:

Atlas.4509:

captainteemo.6537:

I don’t think that the ability to continue playing a part of the game that was part of the core experience should be penalized just because of a revamp that really wasn’t new content.

Nothing is stopping you from continuing to play the existing 1-50 fractal content. Levels 51+ are HoT content, which you can technically still access, albeit with greater difficulty, but the fact that you are even able to do so seems generous to me.

As for the ascended salvage kit, the only purpose that serves is to provide mats for the Legendary pre cursor crafting which is also HoT only content, so there is no need for f2p players to have access to it.

There’s nothing new about fractal 51-100 aside from the numbers. The agony ticks are higher, but it’s still the same tune. Even the instabilities are from previous instabilities, just moved around. Unless you consider more HP new content?

I was talking about ascended salvaging. I was just referring to infusion extraction to upgrade my agony resistance.

If you pay for a season’s pass at Disneyland and suddenly they told you that you can stand in the line, but you can’t ride the rides until you ‘upgrade’ your pass because they decided to let people go around twice. That seems hardly fair. I think if you’re familiar with fractal content you can see right away this is hardly ‘new’ content. I guess they’re very generous that they even allow me to log into the game since I only paid for the original.

That analogy doesn’t work. It would be more accurate to say that you bought a season pass for Disneyland which included the Magic Kingdom, Epcot, and MGM studios. Then they later came out with the Animal Kingdom, would you expect to have that included in the old pass? No, that would be ridiculous, its a new attraction so you need a new ticket.

Now, you can make the argument that the new fractal content is not worthwhile content and therefore you don’t want to pay for it but that is subjective and something we must individually decide for ourselves.

Did you even run through fractals 1-50? Let’s work with your analogy. Suppose they included Magic Kingdom, Epcot, and MGM studios. Then they made the walk way into the Magic Kingdom twice as long to walk up to and called it Magic Kingdom II.

I would like to hear what’s ‘new’ about the new fractals from your experience. I can freely admit that there might be things I’ve overlooked as something new in the fractal game experience that didn’t exist in the pre-update fractals experience that i’ve overlooked.

Well if the walkway is twice as long, I guess I’ll just take the tram

Seriously though, I was basing the new content on the fact that levels 51-100 didn’t exist prior to HoT.

Now I do agree that its not very satisfying still having the same fractals after 2+ years, and I think they really need to address that if they want people to continue playing fractals. Adding a Legendary collection is nice, and I’m looking forward to working my way towards that but they really need to add fresh content and do it soon

I don’t agree with the OP’s proposition, but that’s no reason to insist that they should have saved up $50 for the expansion. If the player doesn’t want to spend, that’s their choice; they shouldn’t be expected to be forced to pay to play the core content.

For the OP, the reason I disagree with your initial critique is that you can already play the old content without getting an extractor. The agony on L50 and below is reduced from how it was before, so there’s no particular need to extract your +10 from an old item. Plus, you can make new ones for less than pre-HoT values, since the price of +1 infusions has drops by 40% so far.

The L51+ fractals, however, are new content and I think it’s fair for ANet to gate (or nearly gate) those levels behind the expansion, including convenience items such as extractors.

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

I don’t agree with the OP’s proposition, but that’s no reason to insist that they should have saved up $50 for the expansion. If the player doesn’t want to spend, that’s their choice; they shouldn’t be expected to be forced to pay to play the core content.

For the OP, the reason I disagree with your initial critique is that you can already play the old content without getting an extractor. The agony on L50 and below is reduced from how it was before, so there’s no particular need to extract your +10 from an old item. Plus, you can make new ones for less than pre-HoT values, since the price of +1 infusions has drops by 40% so far.

The L51+ fractals, however, are new content and I think it’s fair for ANet to gate (or nearly gate) those levels behind the expansion, including convenience items such as extractors.

problem with you theory is, its not new content.
scales were reworked, old level 50 is not as hard as it used to be
it also doesnt give the same reward teir, and only gives you access to 3 dailies.

the entire level 51-60 fractal was one fractal before. which had exploding enemies. you could randomly roll all of those levels.

id say “new” content begins at 71.

phys.7689:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

I don’t agree with the OP’s proposition, but that’s no reason to insist that they should have saved up $50 for the expansion. If the player doesn’t want to spend, that’s their choice; they shouldn’t be expected to be forced to pay to play the core content.

For the OP, the reason I disagree with your initial critique is that you can already play the old content without getting an extractor. The agony on L50 and below is reduced from how it was before, so there’s no particular need to extract your +10 from an old item. Plus, you can make new ones for less than pre-HoT values, since the price of +1 infusions has drops by 40% so far.

The L51+ fractals, however, are new content and I think it’s fair for ANet to gate (or nearly gate) those levels behind the expansion, including convenience items such as extractors.

problem with you theory is, its not new content.
scales were reworked, old level 50 is not as hard as it used to be
it also doesnt give the same reward teir, and only gives you access to 3 dailies.

the entire level 51-60 fractal was one fractal before. which had exploding enemies. you could randomly roll all of those levels.

id say “new” content begins at 71.

I still don’t think that makes the OP correct. The claim is that “new” fractal content is unreasonably gated in favor of HoT players, entirely due to the absence of reasonably-priced extractors. Even if I agreed that “new” content isn’t available until L71+ (and I’d prefer not to digress the thread about what “new” might mean), the extractors aren’t required.

L71, the suggested line between old and new, requires AR98. That can be acquired without masteries or extractors:

• Three infused items: two rings, one back. The rings are easily obtained (forged or found); the backpack is only slightly more difficult.
• +51 AR from three +17 Agony Infusions (you could get larger AI, but the costs become prohibitive).
• +25 from four trinkets + back item each with +5 simple infusions
• +30 from ascended armor.

That gives a total of AR101, allowing those without HoT to do all of the “old” content, regardless of when that starts.

Admittedly, that’s likely to be more expensive than the options available to HoT owners, but not it’s not substantially more expensive than options that players chose prior to HoT’s launch.

tl;dr the OP’s claim that FotM’s old content is unreasonably gated against core-only customers is an exaggeration.

(I ignore entirely other potential issues of balance, rewards, and ‘fun’ that might be present in the new system — my goal was only to address the specific claim made by the OP.)

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

phys.7689:

Illconceived Was Na.9781:

I don’t agree with the OP’s proposition, but that’s no reason to insist that they should have saved up $50 for the expansion. If the player doesn’t want to spend, that’s their choice; they shouldn’t be expected to be forced to pay to play the core content.

For the OP, the reason I disagree with your initial critique is that you can already play the old content without getting an extractor. The agony on L50 and below is reduced from how it was before, so there’s no particular need to extract your +10 from an old item. Plus, you can make new ones for less than pre-HoT values, since the price of +1 infusions has drops by 40% so far.

The L51+ fractals, however, are new content and I think it’s fair for ANet to gate (or nearly gate) those levels behind the expansion, including convenience items such as extractors.

problem with you theory is, its not new content.
scales were reworked, old level 50 is not as hard as it used to be
it also doesnt give the same reward teir, and only gives you access to 3 dailies.

the entire level 51-60 fractal was one fractal before. which had exploding enemies. you could randomly roll all of those levels.

id say “new” content begins at 71.

I still don’t think that makes the OP correct. The claim is that “new” fractal content is unreasonably gated in favor of HoT players, entirely due to the absence of reasonably-priced extractors. Even if I agreed that “new” content isn’t available until L71+ (and I’d prefer not to digress the thread about what “new” might mean), the extractors aren’t required.

L71, the suggested line between old and new, requires AR98. That can be acquired without masteries or extractors:

• Three infused items: two rings, one back. The rings are easily obtained (forged or found); the backpack is only slightly more difficult.
• +51 AR from three +17 Agony Infusions (you could get larger AI, but the costs become prohibitive).
• +25 from four trinkets + back item each with +5 simple infusions
• +30 from ascended armor.

That gives a total of AR101, allowing those without HoT to do all of the “old” content, regardless of when that starts.

Admittedly, that’s likely to be more expensive than the options available to HoT owners, but not it’s not substantially more expensive than options that players chose prior to HoT’s launch.

tl;dr the OP’s claim that FotM’s old content is unreasonably gated against core-only customers is an exaggeration.

(I ignore entirely other potential issues of balance, rewards, and ‘fun’ that might be present in the new system — my goal was only to address the specific claim made by the OP.)

sorry man, +17 are prohibitive, extremely so.
that would take 2^16 infusions 65536 infusions. Its geometric growth. that doesnt even include the insane gold cost of trying to buy the thermocatalytics.

that is no where near approachable.

and really im letting 71+ be called new content, when it barely fits the category.

They didnt consider normal fractal players at all. Mist esssence no longer even drops at the right levels,, making it highly unlikely that a non hot player can even infuse their rings to put those 2261 gold (just infusions alone) infusions x3 into the slots.
Not to mention, since you cant extract the agony, you cant even really work toward it, putting say a +12 in there would set you back 2048 infusions you would never get back.

not to mention full ascended is nowhere near close to acessible.

I know you are an anet fan, but it doesnt even begin to make any sense what you are suggesting as being accessible.

and its substantially more expensive because getting level 50, only required 70 agony. And had even more content available than current hot, which basically takes 10/12 possibilities out of 3 of the old instabilities.