Guild Wars 2

[HeX]Hexagonis
Molten Facility Fractal
10/05/15
game build 48,555
Restricted time: 10:50

Ele – Johnny Howitzer PoV
Engi – Tákú PoV
Warr – Aeyana Achilles
Guard – Nika Marooned
Thief – Ingyi

Not exactly the best party composition but a decent time.

Is jumping the wall considered restricted or unrestricted? Jumping the wall in the Molten Bosses Fractal to force the teleport was considered unrestricted before.

Looks like Anet actually fixed it where it bugs out if you enter the room before the NPCs now as well?

Nice run regardless. Something to bypass timegates is always nice to make daily runs go faster.

Enko.6123:

Is jumping the wall considered restricted or unrestricted? Jumping the wall in the Molten Bosses Fractal to force the teleport was considered unrestricted before.

Looks like Anet actually fixed it where it bugs out if you enter the room before the NPCs now as well?

Nice run regardless. Something to bypass timegates is always nice to make daily runs go faster.

It is considered restricted, it isn’t skipping a boss. Just a good use of game mechanics

Painbow.6059:

Enko.6123:

Is jumping the wall considered restricted or unrestricted? Jumping the wall in the Molten Bosses Fractal to force the teleport was considered unrestricted before.

Looks like Anet actually fixed it where it bugs out if you enter the room before the NPCs now as well?

Nice run regardless. Something to bypass timegates is always nice to make daily runs go faster.

It is considered restricted, it isn’t skipping a boss. Just a good use of game mechanics

Got it. just wondering since getting to some areas on dungeons are usually considered breaking out of the map. wasn’t sure about this.
Did you get that confirmed by someone from gw2dungeons.net?

The rule in question has nothing to do with skipping bosses.

8.) If any party member(s) at any point enter ‘out of bounds’ on a dungeon map, the time will be void.

The real question is whether this specifically counts as out of bounds or not. I personally don’t think it is, and typically if this sort of thing were to be considered disallowed it’d be banned by specific exception. Like I said, I’m personally okay with this one since it doesn’t seem particularly exploity (and seems rather clever to move the NPCs), but that’s me.

I wasn’t 100% sure it’d be allowed so decided to post it as restricted and let people decide. If its not at least everyone’s daily runs will be 20-30s shorter.

Note you don’t necessarily need to RTL/Rocket Boots over from where I did, any class with a Leap can make it from the opposite side of the gate where there is a concrete slope you can leap onto the fence from (so you can do it with pugs regardless of what you’re playing).

I don’t know if walking into the room early still bugs the instance or not, we just use this method now which hasn’t bugged yet

Aldarn.4650:

I don’t know if walking into the room early still bugs the instance or not, we just use this method now which hasn’t bugged yet

Still bugs out if you enter the room when Rocks and Broham are talking on the ledge.

Anyway, I am approving this. I really don’t think it’s an issue what was done, but I welcome other approvers to contest it if they feel it counts as going out of bounds per rule 8. We can always change it to unrestricted later.

Seems fine to me.

I don’t really comment on public forums much, but for the sake of putting in some input on the matter I think it’s completely dumb that this is being viewed as restricted. I mean not that I actually care about the path but more so how this kind of out look is going to effect future records in general. Only way I could agree with this is if the game allows a character to blink to that spot therefore giving them a valid path. The fact that an ele had to ride the lightning over lava that would otherwise kill you and walk on a 50 ft fence that you’re not suppose to be on is pretty sketchy for a restricted run.

Leon Mendice.3024:

I don’t really comment on public forums much, but for the sake of putting in some input on the matter I think it’s completely dumb that this is being viewed as restricted. I mean not that I actually care about the path but more so how this kind of out look is going to effect future records in general. Only way I could agree with this is if the game allows a character to blink to that spot therefore giving them a valid path. The fact that an ele had to ride the lightning over lava that would otherwise kill you and walk on a 50 ft fence that you’re not suppose to be on is pretty sketchy for a restricted run.

You don’t have to use ride the lightning. As seen in the engineer pov, any class with a leap can jump on the ledge from the rock on the opposite side.

Lendruil.9061:

Leon Mendice.3024:

I don’t really comment on public forums much, but for the sake of putting in some input on the matter I think it’s completely dumb that this is being viewed as restricted. I mean not that I actually care about the path but more so how this kind of out look is going to effect future records in general. Only way I could agree with this is if the game allows a character to blink to that spot therefore giving them a valid path. The fact that an ele had to ride the lightning over lava that would otherwise kill you and walk on a 50 ft fence that you’re not suppose to be on is pretty sketchy for a restricted run.

You don’t have to use ride the lightning. As seen in the engineer pov, any class with a leap can jump on the ledge from the rock on the opposite side.

The point isn’t you can only use ride the lightning. The point is you have to use a skill to get to a part of the map the developers didn’t want you to be at. Therefore you’re out of bounds, the run violates rule 8 considering restricted runs.

> Requires leap skill to get to certain place that would otherwise be inaccessible to change NPC behaviour
> Restricted
> MFW

You can go ahead and end the restricted category right now if you’re blind enough enough to allow this crap.

Leaping over and standing on an otherwise impossible to get to wall.
Jumping puzzle on Arah P4.
Jumping is a game mechanic, right?

Not even considering you already teleported the NPCs.

“Clever use of game mechanics” is an excuse for slowly going over the line about what is and what is not restricted.

Lelouch.8745:

> Requires leap skill to get to certain place that would otherwise be inaccessible to change NPC behaviour
> Restricted
> MFW

You can go ahead and end the restricted category right now if you’re blind enough enough to allow this crap.

All this does is cut down on time spent waiting for NPCs, in that regard its no different from getting NPCs killed to skip dialogue or using waypoints to teleport NPCs around the map which is present in multiple current records (e.g. AC p1, SE p3). There are no events skipped, not even any mobs that we would have to have run past otherwise. If this is the end of the restricted category then it already ended long ago.

Getting out of bounds makes this unrestricted, not teleporting the NPCs

Velho.7123:

Leaping over and standing on an otherwise impossible to get to wall.
Jumping puzzle on Arah P4.
Jumping is a game mechanic, right?

Not even considering you already teleported the NPCs.

“Clever use of game mechanics” is an excuse for slowly going over the line about what is and what is not restricted.

Teleporting NPCs is legit, and Arah p4’s tree skip is banned because you legitimately do go out of bounds as there is no mesh for the terrain at certain points of the skip. As far as the rules are concerned, IMO, what is being done in this path is allowed. The only way I can see that it should be marked as UR is if the guilds vote on it as a specific exception like was done with jumping over the wall in the Urban Battleground fractal.

I don’t know what out of bounds is if not a place that you can only reach with specific abilities and that is in no way connected to the ‘intended’ path

Might as well make the safespot on the core unrestricted then. Or jumping over the door in CoE

Jumping over the door in CoE would be allowed except that it breaks rule 5, whereas this discussion is about rule 8. As for the safe spot on the core, I honestly have no idea to what you’re referring, so I can’t comment other than to say that safespotting is barred under rule 12.

You can do the arah p4 tree skip without any leap abilities, does this make that skip “legit”?

This is clearly unrestricted for the same reasons as arah p4 skips is, you leap to a place you arent intended to beand you do actually skip the entire talking so it depends on how you view skipping a event.

We could also take the skip in arah p3 after first boss, where any class with leaps can get over there and go straight to the devastator where they today in records use a mesmer to run around and have a portal rdy (havent used that specific skip in a long time so doesnt know if its fixed), if this is allowed in a restricted run then why isnt arah skips? It clearly is the same thing done and of the same purpose, to skip stuff thats meant to happend. Only difference is that arah skip is a lot more obvious then this one but the purpose is exactly the same!

I personally feel some of these rules needs to be reworked so situations like this doesnt occur, if the record community wanna look serious then this type of errors shouldnt be in the margins.

The NPCs don’t skip the dialogue, the full dialogue is performed, the gate then opens and they teleport down and start the 2nd dialogue. All that is skipped is the time the NPCs take to run from the top down to the test room.

You’re all missing out major parts of the skips in arah though. When you skip in arah you are actually skipping out content, missing mobs etc. We didn’t skip any content, we just used a clever mechanic to speed up the NPCS, we’ve not hid the way we have done it. If you want us to run it again and not do this, we will lose 20 – 30 seconds of our time and still have the record.

If every class could get there without help of conjures etc I would agree but I would like seeing a thief or mesmer go there with only their own skills

Rules can always be read different by different people but I clearly think this one should be you are not allowed to be on any kind of place where all classes cant get naturally.

By including that to the rule discussions like this would never have to occur

The way I see it, this is something that should be allowed just like the Arah p3 start. The p3 skip breaks rule 5 but was voted to be allowed. Except in this situation you’re not skipping events or even trash. You’re avoiding a potential progress blocking bug and a timegate. Pretty nice little trick if you ask me.

8.) If any party member(s) at any point enter ‘out of bounds’ on a dungeon map, the time will be void.

I’ll elaborate on this for people, as a lot seem to be struggling. This means anywhere that ArenaNet did not intend you to go, is considered out of bounds as made blatantly obvious by being unable to easily reach these areas. Sure, that’s a little subjective, but there’s a clear cut difference between jumping up a rock (allowed), using leaps/blinks to get somewhere you couldn’t get to otherwise (not allowed) and flat out leaving the map, even if jumping is all that’s required (not allowed.)

How this is actually being debated is truly beyond me.

Lelouch.8745:

—

How this is actually being debated is truly beyond me.

That’s called having a personal opinion.

On the same matter techicly the door isnt closed unless you aggro them so its not actually blocked initially. If we go that way we have to vote on every single trick use which isnt really viable way of having rules. (I know its closed before cutscene obviously but it opens up immidiately after cutscene so techicly its open when the path starts).

A rule system should be simple enough to rule out stuff like this even though the arah p3 one is in the discussion zone+all classes can go there and do the skip, in the fractal one you need a leap so it isnt the same thing.

And yeah sure you need stealth to do that skip in arah p3 but Im quite sure stealthing in this case doesnt count as going out of bounds

VenomBlades.9432:

On the same matter techicly the door isnt closed unless you aggro them so its not actually blocked initially. If we go that way we have to vote on every single trick use which isnt really viable way of having rules. (I know its closed before cutscene obviously but it opens up immidiately after cutscene so techicly its open when the path starts).

A rule system should be simple enough to rule out stuff like this even though the arah p3 one is in the discussion zone+all classes can go there and do the skip, in the fractal one you need a leap so it isnt the same thing.

And yeah sure you need stealth to do that skip in arah p3 but Im quite sure stealthing in this case doesnt count as going out of bounds

Considering you can’t use consumables how do you pull off the Arahp3 thing without Thief/engi/Mes? Truly curious.

Wethospu.6437:

That’s called having a personal opinion.

That is the conclusion that an observant person comes to after looking at all the previous decisions made when questionable content is posted.

Jerus did you choose to only read selected sentences of my post that suited your opinion?
I make a point list to make sure you cant miss it again.

1) The door is open immidiately after cutscene is closed so it isnt actually closed in the first place.
2) Stealthing is not considered breaking out of bounds.
3) All classes can easily reach the area so no class specific skills required to reach here.

obviously you need stealth since that the door closes in the first place is triggered if you aggro the mobs, so technicly you arent at all breaking through a event progress its more of a optional event that only triggers if you are visible. Real events are triggered regardless of if you are stealthed or not. Otherwise skipping trash at any place should be considered unrestricted and thats ridicoulous.

The fractal case:

1) You use a leap or RTL to get to a place only some classes can walk on.
2) It’s clearly a place where you aren’t intended to be.

So as Lelouch says I dont actually either get why this is being discussed its actually crystal clear even

Jerus.4350:

Considering you can’t use consumables how do you pull off the Arahp3 thing without Thief/engi/Mes? Truly curious.

Technically you don’t need to be in stealth for the door to open, it will stay open forever as long as at least one player is next to the door when you select the path. Not that its useful for your whole team to be revealed there…

Subi.8014:

Jerus.4350:

Considering you can’t use consumables how do you pull off the Arahp3 thing without Thief/engi/Mes? Truly curious.

Technically you don’t need to be in stealth for the door to open, it will stay open forever as long as at least one player is next to the door when you select the path. Not that its useful for your whole team to be revealed there…

To do this you’d what? Use the pathing on all that trash, then waypoint back and run up to the door and quickly move in before it closes from the cutscene? Wouldn’t the time to path things change the situation enough to not really call it the same thing? Or even killing them? Or can you pull it off by just running far enough? And would running that far chew up a lot of time again not really making it the same thing?

VenomBlades.9432:

Jerus did you choose to only read selected sentences of my post that suited your opinion?
I make a point list to make sure you cant miss it again.

1) The door is open immidiately after cutscene is closed so it isnt actually closed in the first place.
2) Stealthing is not considered breaking out of bounds.
3) All classes can easily reach the area so no class specific skills required to reach here.

obviously you need stealth since that the door closes in the first place is triggered if you aggro the mobs, so technicly you arent at all breaking through a event progress its more of a optional event that only triggers if you are visible. Real events are triggered regardless of if you are stealthed or not. Otherwise skipping trash at any place should be considered unrestricted and thats ridicoulous.

The fractal case:

1) You use a leap or RTL to get to a place only some classes can walk on.
2) It’s clearly a place where you aren’t intended to be.

So as Lelouch says I dont actually either get why this is being discussed its actually crystal clear even

Not even really trying to make a point, just honestly curious how to pull it off, any way I can think of probably isn’t much better than just slaughtering everything anyways, unless there is a way to do it that I don’t understand, which is again why I’m curious.

Though I will point out that it was said you can use a regular leap it’s not required to use RTL for the MF thing.

Another cool trick banned? Love you guys. :P

Even if sb would consider this trick as questionable, there are already questionable exceptions listed in gw2dungeons.net, that are allowed.
How i see it: If some “trick” doesn’t skip a boss or an event or doesn’t do any harm to the natural behavior of the dungeon, it should be allowed. Therefore this Molten Facility “Trick” should be listed as another path specific exception, since all it does is making the boring and timegated waiting for the npcs a bit shorter.
The run wouldn’t be more interesting if people are just standing at the entrance of the cage for 20s and are just waiting for the npcs.

Yeah, if this is considered restricted why do we have two rulesets anyway. This is as much out of bounds as it gets, it’s not even about skipping, it’s not about time.

But if you don’t see that I don’t think there is a point in keeping up discussion.

I have moved it to unrestricted for the time being. If we want to create a path specific rule we can move it back.

Cheezy.2039:

Yeah, if this is considered restricted why do we have two rulesets anyway. This is as much out of bounds as it gets, it’s not even about skipping, it’s not about time.

But if you don’t see that I don’t think there is a point in keeping up discussion.

Yea, you’re spot on dude. It’s pretty pathetic that this topic is even being debated right now.

Cheezy.2039:

Yeah, if this is considered restricted why do we have two rulesets anyway. This is as much out of bounds as it gets, it’s not even about skipping, it’s not about time.

But if you don’t see that I don’t think there is a point in keeping up discussion.

I feel the same way about Arahp3, but that was allowed…

spoj.9672:

I have moved it to unrestricted for the time being. If we want to create a path specific rule we can move it back.

I really don’t think this is the appropriate action. It should be restricted until voted to be banned as a path-specific rule by the speed clearing guilds.

Only reason i did so is because its just/almost as much out of bounds as the simin skip in arah p4. So if you go by the rules as written then its questionable. Plus people are moaning as usual.

Personally id rather just ban everything until people realise all these restrictions arent making speedruns better. Which means moving half the current records to unrestricted.

spoj.9672:

Only reason i did so is because its just/almost as much out of bounds as the simin skip in arah p4. So if you go by the rules as written then its questionable. Plus people are moaning as usual.

Personally id rather just ban everything until people realise all these restrictions arent making speedruns better. Which means moving half the current records to unrestricted.

So is this restricted or unrestricted. Still listed as restricted.
Personally, I agree with you that these restrictions aren’t making speed runs any better.

Ill leave it as restricted. Hopefully we will get this particular issue voted on in the next week or so.

spoj.9672:

Ill leave it as restricted. Hopefully we will get this particular issue voted on in the next week or so.

Roger. just checking because of your previous statements. They would have had the time even if they didn’t jump over there anyways.