Guild Wars 2

Hello everyone, as the tittle implies i’m curious if full Zealot build would be better than full Magi

this one for instance http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQNAW8Xn0rCtqgNrA2sCEtiFDBDerGWLrOvuXQPgJAsuaAA-TRSBQBnSHQqU/BAHEAL8EAQpSQ8oZQfXAgss/wqU+RKA/2bB-e

Magi seems to give a lot of vitality, but on the other hand with zealot dps is a bit better, but with a cost to healing power. My question is if this build is viable as well? If not then why.

magi if your group need you to heal, berserker/viper if you want to do dmg.

Problem is the staff, if you want to heal, then staff is the go to weapon, but it scale very porly with power so your gain from zealot is more or less null.

When you dont need to heal (or be the main healer), then you go berserker/viper and use your avatar for healing and here you lose alot of dmg by going zealot.

DPS, yeah? You’re trying to min/max DPS?

You camp staff the entire time. It does negligible DPS. The DPS increase, practically speaking, is next to nothing.

Better to overheal and keep necro minions alive than get an extra 500 dps out of your crappy staff. It’s really just next to nothing.

Sigfodr.9576:

magi if your group need you to heal, berserker/viper if you want to do dmg.

Problem is the staff, if you want to heal, then staff is the go to weapon, but it scale very porly with power so your gain from zealot is more or less null.

When you dont need to heal (or be the main healer), then you go berserker/viper and use your avatar for healing and here you lose alot of dmg by going zealot.

Good point, thanks for the feedback.

I actually have some apothecary stuff because druid will still do condi on a lot of attacks. Here is my build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vNAQNAW3fn0rCtqgNrA2sCUtgFDBjJAsuaAwd1waZt5dkittenBA-TRDBQBjRpx+uAA+TzgGOIARRJmHVGchHAwzOCAaZ/Bho+TFUCiKdAAwEHpA8bOA-e
The point of wilderness survival is you never get feared on sloth or stunned by gorse and do not have to waste a utility skill on a break. I changed the first druid trait to reduce cooldowns because it gives a lot more healing than the other trait. Also, depending on the fight, Axe-torch (if you stay close), shortbow otherwise, and Axe-Axe if, on Matthias, they need a tertiary reflector. However, you will primarily camp staff as the main healer. I also have a magi staff with the same sigils in case of the group needing more healing or learning new fights.
Also, do not waste your money on a utility item. I use the WvW provisioner for compact crystal because the tiny bit more damage never hurt anyone but no reason to break the bank on things not needed. You are there to heal and give the team that 17.5% damage boost, not do damage yourself.
In another thread/post somewhere, I read that there are diminishing returns from heal power over 1k. This is not from the formula, which is linear, but from the fact that you start to do crazy overhealing. I decided on a healthy balance with the condi stuff I did. Anything less and my group struggled, anything more and I find myself never needing to go into celestial avatar. Also, 1335 is really close to 1337

Zealot is only really good on tempest healing.

I would aim to maximise your personal damage while still doing enough healing to comfortably keep your squad alive. Experiment with different gear sets and eventually you’ll settle on the best one for a particular boss / group.

Staff DPS isn’t as bad as people make it out to be, with realistic buffs it’s about 10k DPS with full Berserker (0 healing power), 7k DPS with full Zealot’s/Monk Runes (~1000 healing power) and ~4-5k DPS with full Magi’s/Monk Runes (~1200 healing power). You’ll be going into CA for 1-2 seconds on each rotation so you can reduce those by about 20%.

Basically even in the worst case scenario of camping staff all day long (Which you shouldn’t be doing on any raid boss) you’ll still get a pretty large gain by dropping the Magi’s and moving to more offensive gear sets. Eventually aiming for berserker/viper’s once you’re comfortable on Druid.

I use a mix of zealot and berserker in groups that need much heal. Magi is nearly always overkill, IF your group is getting too much damage you can still swap in some more healingpower.
With ~1k healingpower you can heal most groups (there are some groups that struggle because of very bad movement…).
As for the DPS: You are still a member of a raidteam which is trying to maximize their damage. You can maximize your damage while still beeing able to heal even if your group needs more heal than a berserker druid can bring). Magi has no power so it cuts your damage to 50% of what you could do with zealot, but is only bringing a bit more healing which is not needed in most cases.
Another thing that i see in many druidbuilds: Naturemagic.
This traitline is only usefull if you need protection or random stabillity or use a warhorn. If you aren’t using any of those options take Marksmanship for a huge dps boost. The Might from frost spirit isn’t needed in any way and vigorfrom sunspirit doesn’t last very long and is not needed in most fights (at VG you don’t even use one if you aren’t in a condition based subgroup).

Even some really experienced groups still prefer magi druids. It has its benefits it has its downsides.

Benefits:
1. Easier CA uptime therefore more uptime in GotL
2. Even the best of the best make mistakes sometimes and the extra healing power pretty much makes a run stress free.
3. Easier to overheal due to more energy coming in therefore giving more GotL constantly. Therefore potentially boosting the group damage more than your personal DPS gain by going berserkers.
4. Safety net against screw ups (even the best of the best players and teams will make mistakes once in a while trust me on this).
5. BIGGEST BENEFIT: Keeps necro minions alive much much much much better

The argument for magi is that if a regular group is depending on a druid’s 10k dps then the group is clearly doing something wrong. More GotL uptime will outweigh personal DPS gains as GotL is 15% on multiple people and keeping minions alive is also worth it. It’s just safer overall and leads to stress free runs. A group I run with can clear all 3 wings in 2 hours running magi druids. Therefore the DPS loss for more safety in the terms of healing is worth considering.

Another bonus pro I would consider that magi druid offer is that constant healing tops people off for scholar buffs easier.

Cons:
1. Very low damage.
2. A lot of wasted stats as for some of the fights as the extra healing isn’t really needed.

The argument of not running magi is that a lot of fights the extra healing isn’t really needed as people are good at avoiding most of the damage now. However like I said before, energy will not be coming in as fast due to not using staff a lot. This reduces uptime on GotL and healing overall. Also when screw ups happen the base healing is usually not enough to bail the team out and recovery. However, if the extra damage you think will be worth it, you are fine to run berserker or condi druid.

tl;dr There are situations where magi and DPS druid both do well at. It’s up to your play style, group play style, and group preferences to determine which one will work better for the given situation.

Personal opinion:
I actually still prefer magi over DPS druids. It’s just safer and leads to runs where there is no stress at all as well as catching screw ups. Another way I think of it is that 15% from GotL on multiple people more consistently and keeping minions alive is way more worth it than personal DPS gains from using berserker/condi druid. So I think it’s just better to over heal with magi boosting more people with GotL more consistently and keeping necro minions alive. That is the better way of increasing group DPS than going DPS druids. Think of it is helping the group do more damage without actually doing it yourself.

Realistically, Zealot is bad because it tries too hard to do two different things and as a result does both of them poorly. If you want damage / offensive support only and your group is very capable of keeping themselves alive overall, then condition Viper Druid is absolutely the way to go. If you have to spend any time in staff, however, then Magi is the way to go because the damage is crap either way so you may as well go for the gusto with primary stat healing.

In my honest opinion, steady groups that are extremely good at the content should run Viper Druids, and casual / pub groups should always run Magi. If your team is relying on the 10k DPS of a Staff Druid to succeed, then your team needs to work on better handling the mechanics of the encounter instead.

Finally, no matter how experienced your pub runs claim to be, and no matter how many LI they ask you to ping, pub groups aren’t used to working with eachother and people will make grievous mistakes. I have turned countless many-wipe runs into one-shots by running Magi and pulling off killer heroics to save teams.

Rising Dusk.2408:

If your team is relying on the 10k DPS of a Staff Druid to succeed, then your team needs to work on better handling the mechanics of the encounter instead.

This is actually one of the main arguments for magi druids that I agree with. Even some experienced fast groups that can clear in 2 hours will still run magi because of how safe it is.

Oh Snapalope.1378:

1. Easier CA uptime therefore more uptime in GotL

Sry but this is wrong. Healingpower does not increase CA uptime. It’s the combination of healingticks and damageticks. Sometimes you don’t even need a staff to fill CA before it’s CD ends. If you want to use CA consistent every time it’s CD ends you may use staff for a certain time. It does not force you to use magi.

Zealot is mainly an advantage for those who wish to take their Druid outside of Raids, too. Roaming around the open-world with Magi gear is painfully slow. At the same time, roaming around with Berzerkers kind of diminishes the recovering abilities Druid can offer.

Sure, one can run around in a mix of the two, but doing that when there is a single, uniform stat set is kind of counter-intuitive.

At the end of the day, having less health to rely on forces one to grow into a better player, and by extension — a better healer. If you find yourself getting downed due to your lack of health, then by all means — go Magi.

However, from my perspective, the extra health provided from Magi won’t likely be a deciding factor in whether one gets down or not. This is because if someone is not healing enough to keep their health capped, or consistently wanders into danger-zones relying on their gear to save them, then the different in survivability won’t mean much in the light of other issues.

Tornupto.2304:

Oh Snapalope.1378:

1. Easier CA uptime therefore more uptime in GotL

Sry but this is wrong. Healingpower does not increase CA uptime. It’s the combination of healingticks and damageticks. Sometimes you don’t even need a staff to fill CA before it’s CD ends. If you want to use CA consistent every time it’s CD ends you may use staff for a certain time. It does not force you to use magi.

You misunderstood me. I’m just saying since you use staff more on magi therefore have more access to energy because you will be using staff a lot of the time. I know healing does not increase the rate the bar fills. Does that answer your concern?

Oh Snapalope.1378:

Tornupto.2304:

Oh Snapalope.1378:

1. Easier CA uptime therefore more uptime in GotL

Sry but this is wrong. Healingpower does not increase CA uptime. It’s the combination of healingticks and damageticks. Sometimes you don’t even need a staff to fill CA before it’s CD ends. If you want to use CA consistent every time it’s CD ends you may use staff for a certain time. It does not force you to use magi.

You misunderstood me. I’m just saying since you use staff more on magi therefore have more access to energy because you will be using staff a lot of the time. I know healing does not increase the rate the bar fills. Does that answer your concern?

If you could now explain why you think you are using staff more with magi stats than with others… Camping on staff for a longer timeperiod can be done with any stats in case you need to heal as much as possible. It’s not restricted to magi. You can even do it with zealot or berserker or whatever you are using. That is not an argument to run magi. Its an argument to run staff.

Magi sucks.

Go half cleric , half berserker and stack healing effectiveness. You will have enough healing to be a healer while still doing consistent high damage.

DavyMcB.1603:

Magi sucks.

Go half cleric , half berserker and stack healing effectiveness. You will have enough healing to be a healer while still doing consistent high damage.

okay, sounds interesting, can you please back up your statement with a screenshot on the dps golem? i really want to see your “consistent high dmg”.

LUL

If you just want to have smooth raid clear, there is no reason to run anything other than magi. I’ve been clearing all raid bosses with 2-3mins left on timer with 2 magi druids tons of times. Your extra dps from using berserker/viper probably only add 5-15 seconds faster clear time but with much less consistency.

Tornupto.2304:

Oh Snapalope.1378:

Tornupto.2304:

Oh Snapalope.1378:

1. Easier CA uptime therefore more uptime in GotL

Sry but this is wrong. Healingpower does not increase CA uptime. It’s the combination of healingticks and damageticks. Sometimes you don’t even need a staff to fill CA before it’s CD ends. If you want to use CA consistent every time it’s CD ends you may use staff for a certain time. It does not force you to use magi.

You misunderstood me. I’m just saying since you use staff more on magi therefore have more access to energy because you will be using staff a lot of the time. I know healing does not increase the rate the bar fills. Does that answer your concern?

If you could now explain why you think you are using staff more with magi stats than with others… Camping on staff for a longer timeperiod can be done with any stats in case you need to heal as much as possible. It’s not restricted to magi. You can even do it with zealot or berserker or whatever you are using. That is not an argument to run magi. Its an argument to run staff.

So let’s say you have a condi druid which typically runs A/T + SB. Then you have a magi druid which uses staff mainly. Obviously the magi druid will build energy faster.

Oh Snapalope.1378:

So let’s say you have a condi druid which typically runs A/T + SB. Then you have a magi druid which uses staff mainly. Obviously the magi druid will build energy faster.

Yes but that isn’t caused by magi stats. It’s still the use of the staff. You will recover your astral force at the same speed with any stats using staff. So i still don’t get your point. Even zerker druids use a staff to build up energy fast in situations of pressure.
Btw: You don’t even need to use staff to get full astral force within 10 seconds. A healing spring (which is usefull at several bosses e.g. Matthias) will fill your astral force at an insane speed due to regen.

It really comes down to what you prefer.
Zealot has more than enough healing power to keep people up. Bosses still do not require the druids (yes even two) to run anything but Magi to beat the timer.

To be honest, I like both.
I like Zealot as a starting set especially if you already have Berserker’s trinkets ready to swap into for good damage. It is a ‘jack of all trades’ set which is more than good enough when you are starting out.
Magi isn’t any worse of a starting set, though. It is all about rather being ‘safe than sorry’. You will be rocking 25k+ hp which allows you to pay more attention to the other players and your rotation.
The difference in damage is pretty tiny unless you are running sword/axe almost entirely in which case you’d want to swap to Berserker, anyways.
The difference in healing power (about 400) does not make much of a difference if you are stacking all of that +% outgoing healing.
The major difference is all of that vitality. Such a high health pool is not needed to finish the raids of course. It is nice to have, though.

Honestly, the only thing I greatly advise against is getting both sets. That is the only huge waste here.
I’d probably go for Magi armor if I intended to add Berserk’s armor later on and just stick to Zealot armor if that is to only thing I’d ever plan on getting (as most players already have Berserker’s trinkets they could add to that set for more damage).

So they are gutting druid base healing and significantly upping the scaling. Pretty much post next balance patch, everyone will be forced into magi or zealot which has its ups and downs.