Guild Wars 2

I was curious as to the actual effectiveness of pure healing builds (played by guardian) in dungeons/fotm. I know raw damage is currently the standard but I can’t bring myself to play dps on my guardian, and i’m sick the AH cookie cutter or virtue blind spammer. I’m very intersted in running something like

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQNApeSlcgqDHFyLEm4ESmCRCBxeoRe0GdpwheIA-jQCBocQoNBkaAkKIQ5cDZNBKiFhFRjVNjIqWZDDA-e

I went for some healing with my guard. You can’t heal people to full hp like in other mmos that have classes for each thing (damage dealing, tanking, healing)
But it is effective. The heals are enough to help the team, most skills can heal everyone. I’m really enjoying playing as a healing guard (but I don’t recommend going all the way healing power, or you may have problems without a party)

Did you happen to look at the build I posted? It clocked in at 2675 power, but the crit is low (10%). i was considering switching the cleric’s accessories for berserker’s. it would bump me to almost 30% crit but knock my healing to 895. the problem is, considring I haven’t played healer, I don’t know what number to hit to be efficient.

Edit: I understand that there is no dedicated healer, and i’m not necessarily trying to force one, i just want the optimum support role

Gnat.9405:

It clocked in at 2675 power

no it didnt.
and with 1675 power youll hit like a wet noodle

edit

EEEEEEWWWW sentinels

The optimum support role is to give out as many offensive boons as possible to your party (might and fury), as much vulnerability as you can to your enemies, and pump out as much damage as possible while staying alive.

There are a couple guardian builds than fit this quite nicely. “Cleric’s support healer” isn’t one of them. You are slowing your team down.

Broadicea.8294:

There are a couple guardian builds than fit this quite nicely. “Cleric’s support healer” isn’t one of them. You are slowing your team down.

good point… lower damage = longer fights = more damage your team recieves (or more chance of fudging a dodge)

Ages ago I invested in a full set of clerics gear with dwayna runes life sigils and what not on an ele (class with one of the best healing coefficients).

No it doesn’t work.

thanks for the feedback. I figured it was a longshot that this would work. i guess I’ll drop my Necro’s condition build and go zerker for vuln spams.

You could always just take this ‘bunker and win’ mindset into PvP/WvW and drop Zerkers by looking at them.

Go zerk or go home is how GW2 plays. They honestly would probably make a lot of people happier if there was only one type of gear (zerkers) rather than a 15 different useless gear sets that just lead noobs into thinking they can play a role that they actually can’t.

Please don’t bring ‘healing’ anything to FotM. The less damage you do > the longer the fight > the more opportunities that people miss a dodge > the higher the chance of DPS zerker people actually pulling their weight going down > the higher the chance of party wipe.

The only exceptions to this are things like using a hammer if you have a couple of warriors in your party. Its damage output is not as good as sword or greatsword, but the permanent protection forces them into melee which is higher DPS output for them, and then when you’re all in range you can use your F2s and F3s and Save Yourselves to cleanse conditions when needed to keep them alive. Or using a staff when you need to range for whatever reason – line of warding can mitigate burst damage from ascalonian warriors in that particular fractal for example, and you can stack might/heal for the rest of the party. That is the only kind of ‘support’ you should be giving (and of course, wall of reflection/shield of the avenger when needed). Don’t otherwise trait for ‘healing’ or wear your rubbish cleric gear – save that for WvW/PvP.

Healing builds are really helpful when nobody in your group is playing the way that this forum plays dungeons.

I only bring this up because I have been in PUGs where a single healing character has been incredibly beneficial, since poor access to condition removal / dodging would have worn down teammates otherwise. But this forum generally focuses on high-skill play when discussing builds, and at that level people are responsible enough for their own life bars that they no longer need that kind of heal support.

I still can’t get over that full Cleric’s, 10k AP Thief using Signet of Malice… I am still truly gobsmacked about that.

Mesmer mantra build is quite effective, actually. I play a guardian and ele as well but neither can keep up with how much healing my mantras do. 2k per cast and mantra of pain is almost always up.

Only problem is you have to be relatively close.

Kagato.5390:

Mesmer mantra build is quite effective, actually. I play a guardian and ele as well but neither can keep up with how much healing my mantras do. 2k per cast and mantra of pain is almost always up.

Only problem is you have to be relatively close.

people have already outlined the other problem
in doing less damage you’re letting the party take more damage

Linguistically Inept.6583:

Kagato.5390:

Mesmer mantra build is quite effective, actually. I play a guardian and ele as well but neither can keep up with how much healing my mantras do. 2k per cast and mantra of pain is almost always up.

Only problem is you have to be relatively close.

people have already outlined the other problem
in doing less damage you’re letting the party take more damage

Had a ‘healing power’ mesmer at fotm 48 once, along with his pvt warrior friend.. It felt like I was having my fingernails removed it was so painful and slow.

Mesmers already have quite low DPS compared to most classes.. full cleric mesmer? might as well 4man it.

Linguistically Inept.6583:

Kagato.5390:

Mesmer mantra build is quite effective, actually. I play a guardian and ele as well but neither can keep up with how much healing my mantras do. 2k per cast and mantra of pain is almost always up.

Only problem is you have to be relatively close.

people have already outlined the other problem
in doing less damage you’re letting the party take more damage

This. People can’t seem to understand this. If you had to choose between fighting Mossman @ 48 for 3-4 minutes (or faster), or for 7-8 minutes, which would you choose? If zerk meleeing is riskier, wouldn’t taking twice as long fighting a dangerous boss in nonzero gear/build be even more risky?

Gnat.9405:

thanks for the feedback. I figured it was a longshot that this would work. i guess I’ll drop my Necro’s condition build and go zerker for vuln spams.

Nope, zerker axe necro build is still pretty bad. Dagger is a lot better.

At the beginning of GW2… those first 2 months, yeah it payed off for my Guardian to go all Healing. It still pays off sometimes in completely “NEW” dungeons, just like I’m sure it does for people who go all PVT gear as well. But yeah… those windows of opportunity are Short-lived due to just how Rote-memory based a lot of Anet’s “Challenge” design has ALWAYS been. If they spent even HALF of what they spent on cash shop Models (& other crap) …. on A.I. development instead, then Healing & Condition and Bunker / CC , and all other matter of “Divergent but mostly USELESS” specs coulda stayed pretty popular.

Meanwhile…. I’m quietly trying to build him up a whole new gearset. * shrug * :\

Sometimes it’s still fun to just join Pugs that you have a feeling are going to be horrible, then just Carry them through every single encounter in the dungeons. It’s a nice challenge and a real throw back to my days of Monking in GW1…. (but I wouldn’t wanna do it EVERY day, heh)

Hello there Gnat,

I’ve been playing support Guardian build ever since release, tunning it slighty over the months, until the point I felt like it works everywhere. People say you can’t be dedicated healer in dungeons, but it’s not true. You can, and you can do it very well.

Of course those who say that full berserk sets work even better might be correct, but not every group is full of pro players who know all the mechanics in the game, and know what to dodge. And in these groups, a healing Guardian can be very handy.

I usually run with 4 berserk warriors though, so they make up for all the damage I’m lacking, while I maintain their health, boons and Might on desirable level, as well as can add 10s of Quickness on bosses. Most of the time warriors don’t even need to dodge anything, cos they get stability, aegis, protection and regen, as well as direct heals at right moment.

Here is link to the build I run:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQNApeWlUgiCnFyKEg4ERWBRi9AjZsjXPS4DZIA-jwCBoNBCvBkYAgaAi+AMNqIas1uht6KalXBRNjIqWZDDA-e

0 0 30 30 10,
50% boon duration without cons,
shouts removing conditions,
up to 1800 healing power with Mace and Sigil of life,
Endless energy regen with the sigils of Energy+Stamina and vigor (fury from warriors helps with vigor)

Depending on encounter, one or two shouts are switched with consecrations like Hallowed Ground, Wall of Reflection, Sanctuary and in some particular dungeons/fractals Spirit Shield.

I played a lot in GW1 as Imbagon, and that’s exactly what I wanted to achieve in GW2. I think I succeeded, even though most players want to leave when they see a guardian with staff and mace, after one run with me they end up asking about my build. So I don’t think it’s that bad really, it’s just against the belief of “healing power scales bad” and “you can’t heal lol” and “play berserk, kk?”.

I’m trying to prepare extensive guide with videos on the gameplay with this build, so far got only two videos, TAkittenpath and CoE p2. You can check them here:

CoE:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwGTvLbPHIQ

TA:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5drmLuDu9Gs

It’s really weird for me when I see berserk guardians. If I want to do it berserk way, I play my warrior. If I want to play guardian, I like to dedicate myself to be best supporter you can get, even though my damage is crap.

Razzy.2741:

Hello there Gnat,

I’ve been playing support Guardian build ever since release, tunning it slighty over the months, until the point I felt like it works everywhere. People say you can’t be dedicated healer in dungeons, but it’s not true. You can, and you can do it very well.

Of course those who say that full berserk sets work even better might be correct, but not every group is full of pro players who know all the mechanics in the game, and know what to dodge. And in these groups, a healing Guardian can be very handy.

I usually run with 4 berserk warriors though, so they make up for all the damage I’m lacking, while I maintain their health, boons and Might on desirable level, as well as can add 10s of Quickness on bosses. Most of the time warriors don’t even need to dodge anything, cos they get stability, aegis, protection and regen, as well as direct heals at right moment.

Here is link to the build I run:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQNApeWlUgiCnFyKEg4ERWBRi9AjZsjXPS4DZIA-jwCBoNBCvBkYAgaAi+AMNqIas1uht6KalXBRNjIqWZDDA-e

0 0 30 30 10,
50% boon duration without cons,
shouts removing conditions,
up to 1800 healing power with Mace and Sigil of life,
Endless energy regen with the sigils of Energy+Stamina and vigor (fury from warriors helps with vigor)

Depending on encounter, one or two shouts are switched with consecrations like Hallowed Ground, Wall of Reflection, Sanctuary and in some particular dungeons/fractals Spirit Shield.

I played a lot in GW1 as Imbagon, and that’s exactly what I wanted to achieve in GW2. I think I succeeded, even though most players want to leave when they see a guardian with staff and mace, after one run with me they end up asking about my build. So I don’t think it’s that bad really, it’s just against the belief of “healing power scales bad” and “you can’t heal lol” and “play berserk, kk?”.

I’m trying to prepare extensive guide with videos on the gameplay with this build, so far got only two videos, TAkittenpath and CoE p2. You can check them here:

CoE:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwGTvLbPHIQ

TA:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5drmLuDu9Gs

It’s really weird for me when I see berserk guardians. If I want to do it berserk way, I play my warrior. If I want to play guardian, I like to dedicate myself to be best supporter you can get, even though my damage is crap.

I don’t even know what to say anymore.

guys, be gentle

It’s really weird for me when I see berserk guardians. If I want to do it berserk way, I play my warrior. If I want to play guardian, I like to dedicate myself to be best supporter you can get, even though my damage is crap.

It’s not so weird if you think about it this way. When you wear berserker armor your support skills and traits are still there. You can still use them, but your damage goes up a lot more from gear.

I will share my point of view when I tried to play a babysitter healer ele:
I have amazing burst heals, I can get everyone from near death to full health if with my water magic. But… with a good group that knows how to dodge and how boss mechanics work, I rarely need to use him. So all that healing = useless. But if I get a group that takes damage often, I use them frequently so that’s good right? No, when I’m healing people I deal almost 0 damage. And those people in low health starting running around like headless chickens so they don’t do damage either. The fight drags on, people keep taking unnecessary damage and die. In other words, if a group constantly needs healing, heals won’t save them. Killing things faster for them, on the other hand, can end those encounters faster or allow them to rally.

As i stated in my first post, and I believe the trolls missed it, the players who know what they are doing and know all the dungeons can stick to berserk gear and rush through them like that. But it’s not always the case, and many people enjoy dungeons in more relaxed atmosphere, without the need for everyone to be familiar with content. Support guardian can carry beginners and normal players giving them big margin for mistakes, and that’s what this build is for.

Good luck trying to make them realize they don’t represent entire player-base.

Razzy.2741:

Hello there Gnat,

I’ve been playing support Guardian build ever since release, tunning it slighty over the months, until the point I felt like it works everywhere. People say you can’t be dedicated healer in dungeons, but it’s not true. You can, and you can do it very well.

Of course those who say that full berserk sets work even better might be correct, but not every group is full of pro players who know all the mechanics in the game, and know what to dodge. And in these groups, a healing Guardian can be very handy.

I usually run with 4 berserk warriors though, so they make up for all the damage I’m lacking, while I maintain their health, boons and Might on desirable level, as well as can add 10s of Quickness on bosses. Most of the time warriors don’t even need to dodge anything, cos they get stability, aegis, protection and regen, as well as direct heals at right moment.

Here is link to the build I run:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fUAQNApeWlUgiCnFyKEg4ERWBRi9AjZsjXPS4DZIA-jwCBoNBCvBkYAgaAi+AMNqIas1uht6KalXBRNjIqWZDDA-e

0 0 30 30 10,
50% boon duration without cons,
shouts removing conditions,
up to 1800 healing power with Mace and Sigil of life,
Endless energy regen with the sigils of Energy+Stamina and vigor (fury from warriors helps with vigor)

Depending on encounter, one or two shouts are switched with consecrations like Hallowed Ground, Wall of Reflection, Sanctuary and in some particular dungeons/fractals Spirit Shield.

I played a lot in GW1 as Imbagon, and that’s exactly what I wanted to achieve in GW2. I think I succeeded, even though most players want to leave when they see a guardian with staff and mace, after one run with me they end up asking about my build. So I don’t think it’s that bad really, it’s just against the belief of “healing power scales bad” and “you can’t heal lol” and “play berserk, kk?”.

I’m trying to prepare extensive guide with videos on the gameplay with this build, so far got only two videos, TAkittenpath and CoE p2. You can check them here:

CoE:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwGTvLbPHIQ

TA:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5drmLuDu9Gs

It’s really weird for me when I see berserk guardians. If I want to do it berserk way, I play my warrior. If I want to play guardian, I like to dedicate myself to be best supporter you can get, even though my damage is crap.

I’m really confused… I didn’t see what you contributed. You didn’t really do any damage, and I didn’t see a bunch of green healing numbers either.

Wukunlin.8461:

guys, be gentle

It’s really weird for me when I see berserk guardians. If I want to do it berserk way, I play my warrior. If I want to play guardian, I like to dedicate myself to be best supporter you can get, even though my damage is crap.

It’s not so weird if you think about it this way. When you wear berserker armor your support skills and traits are still there. You can still use them, but your damage goes up a lot more from gear.

I will share my point of view when I tried to play a babysitter healer ele:
I have amazing burst heals, I can get everyone from near death to full health if with my water magic. But… with a good group that knows how to dodge and how boss mechanics work, I rarely need to use him. So all that healing = useless. But if I get a group that takes damage often, I use them frequently so that’s good right? No, when I’m healing people I deal almost 0 damage. And those people in low health starting running around like headless chickens so they don’t do damage either. The fight drags on, people keep taking unnecessary damage and die. In other words, if a group constantly needs healing, heals won’t save them. Killing things faster for them, on the other hand, can end those encounters faster or allow them to rally.

That’s where I use my berserk warrior. Not berserk guardian. but if the group deals decent damage, and there already are berserk warriors, who just aren’t too familiar with dodging yet, then I prefer healing guardian to fix their mistakes.

Anyhow, matter of preference. You guys can stick to your berserk way and it’s all fine. My point is, that healing is possible and works, doesn’t mean you all have to play with healing guardians. Stick to your berserk groups, and no need to try converting everyone around to your preferences.

@Neko
Don’t know what to say. Maybe if you were familiar with Empower skill, regen scaling with healing power and 50% longer boon duration, dodge roll heals and few other little things, it could be more clear what kind of support was done in there. But yeah, I was probably carried by warriors doing nothing and waving my staff around

Razzy.2741:

I guess the difference is I was using it on pugs where you are teaching guildies interested to learn. In that case we can agree training wheels are beneficial

Why advocate substandard play…

I’m sorry but I just could not take either of those videos seriously.

Since I like cookie cutter DPS Guardian:

http://youtu.be/NoXwp94Bltk

Hmm. A full cleric guardian heals for roughly 20% more but does only about 1/10 of a berserker guardians damage. Aside from that, guardian support is mostly based on protection, aegis and cobdition removal… which doesn’t scale with healing power anyway.

Dub.1273:

Hmm. A full cleric guardian heals for roughly 20% more but does only about 1/10 of a berserker guardians damage. Aside from that, guardian support is mostly based on protection, aegis and cobdition removal… which doesn’t scale with healing power anyway.

I agree with ostracizing healing builds but let’s not pull the numbers out-of-you-know-what. Full cleric guardian deals about 2.8-2.9 times less damage and with dodge roll heals for 3.5-4 times more

Oddly using a full PVT set with 0/0/30/30/10 comes close to 1/5 of my dps with berserker equipment and 10/25/0/25/10. And cleric doesn’t even have power as mainstat if i’m not mistaken.

Dub.1273:

Oddly using a full PVT set with 0/0/30/30/10 comes close to 1/5 of my dps with berserker equipment and 10/25/0/25/10. And cleric doesn’t even have power as mainstat if i’m not mistaken.

I compared berserker gear with 10/30/0/30/0 and cleric’s gear with 0/0/30/30/10. Fury makes the damage multiplier go from 2.8→2.9. No other boons were considered.

If you only compare stats maybe, but if you compare how that guy plays because he’s fancying himself a healer and swapping to staff autoattack midway through fights like alpha the damage is just beyond awful. Then consider the fact that this guy contributes zero vuln stacking etc.

Yeah, I can understand the argument to be made, that for people who aren’t as comfortable in berserker gear they might actually have better clear times in more defensive oriented gear and with a dedicated supporter team mate. But honestly they’re going to be better off in the long run if they just learn to start dodging and using evasion mechanics rather than relying on their “healer” guardian to carry them.

As a great mind once said, when practicing for a fight…

I’m not sure why staff camping guardians say they are healers. Staff auto attack doesn’t even heal, at least camp mace or something

I appreciate the feedback but I wish this wouldn’t continue as a thread that completely bashes peoples’ builds. The line that has been drawn is this: those players that are unfamiliar with dungeon mechanics, who can benefit from a defensive role in the party, and those players who do not need such support.

The conclusion I drew is clear, and thank you for the feedback, but this thread is going downhill fast.

I don’t really think it’s like that.

I mean, there is a damage bias in dungeons.
And I think it’s not good for your group if you try to ignore that, but I also think for a variety of non-skill-related reasons if you operate under the assumption of that somebody will be kissing dirt and all the finger pointing in the world isn’t going to bring them back up again.

If you’re feeling supporty, you should probably follow the cookie cutter setup as far as viewing support largely in terms of offensive buffs as a standard action instead of healing as a standard action. You should have a similar goal in that you want to avoid stepping on other people’s toes with offensive redundancy, but also striving to minimize your opportunity cost. This may involve bringing different things to table each time depending on what everybody else is.

But I do also think you should deviate from the cookie cutter setup in that you need to be able to make some situational nods to healing and defense on a case-by-case basis. The reason for this is that dead allies are a DPS loss far greater than the opportunity cost of the scant handful of skills and utilities you need to manage most recoveries. Defense is this odd mix of useless and powerful; when you don’t need it it does nothing, but when you do it’s so potent that you don’t even need to build any particular statistics to make use of it.

Wukunlin.8461:

No, when I’m healing people I deal almost 0 damage. And those people in low health starting running around like headless chickens so they don’t do damage either. The fight drags on, people keep taking unnecessary damage and die. In other words, if a group constantly needs healing, heals won’t save them. Killing things faster for them, on the other hand, can end those encounters faster or allow them to rally.

Perfect example right here of the RUT we’re stuck in that’s preventing us from getting more interesting Dungeon Encounters. Anet went so far towards Left4Dead and so far away from their first game that there’s not even any room for any of us who fell inbetween.. IE: your Smiter’sBoon monks or anything else that was comfortable plowing through FrostMaw’s HM really fast with the cleansing fire of Dwaynazar…

Anet is just plain BAD at punishing extremes… I think the last time they even tried, was stuff like F.o.C. and Mallyx… and that still didn’t even touch on DPS mashing like SeedofLife or AngelicProtection would if given to respawning “Adds” that actually WERE CC’able…

Gnat.9405:

I appreciate the feedback but I wish this wouldn’t continue as a thread that completely bashes peoples’ builds. The line that has been drawn is this: those players that are unfamiliar with dungeon mechanics, who can benefit from a defensive role in the party, and those players who do not need such support.

The conclusion I drew is clear, and thank you for the feedback, but this thread is going downhill fast.

No matter what you do. remember that auto attacking with a staff on any profession is one of the worst way to contribute to the team.

Healing power doesn’t really do anything. If you manage to stack up to say, 3.5k healing power, it will allow you to heal for a negligible 350 hp. As this dead/ dying game is getting updated it just becomes more and more obvious that full zerker is the only way to go. Enemies in new content can shred through 3.5k+ armor like paper and healing power is useless.

You can’t understand the impact of healing by looking at the size of the numbers and comparing them to the size of the numbers damage does. Not only are Mob HP bars massively larger than a player’s, but Damage is linear and Healing is cyclical. They don’t have to be as large to make the same impact.

True. Healing has no impact whereas damage has (particulary huge) impact.

You know what I mean, captain snarky.
The numbers themselves are totally sensible for the size of our HP pools, the problem areas with healing build options is that need for group recovery is too situational. Healing Power could scale 100 times what it does now, and we would still have a zerker meta.

Vox Hollow.2736:

You know what I mean, captain snarky.
The numbers themselves are totally sensible for the size of our HP pools, the problem areas with healing build options is that need for group recovery is too situational. Healing Power could scale 100 times what it does now, and we would still have a zerker meta.

Right, because it would be faster for clearing dungeons and Healing Power would still be useless. The stat itself is worthless so the scaling is irrelevant.

It sounds that for build diversity they should allow healing to be a lot more effective in PvE.

When anet wanted to make the game without involving the trinity, they destroyed healers as well as tanks. Why they put healing stats and tanky stats in their gear is beyond me. Because they are supposed to be useless from the get go.

If a boss does 5000 damage per second to your party, every second you add to the fight by doing less damage is you adding another 5000 damage that your party has to avoid or heal through. Every second you shave off by doing more damage is 5000 HP you’ve provided to your party.

Kill speed is the best damage mitigation in the game, no team healing comes close.

Broadicea.8294:

If a boss does 5000 damage per second to your party, every second you add to the fight by doing less damage is you adding another 5000 damage that your party has to avoid or heal through. Every second you shave off by doing more damage is 5000 HP you’ve provided to your party.

Kill speed is the best damage mitigation in the game, no team healing comes close.

This obviously isn’t by design though. If something isn’t working as intended since launch it deserves a little bit of attention. Efficiency and game design are often conflicting concepts but this is getting ridiculous. The builds are there, the gear is there, the classes are there – fix the content.