Guild Wars 2

I’ve been in groups where we’ve had zerk if not at least closer to meta guards lock down the bosses like seen in the video (they might have swapped on some knights for toughness)… that said I still love the videos, I don’t see why being gung ho has to be a requirement. I don’t see why we can’t all just agree that while it may not be optimal it brings a lot to the table and in a full group the loss isn’t so astronomical as to be out of the question unless you really enjoy the danger of full zerk and don’t value ease of play and consistency which is something it surely brings.

This isn’t about full groups tho, the thread’s about trios. In full groups having a healer/tank guardian is even more irrelevant, and even Brown admitted that last page. No point in bringing a tank guard when you can strip defiance and chain deep freezes + coordinate rock elementals and reflects :P

If you’re talking about pugs then well, let them do as they please nothing’s stopping them…

No one’s saying people can’t/shouldn’t do what they want to make runs easier on themselves, we’re saying that the claims that facetanking bosses in full zerk guardians isn’t possible is false, and that the stat combo clerics isn’t really necessary or best to take for what they say their intended outcomes/purposes are. Healing power scales really terribly and the attribute goes to waste, and thieves need to be moving constantly to optimize their DPS anyways so standing still at places like imbued shaman doesn’t make sense to me.

Purple Miku.7032:

This isn’t about full groups tho, the thread’s about trios. In full groups having a healer/tank guardian is even more irrelevant, and even Brown admitted that last page. No point in bringing a tank guard when you can strip defiance and chain deep freezes + coordinate rock elementals and reflects :P

Not every group brings Ele’s let alone multiples

Hey team!
You can only say “I can tank in zerk gear” so many times. I think it’s time to post some footage. I am genially curious, no kidding!

So far all the zerk “tanking” we’ve seen and experienced ourselves includes but not limited to:
- bugging Mossman wolves (makes fight completely irrelevant to me, plus you spend at least 5-10 min trying to bug them on the other side of the room)
- chaining ice bow freezes (duo/quadro icebow trivializes the fight and allows you to have the boss stunned at least 50% of the time)
- kiting around/dodging which again defeats the purpose of having a tank

The point of the build was to have boss close to 100% locked in one spot, locked on a tank who doesn’t have to dodge/move out of AOE. I would love to learn how that might be done in zerker gear (maybe we missing something and you can have more blocks in one build). So far zerker tanking on existing bosses comes down to lack of blocks, basically eventually you have to take some hits and zerker gear gonna kill you (hello, Mossman bear form).

Thank you for sharing duo ele video, its pretty impressive!
Plus it further proves the effectiveness of having a tank in low man from DPS perspective. Even with bugged wolves duo ele took 5:30 with lots of kiting and DPS loss. Just by adding one tank guard you can kill the boss legit with all wolves up right where he spawns in less than 3 min, I’m sure you can push the time to somewhat close to 2 min if you really maximize DPS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M-K3nWS2lQE&list=PLCxfgAjHhmmy0a29VtGeRpCK4ADb4SQTS&index=14

I am all for zerker meta myself (and zerker ele is my main). And honestly I was amazed how having a tank improves party DPS for those encounters where bosses actually mean something, don’t die in 5 sec and hit hard.

Is it possibly to tank in other gear? Yes, of course, you just need some toughness as was pointed out before.
Is it possible in zerk gear? Yes, it is possible with fair bit of moving/dodging. The thing is that moving/dodging was somewhat we tried to avoid. And fairly I wouldn’t call it a tank.

How about we call a zerker guard with mace/focus a hybrid tank and move on? Seems like we beating a dead horse here

Purple Miku.7032:

As you can see, when you spawn rock elemental he will maintain aggro the same way that the guard does. As long as you remain a certain distance from him, he will absolutely never stop attacking the rock elemental aside from the occasional dancing dagger throw, until that rock elemental dies.

Well there you have it, a “tank” guard can be easily replaced by an ele’s summoned elemental NPC.

Soooo……… why is this thread a thing again?

Because some people need to stroke their need for old school MMO trinity.

Because Rocky is an extremely intelligent tanker that will switch its target to a nearby wolf if you accidentally hit it —- Oh wait, I forgot that those wolves have been conveniently GLITCHED out of their aggro range so that they don’t chase and attack you – for a skillful smooth run!

Let’s see and compare the zerker guard footage with this cleric “shenanigan”, shan’t we? I’m genuinely interested in learning the new tricks to improve my bad guard skill as well. This comes with no sarcasms as I know a handful of people who can pull it off (Robyn for one) in a full group. Not sure about in low manned situations.

Edit: Further clarification of this glitching method will be explained in details by Purple Miku in the following post. This tactic is super helpful for those having troubles dealing with wolves as they can now only focus on killing Mossman alone. Inarguably much better than glitching Mossman under water as you can perform your full DPS rotation on land and achieve faster time.

Iris Ng.9845:

Because Rocky is an extremely intelligent tanker that will switch its target to a nearby wolf if you accidentally hit it —- Oh wait, I forgot that those wolves have been conveniently bugged out for a skillful smooth run!

Let’s see and compare the zerker guard footage with this cleric “shenanigan”, shan’t we? I’m genuinely interested in learning the new tricks to improve my bad guard skill as well. This comes with no sarcasms as I know a handful of people who can pull it off (Robyn for one) in a full group. Not sure about in low manned situations.

As someone who wishes to promote Skady’s trinity method in general play I will also have to defend the zerker anchor method as well due to well, me generally using that method in pugs

This can be easily done in mace focus anchor, taking retreat for an additional block and doing a backout + dodging back into him on dual axes. Wall of reflection on his mid line to stop axe throws.

Warriors do this pretty easily as well in mace+shield, x/sword or vice versa due the really short weapon cooldowns.

EDIT: Also engineers who bring net turret can serve this function even in a 6/6 grenadier/modified ammunition spec allowing them to eliminate wolves off the field the moment they spawn while keeping Mossman rooted.

I just want to thank Skady, Brown, and all the rest for providing all this information. I had my Guardian on the shelf basically but now I have some inspiration to break it out again.

Most of those posting here I would consider Elite (Not Elitists, as that has come to be a negative connotation). For those of us who are still doing lower level fractals (under 25) this kind of build will allow us to progress. My guild are just now starting to get into the Fractals. A couple of us are in our upper 30’s for level and we are teaching the rest how to play. We are still learning and what I have read here will go a long ways for us.

Thanks again!

Also what is this wolf bugging strat that I keep reading about. They are generally dead before they can do anything even in a trio format so I’ve never seen it.

IllegalChocolate.6938:

Also what is this wolf bugging strat that I keep reading about. They are generally dead before they can do anything even in a trio format so I’ve never seen it.

For soloing/duoing, it makes it much easier and less annoying to run in circles on the opposite end of the area until you stop seeing wolves spawn when he goes into stealth. Then when you run to the other side, it’ll be out of their aggro range.

But, you know, referring to everything that we don’t understand as “bugging” appears to be a fashion trend around here for some people (you not included because you were only asking what it is).

It’s as much of a bug as it is for Vahid in Arah P4 to stop spawning floras after the 5th one. Guess if you don’t kill him before he spawns the last one you’re bugging him too.

IllegalChocolate.6938:

Iris Ng.9845:

Because Rocky is an extremely intelligent tanker that will switch its target to a nearby wolf if you accidentally hit it —- Oh wait, I forgot that those wolves have been conveniently bugged out for a skillful smooth run!

Let’s see and compare the zerker guard footage with this cleric “shenanigan”, shan’t we? I’m genuinely interested in learning the new tricks to improve my bad guard skill as well. This comes with no sarcasms as I know a handful of people who can pull it off (Robyn for one) in a full group. Not sure about in low manned situations.

As someone who wishes to promote Skady’s trinity method in general play I will also have to defend the zerker anchor method as well due to well, me generally using that method in pugs

This can be easily done in mace focus anchor, taking retreat for an additional block and doing a backout + dodging back into him on dual axes. Wall of reflection on his mid line to stop axe throws.

Warriors do this pretty easily as well in mace+shield, x/sword or vice versa due the really short weapon cooldowns.

EDIT: Also engineers who bring net turret can serve this function even in a 6/6 grenadier/modified ammunition spec allowing them to eliminate wolves off the field the moment they spawn while keeping Mossman rooted.

I know the theory behind them alright, but I rarely see it put into practice in a casual setting. Even with all the nice theories about engineers and their potential, I play with some engineers I know. They ain’t bad, but most of the time their nades just miss the wolves due to the hectic kiting and running around.

In my trio pug group, it is always like this: If my friend has to swap to guardian, it is because people are dying of Dancing Dagger. If one has to swap to mesmer, it is because people die of random hits and spend most of the time down or try rezzing. If one has to swap to warrior, it is because of the lack of soft CC and melee anchor. Last but not least, if I had to ditch D/F for staff, it’s simply because wolves are not cleaved fast enough and more than often, they would block my deep freeze path.

But again, if everyone is already good at doing what they do then there would be no need to overextend and dedicate a specific tank role to make our life easier. There was one time I was a pug in a fractal run of a super famous guild. After we wiped a couple of times at Mai Trin, I was told that everyone was required to use skale venom and one of them readily swapped to his mesmer to assume the blocker role. It’s an effective tactic despite being somewhat cheap. Definitely nothing to be proud of but someone could call it playing smart. To each his own. Shrug

Purple Miku,

You have misunderstood what I said. Please let me clarify.

I never said you can’t do fotm trio with full zerk guardian. You can. I do it myself from time to time. I however find clerics to be more effective. I hate quoting myself, but if you read through my posts again, you’ll find that everything I say is “my opinion” and “my experiences.” Your opinions and experiences may differ. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I am not “spreading false information.”

I myself have never been in nor witnessed a fotm 50 trio that is smoother/faster with a berserker guardian.

This clerics build is simply one possible way to play the game that I find to be effective. No one is claiming that it’s the fastest.

I have tried “tanking” with full berserker gear. I don’t find it to be as effective.

My average trio run time in full berserker gear is much slower than cleric/zerk/zerk.

I’ve tried, and I have not been able to stack and eat laser walls in zerk trios. You end up having to kite around the room in order to stay alive.

In low man parties , I think berserker gear is significantly harder and in fact less effective than clerics gear. In my experience, the full party wipes + resets makes the average run time much longer.

In my opinion, the 25% damage is not worth the trade off of the massive heals you can provide to your team mates.

The only thing that I did claim is that:

2. A full berserker guardian can not pull off this “no-dodge” strategy. If someone out there can, please show me. I would love to learn. Seriously.

As you are well aware, the play style of a full zerk guardian in 3 man fotm is different than the clerics guardian presented in this thread. As you put it, “instead of avoiding dodging,” the encounter is “much more active and the fight is less stationary.” These are two different strategies. I am specifically referring to the “no dodge, minimal movement” strategy. I even put in a disclaimer that I would love to learn if someone can teach me.

Finally I never said clerics guardian is efficient. I have always maintained that it is effective. Efficient and effective are distinctly different.

Purple Miku.7032:

IllegalChocolate.6938:

Also what is this wolf bugging strat that I keep reading about. They are generally dead before they can do anything even in a trio format so I’ve never seen it.

For soloing/duoing, it makes it much easier and less annoying to run in circles on the opposite end of the area until you stop seeing wolves spawn when he goes into stealth. Then when you run to the other side, it’ll be out of their aggro range.

But, you know, referring to everything that we don’t understand as “bugging” appears to be a fashion trend around here for some people (you not included because you were only asking what it is).

It’s as much of a bug as it is for Vahid in Arah P4 to stop spawning floras after the 5th one. Guess if you don’t kill him before he spawns the last one you’re bugging him too.

My bad, let me fix it.

Purple Miku.7032:

For reference to show that a cleric guard isn’t needed to tank, here’s a video of Sesshi and I duoing Mossman on 50 with two staff eles:

http://www.twitch.tv/purpleishawt/c/6120798

..which is basically one of the most yolo sort of setups you can choose from. It was our third try, and I presume that provided we put effort into it it would be possible to do it in around 3 minutes.

I think the timer in this example is irrelevant. If you are going to spend 5 minutes kiting mossman to spawn the wolves, then that is part of the run time. You should include it. I know unofficial record rules don’t start the timer until you do damage to the boss, but in everyday casual runs, time is time.

Brown.8560:

The only thing that I did claim is that:

2. A full berserker guardian can not pull off this “no-dodge” strategy. If someone out there can, please show me. I would love to learn. Seriously.

As you are well aware, the play style of a full zerk guardian in 3 man fotm is different than the clerics guardian presented in this thread. As you put it, “instead of avoiding dodging,” the encounter is “much more active and the fight is less stationary.” These are two different strategies. I am specifically referring to the “no dodge, minimal movement” strategy. I even put in a disclaimer that I would love to learn if someone can teach me.

Finally I never said clerics guardian is efficient. I have always maintained that it is effective. Efficient and effective and distinctly different.

Fair enough, point proven – it was mostly from others then and not so much from you.

But I feel the need to point out that in the mossman videos in particular I’m noticing some dodges from both the guard and the people who aren’t in clerics. It involves tons of eating damage and standing around but it’s not devoid of it, and like I said in previous posts you can achieve basically the same results without clerics. Equipping tanky gear merely allows you to make more mistakes/alleviates the concern of you possibly messing up.

Also, I once again point out that if you have a thief in the group then standing still is a DPS loss for them. For staff ele it’s irrelevant whether or not the guard dodges or doesn’t dodge because all their attacks are aoe and will hit regardless. Warrior it’s different because of hundred blades but warrior DPS is irrelevant anyways.

Thanks for at least trying to be reasonable about the discussion though.

Purple Miku.7032:

But I feel the need to point out that in the mossman videos in particular I’m noticing some dodges from both the guard and the people who aren’t in clerics. It involves tons of eating damage and standing around but it’s not devoid of it, and like I said in previous posts you can achieve basically the same results without clerics. Equipping tanky gear merely allows you to make more mistakes/alleviates the concern of you possibly messing up.

1. Still debatable as we are waiting for someone to prove it with some nicely done footage.

Also, I once again point out that if you have a thief in the group then standing still is a DPS loss for them. For staff ele it’s irrelevant whether or not the guard dodges or doesn’t dodge because all their attacks are aoe and will hit regardless. Warrior it’s different because of hundred blades but warrior DPS is irrelevant anyways.

2. Care to explain about the thief’s DPS? If someone is holding the boss aggro in the front, the thief can just casually deal damage behind its back without the need to move at all. Or is it some trick that I miss?

Purple Miku.7032:

Healing power scales really terribly and the attribute goes to waste

I beg to differ.
http://puu.sh/gFwwt/f7db7877db.jpg

It’s a little bit trolly… but I want to lighten up the mood a little here.

Edit: I’m just going to add this edit here because it’s off topic and I don’t want to reply and derail the discussion. There’s no trickery or anything involved; it’s pretty straight forward. Anyone spending a little time reading the traits should be able to figure it out, but I’m not going to post the build because I REALLY don’t want run into it while pugging.

So I been asked to comment on this, ill just give my thoughts
I see ppl claiming that cleric can be efficient which could be true I guess in a trio run, but a low man run should be about challenge and fun, like someone mentioned before it’s basically a skill less autoattack fest while ur stationary, I dont see the appeal in that at all
About ‘bugging’ the wolves at mossman, I dont think someone who basically gets carried by tank gear/build can have a valid opinion on that

Brown.8560:

Purple Miku.7032:

Healing power scales really terribly and the attribute goes to waste

I beg to differ.
http://puu.sh/gFwwt/f7db7877db.jpg

It’s a little bit trolly… but I want to lighten up the mood a little here.

post 10k HPS on banner alone what.

Sesshi.2610:

A low man run should be about challenge and fun, like someone mentioned before it’s basically a skill less autoattack fest while ur stationary, I dont see the appeal in that at all.

What is challenging and fun is a matter of personal taste. That should not have any bearing on the validity of this build/strategy.

For the two dps team mates, the entire fractal run is significantly easier; that’s exactly the point of the clerics guardian. For the guardian however, the role is far from skill less. It is not simply sitting there doing nothing and face tanking all the hits. Despite not moving much, the role is actually very active. This is especially true when you are also paying attention to what you team mates are doing and providing blocks and heals when they need it (ice storm/meteor shower/might blast rotations/etc.)

Active in the sense of standing still and healing through the damage?

Tree.3916:

Active in the sense of standing still and healing through the damage?

Active as in a good amount of actions per minute. You are doing many things.

A good guardian is not sitting around waiting for your team mates to kill flame legion shaman. While kiting the ettin, the guardian is also providing wall (consecrated ground) to block the fireball attack, command shield, as well as aegis provided you can get close enough without pulling shaman aggro.

Sesshi.2610:

So I been asked to comment on this, ill just give my thoughts
I see ppl claiming that cleric can be efficient which could be true I guess in a trio run, but a low man run should be about challenge and fun, like someone mentioned before it’s basically a skill less autoattack fest while ur stationary, I dont see the appeal in that at all
About ‘bugging’ the wolves at mossman, I dont think someone who basically gets carried by tank gear/build can have a valid opinion on that

While I understand and agree with most of your comment, the last point makes me… eh?! With all due respect to you, I think you dismiss the point of his answer. Your challenge and fun is by fighting against Mossman himself, thus glitching the wolves. Their challenge and fun is tackling the encounter as it is – Mossman plus wolves – while sacrificing one’s own DPS for a reasonable time. I don’t think they conflict. What makes it conflicting is someone claims that they can achieve shorter time without cleric tanker yet omitting the majority of time required to glitch the wolves. As Brown said, time is time. To them, it is the time they spent on the whole encounter. To someone else, it’s focused only on the boss.

And I think it’s fair to ask, what is your opinion about trio zerker in Mossman’s encounter with wolves included?

This thread is literally just meta drones talking down people arguing against them and the other half trying to say “hey, doing this makes our runs a lot easier but we aren’t trying to say it’s more efficient”.

Can everyone just like

step back

chill

and for certain individuals to stop shoving their opinions down peoples’ throats when neither side will budge on the topic

also, wtb cleric and zergburger trio speed kill footage to put the issue to rest

considering the number of revelations i’ve had playing this game I don’t even see the point in dismissing things anymore, this just reminds me of when people dismissed phalanx strength, then a few rT guys tried it, dub told me to try it and then I told some people and said hey this is actually really good might stacking. and whaddaya know, when people stopped seeing red and actually thinking about what was being proposed to them (PS warrior builds) they realised “this isn’t actually that bad”.

Brown.8560:

Purple Miku.7032:

Healing power scales really terribly and the attribute goes to waste

I beg to differ.
http://puu.sh/gFwwt/f7db7877db.jpg

It’s a little bit trolly… but I want to lighten up the mood a little here.

Edit: I’m just going to add this edit here because it’s off topic and I don’t want to reply and derail the discussion. There’s no trickery or anything involved; it’s pretty straight forward. Anyone spending a little time reading the traits should be able to figure it out, but I’m not going to post the build because I REALLY don’t want run into it while pugging.

I know it’s off topic but…

I’ve seen it in solo Q. That healing banner build is oddly effective in sPvP and the person can kite 1v3 quite well. Outside of PvP, it would give me a stroke if I ever run into it.

Purple Miku.7032:

But I feel the need to point out that in the mossman videos in particular I’m noticing some dodges from both the guard and the people who aren’t in clerics. It involves tons of eating damage and standing around but it’s not devoid of it.

Yep. You are correct. It’s not completely devoid of dodges. It’s just something I strive for. When I run this build, I frequently think to myself, “aw kitten, I have to dodge.” Just like how you strive to maintain fury/25 might/perfect dps rotations with zerker builds, the goal here is to see if you can never dodge. You strive for it, but it’s hard to do. Mossman’s gouge attack is a double hit. If done properly, you can block it with shelter/shield of wrath/renewed focus. I’m not good enough yet to always have those available when gouge happens. It’s easier when your team mates help blind the wolves, but sometimes we run with team comps that don’t provide that much blind and it can get pretty sketchy. So I end up mashing my keyboard for blocks which ultimately leads me to “aw kitten, I have to dodge.”

I should point out that for many non-tank encounters, I dodge frequently to keep my team mates health 90+% (selfless daring trait). This is mostly for non-boss parts of fractals, e.g. siege weapons, trash mobs, etc.

maha.7902:

This thread is literally just meta drones talking down people arguing against them and the other half trying to say “hey, doing this makes our runs a lot easier but we aren’t trying to say it’s more efficient”.

Can everyone just like

step back

chill

Actually the issue is coming from them claiming clerics is more efficient in trios. :P

Easier yes. Efficient i dont think so. Anchoring might be more efficient. But not in clerics.

@Iris
Thief gets more damage from moving because they should be using seaweed salad or experimental remnants. I think thats what Miku is referring to.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Experimental_Remnant

I don’t “think” so is the key word here.

This is why I’ve constantly been asking for tryhard boss trio videos in both standard meta setups and the two glass + one cleric guard and wanting to see the difference.

But people would rather froth at the mouth instead of trying to prove their side of the argument is right, and it’s just boring to read.

An open mind is all I’m asking, otherwise we’d still be back in the stone age of 4 warriors 1 mesmer, and thinking warrior axe was better DPS because “it just is” rather than people bothering to actually confirm it. Kind of blows my mind it took as long as it did for people to even do math on that.

I understand that theifs melee and I ( engi ) range, although I also use seaweed salad and was able to freely keep it up and move side to side during my rotation while skady keeped mossman busy during our trio.

( I feel the need to say this was with the first run I did with them and this " new " strat, I also was alittle scaried cause I knew she was recording and I wanted to maintain the rotation in a atemped to look good. )

maha.7902:

I don’t “think” so is the key word here.

This is why I’ve constantly been asking for tryhard boss trio videos in both standard meta setups and the two glass + one cleric guard and wanting to see the difference.

But people would rather froth at the mouth instead of trying to prove their side of the argument is right, and it’s just boring to read.

An open mind is all I’m asking, otherwise we’d still be back in the stone age of 4 warriors 1 mesmer, and thinking warrior axe was better DPS because “it just is” rather than people bothering to actually confirm it. Kind of blows my mind it took as long as it did for people to even do math on that.

Read what i said again. I said anchoring might be efficient. But not in clerics. I have a perfectly open mind which is why im willing to entertain that having an anchor might be more efficient. But a full clerics anchor is wasting so many stats.

spoj.9672:

maha.7902:

I don’t “think” so is the key word here.

This is why I’ve constantly been asking for tryhard boss trio videos in both standard meta setups and the two glass + one cleric guard and wanting to see the difference.

But people would rather froth at the mouth instead of trying to prove their side of the argument is right, and it’s just boring to read.

An open mind is all I’m asking, otherwise we’d still be back in the stone age of 4 warriors 1 mesmer, and thinking warrior axe was better DPS because “it just is” rather than people bothering to actually confirm it. Kind of blows my mind it took as long as it did for people to even do math on that.

Read what i said again. I said anchoring might be efficient. But not in clerics. I have a perfectly open mind which is why im willing to entertain that having an anchor might be more efficient. But a full clerics anchor is wasting so many stats.

Pretty much this. No real reason why you’d pick Clerics over Knights or Soldiers other than being enamored with heals which aren’t even that good.

I’m still not interested in forming an opinion until I see a video comparison of at the very least, meta vs anchor and then maybe defensive anchor versus offensive anchor to see if the heals would actually be relevant at all or not, or if it would just be better to stick knights on.

maha.7902:

This is why I’ve constantly been asking for tryhard boss trio videos in both standard meta setups and the two glass + one cleric guard and wanting to see the difference.

On one hand, I’d really like to see this video because I myself can not do it, and I’d like to learn. On the other hand, I don’t need video proof of anything. It was never meant to challenge the meta (I’m speaking solely for myself here, not sure where others in this discussion stand). With so many good players out there, I’m 100% certain someone can do it faster. I’m just a clerics casual. Seriously, that’s my rank in guild.

I’ve been messing around with clerics builds (every class) for two years now. I never talk about it publicly because I’m too chicken to see it get torn apart by the community. But since I introduced the build to Skady, I feel compelled to support her. She’s been one of the most ardent adopters; she even made videos!

So here we are.

Yes it was nothing against you. It was simply your choice of words in a few cases. You implied it was more efficient for trios. Thats not really the best word for it. Consistant or safe would be fine.

Iris Ng.9845:

Because Rocky is an extremely intelligent tanker that will switch its target to a nearby wolf if you accidentally hit it —- Oh wait, I forgot that those wolves have been conveniently GLITCHED out of their aggro range so that they don’t chase and attack you – for a skillful smooth run!

Let’s see and compare the zerker guard footage with this cleric “shenanigan”, shan’t we? I’m genuinely interested in learning the new tricks to improve my bad guard skill as well. This comes with no sarcasms as I know a handful of people who can pull it off (Robyn for one) in a full group. Not sure about in low manned situations.

Edit: Further clarification of this glitching method will be explained in details by Purple Miku in the following post. This tactic is super helpful for those having troubles dealing with wolves as they can now only focus on killing Mossman alone. Inarguably much better than glitching Mossman under water as you can perform your full DPS rotation on land and achieve faster time.

Summons attack enemies that you have targeted and use an auto attack on. They won’t initially agro if you don’t use a 1 skill. You don’t have to hit the enemy with it. Try summoning one and using a melee attack. It’ll head out to attack your target.

Their AI is kind of weird but once you figure it out, it’s easy to work with.

spoj.9672:

maha.7902:

This thread is literally just meta drones talking down people arguing against them and the other half trying to say “hey, doing this makes our runs a lot easier but we aren’t trying to say it’s more efficient”.

Can everyone just like

step back

chill

Actually the issue is coming from them claiming clerics is more efficient in trios. :P

Easier yes. Efficient i dont think so. Anchoring might be more efficient. But not in clerics.

@Iris
Thief gets more damage from moving because they should be using seaweed salad or experimental remnants. I think thats what Miku is referring to.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Experimental_Remnant

.__."

But thief can just strafe left and right a little and still behind the back of the boss right? < I refer to this as Sandy’s famous swishy-swashy movement :p >. It’s not like thief is always standing still, not if they already choose to use such a specialty food.

So are there any other encounters in game that you can think of where the party would benefit from having the boss stand still and face off with the “anchor/tank/cleric guard/whatever”.

Because even if you manage to maintain aggro (and that’s a big IF, as can be seen from your own video) I doubt that creating an entire build around completing a single encounter with a few less dodges/active play is in any way “efficient”.

Also I’m interested in seeing the difference in time between “bugging” the wolves with a 3 man zerk group then killing versus a 3 man group where 1/3 of the party contributes nothing to damage, but that saves time on not “bugging” the wolves.

Enko.6123:

Iris Ng.9845:

Because Rocky is an extremely intelligent tanker that will switch its target to a nearby wolf if you accidentally hit it —- Oh wait, I forgot that those wolves have been conveniently GLITCHED out of their aggro range so that they don’t chase and attack you – for a skillful smooth run!

Let’s see and compare the zerker guard footage with this cleric “shenanigan”, shan’t we? I’m genuinely interested in learning the new tricks to improve my bad guard skill as well. This comes with no sarcasms as I know a handful of people who can pull it off (Robyn for one) in a full group. Not sure about in low manned situations.

Edit: Further clarification of this glitching method will be explained in details by Purple Miku in the following post. This tactic is super helpful for those having troubles dealing with wolves as they can now only focus on killing Mossman alone. Inarguably much better than glitching Mossman under water as you can perform your full DPS rotation on land and achieve faster time.

Summons attack enemies that you have targeted and use an auto attack on. They won’t initially agro if you don’t use a 1 skill. You don’t have to hit the enemy with it. Try summoning one and using a melee attack. It’ll head out to attack your target.

Their AI is kind of weird but once you figure it out, it’s easy to work with.

Hey Enko, the problem always happens when Mossman goes into stealth and Rocky’s aggro resets. He either returns back to me or runs to a random target which coincidentally gets cleaved in my AoE. The reason I prefer Rocky to stay put and close to Mossman at all cost is that Mossman will promptly reveal himself as soon as he can hit a target from stealth. However, if Rocky runs around chasing butterfly then it is more likely that Mossman will teleport to players and gouge them or simply use Dancing Daggers while in stealth.

Lorgus.6148:

So are there any other encounters in game that you can think of where the party would benefit from having the boss stand still and face off with the “anchor/tank/cleric guard/whatever”.

Svanirgandr is the first coming to my mind. Then some of the HotW bosses can be good candidates. Like the one that spawns a cone of geysers which knock people down constantly.

spoj.9672:

It was simply your choice of words in a few cases. You implied it was more efficient for trios.

I feel like a broken record quoting myself over and over again.

Brown.8560:

Finally I never said clerics guardian is efficient. I have always maintained that it is effective. Efficient and effective are distinctly different.

I never said it was efficient. Not once.

I said it was effective. We get 4 minute mossman with strangers that have never done trio’s before. We can complete fotm 50 with any class comp (except mesmer) even unpopular classes such as rangers/necros/engies in a smooth timely fashion. Based on this, I think it’s hard for anyone to argue that a clerics guardian is ineffective.

Lorgus.6148:

So are there any other encounters in game that you can think of where the party would benefit from having the boss stand still and face off with the “anchor/tank/cleric guard/whatever”.

Because even if you manage to maintain aggro (and that’s a big IF, as can be seen from your own video) I doubt that creating an entire build around completing a single encounter with a few less dodges/active play is in any way “efficient”.

I have found the tank build to be pretty good against the butcher in HotW path 1.

The build was not created around a single encounter. Tanking is only half the build. Healing is the other half. I think it’s good for the entirety of fractals (except Svanir boss).

Iris Ng.9845:

Enko.6123:

Iris Ng.9845:

Because Rocky is an extremely intelligent tanker that will switch its target to a nearby wolf if you accidentally hit it —- Oh wait, I forgot that those wolves have been conveniently GLITCHED out of their aggro range so that they don’t chase and attack you – for a skillful smooth run!

Let’s see and compare the zerker guard footage with this cleric “shenanigan”, shan’t we? I’m genuinely interested in learning the new tricks to improve my bad guard skill as well. This comes with no sarcasms as I know a handful of people who can pull it off (Robyn for one) in a full group. Not sure about in low manned situations.

Edit: Further clarification of this glitching method will be explained in details by Purple Miku in the following post. This tactic is super helpful for those having troubles dealing with wolves as they can now only focus on killing Mossman alone. Inarguably much better than glitching Mossman under water as you can perform your full DPS rotation on land and achieve faster time.

Summons attack enemies that you have targeted and use an auto attack on. They won’t initially agro if you don’t use a 1 skill. You don’t have to hit the enemy with it. Try summoning one and using a melee attack. It’ll head out to attack your target.

Their AI is kind of weird but once you figure it out, it’s easy to work with.

Hey Enko, the problem always happens when Mossman goes into stealth and Rocky’s aggro resets. He either returns back to me or runs to a random target which coincidentally gets cleaved in my AoE. The reason I prefer Rocky to stay put and close to Mossman at all cost is that Mossman will promptly reveal himself as soon as he can hit a target from stealth. However, if Rocky runs around chasing butterfly then it is more likely that Mossman will teleport to players and gouge them or simply use Dancing Daggers while in stealth.

After I summon Rocky, I usually just stay within range. I haven’t really had an issue with Rocky breaking off of him.

I misspoke earlier. I meant use an auto attack that won’t hit like a melee attack so you can see that Rocky will engage without hitting your target. Using targeted skills will cause him to go after your target. You can target what you want Rocky to engage on and cast ground based AoEs and he won’t switch.

As for Rocky breaking off when Mossman stealths, you’ll just need to target Mossman when he comes out and use a targeted attack to have Rocky re engage. If you’re having a problem with Rocky breaking off to hit the wolves, don’t have the wolves targeted and have your lava fonts and cleave damage hit them.

Brown.8560:

Lorgus.6148:

So are there any other encounters in game that you can think of where the party would benefit from having the boss stand still and face off with the “anchor/tank/cleric guard/whatever”.

Because even if you manage to maintain aggro (and that’s a big IF, as can be seen from your own video) I doubt that creating an entire build around completing a single encounter with a few less dodges/active play is in any way “efficient”.

I have found the tank build to be pretty good against the butcher in HotW path 1.

The build was not creating around a single encounter. Tanking is only half the build. Healing is the other half. I think it’s good for the entirety of fractals (except Svanir boss).

Tanking and healing are both aspects of the build that are pretty useless in the majority of fractal encounters. Think about it: how much of fractals is occupied by these heavy-hitting boss encounters(so far only mossman has been mentioned, though I suppose this could make mai trin easier as well) and how much is clearing trash mobs: ascalon vets, dredge moles, cliffside cultists, snowblind(have fun trying to hold aggro of the elemental source), uncategorized harpies, volcanic trash + elementals.

Overall it seems silly to take a cleric guard over something like a thief, which can bring huge damage to the bossfights as well as contributing to survival (with blinds) while clearing all the trash that composes most fractal runs.

Lorgus.6148:

Tanking and healing are pretty useless in the majority of fractal encounters.

I am going to disagree with you on this one. I’m not quite sure what to say other than that I have found it to be useful in my runs. Feel free to run whatever other build/class you prefer.

Brown.8560:

spoj.9672:

Yes it was nothing against you. It was simply your choice of words in a few cases. You implied it was more efficient for trios. Thats not really the best word for it. Consistant or safe would be fine.

I feel like a broken record quoting myself over and over again.

Brown.8560:

Finally I never said clerics guardian is efficient. I have always maintained that it is effective. Efficient and effective are distinctly different.

I never said it was efficient. Not once.

I said it was effective. We get 4 minute mossman with strangers that have never done trio’s before. We can complete fotm 50 with any class comp (except mesmer) even unpopular classes such as rangers/necros/engies in a smooth timely fashion. Based on this, I think it’s hard for anyone to argue that a clerics guardian is ineffective.

My apologies. But i wasnt saying you said it directly and i wasnt necessarily referring to you. Skady mentioned it. And the whole arguement came from that.

Why no mesmer? Mesmers are actually really good for mossman if you need some extra defence.

To be fair isn’t efficiency a representation of both time and effort. I can’t help but feel that the connotation of efficiency within GW2 has completely abandoned the effort part of it. Not that it’s totally wrong to do so, quality of a players skill will vary the effort required, but it’s still a factor.

Personally I would call this setup pretty efficient.

Not optimal, just it seems pretty efficient to me when you actually factor in effort. Not too huge a loss in time, but a pretty substantial decrease in the amount of effort required.

Most people would consider efficient to mean optimal or close to optimal in terms of time. Obviously you can define it differently if you choose. “This build is really efficient at making this fight faceroll” for example.

Mossman isn’t the best example of where healing is useful (although the wolf adds are more relevant then people are giving them credit.) But take a fight like the end boss of char fractal, with his perma unstrippable retal. Frizz where you eat lazer walls to brute force it.

And let’s be careful not to shift the goal posts. At first people were saying “you loose too much damage, it’s slower then full zerk”, and now I hear “trios are for fun and challenge anyway, afk 111 dps is boring”. which is kind of….ironic honestly when you think about what we tell people who complain about stacking for trash mobs.

I agree that we need to table the discussion until we see some evidence from the opposition. If you pre-spawn the wolves include that in the kill time, because the point is about overall run efficiency, not isolated kills. Ideally show a full run taking less than an hour. I do believe its possible, but I think its the only fair way forward at this point. Just saying “it should” “i think” etc over and over is just talking in circles.

fixin’ forum bugs