Guild Wars 2

Lilith Ajit.6173:

K.

I’m not going to argue with you. I see no reason to. You obviously know everything there is to know about this sub forum.

I’ll go back to writing up FAQ and guides and teaching newbies because obviously nothing we say here is going to be constructive.

Sorry, I didn’t mean to come off like that.

I am not talking about every poster in the subforum, nor every thread in the subforum.

There are indeed some good constructive threads in here. (this one for example.) I just wanted to adress some of the unconstructive responses that seem to come up often.

Perhaps I got carried away with my frustrations a bit, ironically.

Edit: Oh and your FAQ is excellent.

I understand you are trying to be productive, Witch~ People can, admittedly, be a bit snippy in here (but in my opinion, it is still 100x more pleasant than even taking a look into the PvP forum, for example). But please keep in mind that the problems with dev interaction are very serious. Take, for example, the Fractured! update, which screwed over the progress of a significant number of people (the PR80 folks) with zero compensation. The update proceeded to introduce new bugs, make Dredge even worse, and implemented literally zero of the promised improvements (weapon skin boxes, leaderboard, etc.).

Nike, Lilith, and others, posted very constructive and thoughtful posts about these shortcomings in the Fractured! forum, and here— in fact, they were instructed to post them to the Fractured! forum by the CC folks. And there were exactly zero responses, and then the forum became archived. If the devs cannot respond once, even in a living story forum dedicated to feedback on fractals, can we really expect them to listen to feedback here? If annotated videos and bug reports about serious Arah/AC/whatever else exploits are sent to them months ago and the exploits persist, what does that say about their priorities?

So yes, the feeling is a little bit on the “lol” side here whenever people discuss how the game “should” be. We see posts here every week on stacking, skipping, selling paths, the zerker meta (ok, at least that has moved to Profession Balance now), and people seem very interested in spinning their wheels describing how they would like the game to play. Sometimes these posts can make good points about potential improvements that could make the game more interesting for everyone, but in the end…

All is vain. And people get tired copying/pasting the same response, to the same thread, for month on month. You will notice, though, that when people ask about how the game actually is instead of dreaming dreams we have seen to be impossible, the forum is incredibly helpful. The many, many threads about Dungeon Mentors, Lupi how-to’s, tips for newbies coming for help, demonstrate this very well, I think.

Yes, if we want things for dungeons to improve first we have to in a constructive way request for a dungeon team to be formed, and if we actually get one play nice.

Someone up top in Anet or NCsoft decided that LW is the way to go and that it’s ok to leave a large portion of the game and it’s players unattended, not Living really. The end game content, dungeons and fractals are in my opinion rife with bugs, actual exploits, and it’s getting stale. Dungeons for the most part are fine, but how about a new one or a hard mode or a 4th and 5th path? Removing a path for example and replacing it with a new one that is related to a story that is now a couple of months away from ending is not a good answer to this problem. Six months from now, will people running the Aether path wonder who the heck this giant red hologram is? I would have to say yes and no one will really care.

Yeah maxinion, I can agree with that.

My issue was with the responses I mentioned in particular. Those which typically refer to thoughts about the future.

The frustration about not getting any response at all on important matters is completely justified. I’m just trying to point out that many of the remarks are made just out of frustration, and not because they are a good argument.

Perhaps we should try and figure out a way to get the devs to respond to some key issues?

We could try and come up with a long list of issues that need fixing and a bunch of things that need further thought. Formulate them in a way so that it is open to discussion yet not too vague to work with.

Most of the pressing issues have been mentioned months or even over a year ago and are obvious to most of us but not clear to anyone looking at the first page of the dungeon section.

All this to make it easier for devs to spot the issues (or more likely: to be reminded of them). Links to videos and screenshots to show them what is going on etc.

Just bundling everything together for the benefit of all.

I guess we should pose the question of the effectiveness of such a thing on the CDI – evaluation thread tomorrow.

Witch, I think the only thing we can do is hope for e next CDI to be on dungeons and fractals, otherwise we can never have a guaranteed discussion.

Believe me, when we have a CC, a developer, or anyone red talk to us we immediately get our attitudes on track. It’s not like the second we have a CDI dedicated to our favorite part of the game that we will use it to have a huge argument. We just want to be heard. We thought we would be heard during Fractured! But it turned out that that wasn’t going to happen.

The issue I see with the CDI is that we are going to be talking there, but then we are also going to have all of these other folks who accuse us daily of exploits and being bad players and even going so far as to say we are bad people, and I know at least I am afraid that the CDI is going to be about how stacking shouldn’t be possible because spider queen blah blah and that dungeon sellers should be banned, and the real issues are going to go to the wayside because the actual dungeon runners won’t be able to out yell the others who just… Don’t even run the dungeons. That’s my fear.

TurtleDragon.3108:

Yes, wanting to be efficient and stack is evil. We should all make our dungeon runs take as long as possible to enhance the dungeon crawling experience.

Efficiency isn’t bad.

Easy and efficient is bad together. It makes a terrible gameplay and experience.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Witch, I think the only thing we can do is hope for e next CDI to be on dungeons and fractals, otherwise we can never have a guaranteed discussion.

Believe me, when we have a CC, a developer, or anyone red talk to us we immediately get our attitudes on track. It’s not like the second we have a CDI dedicated to our favorite part of the game that we will use it to have a huge argument. We just want to be heard. We thought we would be heard during Fractured! But it turned out that that wasn’t going to happen.

The issue I see with the CDI is that we are going to be talking there, but then we are also going to have all of these other folks who accuse us daily of exploits and being bad players and even going so far as to say we are bad people, and I know at least I am afraid that the CDI is going to be about how stacking shouldn’t be possible because spider queen blah blah and that dungeon sellers should be banned, and the real issues are going to go to the wayside because the actual dungeon runners won’t be able to out yell the others who just… Don’t even run the dungeons. That’s my fear.

I was surprised by the civil approach most people had to the last CDI so I am a bit more hopeful than that. I guess the red helps indeed.

As for being outyelled… well written posts more often get a dev response in the CDI. Making sense and being polite is probably the best way to get our ideas in the spotlight. In the end it is arenanet and not the loud poster that decides what will happen. (Which is sometimes unfortunate I guess)

runeblade.7514:

TurtleDragon.3108:

Yes, wanting to be efficient and stack is evil. We should all make our dungeon runs take as long as possible to enhance the dungeon crawling experience.

Efficiency isn’t bad.

Easy and efficient is bad together. It makes a terrible gameplay and experience.

Runeblade, you state that like it is fact, but that is an opinion. Because, from my experience, it has made my gameplaying experience fun and not drag on forever.