Guild Wars 2

/eats a can of mushrooms in the meantime

DigitalKirin.9714:

oilstorm.1748:

Right, ignore my claims.

Getting into this conversation late, sorry. What were your claims? (In a nutshell would be great, thanks!)

This:

Claim 1: I’m the best Internet troll there is because google.

Claim 2: Lilith is a bad physicist

Claim 3: staff guardians are good and videos showing it are not good enough and are anecdotal

Claim 2 is correct though.

Bottom line is:
Staff on a guard is in general for utility. It should not be your primary dps weapon of choice. It is very good weapon for zerg contents (which Anet just loves to its core) and for TA (but again, not as a primary).

DigitalKirin.9714:

oilstorm.1748:

Right, ignore my claims.

Getting into this conversation late, sorry. What were your claims? (In a nutshell would be great, thanks!)

He claims that he has never been slowed down by a staff guardian, I think (that kill times from a staff guard can be similar as with another type of guard).

In the “everything dies from FGS in 2 hits” limit, that’s of course correct and reasonable. In the case of actual content and real, non-trivialized fights (like Obal’s solos) it is patently false.

Ah, I sure love the trash- ahem, dungeon subforum.

FenrirSlakt.3692:

Ah, I sure love the trash- ahem, dungeon subforum.

Ah yes. But you contribute to its beauty and make it art, dear Fenrir.

Thinking a bit more, there was one assumption I was making— that using either weaponset, the guard would be more or less attacking with the same consistency, and with good rotations. If you have the sword guard kiting around like a bad, obviously that is going to lower the DPS and make them indistinguishable. If the rest of the party is bads and keeping DPS super low/sporadic, than it’s even more likely to be indistinguishable.

Maybe this is the “situation” he’s talking about? In which case, OK, bads are bads and pugs are pugs and all bets are off.

oilstorm.1748:

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Nice try. Trig sub was so calc 2. Kitty I’m a physicist.

Whaaaa…. Omg ha ha ha! Right, you are a physicist… Either you are the worst I have ever seen, or you are still getting your degree as one. Seriously, what physicist, when asked for a proof, hands over youtube videos?

One who believes a simple argument should get a simple response. You can’t have done the math, read any of the relevant threads, or tried it out, so the simplest answer is to show what it looks like.

Wiki makes the math easy; this doesn’t require calculus or linear algebra or the like. (Before you start, my degree was in math, but I do software now, so it’s been almost 20 years since I had actual reason to use any of the math I studied (analysis). Anyway, this is irrelevant to the question.)

Staff AA vs 1 target:

0.6 / 1s => 0.6 per sec

1-h Sword AA vs 1 target:

0.8 + 0.8 + 1.5 / 2.4s => ~1.29 per sec

A 2x increase in damage vs a single target seems a fair argument.

You could argue that someone using staff efficiently would mix in other skills. Staff 2 has a better coefficient, when it doesn’t get stuck in geometry and go through the 15s CD. Staff 3 adds damage, but screws up might stacking since it’s a light field. Staff 4 is better than no might stacking … but duration on the might sucks and it means you’re not attacking for several seconds. And if you’re including all the other skills, you have to include some additional skills for 1h sword and your 2nd weapon.

I used to use staff in dungeon more often; I don’t think it’s so horrible when clearing trash. But it’s not as much DPS as other weapons, and aside from places where staff 5 is important CC or you need swiftness from staff 3 … it’s hard to justify for efficiency.

For fun — sure, I could see that argument. But not for efficiency.

Azreell.1568:

Emanuel.9781:

The answer is below.

GW2 has become such a toxic player base.

And you wonder why people are continually leaving this game….

They do? I thought everyone knew people are leaving because there’s nothing to do but farm the same min-max gold earning content over and over.

why is this -still- going.
And yaki…there’s an entire game to play. I really do suggest you try starting over with another character. I know you worked hard to get to lvl 80 and enjoyed it…so enjoy it again, we have an entire game to play, don’t just play -one- part of it.

and wow…actual MATH…it misses the point but, actual MATH. Congrates man, I like that kind of proof….and yet it kind of misses the point. Staff guardians arent about DPS, so having a lower DPS is expected.
I think it be a wiser idea to push this thread to a better question. Lets not ask how to push people to stop being staff guardians based on DPS, lets instead discuss ways to -use- said guardians to their fullest. What can staff guards do, and what can you do with those powers. Try to discuss something besides DPs….sadly I know nothing about the staff guardian nor have time to research…so i cant help there. Sorry.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

I’ve run 2 staves, a bifrost skin, and a monsoon skin. I weapon swap from staff…. To staff!

I’ve always been sad that my warrior can’t use a staff. Nor a torch.

VideoGamermike.5813:

lets instead discuss ways to -use- said guardians to their fullest. What can staff guards do, and what can you do with those powers.

In case you missed it, we’ve already found the best thing you can do with staff guardians: Ridicule them on the GW2 subforum where competent people meet, the dungeon forum. There’s nothing else remotely useful on them.

The problem, Mike, is that everything staff guard can do, someone else can do better. All it “brings” is 12 short duration might stacks, which are easily outclassed by ele, engi, and warrior sources of might. They give a bit of swiftness, so staff is a useful running weapon, but that’s it.

Reflects, condi clear, stability, aegis— the other things staff guards can do which are useful— can be done just as well with full dps weapons like sword, great sword, or hammer.

VideoGamermike.5813:

I think it be a wiser idea to push this thread to a better question. Lets not ask how to push people to stop being staff guardians based on DPS, lets instead discuss ways to -use- said guardians to their fullest. What can staff guards do, and what can you do with those powers. Try to discuss something besides DPs….sadly I know nothing about the staff guardian nor have time to research…so i cant help there. Sorry.

That’s kind of already been covered, but here is a run down:

Skill 1: wide arc, hits up to five targets, does very little damage wise. Reasonable when there are large numbers of mobs, but there are probably better options. Terrible for three or less targets. Dungeon uses: clearing volatile blooms.

Skill 2: sends out an orb of light which damages enemies and heals allies. Can be exploded. Too little damage or healing on pass through to be worthwhile. I’ve always had trouble detonating it, I’m not sure if that’s because of latency from Australia, but again the numbers are small. Dungeon uses: I honestly can’t think of any where this is worthwhile, it’s really a tool for WvW.

Skill 3: Places a symbol which grants swiftness to allies and does an OK amount of damage to enemies. This is genuinely useful when running through trash. Against a single boss it may be occasionally a nice damage supplement unless you are relying on blasting fire fields for might, in which case it will interfere.

Skill 4: pump it for 12 stacks of might. Genuinely useful.

Skill 5: Line of warding. You shall not pass! Unless you’re a boss in which case you walk right over it. Not quite as useful as you might think running past trash, useless in a boss battle except maybe the TA f/u path.

So, against a boss what do we get to compensate us for low damage? We get speed , some hard to control heals, might and 5 targets. And the ability to fight at range.

Let’s compare to other weapons.

Scepter focus: also range. Superior damage, but on a single target, a blind, three blocks and a blast finisher.

Greatsword: superior damage, but against three targets, a blind and surprisingly better utility against trash that might pop up.

Mace torch: nobody likes this combo, but it offers superior damage, most of its skills to more targets than staff, superior healing, more easily controlled and powerful condition cleansing, a block and a little bit of range which can be used effectively against bosses like the Butcher. This maligned combo is far better than staff against a boss.

Sword focus: superior damage, two blinds, three blocks and a blast finish.

You are right that it is also about utility, but the utility of the staff is geared towards running through mobs and facing large numbers of enemies. All it brings of substance against a boss to make up for its lack of power is might. Any other sensible weapon style is superior in terms of utility as well as damage. I was going to say except for mace/shield, but I think that even this might be better.

Tl;dr staff has great utility for WvW, but not really for a boss.

VideoGamermike.5813:

why is this -still- going.
And yaki…there’s an entire game to play. I really do suggest you try starting over with another character. I know you worked hard to get to lvl 80 and enjoyed it…so enjoy it again, we have an entire game to play, don’t just play -one- part of it.

and wow…actual MATH…it misses the point but, actual MATH. Congrates man, I like that kind of proof….and yet it kind of misses the point. Staff guardians arent about DPS, so having a lower DPS is expected.
I think it be a wiser idea to push this thread to a better question. Lets not ask how to push people to stop being staff guardians based on DPS, lets instead discuss ways to -use- said guardians to their fullest. What can staff guards do, and what can you do with those powers. Try to discuss something besides DPs….sadly I know nothing about the staff guardian nor have time to research…so i cant help there. Sorry.

Staff as a weapon in PvE Dungeon is weak in all areas. Support, defensive, and offensive so iono what you are trying to get at. Offensively staff ratios are lower than their 2H counter parts (GS and Hammer). Factoring attack speed staff dps is lacking compared to GS or Hammer. Staff support are heal and the low duration might which are both on 20s base CD. Healing is not good for various reasons posted around these forums. Pretty much you are left with only one staff benefit and that is the low duration might stack. If you have Eles or PS Warriors then isn’t that useful like how high duration might is replaced by low duration. On top of that it looks decent only when you go Staff might -swap→ GS and camp GS. If you go from GS → Staff then you are losing too much in support, defense, and offense. Symbol wise, staff has the worse combat symbol. Swiftness versus Retal which isn’t great but at least it does something and Protection on Hammer which is awesome. For control staff isn’t that good. All you have is warding but no way to move or reposition mobs like you do on GS (which does a decent amount of damage too) and Hammer which has immobilize for things like Tar Elemental in Arah and KB + Warding. On top of that Hammer and GS has finishers where Staff doesn’t. This is extremely useful. GS symbol + whirl = condition removal. And you have two skills that whirl (#2, #5). Hammer has a blast finisher which is useful in fractals where you can blast fields to help your team. Frost field => frost aura => -10% dmg reduction on top of protection boon. Or water field blast. Then you have GS #3 which AoE blinds + apply vulnerability through your traits which helps your team avoid damage and dish out more damage. Even if you eliminate dps as a means of comparison staff isn’t that good compared to Hammer or GS since they offer much more control, defensive, and support abilities. There is no reason to use staff you might as well go GS + Hammer.

I tried something different that also worked!

I took my phalanx warrior. A guard pinged Empower as we pinged our banners. In turn, I pinged my Strength runes and said that staff is not necessary in this setup (1 staff/blast ele, 3 wars of which 1 phalanx, 1 guard). He switched and didn’t use his staff at all for the whole three paths !

I was impressed!

Fror.2163:

I tried something different that also worked!

I took my phalanx warrior. A guard pinged Empower as we pinged our banners. In turn, I pinged my Strength runes and said that staff is not necessary in this setup (1 staff/blast ele, 3 wars of which 1 phalanx, 1 guard). He switched and didn’t use his staff at all for the whole three paths !

I was impressed!

So you have to spend 70+ gold to achieve such improvement, because common sense and logic is not enough?

I’m a hoarder, I had those runes before they became so expensive. Also I got several thousands of gold in bank, so I could offer me those and not care at all. Anything else?

TA- 80guard pretty much every weapon was legendary. What does he use? Sure for running but his damage uptime was horrible. he had to run away numerous times from a fight because he ran out of blocks. I mention s/f that he could stay in the battle longer and get flamed. Mention that was only a suggestion. tells me i should be running s/f as an ele. I mention there are give or take 8 meta builds for the ele and I can run them all. and all of them can stack more longer lasting might+fury than he can without gimping self with the a generally useless weapon..

silence followed

Im also reasonably sure he ran boon duration runes. Meanwhile I have 3 gold to my name.

again with the really hurtful titles. You know calling someone’s entire fightingstyle “useless” kind of clashes with your attempts to be a gentlemen.
and curtoky…no one cares about what the staff is by direct comparison, focus on the staff alone. there are plenty of reasons to go staff, would you write a 20 minute freewrite in alphabetic order? You don’t get to call an entire weapon ‘useless’ no weapon is useless from what I have seen, its just more specialized. As much as we bash Anet, they got a lot of stuff right, balancing is one of them. It’s not perfect but then what is?)

Theres actually plenty of useless weapons in the game. Guard staff atleast has utility, but its completely useless for fighting.

VideoGamermike.5813:

again with the really hurtful titles. You know calling someone’s entire fightingstyle “useless” kind of clashes with your attempts to be a gentlemen.
and curtoky…no one cares about what the staff is by direct comparison, focus on the staff alone. there are plenty of reasons to go staff, would you write a 20 minute freewrite in alphabetic order? You don’t get to call an entire weapon ‘useless’ no weapon is useless from what I have seen, its just more specialized. As much as we bash Anet, they got a lot of stuff right, balancing is one of them. It’s not perfect but then what is?)

The problem here is that they are implying it is useless because the efficiency for it is way, way too far as compared to other weapon-set combinations. Unless you’re camping a weapon (be it GS/hammer) and just using it at start of fight, it’s probably okay. Probably, given that a ten second swap to staff will significantly lower your damage output on targets, and the might you have acquired lasts only a few seconds for your DPS kit.

Sure, it’s a tool, but some playstyles will always be better in a specific game-modes. Don’t be surprised if in WvW, staffing is okay but in PvE it isn’t. This is the dungeon forum too, so don’t be surprised if staffing is called bad since as a solution in PvE it is.

VideoGamermike.5813:

again with the really hurtful titles. You know calling someone’s entire fightingstyle “useless” kind of clashes with your attempts to be a gentlemen.
and curtoky…no one cares about what the staff is by direct comparison, focus on the staff alone. there are plenty of reasons to go staff, would you write a 20 minute freewrite in alphabetic order? You don’t get to call an entire weapon ‘useless’ no weapon is useless from what I have seen, its just more specialized. As much as we bash Anet, they got a lot of stuff right, balancing is one of them. It’s not perfect but then what is?)

hugs/kisses/butterflies/rainbow

I think Videogamermike was in charge of the French military defense in the mid 20th century but in the alternate reality where the Germans didn’t invade.

Sorry it had to come down to the War.

VideoGamermike doesn’t like comparisons! Staff must be evaluated… on its own!!!

ie Can staff do damage? Yes!
Will mobs eventually die? Yes!
STAFF IS BLOODY EFFECTIVE GUISE!

He has no idea how valuable comparison is.

In this thread, some of you might think VideoGamermike is such a bad troll. But luckily, oilstorm also posted quite a bit.

Comparison is OP

VideoGamermike.5813:

again with the really hurtful titles. You know calling someone’s entire fightingstyle “useless” kind of clashes with your attempts to be a gentlemen.
and curtoky…no one cares about what the staff is by direct comparison, focus on the staff alone. there are plenty of reasons to go staff, would you write a 20 minute freewrite in alphabetic order? You don’t get to call an entire weapon ‘useless’ no weapon is useless from what I have seen, its just more specialized. As much as we bash Anet, they got a lot of stuff right, balancing is one of them. It’s not perfect but then what is?)

In that case underwater weapons are the best weapon in the game. Like that stacking sigil on the underwater weapon is too strong.

Uhh comparisons are a part of life. It is like saying hey guys I think ford focus is the best. Do I need to compare it to any other car of the same class like Hondas, Toyotas, Hyundais. No that would be evil. There is no need to compare things in anything. It is good on its own. Build a computer? Naw. Intel I7 > AMD processors? Cite test based on that. Oh no you can’t compare. AMD processors are good in itself can’t compare objectively why that is the case. talks to significant other we should buy the first house we see no need to compare it. Since it is good already. Compare prices of items. OMG is the dooms day upon us?

Also, if staff is good what are the reasons. Love how you say there are reasons for using X. But then you don’t even say what those reasons are. Sounds more like trolling than an honest discussion. Go ahead list the reasons why staff is really great because I’m sure everyone would love to hear it. Otherwise my comparison is what people look at. Do you think people go I should do 2/4/3/6/5 as my build. Or do they go hmm I need x/6/x/x/x but that means I give up going x/x/x6/6 (comparison). On top of that you talk about knowing efficiency yet part of that is time and resources. Time is wasted on staff since low dps. Resources are wasted on staff since there is no reasons to use a staff when your alternatives is much better. If you believe that this is not the case. Then the next time you buy a major product. Just buy it outright at the nearest electronic store (not on sale). Because there is no reason to directly compare something. You buy that TV at Bestbuy for $300 bucks more because Bestbuy is amazing. Remember focus Bestbuy alone. You can’t say Bestbuy is worse than Amazon because you can’t compare. Focus on Bestbuy alone. You can’t say Newegg is better because focus on Bestbuy alone. See how silly that is.

VideoGamermike.5813:

again with the really hurtful titles. You know calling someone’s entire fightingstyle “useless” kind of clashes with your attempts to be a gentlemen.
and curtoky…no one cares about what the staff is by direct comparison, focus on the staff alone. there are plenty of reasons to go staff, would you write a 20 minute freewrite in alphabetic order? You don’t get to call an entire weapon ‘useless’ no weapon is useless from what I have seen, its just more specialized. As much as we bash Anet, they got a lot of stuff right, balancing is one of them. It’s not perfect but then what is?)

Ok, up until this point I didn’t think you were a troll. “No one cares what the staff is by direct comparison” was the give away. Well played up to that point though, you got me spending a lot of time on this thread thinking that you were genuine.

Cormac.3871:

VideoGamermike.5813:

again with the really hurtful titles. You know calling someone’s entire fightingstyle “useless” kind of clashes with your attempts to be a gentlemen.
and curtoky…no one cares about what the staff is by direct comparison, focus on the staff alone. there are plenty of reasons to go staff, would you write a 20 minute freewrite in alphabetic order? You don’t get to call an entire weapon ‘useless’ no weapon is useless from what I have seen, its just more specialized. As much as we bash Anet, they got a lot of stuff right, balancing is one of them. It’s not perfect but then what is?)

Ok, up until this point I didn’t think you were a troll. “No one cares what the staff is by direct comparison” was the give away. Well played up to that point though, you got me spending a lot of time on this thread thinking that you were genuine.

I thought that was a much better give away.

Staff/Hammer guard in CoE.

Is there a worse set up? :|

Staff-staff and staff-scepter/shield…?

Tachii.3506:

Staff/Hammer guard in CoE.

Is there a worse set up? :|

There’s nothing wrong with that set up unless played badly by an inexperienced player.

It’s not optimal, but there are plenty of worse combinations like mace/torch.

Tachii.3506:

Staff/Hammer guard in CoE.

Is there a worse set up? :|

Someone who plays meta but is bad and is a corpse for 99% of the dungeon, but rages at the Warrior for not warbannering him because hes so meta.

It has been proven that there are better weapon combination for a guardian than using staff. For as far as I know the GS – Sword/Focus combo has the highest DPS rotation, correct me if iam wrong. But…the point is, maybe that this player doesn’t feel comfortble while using other weps so far or he/she has yet to figure out how to work with the other weps. If such a player refuses to adapt to the party’s needs for the dungeon, try to make the most out of his staff 4, or kindly ask him/her to leave the party (since you asked for a zerk group right?). Remember, while pugging it will always be a surpise who you will get in your party.

Good luck.

Oh whoa! Look at that title!

Well now, this is getting a bit scary for me – I main an AH (inb4youareuseless) hammer & staff/greatsword guardian and honestly this thread is frightening. Just to clarify – I don’t join any zerkers/speed parties when doing dungeons on my guard, so let’s see if I’m doing this right:

I prefer staff over greatsword nowadays, in fact I’m not sure when was the last time I used greatsword in general. Why? In dungeons for the movement speed stacking, short but useful might stacks and my 5th spell that blocks creeps when we’re skipping parts of the dungeon.

This is when my hammer comes out → I stack might with staff and then I switch to hammer and just bash down the champ until my staff’s 4th is off CD, then I repeat the process.

Can I get a place in a party or should I hop on my “meta” thief?

Eh…. staff is fine… for skipping…

But the whole “stacking might” thing is useless/detrimental to a good party because with a might warrior or ele you would be overwriting the ~21s might with a measley 10s might stack… which is lame to say the least in dungeons.

Hello, Lilith! Thanks for the kind reply, I was, in fact, expecting to be bashed. Indeed, you’re right but I still won’t underestimate it considering the fact that I rarely see any other might stacks except for my own staff, virtue of justice and crit hits.

winterchillz.2564:

I main an AH (inb4youareuseless) hammer & staff/greatsword guardian

Can I get a place in a party or should I hop on my “meta” thief?

You can, but you will be a burden to most party. As long as you don’t join any zerker, experienced or speed run party you will be fine. And are you at least using full berserker gear with that setup? If not, then you really don’t want to be loved man. Using a WvW build, with WvW weapons and whatever gear you use in a Dungeon settings is pretty bad. Don’t get me wrong, you will complete the dungeon just fine, but the rest of your party will be carrying you through it and the longer fight will put additionnal pression on your teamate, who may die more often. You will rez them back up, thinking that you are doing just fine since you don’t die and they do, but you would be fooling yourself. I use to play AH Guardian with a mix of knight and zerker gear (but with GS and S/F). Eventually changing that to AH Guardian with full Zerker gear. Other characters were full offensive for PvE (Ele and Warrior), but i was always hesistant to go that direction on my Guardian. I used to loved that he was a bit tankier for some situation. But the truth is, i stay alive A LOT more with the typical full dps build on my guardian. With all the blind, aegis, etc i have a more fun gameplay, stay alive more, keep my hp higher than 90% more often and keep my party alive way more often by supporting them while doing a lot more dps.

winterchillz.2564:

Hello, Lilith! Thanks for the kind reply, I was, in fact, expecting to be bashed. Indeed, you’re right but I still won’t underestimate it considering the fact that I rarely see any other might stacks except for my own staff, virtue of justice and crit hits.

I get that. I can see its use in that sense… but at the same time it’s possible that 9 seconds of staff auto (before you can switch back) is losing quite a lot of damage. I’m honestly no expert. But I find that my greatsword/sword focus enables me to kill things much quicker than when I used to do what you do with greatsword/staff and empower. Which in turn keeps my party safer.

I try not to bash new posters in the forum on their first post here.

winterchillz.2564:

Hello, Lilith! Thanks for the kind reply, I was, in fact, expecting to be bashed. Indeed, you’re right but I still won’t underestimate it considering the fact that I rarely see any other might stacks except for my own staff, virtue of justice and crit hits.

It depend on your party. When i play with my guild, we always have 25 stack of mights while fighting. Elementalist and Warriors are far superior to give might than the guardian staff.

winterchillz.2564:

Oh whoa! Look at that title!

Well now, this is getting a bit scary for me – I main an AH (inb4youareuseless) hammer & staff/greatsword guardian and honestly this thread is frightening. Just to clarify – I don’t join any zerkers/speed parties when doing dungeons on my guard, so let’s see if I’m doing this right:

I prefer staff over greatsword nowadays, in fact I’m not sure when was the last time I used greatsword in general. Why? In dungeons for the movement speed stacking, short but useful might stacks and my 5th spell that blocks creeps when we’re skipping parts of the dungeon.

This is when my hammer comes out -> I stack might with staff and then I switch to hammer and just bash down the champ until my staff’s 4th is off CD, then I repeat the process.

Can I get a place in a party or should I hop on my “meta” thief?

You should be fine – you already said you don’t join speed runs. If you have a warrior though, try sticking them on a phalanx strength build, you will give massive amounts of might to your party.

I currently use a mix of knights and soldiers gear as I only joined GW2 one month ago and my guard is the first character that I got to 80, therefore I thought it’d be good to actually get plenty of survivability rather than damage and low tankiness.

You’re right about reviving the rest of the party and you put up a good point that I’m maybe being more of a weight rather than a helpful hand. May I ask what the average DPS that you get with your Zerker gear? I’ve decided to go for celestial accessory and rings but I think that swapping some of my soldiers gear for zerker could work if the damage increase is something that I could actually notice.

I currently hit for 1/2k up to 5k crits with around 5 might stacks but at the same time I have absolutely no troubles tanking pretty much every boss in let’s say fractals for example while granting some boons to party members or reviving the fallen.

Edit: Oh, missed all those posts while I was writing this one. Okay, let’s see:

Lilith, I haven’t tried sword and focus but I was thinking about scepter and focus. I will give them both a go, thank you!

Maha, I don’t have a warrior – I don’t like the idea of having multiple characters that use nearly the same mechanics/armour etc. It just feels as if I’m playing my guard but with different skills. I have my thief to make up for that though.

I’m not one with the numbers but slowly swapping out non – berserker gear might be good for you. It took me a while to swap out my soldier trinkets after armoring armoring and traiting in berseker/meta. For me the trinkets were training wheels…. but the issue was I wasn’t learning from my mistakes (like missing a dodge wouldn’t mean much) so when I finally converted them all I was able to learn my character a lot better.

That’s how I did anyway. Everyone’s different.

Winterchillz, here some information on the weapons you can use.

Sword/Focus : Its a great DPS set. Sword have higher dps than greatsword on auto-attack, but lack the burst dmg from Whirlwind and the GS symbol. You also lack the condition removal that Light Field + GS attack 2 and 5 can give you (combo field that remove condition). You have access to 2 blind with Sw/F compare to only 1 with GS. Also the Sw/F give you access to a really powerful block. Sw/F give you good constant DPS with the best surviability in melee.

Greatsword : Like i said, you can Light Field + Whirlwind finisher for some condi removal for you and ally. Its also have great burst dps with skill 2 and 4, with access to 1 blind with skill 3. One of the 2 best DPS set of the guardian, it have less survivability than Sw/F. But the Skill 5 is powerful to group up mobs to cleave more of them at the same time. Its hard to choose between GS and Sw/F and that’s why a lot of people choose both.

Hammer : In PvE, the strenght of the hammer is the constant protection for auto-attack. But for that you need to change a bit the typical meta build. Not that useful in dungeon (you have plenty of survivability already), it is consider a great addition in high fractal since boss there often hit hard and have high amount of hp. Having constant protection for your party can allow your party to melee more things in Fractal and not range with lower dps.

Staff : Some people use it BEFORE a fight, so you don’t waste time on swapping cooldown never. But a lot of better way to have might. Personally, I use it only in TA for the blossom. Other than that, a lot of better weapon.

Scepter/Focus : Use to have that on me all the time. It a backup weapon set when you learn the game. But keep in mind that you can melee everything in dungeon (in fractal that can be a bit harder), if you can’t melee something in dungeon and you need to go in range, its ok, but you are doing something wrong and you have room to improve. Anyway, even now i keep my scepter in my inventory for some specific stuff in dungeon.

I would recommend you to use the meta build right now. Why? This will push you to learn how to use all the blind, aegis, reflect, etc which is a big part of the gameplay. Keep your current gear while you learn the weapons and build. Once you are comfortable with all that, then begin to change 1 piece at the time to berserker. Take your time, there is no rush.

You can do the otherway around like Lillith said. (I did it the same way Lillith did actually). But i had a hard time get used to F1 spamming and apply the blind/aegis on a good rotation. Using the meta build change the way to play a lot, making thing a lot easier after that when you change to less defense and more dps. Both ways are good, choose the best for you.

Fror.2163:

When I pug and get a guardian in a group, chances are he’s with staff. Actually, I haven’t seen a non-staff guardian in ages (except mine and newbies who are like “dis my hammer, love my hammer”, good at least you have a weapon that can provide real utility inside the battle).

So, how to tell a guardian that he just should give up on staff for dungeons like CoE, AC, CoF!, etc. and that staff is more of a situational weapon. I want to be able to tell him and still finish the dungeon. So far everytime I mention the topic, I’m seen as a berserker scumbag (yet the lfg said zerker only). But also, I don’t want to shut up because they can’t play. I know I can’t educate people against their will, but I wanna try anyways.

Just play with me. I’m a Zerker/Knight with an Ascended Greatsword and exotic Scepter/Focus. I haven’t seen a staff guard in a long time acutally.

Ow.

Lilith I have to say it. I love your asura, her range of emotions are vast and appropriate.

Gyler.8150:

Lilith I have to say it. I love your asura, her range of emotions are vast and appropriate.

Thaddeus.4891:

winterchillz.2564:

I main an AH (inb4youareuseless) hammer & staff/greatsword guardian

Can I get a place in a party or should I hop on my “meta” thief?

You can, but you will be a burden to most party.

I don’t think this playstyle will be a burden to most PUGs. I run with PUGs often — I think you do a better job helping them as a zerker, but if no one else in the group is using might stacking then staff 4 isn’t horrible, and hammer provides good damage + protection.

Thaddeus.4891:

As long as you don’t join any zerker, experienced or speed run party you will be fine.

This I agree with.

Thaddeus.4891:

And are you at least using full berserker gear with that setup? If not, then you really don’t want to be loved man. Using a WvW build, with WvW weapons and whatever gear you use in a Dungeon settings is pretty bad. Don’t get me wrong, you will complete the dungeon just fine, but the rest of your party will be carrying you through it and the longer fight will put additionnal pression on your teamate, who may die more often. You will rez them back up, thinking that you are doing just fine since you don’t die and they do, but you would be fooling yourself. I use to play AH Guardian with a mix of knight and zerker gear (but with GS and S/F). Eventually changing that to AH Guardian with full Zerker gear. Other characters were full offensive for PvE (Ele and Warrior), but i was always hesistant to go that direction on my Guardian. I used to loved that he was a bit tankier for some situation. But the truth is, i stay alive A LOT more with the typical full dps build on my guardian. With all the blind, aegis, etc i have a more fun gameplay, stay alive more, keep my hp higher than 90% more often and keep my party alive way more often by supporting them while doing a lot more dps.

I also agree that as you get more familiar with the dungeons, active defenses are both more fun and more effective. (At one point, it was fun to tank while healing w/ AH + staff 4 … but then I realized there was no need to tank to begin with. <rueful smile>)

So long as you don’t join groups asking for optimal builds or claim yours is, I see little wrong with running a build you find more fun …. but if you play with meta builds (especially obal’s transition build w/ hammer + symbol traits), it does work very well.

Funny story time:

I usually run ascended celestial armor + traveler’s runes for WvW (+ zerker trinkets). I forgot to change back after doing a dungeon since I was wearing an outfit, so I went into WvW with exotic armor + scholar’s runes … I was slower, but I was also surprised at the big beautiful numbers, even when I was lazy and camping GS AA. Zerker + active defense works much better for solo capping camps … and OK for smallish zergs. (I often use a staff in WvW, and there I think it is appropriate … just not for dungeons.) Guess it’s time to make an ascended zerker set …

winterchillz.2564:

Oh whoa! Look at that title!

Well now, this is getting a bit scary for me - I main an AH (inb4youareuseless) hammer & staff/greatsword guardian and honestly this thread is frightening. Just to clarify - I don’t join any zerkers/speed parties when doing dungeons on my guard, so let’s see if I’m doing this right:

I prefer staff over greatsword nowadays, in fact I’m not sure when was the last time I used greatsword in general. Why? In dungeons for the movement speed stacking, short but useful might stacks and my 5th spell that blocks creeps when we’re skipping parts of the dungeon.

This is when my hammer comes out -&gt; I stack might with staff and then I switch to hammer and just bash down the champ until my staff’s 4th is off CD, then I repeat the process.

Can I get a place in a party or should I hop on my "meta" thief?

As someone who used to use AH for a long while, I can say that DPS builds are just more satisfying to use. I’m currently running 4/3/0/2/5 and it’s at least a 13% damage increase just from passive traits alone (2 in Zeal, 5 in Virtues, GS mastery from Zeal).

There is then 3 in Radiance which is just fantastic. Blind + 3 stacks of vulnerability + 3 stacks of might upon using a Virtue that recharges itself everytime an enemy dies? Holycrudery sign me up.

Just by switching traits you will see improvement in DPS. You can still use soldier/knights gear or whatever you’re running with to learn how to use a zerk build, but the whole active damage mitigation aspect is fantastic.

PS: Personally I’m not really a fan of Sword/focus. The last AA is some weird single-target ranged move (when doing forward TA in the 4 bubbles part the last AA doesn’t even hit the enemy ._.). I can see the rotation will outdps a single GS on a single target but against trash mobs? I rather just stay on GS (they melt fast as is).

You should try using sword on Archdiviner or any reflect boss :P. It’s even better than the Bubbles in TA Forward.

Guardian sword always felt awful to use on Trash, especially when trying to double stack before it was nerfed.

Yeah sword chain 3 sends out 3 projectiles, which can be blocked or reflected back at you (e.g. the bubbles in TA fw will block it and the wraith in Arah p4 will reflect it).