Guild Wars 2

Simple this – make the raid fight highly demanding and require a high level of skill, but take out the DPS race. Dps races are tied with the power race that goes along with them in other mmorpg – a dated design concept, and oddly placed in a game that has effectively solved the power curve dilemma.

Advantages:

-Players are free to experiment with builds – its no longer about a meta.

-disenfranchise the dps > than everything ‘omg why are you not meta’ tunneled viewpoint. Boons, auras, healing, dodging, dps, tanking all should be able to feed into an encounter.

It´s always about Meta.
Even without DPS race people don´t want to spend 3 hours on 1 boss than can easily be done in couple of minutes.

esp. in Pugs

pugs will always be inferior to organised groups that learn to play together, thats why the dps race is such a poor mechanism, skill is skill, not how many numbers you can pump out per second. Il give a concrete example, i enjoy playing auras, an entirely selfless build thats all about boosting others – is this meta? no! if a raid encounter was not focused on a dps race would it be viable assuming the player had skill.

The DPS race thing is slightly untrue, most of the encounters don’t have much of a race in them (we infact use an Auramancer for Matthias). Every meta will always be “take as much DPS as you can get away with,” this will be true no matter what you do. Forcing high DPS also has the benefit of forcing people to be squishier and thus require playing around mechanics more (the classic 10 nomad’s gear ignoring all the mechanics argument).

There will always be a meta and it will always be “take as much DPS as you can get away with,” the builds may change and the meta may change but there will always be a meta.

forcing ‘high’ dps can force people to use dps skills and less mechanics, you are pressured to pick a skill based on how much increase to dps it gives, not how much utility it gives. Obviously you get as much dps as you can, its all about opportunity cost. Theres nothnig wrong with a balanced approach, but when some people force max dps at the cost of everything that’s where the problem of dps races arise -especially when the dps race comes from a tunneled perception.

Is it not true that current raids can be completed by organized groups using alternatives to meta builds? I was under the impression it was possible (i.e., been done). Maybe I’m wrong.

GW2 build design intent was based around the idea of there being 3 roles: damage, control and support. It’s my impression that all three are good ideas in raids. Maybe I’m wrong.

It’s been my impression that both control and support are not all that connected to gear, although they can be to traits. What this means is that gear is primarily oriented around the survival-damage continuum. I see nothing wrong with that. One chooses as much survival gear as is needed if one is the aggro gatherer in the raid, otherwise one chooses damage. The discussion over the viability of Healing Power as a stat is separate. Maybe I’m wrong.

It’s also been my impression that a lot of players still associate the idea of build diversity with gear choice. That is not true in GW2. By design intent, the primary source of diversity is profession. By inference, the other sources are traits and weapon choice. Gear was definitely tertiary until the increase in toughness as an aggro mechanic in HoT. I’m pretty sure I’m not wrong about that.

Slothazor is a perfect example of a fight where you take many reflects, pulls and condi removal support skills while building for high DPS (everyone even takes turn being the focus of the boss).

As I said earlier we run an Auramancer for Matthias.

‘we run an Auramancer for Matthias’

I don’ t see how this would solve anything.

The actual timer is not too much of an issue regarding dps race, since they are lenient enough. If there were no timer then everyone would build tanky and just kill it with attrition, even with instant-wipe mechanics many things would become too much easy. This is why timers exist in first place, and are a good thing.

Increasing the time limit? Then we have a numerical value which may never be right for some, or might be right already and may ruin fun for other people to see it upped since they demand a challenge, so is basically worthless to modify.

vesica tempestas.1563:

‘we run an Auramancer for Matthias’

I mentioned it because you were asking about playing it in Raid. Just showing how there is variety and plenty room to experiment.

The DPS race is real, and it does limit build diversity and promote a soft gear-gate, but I don’t know that it’s the main problem with accessibility. Being able to gear more into defense might be helpful, but many of the mechanics are designed to auto-kill, which is more of an issue for general accessibility than constant chip damage.

There will always be a meta. The only place a meta doesn’t exist are places where people are simply unaware of what the meta is. But there still is a meta.
ArenaNet didn’t go into GW2 thinking “okay, let’s make this game have a meta”. So called "meta"s in video games are things that naturally form based on the playerbases’ collective experiences and tendencies.

And I don’t see why you’re referring to dps reqs as “a dated design concept” with a negative connotation.
It is an effective design concept that helps avoid people cheesing encounters and allows the developers to better fine-tune the fight.
The dps requirements ensure that a certain amount of offense is taken. Taking this offense comes at an opportunity cost, namely defense/support. As a result, your group can’t hunker down with a highly defensive setup that reduces the impact (difficulty) of the fight’s mechanics.

Ohoni.6057:

The DPS race is real, and it does limit build diversity and promote a soft gear-gate, but I don’t know that it’s the main problem with accessibility. Being able to gear more into defense might be helpful, but many of the mechanics are designed to auto-kill, which is more of an issue for general accessibility than constant chip damage.

That right there just prove how much you are you really knowledgable in raids. The only boss that had a dps race was gorseval and with the fix to his aggro and the slow cc method, the dps race there is not as high as it used to be. As for all other raid boss, it’s failling mechanics and people that down that make the vast vast vast majority of group failed. It’s almost never because of a lack of dps.

There will always be a meta. The only place a meta doesn’t exist are places where people are simply unaware of what the meta is. But there still is a meta.

well sure, but the more slack content has, the less anyone cares about the meta. I mean, if the difference between a meta-party and a non-meta-party is that the non-metas take 15 minutes to clear a boss rather than ten, then even the biggest jerks will sigh and move on with their lives. But when it makes the difference between a boss taking ten minutes or taking three hours of failed attempts, people will get pretty salty about it.

The dps requirements ensure that a certain amount of offense is taken. Taking this offense comes at an opportunity cost, namely defense/support. As a result, your group can’t hunker down with a highly defensive setup that reduces the impact (difficulty) of the fight’s mechanics.

Yes, hence the importance of reducing the DPS requirements, so that players can build more defensively and be more survivable.

That right there just prove how much you are you really knowledgable in raids. The only boss that had a dps race was gorseval and with the fix to his aggro and the slow cc method, the dps race there is not as high as it used to be. As for all other raid boss, it’s failling mechanics and people that down that make the vast vast vast majority of group failed. It’s almost never because of a lack of dps.

You’d be surprised. I think there’s a certain bubble developing in the community where people who often raid with successful groups start to believe that all groups are as successful as theirs are.

Keep in mind that the “DPS race” is not just gearing, it’s not just a hard requirement for ideal gear, it’s also that everyone needs to know their most effective skill rotations and when to use the off-rotation abilities, and also not getting knocked off rotation by having to deal with downs or other mechanics. The fact remains that some groups can still hit that enrage time on their feet, which means that for whatever reasons they have failed the DPS race.

I did note that it’s more to do with the mechanics though, it’s just that the DPS race is not a myth, it’s just less of an issue than staying alive and active.

Ohoni.6057:

The DPS race is real, and it does limit build diversity and promote a soft gear-gate, but I don’t know that it’s the main problem with accessibility. Being able to gear more into defense might be helpful, but many of the mechanics are designed to auto-kill, which is more of an issue for general accessibility than constant chip damage.

Speaking from a position of extreme ignorance doesn’t make your statement valid.

After all you’ve put in all of 2 hrs according to your own post and actively refuse to do anything other than play your way.

Sorry, but that’s not how raids work. Raids are for people who want to accomplish a goal together. To that end they often have to sacrifice and make compromises to reach the end goal of completion. Something you’ve yet to do, which makes you a very poor candidate for talking about any DPS race.

Additionally there will always be a meta, however to say the raids are a DPS race is a joke. The bosses in each wing are a mechanical proficiency check. Once you put in the time to learn the mechanics and everyone is on the same page DPS becomes irrelevant.

As proof of this: – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bl_IUQuZuCg

10 players using horribly sub-optimal / no damage builds.

After all you’ve put in all of 2 hrs according to your own post and actively refuse to do anything other than play your way.

That is not correct.

Sorry, but that’s not how raids work. Raids are for people who want to accomplish a goal together. To that end they often have to sacrifice and make compromises to reach the end goal of completion. Something you’ve yet to do, which makes you a very poor candidate for talking about any DPS race.

That applies to you, and the sort of raids you want. That does nto apply to everyone, or the sort of raids they want. A lot of people are expressing disapproval of rthe current raids, and your response is “you’re wrong to not like the way raids are,” rather than “how can raids be changed so that you would like them?”

As proof of this: – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bl_IUQuZuCg

10 players using horribly sub-optimal / no damage builds.

But again, a 10 players with sub-optimal skills would have a better chance if they did have optimal builds.

Again, pointing out expert players performing well with far less than optimal builds proves absolutely nothing to people who are struggling with the raids in their current form. Showing examples of how those players can get through it would be the only “proof” you could offer that would be relevant to the concerns raised.

Instead of focusing so much on how players are “wrong” to express dissatisfaction, how about spend more time trying to actually resolve the problems they’re expressing?

Ohoni.6057:

After all you’ve put in all of 2 hrs according to your own post and actively refuse to do anything other than play your way.

That is not correct.

Sorry, but that’s not how raids work. Raids are for people who want to accomplish a goal together. To that end they often have to sacrifice and make compromises to reach the end goal of completion. Something you’ve yet to do, which makes you a very poor candidate for talking about any DPS race.

That applies to you, and the sort of raids you want. That does nto apply to everyone, or the sort of raids they want. A lot of people are expressing disapproval of rthe current raids, and your response is “you’re wrong to not like the way raids are,” rather than “how can raids be changed so that you would like them?”

As proof of this: – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bl_IUQuZuCg

10 players using horribly sub-optimal / no damage builds.

But again, a 10 players with sub-optimal skills would have a better chance if they did have optimal builds.

Again, pointing out expert players performing well with far less than optimal builds proves absolutely nothing to people who are struggling with the raids in their current form. Showing examples of how those players can get through it would be the only “proof” you could offer that would be relevant to the concerns raised.

Instead of focusing so much on how players are “wrong” to express dissatisfaction, how about spend more time trying to actually resolve the problems they’re expressing?

Because the “problems” can be solved by them taking the adequate time and learning to play and learning to play well with others instead of forcing the developers to take action because they refuse to do such things in a cooperative MMO.

Because the “problems” can be solved by them taking the adequate time and learning to play and learning to play well with others instead of forcing the developers to take action because they refuse to do such things in a cooperative MMO.

Right, but then when people tell you “but I’m not interested in that,” you return with “then raids are not for you,” rather than exploring how raids could be made more appealing to them.

Ohoni.6057:

Because the “problems” can be solved by them taking the adequate time and learning to play and learning to play well with others instead of forcing the developers to take action because they refuse to do such things in a cooperative MMO.

Right, but then when people tell you “but I’m not interested in that,” you return with “then raids are not for you,” rather than exploring how raids could be made more appealing to them.

Correct. Not every piece of content needs to be for everyone, nor does it require attention.

A falsely perceived problem does not make it a problem.

Correct. Not every piece of content needs to be for everyone, nor does it require attention.

A falsely perceived problem does not make it a problem.

And failing to perceive a problem does not make it not a problem.

Make them Easier…. Its not Rocket Science.

Or

Make the “Gears” needed for them easier to get..

Dante.1508:

Make them Easier…. Its not Rocket Science.

Or

Make the “Gears” needed for them easier to get..

The don’t need to be easier, and any “Gear” you think you need to get can be purchased on the TP.

Raids are entirely doable in exotic, and have even been completed in Masterwork gear.

The don’t need to be easier, and any “Gear” you think you need to get can be purchased on the TP.

Again, when people say “make it easier,” you are not the target audience for that. You don’t need it, that doesn’t mean that other people don’t. Don’t think about what TexZero does or does not need, look at what people are actually saying, as if they were separate human beings from yourself, and then think of ways to help them achieve their “totally separate human being” concerns.

TexZero.7910:

Dante.1508:

Make them Easier…. Its not Rocket Science.

Or

Make the “Gears” needed for them easier to get..

The don’t need to be easier, and any “Gear” you think you need to get can be purchased on the TP.

Raids are entirely doable in exotic, and have even been completed in Masterwork gear.

So lets make content for the niche community and ignore the rest, sounds viable in the long term… not.

Dante.1508:

TexZero.7910:

Dante.1508:

Make them Easier…. Its not Rocket Science.

Or

Make the “Gears” needed for them easier to get..

The don’t need to be easier, and any “Gear” you think you need to get can be purchased on the TP.

Raids are entirely doable in exotic, and have even been completed in Masterwork gear.

So lets make content for the niche community and ignore the rest, sounds viable in the long term… not.

Because the only content in the game are raids.
Yeah we get it, you are bored because because the rest takes so long and the only team with a steady content output since HoT is the raid team. But the people who want to play the raids and fail at the ‘dps requirements’ are also a niche community and as small or smaller than the raid community.

But the people who want to play the raids and fail at the ‘dps requirements’ are also a niche community and as small or smaller than the raid community.

Source?

Ohoni.6057:

But the people who want to play the raids and fail at the ‘dps requirements’ are also a niche community and as small or smaller than the raid community.

Source?

Bring a source for your claims before asking anyone for sources. We had it last thread.

Bring a source for your claims before asking anyone for sources. We had it last thread.

You said that “the people who want to play the raids and fail at the ‘dps requirements’ are also a niche community and as small or smaller than the raid community,” I’m just asking where you came by this data. I see no basis for it, even as a Fermi estimate. I think it’s far more likely that the amount of people who would do raids if they removed a lot of the rough edges would be WAY higher than the amount currently running them.

The enrage timers are very generous already. Our guild never hits them even if we have newcomers in raid group.
Except for Gorseval where it is sometimes a close call, but gorsevals dps check is his only true mechanic anyway

Ohoni.6057:

Bring a source for your claims before asking anyone for sources. We had it last thread.

You said that “the people who want to play the raids and fail at the ‘dps requirements’ are also a niche community and as small or smaller than the raid community,” I’m just asking where you came by this data. I see no basis for it, even as a Fermi estimate. I think it’s far more likely that the amount of people who would do raids if they removed a lot of the rough edges would be WAY higher than the amount currently running them.

There would be of course more people that would play raids. But there is also no basis for the fact that the playerbase for raids would atleast double. Unless thats the case you are using ressources for a even smaller group.
And the enrage timer is no rough edge, more like a silk-smooth edge.
You can already ignore mechanics like green circle at VG with 1 full healer and a off-healer in dmg-equipment, building more defensive would probably allow you to even ignore the damage from the radiant sections.

There would be of course more people that would play raids. But there is also no basis for the fact that the playerbase for raids would atleast double. Unless thats the case you are using ressources for a even smaller group.

I don’t think that would be an unreasonable claim. I mean, it’s really hard to say, we don’t know how many people currently raid, or how many people historically Dungeon or Fractal, but my assumption is that a lot more people Dungeon and Fractal than currently Raid, and most if not all of these people would work Raiding into their schedules if the reasons they currently don’t raid would be pealed away.

Not to mention the people who currently raid, but are not particularly enjoying it, and might enjoy something different more than they are currently enjoying the raids. The would not be totally new customers to that experience, but their added happiness would be a net positive nonetheless.

You can already ignore mechanics like green circle at VG with 1 full healer and a off-healer in dmg-equipment, building more defensive would probably allow you to even ignore the damage from the radiant sections.

You tend to frame things in terms of what an expert group can pull off when they are trying something weird, but keep in mind that most changes would be aimed at imperfect players who are just trying to get by. Any changes made likely would make things much easier for people who already have the content on farm, but that’s not the point. The point is to allow people to squeak past it who are currently struggling, and will continue to struggle or give up entirely so long as things stay as they are.

Ohoni.6057:

I don’t think that would be an unreasonable claim. I mean, it’s really hard to say, we don’t know how many people currently raid, or how many people historically Dungeon or Fractal, but my assumption is that a lot more people Dungeon and Fractal than currently Raid, and most if not all of these people would work Raiding into their schedules if the reasons they currently don’t raid would be pealed away.

Not to mention the people who currently raid, but are not particularly enjoying it, and might enjoy something different more than they are currently enjoying the raids. The would not be totally new customers to that experience, but their added happiness would be a net positive nonetheless.

It remains an unreasonable claim unless you can prove it. The majority of the players don’t care about raids.
Most people enjoy the path of least resistance, that doesn’t mean you have to support it.

You tend to frame things in terms of what an expert group can pull off when they are trying something weird, but keep in mind that most changes would be aimed at imperfect players who are just trying to get by. Any changes made likely would make things much easier for people who already have the content on farm, but that’s not the point. The point is to allow people to squeak past it who are currently struggling, and will continue to struggle or give up entirely so long as things stay as they are.

Healing through the green circle explosion is used in PUGs if the circle spawns in an unfavorable area. Not everyone who enjoys raids is an expert and I wouldn’t call myself an expert player either.

Dante.1508:

TexZero.7910:

Dante.1508:

Make them Easier…. Its not Rocket Science.

Or

Make the “Gears” needed for them easier to get..

The don’t need to be easier, and any “Gear” you think you need to get can be purchased on the TP.

Raids are entirely doable in exotic, and have even been completed in Masterwork gear.

So lets make content for the niche community and ignore the rest, sounds viable in the long term… not.

How are they ignoring the rest when there’s been quite a few “PvE” updates to make your gameplay a giant loot pinata again ?

Additionally please explain why having Raids, a mode which requires adequate teamwork and time investment is unhealthy for the game. I fail to see it mostly due to the fact that its the only content piece that has this which makes it a good fit, especially for people who are good at socializing and are good team players.

The majority of the players don’t care about raids.

It remains an unreasonable claim unless you can prove it.

Most people enjoy the path of least resistance, that doesn’t mean you have to support it.

But that would mean that you should support it, right?

Healing through the green circle explosion is used in PUGs if the circle spawns in an unfavorable area. Not everyone who enjoys raids is an expert and I wouldn’t call myself an expert player either.

That’s nice, yet there are still people that struggle to complete the raid bosses, and telling them how much better other players can complete it really doesn’t help them any.

Additionally please explain why having Raids, a mode which requires adequate teamwork and time investment is unhealthy for the game. I fail to see it mostly due to the fact that its the only content piece that has this which makes it a good fit, especially for people who are good at socializing and are good team players.

Because it’s out of place with the rest of the content, a square hole in a game full of round holes, and yet offers superior rewards than other modes (and you may dispute this fact, but your opinion on the matter is irrelevant to those who consider the rewards to be of value). Players who enjoy most of the game are rightfully upset when they view this content as both important for them to complete, and also outside of the range of content they could enjoy playing. It would be a different story entirely if they had designed it such that players who chose not to raid were not missing out on anything by doing so.

Ohoni.6057:

That’s nice, yet there are still people that struggle to complete the raid bosses, and telling them how much better other players can complete it really doesn’t help them any.

Neither does making a mode with training wheels. So what’s your point ?

After all you’ve been very quick to dismiss people proving there’s no DPS race yet all you have is 2hrs raiding.

Here’s a hint, there’s no DPS race….I’ll repeat this for you guys. There is no DPS race. Do the mechanics and you wont have an issue with timers.

Neither does making a mode with training wheels. So what’s your point ?

Well, that really depends. Would the training wheels version be more fun for them to play? It might. Maybe not for you, but for them it might. Would the training wheels version make it more likely that they would be able to get the various loot that is currently locked behind raids? Maybe. If either of those were true, then training mode would be helping those players, again, entirely regardless of whether you would see any benefit from them yourself.

After all you’ve been very quick to dismiss people proving there’s no DPS race yet all you have is 2hrs raiding.

Again, not a true fact.

Here’s a hint, there’s no DPS race….I’ll repeat this for you guys. There is no DPS race. Do the mechanics and you wont have an issue with timers.

But fail some of the mechanics and the timer can be an issue, and working as hard as possible to keep up with the timer makes failing mechanics more likely, so the timer is not a non-issue as well.

Why is this even a debate. Raids are supposed to be top tier content. There already doable in under a hour each wing, they dont need to be easier. And allowing players to not have a enrage timer creates lazy players that will just nomad there way through life ignoring mechanics and not getting any better. Please let the raiders half their content without kittening and moaning getting it nerfed. Just git gud.

Why is this even a debate. Raids are supposed to be top tier content. There already doable in under a hour each wing, they dont need to be easier.

But they are part of a game that should be enjoyed by everyone, and how quickly the top tier teams can complete it does not matter in the least to players that are telling you that they cannot.

It’s like you’re in a store, and see a short person trying to reach an item on a top shelf, and still missing it by a foot. They ask the manager for a footstool or something, and your response is “what are you talking about? You don’t need a footstool! Look, I can grab the item easy! Git gud!”

Ohoni.6057:

Why is this even a debate. Raids are supposed to be top tier content. There already doable in under a hour each wing, they dont need to be easier.

But they are part of a gamer that should be enjoyed by everyone, and how quickly the top tier teams can complete it does not matter in the least to players that are telling you that they cannot.

Than those players that still struggle need to step up their game. If i suck at playing hockey im not gonna be a NHL player. So why should someone whos bad at raids be allowed to complete them. By your logic i should have a easy PVP mode just becuase i would struggle in a competitive manner.

Than those players that still struggle need to step up their game. If i suck at playing hockey im not gonna be a NHL player. So why should someone whos bad at raids be allowed to complete them.

Because the NHL is a professional league and this is an entertainment product. There’s no reason why they shouldn’t be able to compete.

By your logic i should have a easy PVP mode just becuase i would struggle in a competitive manner.

Sure. I mean, they should do their best to match poor players with other poor players, resulting in competitive match-ups, rather than to match poor players against great players where they basically stand no chance. You want to try to create a fun experience for everyone, not just those with the highest level of skill.

I disagree. Befor raids there was no PVE content in Gw2 that required the high level of skill that raids usualy require. A vocal minority voiced their opinions and got what they wanted. The raiding community shouldnt have to settle for less because of a few struggling gamers. There are dungeons, fractals and open world pve for those who cant compete in raids. Let the hardcore raider have their hardcore content, they dont need to be nerfed. I expect in the future that raids are gonna see nerfs because of a few complainers, thats gonna be a bad day.

Ohoni.6057:

Additionally please explain why having Raids, a mode which requires adequate teamwork and time investment is unhealthy for the game. I fail to see it mostly due to the fact that its the only content piece that has this which makes it a good fit, especially for people who are good at socializing and are good team players.

Because it’s out of place with the rest of the content, a square hole in a game full of round holes, and yet offers superior rewards than other modes

https://heartofthorns.guildwars2.com/game/raids/

Oh look! A link that explains why raids are “a square hole in a game full of round holes”!

Ohoni.6057:

But fail some of the mechanics and the timer can be an issue, and working as hard as possible to keep up with the timer makes failing mechanics more likely, so the timer is not a non-issue as well.

Which means that if you spend ~20 minutes looking up the mechanics and guides and then get some practice (or just join one of the guilds where people teach this stuff) then timers are nonissue again.

Ohoni.6057:

Why is this even a debate. Raids are supposed to be top tier content. There already doable in under a hour each wing, they dont need to be easier.

But they are part of a game that should be enjoyed by everyone, and how quickly the top tier teams can complete it does not matter in the least to players that are telling you that they cannot.

So you dont enjoy less than 1% of the available content…who the heck cares.

Other people don’t enjoy more than 50% but you don’t see them asking for drastic changes in the game mode to cater to them.

Go play the other 99% and leave the raids alone, especially since you aren’t nor never will be the target audience.

I disagree. Befor raids there was no PVE content in Gw2 that required the high level of skill that raids usualy require. A vocal minority voiced their opinions and got what they wanted. The raiding community shouldnt have to settle for less because of a few struggling gamers. There are dungeons, fractals and open world pve for those who cant compete in raids. Let the hardcore raider have their hardcore content, they dont need to be nerfed. I expect in the future that raids are gonna see nerfs because of a few complainers, thats gonna be a bad day.

First you cheer because a vocal minority got their way, and then you conclude your statements with the hope that another vocal minority won’t get their way, when in fact the number of players that would benefit from the latter would be greater than those that would benefit from the former.
. . .

Oh look! A link that explains why raids are “a square hole in a game full of round holes”!

I’m afraid it doesn’t. It just lists the features of the raid as they considered it before HoT’s launch. It doesn’t actually justify those design choices as being for the best. I could also point you to a similar new story from GW2’s past:
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/traits-unleashed-forty-new-traits-and-more/

Which means that if you spend ~20 minutes looking up the mechanics and guides and then get some practice (or just join one of the guilds where people teach this stuff) then timers are nonissue again.

And yet I did that, and then spent three hours with you trying to take down Gorseval, and . . . nothing. So no, it’s not remotely that easy.

So you dont enjoy less than 1% of the available content…who the heck cares.

Well, I care. Vesica apparently cares. Several other people in this and other threads apparently care. You might not care that we care, but who cares whether you care that we care?

Ohoni.6057:

So you dont enjoy less than 1% of the available content…who the heck cares.

Well, I care. Vesica apparently cares. Several other people in this and other threads apparently care. You might not care and we care, but who cares whether you care that we care?

How about instead of begging for changes, you first change yourself and actually do the required effort to succeed, maybe then people will care. But as is, you’re an extreme edge case who really doesnt want to raid, as stated by yourself and one who has not put forth any effort to raid and would rather run their own unique build and drag 9 other players down than work as a team player.

So again why should anyone care, especially when you don’t seem to care about anyone else their opinion or experience because apparently the only “real” experience is that you can’t/won’t.

Ohoni.6057:

The majority of the players don’t care about raids.

It remains an unreasonable claim unless you can prove it.

Raids are a team activity. If most players would be interested in a team activity, the cry for HoT to be more soloable would have been less vocal.

Most people enjoy the path of least resistance, that doesn’t mean you have to support it.

But that would mean that you should support it, right?

No, that actually means the opposite…

Healing through the green circle explosion is used in PUGs if the circle spawns in an unfavorable area. Not everyone who enjoys raids is an expert and I wouldn’t call myself an expert player either.

That’s nice, yet there are still people that struggle to complete the raid bosses, and telling them how much better other players can complete it really doesn’t help them any.

So the average PUG are now ‘better players’? Again, stop messing with game modes in which you don’t have interest or know anything about.

First you cheer because a vocal minority got their way, and then you conclude your statements with the hope that another vocal minority won’t get their way, when in fact the number of players that would benefit from the latter would be greater than those that would benefit from the former.

Cite.

And yet I did that, and then spent three hours with you trying to take down Gorseval, and . . . nothing. So no, it’s not remotely that easy.

Most groups needed 5-10h for VG alone. 3h at Gorseval isn’t that much.

I’m afraid it doesn’t. It just lists the features of the raid as they considered it before HoT’s launch. It doesn’t actually justify those design choices as being for the best. I could also point you to a similar new story from GW2’s past:
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/traits-unleashed-forty-new-traits-and-more/

Because a system that was not designed with elite spezialisations in mind and is not/not easily expandable is comparable with a game mode that should deliver challenging PvE Content.
Maybe choose something that is even remotely comparable and not random things that changed during the course of the game.

Guild Wars 2: Heart of Thorns™, introduces the ultimate challenge: our first raid, which is made up of three distinct raid wings. Raids are 10-player, instanced, elite dungeon content that’s a challenge unlike anything we’ve previously released in Guild Wars 2. These raids are meant to put you and your teammates to the test and challenge you to grow your skills as Guild Wars 2 players. Raids are our answer to what skilled PvE players have to look forward to at endgame—the ultimate test to overcome and defeat.

They know it has a higher difficulty than the rest of the game, they even wrote it themselves and it is intended…

Ohani trying to ruin a game mode to suit his needs.

Dragon Masher.5749:

Ohani trying to ruin a game mode to suit his needs.

Man the thread in the dungeon forums was closed so I guess he had to find a new location. Glad I found it too because it is quite the funny read. Just wait until we get to the actual reason he wants an easy mode for raids.

Azoqu.8917:

Dragon Masher.5749:

Ohani trying to ruin a game mode to suit his needs.

Man the thread in the dungeon forums was closed so I guess he had to find a new location. Glad I found it too because it is quite the funny read. Just wait until we get to the actual reason he wants an easy mode for raids.

We know the reason. He wants legendary armor and he doesn’t want to have to work for it; he wants to be able to show up, put in the bare minimum of effort for a couple weeks, and get the reward.