How would you redesign the Zhaitan fight?
Delete whole story mode dungeon. Replace with explorable mode path 2 and reskin Zhaitan onto Lupicus.
Delete whole story mode dungeon. Replace with explorable mode path 2 and reskin Zhaitan onto Lupicus.
But that would let many people not able to finish the story without getting their kitten kicked by the hardest boss in the normal dungeons. Actually when I knew I have to finish a dungeon to get the PS done I was already a bit kittened off.
I still prefer ppl to be able to feel Zhaitan’s power during the encounter, but without spend too much effort on the game mechanic to defeat him.
Decrease the time in the airship, give me the ability to hit zhaitain’s face with my daggers… or as a war say, with my 100 blades.
Have Zhaitan shoot shards of enemies out of his body to land on the airship. Players must destroy these monsters in order to protect one member of the party who operates a laser/cannon and gets to see pretty numbers while shooting at zhaitan. Each time a new wave appears the player on the cannon gets knocked back and receives a debuff which prevents them from operating the cannon for some amount of time, forcing players to alternate on the cannon. The waves of enemies increase in strength, and include vet/champ versions of bosses already fought. The cannon absorbs life force from defeated enemies in order to strengthen its effectiveness against zhaitan, because of some asura magitech bullkitten.
Fight becomes interesting but completable for any skill levels, but still lacks the satisfaction of bashing the dragon in the face.
I wanna punch Zhaitan in the face w/ the pointy end of my sword. Make it happen. I don’t care if you make the party massive through magic. Just let me smash Zhaitan’s face to the floor.
I want to up and personal with him, digging the snot out of his nostrels with my greatsword and then flinging it up into his eyes with my longbow. Make it happen O_O
I just did this again and kitten is it boring. it’s fine up until you get on the airship then it’s just so easy and basically just twiddling your thumbs waiting for things to spawn and kill easily before you get the win.
If they wanted to make it feel epic then yup, we should have knocked him down from the air ship, then gone on the ground and fought it out. Thinking Jade Maw status, he summons creatures or even have his tongue snake things attacking us, we kill them, as we do we weaken him till we have a final cut scene of us all throwing our swords/hammers/whatever into his face and him collapsing.
But, I highly doubt they’d ever even consider doing something like that. What they might consider though is speeding up/removing some of the air ship stuff. It’s just so long and boring. it’s the one story mode that I’m thankful I only have to do it once per character (Most of them I like and I wish there were more incentive to repeat them).
That’s the problem with having these giant dragons as final bosses, you can’t design a believable fight with then using humanoid characters wielding swords and bows and staves.
ANet should remove the airship sections of the path, just keep that mouth of zaithan boss and after we kill it we go to the Elder Dragon’s Lair and fight Zaithan face to face, then we could use some giant golems like megazords and go fight Zaithan like in those japanese shows.
And when it’s over there should be a unique skin reward, like Zhaitan’s horns or wings or something. :3
For one, I think Zhaitan should’ve actually used its tentacles to cling onto the ship, like an octopus.
The player would have to actually slash the tentacles using their own weapons.
Zhaitan would probably poke his head at the front of the ship instead of snapping it off, and we’d have to kill each individual “tongue” of Zhaitan.
At that point, Zhaitan would probably retreat, and then Zojja would use the Mega-Lit cannon. Now that Zhaitan is weakened, the real fight can begin: Players must aim the cannons on BOTH sides of the ship in order to hit Zhaitan, while he is flying and summoning minions. The more you damage Zhaitan, the more “tongues” break off and land on the ship for you to kill.
After that? Actually, I would keep the part where he’s struggling on the tower, but I would also silence the music. I know that sounds weird, but when I fought Zhaitan at launch, when his music didn’t play, that tower scene felt very cinematic and special. It felt like you’ve stripped Zhaitan of his limbs one by one, and he is struggling as he clings onto his last breath. The scene itself is incredibly cinematic, because it shows that at that point, Zhaitan could do nothing but squirm, as the Pact fires at him. It asserts that at that exact point, the Pact had become more powerful than Zhaitan, and that victory was finally in sight. It was just an overall really satisfying moment to watch Zhaitan be the one to struggle, after all the crap he puts you through during the personal story. But when the music was muted and all you could hear Zhaitan’s Roars and cannon fire? Beautiful. You could almost hear Zhaitan crying in pain, and it was sooo satisfying!
I must say as a fan of the lore, Anet did a good job of showing the menace of Zhaitan’s undead throughout the story. However, the end fight was a big disappointment. Zhaitan was taken down way too easily, just some laser gun and he dropped down, then all we have to do is finish him.
I know it’s a story dungeon so the actual difficulty could not be too high. I think I will remove all the previous mobs, and design a big long fight with different phases(players will have time to rest), solely against Zhaitan. Because we already fought enough of his minions, Mouth of Zhaitan, Dragon Champions, Risen Elites, why waste time to fight them again? Using all the resources against him, magic, ship, troops, let many npc die. So the dungeon would not be too long.
Simple, restore the old difficulty prior to the waypoint patch.
I must say as a fan of the lore, Anet did a good job of showing the menace of Zhaitan’s undead throughout the story. However, the end fight was a big disappointment. Zhaitan was taken down way too easily, just some laser gun and he dropped down, then all we have to do is finish him.
I know it’s a story dungeon so the actual difficulty could not be too high. I think I will remove all the previous mobs, and design a big long fight with different phases(players will have time to rest), solely against Zhaitan. Because we already fought enough of his minions, Mouth of Zhaitan, Dragon Champions, Risen Elites, why waste time to fight them again? Using all the resources against him, magic, ship, troops, let many npc die. So the dungeon would not be too long.
Simple, restore the old difficulty prior to the waypoint patch.
“difficulty”
only interesting part about that dungeon is pretty much mouth of zhaitan and it hasn’t been changed. everything else is boring trash fighting.
While I do think the bigger bosses in this game do have a bit of an ‘ankle biting’ issue because of the scale differences, I also think there’s no satisfaction quite like getting some face-time with the boss and would hate to kill it by proxy with a weapon or by hitting a minion.
You could go all Shadow the of the Colossus/God of War on it and have the players move around on the body to reach weak points. Not many MMORPGs have the platforming elements to support that approach, but this one does.
Additionally, you can do something here those action-games can’t.
In those sorts of games the weak spot opportunities to hit were just sort of already there or scripted to be exposed at a certain time. In a multiplayer game you can split up the group into people working to create the opportunities to hit, and the people platforming on the boss to deliver the hits. So you can add a coordination challenge to it as well.
You could go all Shadow the of the Colossus/God of War on it and have the players move around on the body to reach weak points. Not many MMORPGs have the platforming elements to support that approach, but this one does.
Oh my god yes please.
Gotta go dig out my PS3 now…
Something like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWeVadBMlmI
or this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTjnuaKxI_0
Part-time Kittenposter
A chopter drops you on his back and you fight, climbing on his bones, all the way to his eyes, to stab him hard.
Epic!
Simple, restore the old difficulty prior to the waypoint patch.
“difficulty”
only interesting part about that dungeon is pretty much mouth of zhaitan and it hasn’t been changed. everything else is boring trash fighting.
You obviously didn’t do the dungeon prior to the waypoint patch. Simply restoring that version of the dungeon would make it the hardest story mode dungeon by far without going too far.
Something like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWeVadBMlmI
or this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTjnuaKxI_0
I just checked it out, the game seems to be F2P (I always thought it’s subscription based, huh) – In case you play it, is it P2W or are you just fine without the cash shop (if there is one, not sure)?
Something like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWeVadBMlmI
or this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTjnuaKxI_0I just checked it out, the game seems to be F2P (I always thought it’s subscription based, huh) – In case you play it, is it P2W or are you just fine without the cash shop (if there is one, not sure)?
I haven’t noticed any P2W nor have I felt anything like a pay wall, but I don’t know Japanese. I’d ask the psoworld forums or reddit. I can’t check due to an ISP block.
Part-time Kittenposter
Something like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWeVadBMlmI
or this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTjnuaKxI_0I just checked it out, the game seems to be F2P (I always thought it’s subscription based, huh) – In case you play it, is it P2W or are you just fine without the cash shop (if there is one, not sure)?
I haven’t noticed any P2W nor have I felt anything like a pay wall, but I don’t know Japanese. I’d ask the psoworld forums or reddit. I can’t check due to an ISP block.
Please tell me I’m just misreading something/not getting it due to it being late and the game isn’t IP-blocked for EU/NA
Removing Arah story mode and replacing it with a world event like Shatterer/Tequatl/Jormag
So we’d have to do a pre-event to unblock the way to Arah upon entering the dungeon, get teleported to the area to fight Zhaitan (inside the Arah map, or a similar themed area)
Something like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWeVadBMlmI
or this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTjnuaKxI_0I just checked it out, the game seems to be F2P (I always thought it’s subscription based, huh) – In case you play it, is it P2W or are you just fine without the cash shop (if there is one, not sure)?
I haven’t noticed any P2W nor have I felt anything like a pay wall, but I don’t know Japanese. I’d ask the psoworld forums or reddit. I can’t check due to an ISP block.
Please tell me I’m just misreading something/not getting it due to it being late and the game isn’t IP-blocked for EU/NA
Not that I heard. People thought they were because of the DDoS attack, but it seems to be that Sega combated the attack by having ISP’s block PSO2 instead. They didn’t feel incline to give those ISP’s the all clear afterwards is what I’ve been hearing. So if you can’t connect to their server, it’s likely because of your own ISP.
Part-time Kittenposter
Something like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWeVadBMlmI
or this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UTjnuaKxI_0I just checked it out, the game seems to be F2P (I always thought it’s subscription based, huh) – In case you play it, is it P2W or are you just fine without the cash shop (if there is one, not sure)?
I haven’t noticed any P2W nor have I felt anything like a pay wall, but I don’t know Japanese. I’d ask the psoworld forums or reddit. I can’t check due to an ISP block.
Please tell me I’m just misreading something/not getting it due to it being late and the game isn’t IP-blocked for EU/NA
Not that I heard. People thought they were because of the DDoS attack, but it seems to be that Sega combated the attack by having ISP’s block PSO2 instead. They didn’t feel incline to give those ISP’s the all clear afterwards is what I’ve been hearing. So if you can’t connect to their server, it’s likely because of your own ISP.
Ahh… okay. Thanks for the information. Guess I’ll download it overnight and hope for the best. Seems like an interesting game.
reskin Zhaitan onto Lupicus.
But but, I came here to say that :’(
I would have something like this:
- Change the big laser cutscene so that Zhaitan’s wings are mostly destroyed, causing him to crash, taking the big ship with him
- Party is sent to a huge open battlefield where Zhaitan has fallen, guarded by many squads of undead, with some veterans/elites; new waves will periodically spawn
- Players would have Destiny’s Edge NPCs and ~40 Pact allies helping them
- Zhaitan would be a giant boss with multiple points to damage (e.g., arms, head, heart, etc.), casts big dangerous spells and big melee swings (can disable certain attacks by destroying corresponding body part)
- Zhaitan would summon legendary bosses in phases as he takes damage (e.g. a trio of Eyes of Zhaitan at 75%, something at 50%, a reduced HP Lupicus at 25%)
Perhaps make the fight a separate explorable instance.
(edited by voidwater.2064)
I’d start by making it a little bit easier for smaller groups.
My wife and I are now stuck on the last step of our personal story, because we have no friends in game who are willing to, or of high enough level to help us.
I understand, dungeons are meant to be a challenge for a full team, but when we can’t complete it because we don’t have enough people for a team, it gets frustrating.
I’m not saying make the mobs easier, or the fights easier, by all means. Challenge away.
But requiring 2 people stand still on pressure plates with elite mobs spawning left, right, and center is a little overwhelming. Not only because Destiny’s Edge is completely useless in distracting the mobs, but the knockback, pull, and gang-banging from the one’s they can’t distract makes it no fun at all. We tried for over an hour to get past the first door last night and couldn’t. Sounds pathetic, I know. It wasn’t for lack of trying. The two of us can take the mobs or the door, but not both. So, my idea for redesigning it is not to make it easier, or shorter, or completely change it. My redesign is to make it more 2-man friendly, by leaving one person to distract the mobs, while one opens doors.
I don’t raid, I barely fractal, and I suck beyond words at PvP and WvW.
But I try, and that’s what counts.
You only need 2 people for that part, and the rest is soloable. Depending on your classes there’s a lot of things to succeed. For exemple, if you have a thief, stealth it. If you have a guard, rotate through your damage mitigation skills. As a warrior, take warbanner for your friend/wife/ comrade, endure pain, defiant pain, shield, sword offhand. Any norn can take become the bear and enjoy the 60k hp. Elems, use earth shield, mist form, arcane shield, focus air 4, focus earth 4 and 5. Etc, and also remember to keep a weak mob at 5% hp to rally of it. Load party res utilities or self res utilities, and it’s really not that hard. If you’re EU, i could trio it with you as well. I find that part pretty interesting, i don’t want them to change that. For the zhaitan fight itself, anything better than spamming 2 for half a year will do.
I’d start by making it a little bit easier for smaller groups.
My wife and I are now stuck on the last step of our personal story, because we have no friends in game who are willing to, or of high enough level to help us.
I understand, dungeons are meant to be a challenge for a full team, but when we can’t complete it because we don’t have enough people for a team, it gets frustrating.
I’m not saying make the mobs easier, or the fights easier, by all means. Challenge away.
But requiring 2 people stand still on pressure plates with elite mobs spawning left, right, and center is a little overwhelming. Not only because Destiny’s Edge is completely useless in distracting the mobs, but the knockback, pull, and gang-banging from the one’s they can’t distract makes it no fun at all. We tried for over an hour to get past the first door last night and couldn’t. Sounds pathetic, I know. It wasn’t for lack of trying. The two of us can take the mobs or the door, but not both. So, my idea for redesigning it is not to make it easier, or shorter, or completely change it. My redesign is to make it more 2-man friendly, by leaving one person to distract the mobs, while one opens doors.
You do know the lfg-tool exists? It will greatly help you. There’s always someone who wants to do Arah story.
I would completely change the entire game’s storyline. I personally think that the personal story was good up until Victory or Death.
Arah storymode begins in Fort Trinity after the Source of Orr. 5 Player characters, all seen as pact commanders, meet with Destiny’s edge. Each player chooses a task they will do.
One player commands 15 pact airships to clear the way for the Glory of Tyria.
One player commands 10 pact submarines and 10 pact ships to enter the shipyard area in the cursed shore.
One player commands 15 pact tanks and 20ish pact fodder to enter the gates of Arah.
One player commands a stealth group that sets up Asuran gates inside Arah.
The last player fights alongside Destiny’s Edge on board the Glory of Tyria.
Each player will fight mostly solo alongside npcs until the final fight against Zhaitan.
All the airships, submarines, ships, tanks, and fodder return from Fort Trinity, by themselves, if they are lost/killed before the fight against Zhaitan to keep the storyline easier.
During the way to Arah, the risen ambushes the forces at random locations. It is up to the players to give each other backup support if they are losing a fight.
Each player will be ambushed by one boss during the fight to Arah.
The airship commander gets ambushed by Fafnarin the Heartslayer and other fodder dragons.
The sea commander gets ambushed by Ogravros the Moondeath and a few Risen on ships.
The ground commander gets ambushed by a mouth of Zhaitan.
Stealth group gets hit by a Risen Lich.
The Glory of Tyria doesn’t get ambushed by a boss but it has to support the other 4 players because the fights are unbeatable without the Glory’s support.
The way there is relatively short, only taking 30-40 mins because of how the Pact already cleared most of the way into Arah beforehand.
The sea commander leaves his command to join any of the other 4 commanders for their assault in Arah. 3 Big boss fights occur inside Arah.
Three very large Risen Giants – The players coordinate their pact troops to take down these giants. It’s not as easy as just reflecting their projectiles this time but it is a fairly casual fight.
At this point the stealth group sets up the Asuran gates. The stealth commander joins any of the other 3 commanders.
Atempancatli the Defender – The second in command of the Risen troops next to Zhaitan. About 2x the size of Tequatl. Leads a bunch of other dragons and risen ground troops. Pact reinforcements from the Asuran gates mostly keeps the risen ground troops at bay. Most of the fight is above Arah. A fairly difficult fight.
After the fight, Trahearne joins the fight by entering Arah through the Asuran gates. He runs over to the pact ships by the shipyard to prepare for a full scale retreat in case something goes wrong with the battle.
Zhaitan’s eye – A large flying eye of Zhaitan that was once King Doric. Summons many other flying eyes of Zhaitan that attacks the pact ships. Each eye has an identity of a previous king of Orr. This fight is incredibly easy and quick.
All this takes about 20-30 minutes. After the fight, Zhaitan appears and Zhaitan’s eye bonds with Zhaitan himself. Zhaitan immediately wipes out all 15 of the player commanded pact airships by crashing through them in a cinematic. The airship commander miraculously survives and joins the other players. The Glory of Tyria retreats to the ground to gain ground support from pact tanks. Many pact airships still exist in Arah but the ships are too busy fighting some other risen dragons to help the players at this time.
Zhaitan- phase 1
The Glory of Tyria prepares its ray gun while Zhaitan and his forces bombard the pact. The Glory has a shield that can block Zhaitan’s breath attack. Failure to block the breath results in a game over, forcing the players to restart at a checkpoint (the start of phase 1). The commander of the ground squad has to constantly launch artillery fire on Zhaitan and smoke screens near the Glory of Tyria to annoy Zhaitan enough to prevent him from crashing through the pact’s tanks and the Glory of Tyria which also results in a loss. While this is happening, risen ground troops and dragons attack. It is up to the players to defend the Glory of Tyria using the Glory’s cannons, the tanks, and good old fashioned fighting.
The ray cannon cuts off Zhaitan’s tail which makes Zhaitan crash into the ground. Without a tail, Zhaitan can’t seem to keep his balance enough for him to fly. Zhaitan gets mad and he launches a breath attack on the pact which wipes out the Glory of Tyria and all of the player commanded pact ground troops. The players all miraculously survive this attack but all members of Destiny’s Edge dies.
-continued-
Zhaitan- phase 2
The 5 players decide to retreat back to Trahearne’s location. Risen pact members, risen Destiny’s Edge, risen troops, dragons, and a flightless Zhaitan chases the players and tries to kill them. This part is pretty much a jumping puzzle.
At the shipyard, Trahearne uses his Caladborg to cleanse the risen forces attacking the players which kills all undead surrounding Zhaitan including Destiny’s Edge. This exhausts Trahearne to death. The pact ships and submarines attack Zhaitan. Zhaitan shields himself with his wings. He is now fighting alone against the players and the pact ships.
Zhaitan- phase 3
Zhaitan’s health bar appears. The players cannot damage Zhaitan.
The players must run into Zhaitan, sneak through his wings, and attack Zhaitan face to face. Their goal is to slice off one of Zhaitan’s wings so that the pact ships can finish him off. Zhaitan uses a few very telegraphed attacks on the players. The fight is similar to fighting Lupicus in melee except every attack by Zhaitan, except his projectile attacks, will put players in a defeated state. Zhaitan also uses some fairly rapid projectile attacks which hit around 3-5k on zerker light armor. The players have to slice off Zhaitan’s wing in less than 3 minutes otherwise Zhaitan will use his breath which forces players to restart back to the start of phase 3.
After Zhaitan’s wing is cut, the pact ships and submarines bombard Zhaitan which takes off 15% of his health. Zhaitan runs up to the ships and claws them all up. Now only the players and the 10 submarines remain.
Again, the players run into Zhaitan to cut off his other wing. While this is happening, the submarines attack Zhaitan dealing nearly no damage. This fight is similar to the last one except Zhaitan uses two new attacks. A dark well attack (4-7k per tick on light zerker), and a claw swipe (instantly defeated unless dodged). The wing has to be sliced off in less than 3 minutes otherwise Zhaitan will use his breath.
When the other wing is cut, Zhaitan dives underwater and eats up the 10 submarines. Zhaitan jumps back to shore and faces the 5 players. He vomits up some mangled risen pact soldiers to attack the players.
Now hopeless, the players decide to put up a final stand against the dragon by popping his eyes. Zhaitan uses a new set of moves that, like before, puts players in a defeated state if not dodged. In addition, Zhaitan periodically vomits up risen pact fodders. The claw attack, well attack, and projectile attack remains. The players have 5 minutes to destroy Zhaitan’s eyes before Zhaitan uses his breath. After four of Zhaitan’s eyes are destroyed, Zhaitan’s eye (King Doric) comes out of the dragon. The players must kill this eye to end Arah story.
-continued-
Once the final eye is defeated, Zhaitan screams and flails wildly seemingly trying to kill the players. The players figure that they completely blinded the dragon with that last eye. At that point, pact reinforcements from the sea, air, and ground miraculously appear. The air forces successfully defeated all of Zhaitan’s dragons. The ground forces managed to regroup after Trahearne’s Caladborg strike. More ships and submarines were previously ordered by Trahearne before his death while the players were fighting Zhaitan. The pact blows up Zhaitan from the air, ground, and sea. Zhaitan’s health goes from 80% to 0. The dragon’s head is chopped off to provide proof of its death.
The whole Zhaitan fight takes about 30-40 minutes. This part is by far the hardest part of Arah story. Due to this fight, Arah story is more difficult than any other dungeon path except perhaps TA aether path and Arah p4.
No one cheers after Zhaitan’s death. The pact lost over 80% of its troops during this fight and its leader Trahearne. This devastating battle leaves the player character to wonder about the future of the pact.
The end of personal story consists of the remaining pact soldiers carrying bodies back to their loved ones. A mass burial and memorial is set up in Fort Trinity. The player character is devastated by the battle and he/she simply wants to rest without the burden of an entire army to lead. In his/her speech to the pact, the player character refuses to lead the remains of the pact. The pact’s flag remains but the pact itself separates throughout the next few months.
Having the pact disband would explain why the pact wasn’t directly involved in Scarlet’s attack on Lion’s Arch. It also explains why the pact was nearly dormant for 2 years after Zhaitan’s death.
Arah storymode has an easy mode which lets players play through a cookie cutter version of this to get personal story credit. The easy mode only has standard storymode dungeon rewards. The normal mode gives Arah tokens and 3 gold upon completion much like the Arah explorable paths. In addition, an achievement and a title is awarded to players who complete this mission in normal mode without any restarts.
Yeah this is what I wish would have happened to Arah story.
First stage against the dragon body. Same as now, but instead of killing him outright, you blow off his wings and tail so he falls.
Second stage of the fight also against the dragon body. Similar to the Battle of Claw Island. Have Pact forces deploy siege lasers and artillery, which you have to defend while swarms of Orrians attack, and I mean swarms. Like Balthazar level swarms. Once deployed the siege start beating back the swarms and battering at Zhaitan’s body until he falls. If the lasers are destroyed during that fight, Zhaitan regrows his wings and you retreat to the Glory of Tyria to shoot him down again. Once you succeed, the siege lasers rip his body open to reveal…!
Third stage. Inside the dragon body is the “core” body, the Great Eye of Zhaitan much like the one you fight during the Pact mission but bigger and more powerful. To defeat the Eye, you have to over charge the lasers so that they form a big reflecting shield that reflects a powerful stunning beam attack back on to the Eye which will disable it for a while. Your party then has to charge in and bash it, or use the siege artillery, while also fending off Risen who port in to defend the Eye. The whole time, lots of Risen spawn so your party and the Pact forces have to use siege artillery to defend your position.
Defeating a dragon should be an epic encounter