Guild Wars 2

especially now that it means downing a major boss gives you garbage loot. I understand this was a way to reward everyone but to take the excitement and the anticipation of the possibility of a rare drop out of the equation really disappoints me.

instead i just see stuff coming out of the chests in these dungeons as wastes of bag space.

I hope in future dungeons you change this philosophy.

Or a minipet, or something.

Its like ANET never played a MMO before and didnt know the vast majority of people dont do dungeons over and over again simply to collect tokens to buy stuff later.

They forgot about the whole “chance at getting rare loot ANYTIME is actually fun” rule. Oh yeah, and they said GW2 wasn’t a grind…HA HA.

Actually we are doing them over and over again for fun and tokens. I’m just saying occasional surprise drops would be nice in there, too.

Hrm…don’t you get, on average, three chests per dungeon? And pre-patch, didn’t the tokens take an item slot from each chest?

Now tokens are a standalone reward for dungeon completion and those slots have been opened up to be anything from the chests loot table, and you have body-drop loot from the bosses.

So…you should be getting more more loot from the dungeons now: drops, three chests, 60 tokens (vs. 30 max pre-patch), and 26 silver (vs. 5(?) pre-patch). For about 40 minutes of your time.

Sans getting an Orr run where DE timing works out in your favor and you get lucky with a lot of drops and magic find, dungeons are about the most rewarding thing you can do post 80 for time/effort required.

A dev posted that, in the next dungeon patch, that will be addressed, I’ll try to look for the thread and post it here. If I rememeber correctly it said bosses will drop token and they will have a loot table.

edit: Found it:
link

Doing dungeons over and over again for a chance of loot isnt fun. Never was, never will be. Would much rather do a dungeon knowing at minimum I am going to get something worth my time.

Parisalchuk.9230:

Doing dungeons over and over again for a chance of loot isnt fun. Never was, never will be. Would much rather do a dungeon knowing at minimum I am going to get something worth my time.

Nothing wrong with having it both ways. You should get tokens a the end and a chance for rare drops of the all the bosses. Best of both worlds

Josher.9612:

Its like ANET never played a MMO before and didnt know the vast majority of people dont do dungeons over and over again simply to collect tokens to buy stuff later.

They forgot about the whole “chance at getting rare loot ANYTIME is actually fun” rule. Oh yeah, and they said GW2 wasn’t a grind…HA HA.

How is having a chance of rare loot as incentive not a grind?
Looking at the feedback on these forums about the precursor for legendary weapons and the associated RNG luck to get it, how would rare dungeon drops with low droprates have any more positive reaction?
Didn’t you get the message hating on anything involving RNG is the new cool thing?

Parisalchuk.9230:

Doing dungeons over and over again for a chance of loot isnt fun. Never was, never will be. Would much rather do a dungeon knowing at minimum I am going to get something worth my time.

Totally agree, why A.Net Devs did not do what every other MMO on the market does for dungeons is BEYOND me. Really was a epic fail on their part. The tokens is fine but really a very low “chance” at usable loot from a boss is mind boggling. It has been proven that players like killing bosses and getting shiny stuff. They actually turned running dungeons into even more of a grind then other games since your only doing the dungeon for tokens to get skins.

This issue is why I do not do dungeons at all. I will not spend 40+ hrs running the same dungeon to just get some skins. If I could at least get the same token for ALL dungeons and cool stuff from boss kills then maybe I would take the time to do it. Otherwise you time is better spent farming mats to craft exotics or money to buy them.

I did read the linked Dev post about adding more rewards from bosses. That Dev sure did not make it sound like we are going to get anything worth while. At least from this statement he made it sure sounds like it:

“I at least want you to walk away with something more than a repair bill and some random blues, and folks here are working on that very thing.”

Blues? Come on, killing a boss should guarantee at least a rare with a 10% chance at one of the dungeon set exotics. ALL the dungeon set exotics should have a chance at dropping from bosses. There should be more methods to obtain these instead of just farming 1600 tokens from the same dungeon.

If A.Net takes the time to do this stuff and make these changes then I think they would get even more PvE participation from players. I know I would be more inclined to do some dungeons. As it is at 80 all I do is WvW and sPvP because PvE is a joke.

holska.4127:

Josher.9612:

Its like ANET never played a MMO before and didnt know the vast majority of people dont do dungeons over and over again simply to collect tokens to buy stuff later.

They forgot about the whole “chance at getting rare loot ANYTIME is actually fun” rule. Oh yeah, and they said GW2 wasn’t a grind…HA HA.

How is having a chance of rare loot as incentive not a grind?
Looking at the feedback on these forums about the precursor for legendary weapons and the associated RNG luck to get it, how would rare dungeon drops with low droprates have any more positive reaction?
Didn’t you get the message hating on anything involving RNG is the new cool thing?

You got what he said wrong.

In every single other MMO that has dungeons its not a chance, a rare is a guaranteed drop. The chance is whether you win the roll over another party member, which is very high. GW2 is the only MMO with dungeons I have ever played that does not guarantee rare loot from bosses.

You spend say 3 hrs running dungeons your pretty much just walking away with tokens and some money. In other MMOs you spend 3 hrs running dungeons you walk away with Tokens, Money AND (unless your really unlucky) some cool loot.

It really takes the " o boy I downed a boss wonder if I’ll get something cool for doing it factor right out of the game." A factor I quite miss.

You get like three chests along the way….? Of all the things to gripe about…they just handed you a large piece of an exotic….and you gripe about it.

Mog

You got what he said wrong.

In every single other MMO that has dungeons its not a chance, a rare is a guaranteed drop. The chance is whether you win the roll over another party member, which is very high. GW2 is the only MMO with dungeons I have ever played that does not guarantee rare loot from bosses.

You spend say 3 hrs running dungeons your pretty much just walking away with tokens and some money. In other MMOs you spend 3 hrs running dungeons you walk away with Tokens, Money AND (unless your really unlucky) some cool loot.

I was being sarcastic but still with a serious undertone.
And every single other mmo? How about LOTRO? There’s rare jewelry drops in every single dungeon, raid and skirmish raid at max. level that have a low droprate and on top of that have to be rolled for.
Don’t remember other examples from top of my head but I remember more mmo’s that had rare drops with a dropchance, a loot table that was randomly pulled from, and I’ve played every single major mmo released since 1999.
I also remember for the items that did drop guaranteed like armour pcs. or barter coins occasions where I didn’t manage to win the roll before the next patch that made the item obsolete was going live despite running them on average daily.

Also the person I quoted wrote “chance at getting rare loot ANYTIME is actually fun”
Notice the word chance in that sentence? That implies he’s not talking about guaranteed drops

Hickeroar.9734:

You get like three chests along the way….? Of all the things to gripe about…they just handed you a large piece of an exotic….and you gripe about it.

Its boring to farm for tokens, i’d rather run the thing 5 times hopeing for a drop than 5 times collecting tokens. And the chest are garbage.

wookie slayer.4259:

Hickeroar.9734:

You get like three chests along the way….? Of all the things to gripe about…they just handed you a large piece of an exotic….and you gripe about it.

Its boring to farm for tokens, i’d rather run the thing 5 times hopeing for a drop than 5 times collecting tokens. And the chest are garbage.

What in the world would you expect? In “the other game,” You get the same thing. Tokens for use in armor….except you need a LOT more of them than GW2 provides. That means MORE farming for tokens. Tokens….and LESS loot (which is also useless for most players) which you have to roll for.

You’re griping about a non-issue that ANet has made easier in their game than any other MMO. :rolleyes:

holska.4127:

Mog

You got what he said wrong.

In every single other MMO that has dungeons its not a chance, a rare is a guaranteed drop. The chance is whether you win the roll over another party member, which is very high. GW2 is the only MMO with dungeons I have ever played that does not guarantee rare loot from bosses.

You spend say 3 hrs running dungeons your pretty much just walking away with tokens and some money. In other MMOs you spend 3 hrs running dungeons you walk away with Tokens, Money AND (unless your really unlucky) some cool loot.

I was being sarcastic but still with a serious undertone.
And every single other mmo? How about LOTRO? There’s rare jewelry drops in every single dungeon, raid and skirmish raid at max. level that have a low droprate and on top of that have to be rolled for. Don’t remember other examples from top of my head but I remember more mmo’s that had rare drops with a dropchance, a loot table that was randomly pulled from, and I’ve played every single major mmo released since 1999.
I also remember for the items that did drop guaranteed like armour pcs. or barter coins that I didn’t manage to win the roll before the next patch that made the item obsolete was going live on some occasions.

You maybe mis-understanding what I say. Every single MMO with good PvE provides loot to the group when you kill a boss in a dungeon, guaranteed loot! In most MMOs it is a Rare item and in some cases and Epic item.

For example RIFT and WoW, you run a dungeon and you will kill maybe 3-5 bosses and at the end of the run 3-5 pieces of epic or rare loot have dropped from the boss meaning the majority of the players in that party just walked away with a rare peace of gear they could use. On top of this you get the tokens to encourage those that do not need the gear to run the dungeon anyway.

Its a very very simple system that has proven to be a success. Why A.Net did not do this is again beyond me and mind boggling. They have turned dungeons in this game into the worst possible grind.

Mog.1589:

holska.4127:

Mog

You got what he said wrong.

In every single other MMO that has dungeons its not a chance, a rare is a guaranteed drop. The chance is whether you win the roll over another party member, which is very high. GW2 is the only MMO with dungeons I have ever played that does not guarantee rare loot from bosses.

You spend say 3 hrs running dungeons your pretty much just walking away with tokens and some money. In other MMOs you spend 3 hrs running dungeons you walk away with Tokens, Money AND (unless your really unlucky) some cool loot.

I was being sarcastic but still with a serious undertone.
And every single other mmo? How about LOTRO? There’s rare jewelry drops in every single dungeon, raid and skirmish raid at max. level that have a low droprate and on top of that have to be rolled for. Don’t remember other examples from top of my head but I remember more mmo’s that had rare drops with a dropchance, a loot table that was randomly pulled from, and I’ve played every single major mmo released since 1999.
I also remember for the items that did drop guaranteed like armour pcs. or barter coins that I didn’t manage to win the roll before the next patch that made the item obsolete was going live on some occasions.

You maybe mis-understanding what I say. Every single MMO with good PvE provides loot to the group when you kill a boss in a dungeon, guaranteed loot! In most MMOs it is a Rare item and in some cases and Epic item.

For example RIFT and WoW, you run a dungeon and you will kill maybe 3-5 bosses and at the end of the run 3-5 pieces of epic or rare loot have dropped from the boss meaning the majority of the players in that party just walked away with a rare peace of gear they could use. On top of this you get the tokens to encourage those that do not need the gear to run the dungeon anyway.

Its a very very simple system that has proven to be a success. Why A.Net did not do this is again beyond me and mind boggling. They have turned dungeons in this game into the worst possible grind.

You’re talking about rare as item quality. I’m talking about the actual meaning of the word rare. The rare items you mention aren’t rare

I like the way it is and I love running the dungeons the way they are and they need to stop making stuff easier because of crybabies.

Hickeroar.9734:

wookie slayer.4259:

Hickeroar.9734:

You get like three chests along the way….? Of all the things to gripe about…they just handed you a large piece of an exotic….and you gripe about it.

Its boring to farm for tokens, i’d rather run the thing 5 times hopeing for a drop than 5 times collecting tokens. And the chest are garbage.

What in the world would you expect? In “the other game,” You get the same thing. Tokens for use in armor….except you need a LOT more of them than GW2 provides. That means MORE farming for tokens. Tokens….and LESS loot (which is also useless for most players) which you have to roll for.

You’re griping about a non-issue that ANet has made easier in their game than any other MMO. :rolleyes:

Your naive to think that GW2 has good rewards for running dungeons compared to other games. Your naive as well to assume A.Net has made it “easier” than any other MMO to get a dungeon set.

What the above poster was saying is he wants a high chance to walk out of a dungeon with a peace of loot and tokens. Not just tokens.

Go run a dungeon in RIFT or WoW or TSW or TERA or SWTOR. When your done one of the dungeons in those games you walk away with tokens, money and a peace of rare loot that you can use. The tokens in those games are there to provide rewards for those that A] Do not need gear or B] those that were not lucky and lost all their rolls.

Now you can say in GW2 there is no gear progression because you can easily acquire the best loot in the game. Well they could then instead make it so cool exotic looks drop in the dungeons. I would be happy if killing a boss guarantees me a Rare that I can then sell/salvage and a decent chance at a Dungeon Exotic set peace.

The fact that I look at a dungeon and I can immediately do some math and figure its gonna take me 40+ hrs to get that set turns dungeons into a horrible grind/farmfest. If I knew that I could cut that 40+ hr grind down because ALL bosses have a 10% chance to drop one of the set peaces then it would be easier to stomach that grind. Knowing that I would also get a Rare from every boss would make me feel better to because then I know I will be able to sell it or salvage it and get some nice mats.

holska.4127:

You’re talking about rare as item quality. I’m talking about the actual meaning of the word rare. The rare items you mention aren’t rare

Oic, yes I agree there should be like a 10% chance from every boss in GW2 dungeons to drop a peace of the dungeon set associated with it.

Mog.1589:

holska.4127:

You’re talking about rare as item quality. I’m talking about the actual meaning of the word rare. The rare items you mention aren’t rare

Oic, yes I agree there should be like a 10% chance from every boss in GW2 dungeons to drop a peace of the dungeon set associated with it.

That would be a bad idea and will never happen. Defeats the purpose of tokens.

Mog.1589:

Hickeroar.9734:

wookie slayer.4259:

Hickeroar.9734:

You get like three chests along the way….? Of all the things to gripe about…they just handed you a large piece of an exotic….and you gripe about it.

Its boring to farm for tokens, i’d rather run the thing 5 times hopeing for a drop than 5 times collecting tokens. And the chest are garbage.

What in the world would you expect? In “the other game,” You get the same thing. Tokens for use in armor….except you need a LOT more of them than GW2 provides. That means MORE farming for tokens. Tokens….and LESS loot (which is also useless for most players) which you have to roll for.

You’re griping about a non-issue that ANet has made easier in their game than any other MMO. :rolleyes:

Your naive to think that GW2 has good rewards for running dungeons compared to other games. Your naive as well to assume A.Net has made it “easier” than any other MMO to get a dungeon set.

What the above poster was saying is he wants a high chance to walk out of a dungeon with a peace of loot and tokens. Not just tokens.

Go run a dungeon in RIFT or WoW or TSW or TERA or SWTOR. When your done one of the dungeons in those games you walk away with tokens, money and a peace of rare loot that you can use. The tokens in those games are there to provide rewards for those that A] Do not need gear or B] those that were not lucky and lost all their rolls.

Now you can say in GW2 there is no gear progression because you can easily acquire the best loot in the game. Well they could then instead make it so cool exotic looks drop in the dungeons. I would be happy if killing a boss guarantees me a Rare that I can then sell/salvage and a decent chance at a Dungeon Exotic set peace.

The fact that I look at a dungeon and I can immediately do some math and figure its gonna take me 40+ hrs to get that set turns dungeons into a horrible grind/farmfest. If I knew that I could cut that 40+ hr grind down because ALL bosses have a 10% chance to drop one of the set peaces then it would be easier to stomach that grind. Knowing that I would also get a Rare from every boss would make me feel better to because then I know I will be able to sell it or salvage it and get some nice mats.

I’m naive?

You apparently haven’t played any of the games you’re talking about because…I have….and you certainly don’t get a piece of rare or useable loot on most dungeon runs.

Running heroic dungeons in WoW will often yield nothing more than a green, blue, or higher that is still far inferior that what you’re already wearing.

In order to get a piece of Tier armor in WoW, for instance (which makes it easier than just about anything else other than GW2), you need AT LEAST 1600VP. Most of the good stuff is 2200…and a lot of it you can’t even get without farming raids, hoping you get a random drop and roll a winning bid for it after the 6 hours it took you to get to that point. The VP is also capped weekly at 1000, so you can’t even farm for this stuff past a certain point.

In GW2, you run (at the most) 390 divided by 60 tokens, walk to a dealer, and pick up your gear.

I have no idea what game you’re playing, but it certainly isn’t GW2 if you think those other games make getting good gear easier than this.

Don’t call me naive when you clearly don’t have a clue what you’re talking about.

Zenith.1234:

Mog.1589:

holska.4127:

You’re talking about rare as item quality. I’m talking about the actual meaning of the word rare. The rare items you mention aren’t rare

Oic, yes I agree there should be like a 10% chance from every boss in GW2 dungeons to drop a peace of the dungeon set associated with it.

That would be a bad idea and will never happen. Defeats the purpose of tokens.

It does not defeat the purpose at all. You will still end up buying some peaces of gear. Having a drop chances just reduces the time to grind out tokens. Instead of grinding out 6 peaces you may only have to grind tokens for 4.

Yeah, they already buffed rewards because of the QQ about them not being rewarding enough. We got:
- more chest loot
- character level appropriate loot tables
- twice as many tokens per run
- tokens made account bound
- 5x as much silver for completion

Now people want more. It’s amazing.

Hickeroar.9734:

I’m naive?

You apparently haven’t played any of the games you’re talking about because…I have….and you certainly don’t get a piece of rare or useable loot on most dungeon runs.

Running heroic dungeons in WoW will often yield nothing more than a green, blue, or higher that is still far inferior that what you’re already wearing.

In order to get a piece of Tier armor in WoW, for instance (which makes it easier than just about anything else other than GW2), you need AT LEAST 1600VP. Most of the good stuff is 2200…and a lot of it you can’t even get without farming raids, hoping you get a random drop and roll a winning bid for it after the 6 hours it took you to get to that point. The VP is also capped weekly at 1000, so you can’t even farm for this stuff past a certain point.

In GW2, you run (at the most) 390 divided by 60 tokens, walk to a dealer, and pick up your gear.

I have no idea what game you’re playing, but it certainly isn’t GW2 if you think those other games make getting good gear easier than this.

Don’t call me naive when you clearly don’t have a clue what you’re talking about.

Lol you are naive. You are completely missing the point of my posts and arguing about something I am not even talking about. Re-read what I wrote and maybe maybe you will get it.

AcidicVision.5498:

Yeah, they already buffed rewards because of the QQ about them not being rewarding enough. We got:
- more chest loot
- character level appropriate loot tables
- twice as many tokens per run
- tokens made account bound
- 5x as much silver for completion

Now people want more. It’s amazing.

Only thing that I have asked for is the loot from bosses to drop minimally Rare quality loot with a low chance at an exotic.

Zenith.1234:

Mog.1589:

holska.4127:

You’re talking about rare as item quality. I’m talking about the actual meaning of the word rare. The rare items you mention aren’t rare

Oic, yes I agree there should be like a 10% chance from every boss in GW2 dungeons to drop a peace of the dungeon set associated with it.

That would be a bad idea and will never happen. Defeats the purpose of tokens.

It doesn’t defeat anything. It just lets people get SOMETHING they want each run instead of having to do it 10X to get 1 thing they want. Add in that the stats on the gear that like the looks of isn’t what you want, so you have to buy Exotic gear just to transmute., or craft them which is also a massive grind.

Basically, PvE at 80 for a casual, consists of grinding dungeons for what could be months, just to get armor that actually looks good. For a Necro, its basically 1 set that’s even appropriate. Now this would be fine if it actually took 4-6 months to get to max level like it did in WOW at release. But I hit 80 in less than a month and I play a lot less now than I did back in 04. That’s too kitten FAST. I enjoyed the ride for sure. Don’t get me wrong, but progression just hit a giant wall at 80. VERY disappointing.

Here’s an idea!
Why don’t we all just pretend we’re NOT playing World of Warcraft, and instead are playing a DIFFERENT game with DIFFERENT mechanics? Let’s make up some fun name for it – oh I don’t know, GUILD WARS 2. I threw a number in the end for the heck of it, cause nobody’s ever heard of GW1.

Now that we’re pretending to NOT be playing WoW, and instead are playing Guild Wars 2, let’s all pretend that we WANT to try out new mechanics, and not get more of the same dirt that drove us away from Blizzard in the first place.

Good idea?

Hughs.6549:

Arenanet said gw2 would be for BOTH casuals and “hardcore” gamers

You can’t design a game that would sit 100% with all types of players; you know that just as well as I do. Don’t pretend you were expecting some magical pony from fairygameland to come pick you up and fly across the sky with you.

They copied what they thought was good, they redesigned what they thought was bad. Here you are crying for an exact duplicate of all the other MMOs out there on the market – now tell me, why did you leave those other MMOs, and why are you asking for this one to be the same?

Hughs.6549:

They lied,

Good lord, will you people grow up and stop saying this juvenile cliche?

Nobody LIED.

Cripe.

Here’s another idea…if you don’t enjoy the dungeons, don’t do them. If you don’t want tokens, then doubly don’t do the dungeons.

If you do enjoy dungeons, then do them because you enjoy them and get the tokens, chests, and silver as a byproduct of doing something you though was interesting and engaging.

I don’t get the mentality of people saying they don’t like dungeons that can take upwards of an hour, but would do it if the boss dropped a gold. Are you kittening mad-cap? Why would you do something you don’t think is fun or interesting for an hour just for a chance to get an item?

Lets break it down…

1. Arenanet adds higher gold drop chance to dungeons…
   - people get mad they aren’t always level 80.
   - people get mad the drop isn’t always for their class.
   - people with exotics complain it’s not useful to them and they want better loot.
2. Arenanet adds higher chance of exotic drop…
   - people get mad the exotics aren’t for their class
   - the game wide trading post is flooded with exotics and looted or crafted item value crashes
   - they get mined for the runes and rune item value crashes
   - All other ways to get exotics are obsolete since they all require more investment than say…cof path 2.
3. Arenanet has boss drop a piece of dungeon armor…
   - Token system is completely obsolete.
   - Drops have to be account/soulbound to keep them somewhat unique
   - People complain drops should be for their class
   - People complain drops for their class are useless because they want the armor for another character…
   - Dungeon armor is common enough to equip every alt with max gear in a weekends time
   - Was is supposed to be the third most unique tier of armor in the game is no longer unique

See? People will always be unhappy, and the things they want to make them happy would make other people unhappy. And trying to make everyone happy they make everything so easy to do and so easy to acquire that everyone posts in general topic that they have everything and there is nothing to work for and the game is dead.

It amazes me how people expect to be able to completely max their characters 2 months into the game, and whine about anything that takes a little longer than that. The funniest bit, is that if ANet WERE to cave in and give them what they want, they’d be here whining they got nothing to do.

Dungeons are fun the first few times. After that they just become a grind. GW2 made this grind even worse by making you run the SAME dungeon for 40+ hours to get a set of cool looking gear.

The point is there are no alternatives to getting cool looking gear. Its grind the kitten out of the same dungeon or to bad.

I am not asking them to take that away. I am asking them to cut it back some and add other alternatives. Give the players a chance to get some cool kitten FROM the dungeon other then tokens. kitten they could make a few new sets that you can ONLY get from Dungeon drops. That would make running the dungeons for hours upon hours a little more exciting.

They could add more cool looking sets to WvW that could possibly drop from loot bags or be purchased with badges. They could make some cool Dynamic Event sets that drop from completing event chains.

The whole kitten point is if you want a cool set you gotta spend a kitten ton of hours running the same kittening dungeon. I like to run dungeons a few times not a hundred.

Amnon.4769:

Here’s an idea!
Why don’t we all just pretend we’re NOT playing World of Warcraft, and instead are playing a DIFFERENT game with DIFFERENT mechanics? Let’s make up some fun name for it – oh I don’t know, GUILD WARS 2. I threw a number in the end for the heck of it, cause nobody’s ever heard of GW1.

Now that we’re pretending to NOT be playing WoW, and instead are playing Guild Wars 2, let’s all pretend that we WANT to try out new mechanics, and not get more of the same dirt that drove us away from Blizzard in the first place.

Good idea?

hahaha … I was thinking the same thing as I read through this thread. Almost every post is a comparison of some sort to systems used in other games.

Why must we continue trying to make this game into another game?

In this game, we get tokens that allows everyone the capability of buying the specific gear they want in time, thereby effectively eliminating the depressing feeling that the majority gets when they lose rolls for gear they desperately want but continue losing to other more fortune group members. I think this is a good thing. It is by design, the intended effect Anet wants for this game. Yet some are not content with it because it isn’t the experience they have been accustomed to with other games. So that the end result is ultimately that of “the more things change, the more things stay the same.”

Having said that, IMO the linked thread had a legitimate issue in that there were no rewards unless the dungeon was completed. So the Dev came on, acknowledge the credible complaint, and then set out to fix it by providing for a reward for those who invested time without reward. This has quickly changed from an issue of not receiving rewards for time invested, to one of “we want lots more shiny.”

Devs need to realize the dynamic at play here and stick to their vision for GW2. Sometimes its more an issue of changing mindsets for the better, thank letting mindsets change you for the worse.

Hughs.6549:

Stark.1350

This is how the new generation is, Amnon. They want everything handed to them with minimal effort and time invested.

That’s exactly the opposite we’re asking : More challenge that leads to more rewards, less faceroll, less stupid grind for nothing.

So, that’s EXACTLY what you’re asking for…
Less time for more loot.

Mog.1589:

Dungeons are fun the first few times. After that they just become a grind. GW2 made this grind even worse by making you run the SAME dungeon for 40+ hours to get a set of cool looking gear….

The point is there are no alternatives to getting cool looking gear. Its grind the kitten out of the same dungeon or to bad.

Give the players a chance to get some cool kitten FROM the dungeon other then tokens. kitten they could make a few new sets that you can ONLY get from Dungeon drops. …

The whole kitten point is if you want a cool set you gotta spend a kitten ton of hours running the same kittening dungeon. I like to run dungeons a few times not a hundred.

You are disagreeing with yourself. You say the dungeons would be better with a “chance” of getting another rare dungeon skin from drops.

But then say you only want to run dungeons a few times.

Adding a chance to get different dungeon skins from drops still wouldn’t make you happy because it would still be a rare drop at the very least.

So, you dont want to run a dungeon for 40 collective hours, unless that dungeon has a chance to drop gear instead of tokens? Even though it’s entirely possible that you end up with enough tokens to buy a piece of gear, well before one ever drops.

Either that or you want a guaranteed rare armor drop for a unique dungeon skin every time you run the dungeon. Only having to do it six times. BUT…chances are against you getting a piece you dont already have, as you get more pieces. Meaning youll end up repeating the dungeon anyways.

Unless you mean you want them to program it specially to give you a rare piece of unique gear every time you run a dungeon and you only get pieces you don’t already have so you never have to repeat the dungeon more than necessary.

See how this is getting silly? WHy don’t you just say you only want to do SM of dungeons and you want Anet to just give you dungeon armor to save you time.

At least with tokens you know how many runs it will take you to get the exact thing you want. No more. No less. You are guaranteed to meet your goal on your schedule instead of being at the whims of an RNG. If I want a rare dungeon helm I know I can get it in three runs. In most other games if I want a rare dungeon helm I may have to farm that dungeon for weeks before I ever even see it, and then I still have to compete for it with other players.

You said “less faceroll, less grinding”. In English, this means “less time invested”.
There are 3 ways gear can be done:

The “gift” way – you do a dungeon, your item drops, whoopy-doo you get your full set based on the RNG.

The token way – you do a dungeon, you get paid in tokens. You have to run X amount of times to get a full set. This X is always the same, and can be calculated.

The first way is BS. The second way is what GW has, and I think it’s good – you don’t, you want the first way, like WoW has.

Then there’s another way… a third option. Things drop in dungeons, but they’re only a part of making your armor; you’d need to complete certain tasks to finish the rest of it. Perhaps compete against a challenging boss solo, or gather X amount of resources, but there should be some additional challenge as opposed to pure RNG.

In the end, we don’t WANT every single player to be running around in full gear sets – because that would make them worthless.

Stark.1350:

This is how the new generation is, Amnon. They want everything handed to them with minimal effort and time invested.

I remember spending months and months getting my cleric epic weapon in Everquest. None of the players today would survive that game anymore.

There are more people with active real lives that play these games then those who spend 6+ hrs a day playing the game. That is why people want stuff a little faster. Its called growing up.

The crowd of people who spent months farming for a peace of gear in Everquest are now in their 30s and 40s. They now have careers and families. So they do not want to spend months and months trying to get a single item.

Hughs.6549:

Nope, i said less grinding FOR NOTHING, don’t try to change my words.

You get tokens, that’s not nothing – you use them to buy armor sets. Are you simply misinformed, or was your argument knowingly false?

Stark.1350:

So maybe, Mog, MMO’s just aren’t for those people anymore. Even the most casual player can get a full set of exotics and top end gear – heck, I spent 10 gold and I’m fully decked out.

I would WELCOME another Everquest type game and I am “all grown up” – to me, it’s quite fun completing something and not seeing EVERYONE on the server walking around with the same kitten thing.

The debate is not about acquiring exotics. That can be done easily. The debate is about running the same dungeon to just get tokens. I am also debating how the dungeons lack any chance at some cool stuff.

There are items you can get that a very very small percentage of people will have. That is a Legendary. I think that is great and they should exist for those who can and are willing to spend the time to grind it out.

Mog.1589:

There are more people with active real lives that play these games then those who spend 6+ hrs a day playing the game. That is why people want stuff a little faster. Its called growing up.

Well, as one of those “grown up” persons with a full-time job who can only play a few hours during evenings: I say I want a challenging game, where reward is provided to me based on the effort I put into it.

There is no point in having cool-looking armor if everyone has the same. Casuals don’t deserve freebies because they “don’t have the time”, they should put in the same amount of effort and simply receive rewards at a slower pace.

“I Really don’t like getting only Tokens from dungeons.” – I concur

Hughs.6549:

Don’t you know that after a month of playing, most of us have already no use of these tokens ? Are you misinformed, or … ?

Then with an RNG system, once you got the full set, you STILL wouldn’t have any useful drops from that dungeon. It absolutely doesn’t matter.

I’m starting to think your argument is dishonest.

Amnon.4769:

Hughs.6549:

Nope, i said less grinding FOR NOTHING, don’t try to change my words.

You get tokens, that’s not nothing – you use them to buy armor sets. Are you simply misinformed, or was your argument knowingly false?

You are not understanding his argument at all. He never said the tokens were nothing. He never said to get rid of them. He only wants a little more wow factor involved in the dungeons.

He wants some awe or excitement like “OMG look at what dropped <insert cool looking exotic>”

Dungeons as is are yawn “Omg here we go another hour of the same kitten just to get the same tokens.” yawn

Now let me ask you this, what is wrong with that. You cannot actually tell me that you would not like there to be some chances at getting some cool stuff from bosses. Do you seriously enjoy doing the same repetitive dungeon for 40 hrs?

How is running the same dungeon a dozen times challenging Amnon? The dungeons are no wear near challenging PvE content. They are in fact pretty kitten simple and easy.

The only “challenge” is fighting the onset of boredom because I have to do the same dungeon dozens of times without any sort of excitement to get some stupid tokens.

Why do you care so much about how you look compared to others? Are you still 18? I care about how MY character looks. I couldn’t care less if a billion other people look the same as me. Your statement is naive and shows you just like to stroke your kitten. Grow up.

All i’m asking for is challenge, and some excitement for playing these dungeons. I can’t be more honest than this : p

Allow me to put it in simpler terms:
Chance of getting something – bad
Knowing you’ll get something with enough effort – good

Amnon.4769:

Allow me to put it in simpler terms:
Chance of getting something – bad
Knowing you’ll get something with enough effort – good

So tell me how is chance at getting something PLUS knowing you’ll get something for your effort bad? Explain that to me.

You realize that I have been arguing for the above this entire thread and not once have I said to remove tokens. This thread is about adding MORE then just tokens. Comprehension my friend.

Mog, perhaps you’d notice I wasn’t arguing with you, and Hughs said he wanted gear drops.