Guild Wars 2

…and then look at one aspect of what you have given us.
I truly honestly think you have given us a an amazing game. But I read that article and I can honestly say my jaw dropped and eyebrows rose to Victor Meldrew proportions!

I tried AC (storymode) last night for the first time. (yes I know, I am slow, I like to level all five of my characters not just one) I was amazed at this content and not in a good way. The main gripe for me is the trash mobs. They have massive health pools and are like bosses. I honestly thought the three rangers was a boss fight. I went in with just over one gold and came out with 50 silver! The bosses were ok, tough but fun. The group disbanded at the lovers though, by then the group had lost heart and the will to live. I was in there for two hours or so and we only down two bosses. It reminded me of the bad old days of raiding in other MMOs hours upon hours of tedious humdrum.
I can almost hear the keyboard clatter of the fan-boys typing now “learn to dodge” and “learn to play” I could care less for such drivel. Please anet take a look at some aspects of this dungeon. It is meant to be fun this game no? If many peoples first experience of you dungeon content is like I had then people will simply turn away from it. Which is just what I am going to do until I see something in the patch notes along the lines of “Swung a cricket bat at AC, players should now check it out again”

TL:DR
The trash is way OP and if you prefer melee playstyle forget it, in AC or any Boss in this game for that matter.
Dungeons take way too long. I should not have to wait until I have best in slot for lvl 30 in order to complete it when it is the first, and an introduction to, 5man structured content.

There are many good treads on this forum that express better than I about how the content need sorting. Please take into account what the fanboys say, they have a right too, but do the same for the people that are not so happy.
Come on Anet, you promised more than this and then brag about it in articles like the one cited.

I say, nerf story mode so people who refuse to learn can finish them. Buff explo modes so there would be actually some challenging content in the game, cause as of right now, there are only 2 or 3 explo paths in the whole game that can be called “challenging” the rest.. is way to easy.

Also please excuse me, but considering how almost every weapon in the game offers CC, I really don’t know how people manage to die on trash mobs. Entertaining.

REFUSE to learn? It’d be nice if there were anything in game other than death after death after death after death that could teach us.

Disclaimer: I love this game, this is my only (minor) gripe with it so far. Good, now we can debate properly

Hmm.. maybe that was bit of flamebate’ish of me but still. I can agree that there are people who struggle with dungeons, but it is also a fact that MANY people not only finish the successfully but also farm explo with ease.

Hmm.. maybe that was bit of flamebate’ish of me but still. I can agree that there are people who struggle with dungeons, but it is also a fact that MANY people not only finish the successfully but also farm explo with ease.That means.. people who can’t manage them and those who are being one-shotted:
- did not change their builds upon entering the dungeon
- do not use potions
- don’t use food buffs
- they use all out gear without any defensive stats
- did not make sure that their group have buffs like Stability, Time warp, Protection or Aegis to name a few
- have no idea about how conditions and boons work

Hmm.. maybe that was bit of flamebate’ish of me but still. I can agree that there are people who struggle with dungeons, but it is also a fact that MANY people not only finish the successfully but also farm explo with ease.That means.. people who can’t manage them and those who are being one-shotted:
- did not change their builds upon entering the dungeon
- do not use potions
- don’t use food buffs
- they use all out gear without any defensive stats
- did not make sure that their group have buffs like Stability, Time warp, Protection or Aegis to name a few
- have no idea about how conditions and boons workThat’s why I have a right to say that they refuse to learn. The above is not some secret knowledge, it should be common sense for people who play video games as a hobby. If you don’t want to put even that little effort in your hobby.. why waste time on it anyway?

I am finding that in some dungeons there are simple ways around these mobs. NOW I am no expert. So if you want to pick this apart then be my guest. Just offering some friendly suggestions, that we have found works:)
I agree with creepjack and being prepared with food buffs and the right weapons for situations and a good make up.
Take CM for instance on explore mode. For some great ways to get around stuff. Looking for the butler option I think it is.
First mobs are quite kite-able and do tend to target the first person to attack, so a melee is handy with a Eli/Necro heal comb they are easy to keep up. Along with Eli’s dropping vulnerability!! This is essential.
We found that the eli could easily take out the ranged (in all corridors and the long one after the 2nd boss with the traps) as their ranged was be far better than the npcs, we just sat down and waited this she was finished.
We ran around the large mobs.
We stood under scaffolding to take out ranged above us etc etc
Test out some things, we were surprised how easy that dungeon was when we mixed up our weapons and took in a good support combo team.
Then TA, we again used the eli range to take out far npcs, ran around the dogs. 2nd boss we got the eli to kite the spiders in air and we all took out the boss. We waited to see if there were pats before running in etc.
Most people who have done these now have some great advice.
Also stacking on top of each other is another great way to utilize buffs/shields/healing.
There is a lot of running back and people kiting till you get there. the distance sometimes is a killer!

BUT the cost for damages is a lot, as to the way points!

Why can’t some games just be difficult? Tetris is. So is Super Meat Boy. Just because every other mmo spoon feeds you with “Epics” after successfully bashing 123 for 10mins doesn’t mean Arenanet has to follow suit.

This is what they make it, it’s you that has to beat their game. No one whined to Nintendo that Super Mario was too difficult.

Super Meat Boy is stupid-wtf-nochance hard. It’s still one of the best games I’ve played.

stupid-wtf-nochance hard.

This is now an official term for difficulty rating in my guild, thanks.

evu.9081:

Why can’t some games just be difficult? Tetris is. So is Super Meat Boy. Just because every other mmo spoon feeds you with “Epics” after successfully bashing 123 for 10mins doesn’t mean Arenanet has to follow suit.

This is what they make it, it’s you that has to beat their game. No one whined to Nintendo that Super Mario was too difficult.

Super Meat Boy is stupid-wtf-nochance hard. It’s still one of the best games I’ve played.

Have you seen the Indy game movie at all? It is all about how those 2 guys made that game Edmund McMillen and programmer Tommy Refenes , and the launch of it, a amazing doco! Has the maker of Braid and FEZ

I also did Ascalonian Catacombs last night. Both the story mode and the “Colossus Rumblus” path in exlorable mode. I can honestly say that I loved every second. There are a few bugs of course, such as Colossus Rumblus downing me with a conal breath ability, despite me being at 90 degrees to his side, but overall I loved every second.

There was another boss (I forget his name) that had my entire group swearing at him as he pulls you towards him and then does a whirlwind that you cannot avoid and leaves you either downed or defeated. This resulted in a lot of complaining about difficulty and “kittenwhats the point in this boss?” sort of comments. That is until I pointed out that you could dodge the actual “grip” ability and as there was a pretty obvious animation to show this was coming, this was fairly easy to do. The boss died quite quickly then.

There is also a point where you have to defend two points against a graveling invasion. We failed this event numerous times, which again prompted lots of complaining and threatening to leave. That is until we sorted out defined roles for the fight (No, not tank/healer etc, but who would be targetting which mobs). After we had done this, the event was cleared so easily that we all laughed about it afterwards.

So what is my point? Yes, the dungeons are difficult. Not just Ascalonian Catacombs, but all of them. They are meant to be hard work to get through and to achieve that, you have to understand both your class and the game, whilst working as a team and communicating. Once you can all manage to do that, the dungeons really arent that tough, unless you get lazy or mess up. Arenanet want you to work hard for your gear and to improve as a player to complete these challenges and I fully approve of that mentality.

In short, sorry but you really do (along with the rest of your group) need to learn to play.

Your first dungeon run or two will be hard. That’s ok, cuz you’ve never played a game like GW2 before. Even worse is if you played some other MMORPG and are trying to do GW2 like that other game. You have to learn.

After you’ve learned, the dungeons are not terrifically hard. We have as many complaining that there’s not enough challenge as we have complaining that it’s stupid-wtf-nochance hard.

It’s not the gear that matters. It does matter a bit what utilities you have, and you can make good/bad choices for traits. On your way into the dungeon, make good choices, but even if you’re wearing greens and blues, your gear is fine.

What really matters is learning the playstyle of GW2 5-man

evu.9081:

Why can’t some games just be difficult? Tetris is. So is Super Meat Boy. Just because every other mmo spoon feeds you with “Epics” after successfully bashing 123 for 10mins doesn’t mean Arenanet has to follow suit.

This is what they make it, it’s you that has to beat their game. No one whined to Nintendo that Super Mario was too difficult.

Super Meat Boy is stupid-wtf-nochance hard. It’s still one of the best games I’ve played.

The difference between GW2 and the games you mentioned is that the dungeons in GW2 don’t start off relatively easy. Mario was easy in world 1-1, as was Super Meat Boy, and Tetris at level 1 is easy as pie. The first dungeon in GW2 is super duper punishing, especially if you’re at its so-called recommended level.

Like I said in a bunch of other threads, there’s an easy way to keep the difficulty up for those who like it and help less skilled players flourish – tutorial dungeon. A simpler and easier dungeon than AC built to teach players the finer points of combo and team play. You could even tie it into the lore, you and a bunch of new recruits are training in some barracks when OMG CENTAUR ATTACK QUICK USE WHAT YOU’VE LEARNED.

The problem is less about the difficulty and more about the lack of education the game provides about just how different your playstyle needs to be in dungeons. A proper tutorial would sort things out for noobies, and people who would rather learn by doing can skip it and just jump straight into AC. Everybody’s happy.

mulch.2586:

Your first dungeon run or two will be hard. That’s ok, cuz you’ve never played a game like GW2 before. Even worse is if you played some other MMORPG and are trying to do GW2 like that other game. You have to learn.

After you’ve learned, the dungeons are not terrifically hard. We have as many complaining that there’s not enough challenge as we have complaining that it’s stupid-wtf-nochance hard.

It’s not the gear that matters. It does matter a bit what utilities you have, and you can make good/bad choices for traits. On your way into the dungeon, make good choices, but even if you’re wearing greens and blues, your gear is fine.

What really matters is learning the playstyle of GW2 5-man

You are making many assumptions here. First one being this is the first time I have played this type of MMO. I have played all the main titles released in the last ten years and then some.
Second I see alot more threads with intelligent arguments about how the content is borked than the fanboys, you included, saying I should L2P. I have enough xp in many titles to know how to set up a character to tackle content. GW2 is not the first nor will it be the last to try new things. I have done my best to read up on and learn about the way to play my character. I do not have BiS on my character but I do know that the first dungeon I come across should not be as hard as it is, I am talking about the trash mobs here, not the bosses. Although I feel that we are being forced to play ranged no matter what player choices regarding prefered playstyle we make. Play it your way was the Anet mantra. It seems no they want us to all play ranged or die to boss aoe and mechanics that we have no warning are going to happen. I do not count a red circle on the groud a nano second before or more often than not after the “event” and only being able to dodge twice and the mobs spam abilities.
I suppose you are also one of the people that think the fire boss in the Asura starting zone is not OP too!

The asura zone boss is fine. People need to learn to get off the bridge and kill the adds. I admit, the first time I did that boss I died a lot, but I learned from my mistakes and did it much better the next time. I only died once and that was from trying to rez somebody from defeated (Again, I was still learning. I now know this isnt feasible in battle). 3rd time I did it (Had to farm that start zone a lot with the broken TP in the first week of release), I survived an entire fight without even being downed. If I needed health, I retreated across the bridge and allowed myself to recover. Otherwise I gained gold award, revived a few people from downed state and didnt get downed myself.

Is it hard? Yes. But if you do it RIGHT, its not that complex.

yurtshone.7325:

mulch.2586:

Your first dungeon run or two will be hard. That’s ok, cuz you’ve never played a game like GW2 before. Even worse is if you played some other MMORPG and are trying to do GW2 like that other game. You have to learn.

After you’ve learned, the dungeons are not terrifically hard. We have as many complaining that there’s not enough challenge as we have complaining that it’s stupid-wtf-nochance hard.

It’s not the gear that matters. It does matter a bit what utilities you have, and you can make good/bad choices for traits. On your way into the dungeon, make good choices, but even if you’re wearing greens and blues, your gear is fine.

What really matters is learning the playstyle of GW2 5-man

You are making many assumptions here. First one being this is the first time I have played this type of MMO. I have played all the main titles released in the last ten years and then some.
Second I see alot more threads with intelligent arguments about how the content is borked than the fanboys, you included, saying I should L2P. I have enough xp in many titles to know how to set up a character to tackle content. GW2 is not the first nor will it be the last to try new things. I have done my best to read up on and learn about the way to play my character. I do not have BiS on my character but I do know that the first dungeon I come across should not be as hard as it is, I am talking about the trash mobs here, not the bosses. Although I feel that we are being forced to play ranged no matter what player choices regarding prefered playstyle we make. Play it your way was the Anet mantra. It seems no they want us to all play ranged or die to boss aoe and mechanics that we have no warning are going to happen. I do not count a red circle on the groud a nano second before or more often than not after the “event” and only being able to dodge twice and the mobs spam abilities.
I suppose you are also one of the people that think the fire boss in the Asura starting zone is not OP too!

Shirely you can not be serious. Story mode AC is pretty easy if everyone is competent.
It is different though. It is harder than some other games i guess. but level 30 is not exactly entry level.

evu.9081:

Why can’t some games just be difficult? Tetris is. So is Super Meat Boy. Just because every other mmo spoon feeds you with “Epics” after successfully bashing 123 for 10mins doesn’t mean Arenanet has to follow suit.

This is what they make it, it’s you that has to beat their game. No one whined to Nintendo that Super Mario was too difficult.

Super Meat Boy is stupid-wtf-nochance hard. It’s still one of the best games I’ve played.

There is no way you’re trying to make an analogy of tetris or SMB to an MMO on the topic of difficulty.

That’s not even apples to oranges. That’s like comparing an apple to a camel.

I must admit I also had a “wtf did I just read, are we talking about the same game?” moment after reading the “The Endgame Reimagined”, however not because of the challenge level in dungeons (which I think is fine), but because of the grind required for sets or items.

I’ve played many MMOs, some much less than others.
I’ve quickly learned that korean MMOs are too grind- and kitten focused for my taste.
Really, I thought Aion is grindy! I need to rethink this after looking at GW2 loot.
100+ more runs for a set, not including weapons, is something that stands in the complete opposite to the article just released. Even if the set in question would be “just a cosmetic” (and it ain’t).
And please spare me the bull* about hardcores needing the challenge in this case: running same dungeon 100 times proves nothing, it stops being challenging after max 20 runs anyway. It’s not a statement about how skilled one is, only how much time they wasted.

Leave the challenge as it is, but fix the loot and the amount of runs required for the rewards and there you might be remotely near the spirit of the article.
Because now GW2 dungeons are crowned kings of grind, even if compared to legends such as Aion or L2.

According to A Net, having something challenging is just making it’s health and damage %’s larger. What challenging means to the player is having to devise some sort of strategy in order to counter whatever the AI is doing.

The #1 strategy for dungeons – zerg.

They need to learn where to put their difficulty nozzles.

I,e, not putting them on the Damage and Health Componeints and cranking them up to 11. For all the spit and polish the rest of the game has, this is the part where their inexperience with making this sort of content is glaringly obvious when they design them with age-old methedology of “Make gaem harder, maor damaeg!”

Yeah, that didn’t fly well in WoW when they tried that. And that was when WoW did OTHER things along with those tuning nozzles. Blizzard is by far the superior dungeon designers-they could teach Anet a thing or two.

Just to poke in regarding the trash mobs, specifically in AC (I saw the OP mention them);

I have noticed through running AC Story a couple times that apparently sometime between EQ1 (the last game I played heavily) and GW2, people forgot how to be patient and pull. Every trash mob/group can be split apart (except for two spots where they are all rangers. I haven’t figured out how to split them yet) and single pulled and then spanked. But somewhere along the lines it seems that pick up groups stopped communicating and lost the patience to sit back in a holding point and let someone pull.

Louien Coldrany.7280:

Just to poke in regarding the trash mobs, specifically in AC (I saw the OP mention them);

I have noticed through running AC Story a couple times that apparently sometime between EQ1 (the last game I played heavily) and GW2, people forgot how to be patient and pull. Every trash mob/group can be split apart (except for two spots where they are all rangers. I haven’t figured out how to split them yet) and single pulled and then spanked. But somewhere along the lines it seems that pick up groups stopped communicating and lost the patience to sit back in a holding point and let someone pull.

That doesnt require patience… that requires staving off boredom. Why are mobs I slaughter by the dozens in the overworld suddenly so overbearingly difficult that more than 2 at a time is going to cause problems for a group of 5?

Because its the endgame? Then why is Anet pushing it on me at level 30? It’s just driving players away from the whole dungeon system.

I’m fairly certain that staving of boredom is a definition of patience. Actually it is basically the #2 definition from dictionary.com.

The mobs are more difficult because they are designed to be fought by 5 players, not 1 (like the over world is). All I’m saying is don’t charge in, wait a few seconds to let the thief (or whomever, I do it as a thief) pull. It is faster in the end because no one dies.

I hate to say it but the rewards for running a dungeon compared to the cost to teleport or repair armor is absolutely ridiculous for how hard these dungeons are. The fact that the bosses dont even drop rare loot or even silver to cover the cost of repairs is completely ridiculous.

Loot issues I can agree with. The loot does seem to be abysmal. I should come out with at least one new piece of gear if I finish a dungeon.