Guild Wars 2

http://the-unknowns.eu/index.php/Thread/24-Fractal-Guide-work-in-progress/

it’s more in-depth and less outdated than Dulfy’s. Plus it mentions the strategies that people are most likely to use in the run. Might contain spelling errors though.

._.

https://www.youtube.com/user/gw2king

(Link to up to date guides for every fractal.)

Takuuu, dont be mean, a lot of work went into this! Looks good Mirta, I love the mini hippo xD Im sure people who prefer written guides will appreciate this a lot

Sanderinoa.8065:

Takuuu, dont be mean, a lot of work went into this! Looks good Mirta, I love the mini hippo xD Im sure people who prefer written guides will appreciate this a lot

aww, thank you!
Takuuu should post his guide in more places as well. We have a bit different styles as I tend to say what groups may do and explain mechanics, while he explains in depth how bosses can be done fast I loved his swamp one though. Never noticed the save spots myself

Either way just wanted to do something useful ^^

Its good to have both written and video versions of guides. So nicely done.

Not to mean sound harsh but I personally feel it’s a bit waste of (your) time to make a competing guide for gw2dungeons.

The visuals are nice but it’s something you can see in-game too.

Sanderinoa.8065:

Takuuu, dont be mean, a lot of work went into this! Looks good Mirta, I love the mini hippo xD Im sure people who prefer written guides will appreciate this a lot

That’s me, very much appreciate written guides. +1 Mirta.

Wethospu, its’ also why I love your website but pictures are nice. Between the three (this one, gw2dungeons, and King) I don’t have an excuse to suck at fractals anymore… wait… kitten… I need to learn fractals…D:

Jerus.4350:

Sanderinoa.8065:

Takuuu, dont be mean, a lot of work went into this! Looks good Mirta, I love the mini hippo xD Im sure people who prefer written guides will appreciate this a lot

That’s me, very much appreciate written guides. +1 Mirta.

Wethospu, its’ also why I love your website but pictures are nice. Between the three (this one, gw2dungeons, and King) I don’t have an excuse to suck at fractals anymore… wait… kitten… I need to learn fractals…D:

Grind your AR to 70 and do 50 with us. We’re chill and can show you a few things.

Wethospu.6437:

Not to mean sound harsh but I personally feel it’s a bit waste of (your) time to make a competing guide for gw2dungeons.

I strongly disagree. Some of the advice at gw2dungeons is great, some of it is hard to follow. Different people offer different perspectives and given how many different types of players in the game, I think we could stand to see still more quality guides.

I would like to see an example for that, especially if linked video guides don’t explain that either.

Sure, we can have dozens of different perspectives. But it must be really fun to check through all of them instead of just one or two sources to find what you are looking for.

Wethospu.6437:

I would like to see an example for that, especially if linked video guides don’t explain that either.

Sure, we can have dozens of different perspectives. But it must be really fun to check through all of them instead of just one or two sources to find what you are looking for.

the only source I was able to find when I googled was Dulfy. Also who are you to say that nobody else can make guides just because they’re made by you? At the very least it’s useful for my guildies

Wethospu.6437:

I would like to see an example for that, especially if linked video guides don’t explain that either.

Sure, we can have dozens of different perspectives. But it must be really fun to check through all of them instead of just one or two sources to find what you are looking for.

I’m not asking for dozens. I’m saying a single guide isn’t ever sufficient, especially if it’s only maintained by a single person (or small group), as is the case with gw2dungeons and Dulfy guides. Unless a guide is truly crowdsourced similarly to the wiki, the writing stops evolving: there’s no value to Dulfy to update her guide every time someone comments with a useful idea, even when those ideas might be really helpful to some people.

As a simpler example, take the world boss timers — despite the limited content it covers, there are at least half a dozen popular versions out there. I have yet to find a single one that I can unequivocally recommend to every player. The wiki is great for those who like a simple text guide, but some people prefer one of the overlays. Others prefer a more graphical display for a second monitor. Thus, when that shaman or anyone else presents a new boss timer, I’m all in favor: the best ones usually remain and the others end up seeing less traffic.

I think gw2dungeons is a great resource and I have made good use of it. But there are points that could be explained more clearly (sometimes with fewer words, sometimes with more).

tl;dr I’m always pleased to see a new resource and to let the community figure out which resources are worth recommending.

It’s been months since I have received any feedback for gw2dungeons. If something feels off I can clarify but I need to know what is wrong. However, based on how stale dungeon content is, I don’t how much there is to add. For example wiki is still a lot behind than gw2dungeons even when I haven’t really updated it for a while.

Do you think all those world boss timers are useful? Or perhaps some of them are obsolete? Perhaps one wouldn’t be enough but in my opinion there needs be a good reason for multiple applications. Otherwise developers could cooperate and create better application together.

Same applies for guides too. One guide isn’t enough. What video guides lack in detail can be found in gw2dungeons. What gw2dungeons lacks visually can be found in videos. Both complement each other. I personally don’t see how this new guide fits but I can be wrong.

Mirta.5029:

Wethospu.6437:

I would like to see an example for that, especially if linked video guides don’t explain that either.

Sure, we can have dozens of different perspectives. But it must be really fun to check through all of them instead of just one or two sources to find what you are looking for.

the only source I was able to find when I googled was Dulfy. Also who are you to say that nobody else can make guides just because they’re made by you? At the very least it’s useful for my guildies

Where did I state that “nobody else can make guides”? All I did was just give some feedback. What you do with your time is entirely up to you.

I’m bit curious what you googled since using dungeons or fractals should give gw2dungeons on the first page.

Wethospu.6437:

I’m bit curious what you googled since using dungeons or fractals should give gw2dungeons on the first page.

Thanks for that. Looks like my keywords need some tweaking.

Wethospu.6437:

Not to mean sound harsh but I personally feel it’s a bit waste of (your) time to make a competing guide for gw2dungeons.

I’ve only looked at one guide on gw2dungeons and it had either misleading or missing information so I didn’t put a lot of stock into it. I’m sure not every guide is like that but it is off-putting when you go to a supposedly reliable source and you know more about the encounters yourself just from playing through.

If people actually care to “compete” then its good for everyone to have people checking their info so that the overall quality of the guides improve and some people may appreciate one format over another.

Crysto.7089:

Wethospu.6437:

Not to mean sound harsh but I personally feel it’s a bit waste of (your) time to make a competing guide for gw2dungeons.

I’ve only looked at one guide on gw2dungeons and it had either misleading or missing information so I didn’t put a lot of stock into it. I’m sure not every guide is like that but it is off-putting when you go to a supposedly reliable source and you know more about the encounters yourself just from playing through.
-snip-

Please elaborate on the bold statement. Which details are misleading or missing? Since I use gw2dungeon.com as my teaching material. I would love to verify it myself.

I would love to hear that too. But as usually with negative feedback, nothing useful is really given.

Also I would like to hear why another guide with misleading and missing stuff somehow fixes “misleading and missing stuff” problem? With multiple incomplete sources it’s hard to tell which one is right, if people even check multiple sources.

Wethospu.6437:

I would love to hear that too. But as usually with negative feedback, nothing useful is really given.

Iris Ng.9845:

Crysto.7089:

Wethospu.6437:

Not to mean sound harsh but I personally feel it’s a bit waste of (your) time to make a competing guide for gw2dungeons.

I’ve only looked at one guide on gw2dungeons and it had either misleading or missing information so I didn’t put a lot of stock into it. I’m sure not every guide is like that but it is off-putting when you go to a supposedly reliable source and you know more about the encounters yourself just from playing through.
-snip-

Please elaborate on the bold statement. Which details are misleading or missing? Since I use gw2dungeon.com as my teaching material. I would love to verify it myself.

I will give you one solid example since it occurs at the very start of the guide, but I won’t be doing your proof-reading for you.

AC Story:
Room is filled with lots of coffins and 2 blue dusts. Opening a coffin may spawn an Elementalist, a Mesmer, a Monk, a Necromancer, a Ranger, Warrior or ~7 Spider Hatchlings or cause a knockdown. One of them will ALSO spawn a Gateguard.
This is worded to say that the gate guard is in one specific coffin and you have to open them until you find him ie. you could get lucky and find him on your first coffin. This is not true, he always spawns after a certain number of coffins (I believe it is 6-7 *its 7).

You can get him on an earlier coffin though.

Crysto.7089:

Wethospu.6437:

I would love to hear that too. But as usually with negative feedback, nothing useful is really given.

Iris Ng.9845:

Crysto.7089:

Wethospu.6437:

Not to mean sound harsh but I personally feel it’s a bit waste of (your) time to make a competing guide for gw2dungeons.

I’ve only looked at one guide on gw2dungeons and it had either misleading or missing information so I didn’t put a lot of stock into it. I’m sure not every guide is like that but it is off-putting when you go to a supposedly reliable source and you know more about the encounters yourself just from playing through.
-snip-

Please elaborate on the bold statement. Which details are misleading or missing? Since I use gw2dungeon.com as my teaching material. I would love to verify it myself.

I will give you one solid example since it occurs at the very start of the guide, but I won’t be doing your proof-reading for you.

AC Story:
Room is filled with lots of coffins and 2 blue dusts. Opening a coffin may spawn an Elementalist, a Mesmer, a Monk, a Necromancer, a Ranger, Warrior or ~7 Spider Hatchlings or cause a knockdown. One of them will ALSO spawn a Gateguard.
This is worded to say that the gate guard is in one specific coffin and you have to open them until you find him ie. you could get lucky and find him on your first coffin. This is not true, he always spawns after a certain number of coffins (I believe it is 6-7 *its 7).

As far as I know from my numerous attempts to run AC story record, the number is RNG. You can get the Gate Guard out as early as in the third coffin.

.__."

It’s like you always get a Risen Berserker at the gate to Lupi arena after p1 and p2. While it is 99% of the time true, it’s not the sole fact. You have a very very rare chance to see a Risen Ilusionist instead. This knowledge may be obsolete to me, because I never encounter him but have been pooled out from the community. Just like a lot (if not all) of info in gw2dungeons.net. Most of the veteran runners like me still have to re-check the mob info (monster type, skills, cast time, cool down) there when we try a new optimization. The site has higher credit than you think. Last but not least, if you find there is a questionable detail, please at least give us a head up to verify it instead of bashing it off as a weak argument.

Crysto.7089:

AC Story:
Room is filled with lots of coffins and 2 blue dusts. Opening a coffin may spawn an Elementalist, a Mesmer, a Monk, a Necromancer, a Ranger, Warrior or ~7 Spider Hatchlings or cause a knockdown. One of them will ALSO spawn a Gateguard.
This is worded to say that the gate guard is in one specific coffin and you have to open them until you find him ie. you could get lucky and find him on your first coffin. This is not true, he always spawns after a certain number of coffins (I believe it is 6-7 *its 7).

Let’s assume that is 100% accurate criticism. Will that change your approach to the encounter? Will the delta between the written guide and the player experience create a situation where the player is unprepared for the encounter?

I guess the point is that its a distinction without difference.

If it was true and I was looking to speed up my solo run, I would exit the dungeon and start again if I didn’t get him on the first coffin.

Crysto.7089:

If it was true and I was looking to speed up my solo run, I would exit the dungeon and start again if I didn’t get him on the first coffin.

A better option: spamming the coffin until you get the guard and LOS all the mobs to kill them. If you get overwhelmed, then restart the dungeon.

At least, that’s what all the trio and groups use to speed up this part.

Iris Ng.9845:

Crysto.7089:

Wethospu.6437:

I would love to hear that too. But as usually with negative feedback, nothing useful is really given.

Iris Ng.9845:

Crysto.7089:

Wethospu.6437:

Not to mean sound harsh but I personally feel it’s a bit waste of (your) time to make a competing guide for gw2dungeons.

I’ve only looked at one guide on gw2dungeons and it had either misleading or missing information so I didn’t put a lot of stock into it. I’m sure not every guide is like that but it is off-putting when you go to a supposedly reliable source and you know more about the encounters yourself just from playing through.
-snip-

Please elaborate on the bold statement. Which details are misleading or missing? Since I use gw2dungeon.com as my teaching material. I would love to verify it myself.

I will give you one solid example since it occurs at the very start of the guide, but I won’t be doing your proof-reading for you.

AC Story:
Room is filled with lots of coffins and 2 blue dusts. Opening a coffin may spawn an Elementalist, a Mesmer, a Monk, a Necromancer, a Ranger, Warrior or ~7 Spider Hatchlings or cause a knockdown. One of them will ALSO spawn a Gateguard.
This is worded to say that the gate guard is in one specific coffin and you have to open them until you find him ie. you could get lucky and find him on your first coffin. This is not true, he always spawns after a certain number of coffins (I believe it is 6-7 *its 7).

As far as I know from my numerous attempts to run AC story record, the number is RNG. You can get the Gate Guard out as early as in the third coffin.

.__."

It’s like you always get a Risen Berserker at the gate to Lupi arena after p1 and p2. While it is 99% of the time true, it’s not the sole fact. You have a very very rare chance to see a Risen Ilusionist instead. This knowledge may be obsolete to me, because I never encounter him but have been pooled out from the community. Just like a lot (if not all) of info in gw2dungeons.net. Most of the veteran runners like me still have to re-check the mob info (monster type, skills, cast time, cool down) there when we try a new optimization. The site has higher credit than you think. Last but not least, if you find there is a questionable detail, please at least give us a head up to verify it instead of bashing it off as a weak argument.

I’m not going to go through every video I have but I will say in everyone that I DID go through, the number was always seven. I have even done 5 more runs this morning and the number was still always seven. That said I’m going to backtrack a little from the “always.” GW2 has had more than its fair share of bugs and glitches, so I wouldn’t consider it impossible that he has spawned earlier. However, that is definitely not the norm and I have never personally experienced it in my many solo runs. It could also be the case that ANet updated the room at some point, but if that is true then the guide is out of date and a newer guide would be more useful.

Which brings us back to the point of this which is that a newer/alternate guide may be better and if I see one set of guides has up to date info and one does not, then I’m going to use the one with updated info, hence, it would not be a waste of the guide maker’s time because the better guide would come out on top. This in turn SHOULD push other guide makers to also want to have correct information and improve their guides, not try to gun down other guide makers when they believe that their guides are the be-all-end-all. (obviously not this particular thread’s guide since its about fractals, but the principle stands)

Finally, I have no doubt in the abilities of the posters in this thread to do this on their own for testing, but here are 3 of the 5 runs I did this morning (wanted small filesize my internet is bad), each spawning the guard at 7 opens. Yes, 3 runs is a drop in the bucket in the face of the RNG you claim it to be, but it is a start to backup my claims and I just don’t have the time/bandwidth to upload every single run I’ve done.

If I understood you correctly you are saying that it would be better to start a completely new guide than fix a simple mistake.

You also seem to talk as if guide makers gained something from their guides. This may come as a surprise but I don’t get paid for updating the guide. The idea that guide makers should compete and do “this and that” is really absurd, especially from a person who prefers to spend more time complaining than helping. Yes, I know, it would have taken like 15 seconds to leave a comment on the guide page.

But yes, looks like it’s always the 7th coffin.

The Snowblind fractal is now up as well ^^
So I only have Thaumanova left.

Now I do not understand why did this have to become into a fight between all the guide writers. Kudos to you all guys for writing your guides. All guides are all useful in their own way and chances are plenty of other guild forums have their own guides written for their own members too. There’s no reason why many guides can’t exist and still be useful in their own way.

Mirta.5029:

I do not understand why did this have to become into a fight

Welcome to the Dungeon forums! We can turn absolutely anything into a fight!

Kudos to you all guys for writing your guides. All guides are all useful in their own way and chances are plenty of other guild forums have their own guides written for their own members too. There’s no reason why many guides can’t exist and still be useful in their own way.

QFT.

That said, Weth does have a very valid point that it is best to have a single “go-to” resource that everyone knows about and keeps up to date. It’s absolutely fine to have your own guide if you want to produce one in your own style, but we’d appreciate it if you could take a few minutes to see if you have anything to add/correct from the gw2dungeons.net guide. It really has become “the” resource for GW2 instanced PvE

It’s up to Weth whether he feels a desire to maintain it, but it might be worthwhile to add some links to other guides, assuming it wouldn’t be too much trouble. Something similar to the builds tab, where it has a set of links to other sources of information.

dlonie.6547:

QFT.

That said, Weth does have a very valid point that it is best to have a single “go-to” resource that everyone knows about and keeps up to date. It’s absolutely fine to have your own guide if you want to produce one in your own style, but we’d appreciate it if you could take a few minutes to see if you have anything to add/correct from the gw2dungeons.net guide. It really has become “the” resource for GW2 instanced PvE

It’s up to Weth whether he feels a desire to maintain it, but it might be worthwhile to add some links to other guides, assuming it wouldn’t be too much trouble. Something similar to the builds tab, where it has a set of links to other sources of information.

how about if you need pictures in there and mine illustrate some points feel free to either borrow those and just say that they’ve been donated by the guild An Unknown, or link to those guides? Or link to the video guides? I don’t think that there’s anything wrong with Weth’s guide.

Mirta.5029:

The Snowblind fractal is now up as well ^^
So I only have Thaumanova left.

Now I do not understand why did this have to become into a fight between all the guide writers. Kudos to you all guys for writing your guides. All guides are all useful in their own way and chances are plenty of other guild forums have their own guides written for their own members too. There’s no reason why many guides can’t exist and still be useful in their own way.

basically, wethospu, though he is bad at saying it, would prefer most people in the community to be working on sperate things, or work on improving a primary resource rather than creating new ones.

However, people are not going to feel like working under someone else all the time. They will be limited by the style, expectations, and opinions of whoever is in charge there.
As evidenced, weth doesnt see the purpose of the new guides, and probably wouldnt have done it/changed it/updated it the same way even if mirta came to him and said i think we need these new guides.

My only purpose was to make him reconsider whether he is willing to spend a lot of effort for a very small expected gain. Unless he has a really good plan or is willing to put an enormous effort I don’t think his guide is going to be a thing.

Yes, I could smile and say “good job” or “very nice” like most people but I prefer giving an honest and direct input.

gw2dungeons could use a lot more images and some kind of a system to show them nicely. I just haven’t seen any point for it since currently I’m not willing to put the effort to create all those images.

I also know content wise there is a lot of room for improvement. Different tactics, clarifications, better enemy data, etc. But since dungeons/fractals are so easy/stale I don’t see much need for improvements.

I don’t disagree with the idea that having a single resource which crowd-sources information from the entire community would probably be more user-friendly and more accurate. But, mirta obviously put a lot of time and effort into this guide, and all you had to say was that it was a waste of his time, and why should he even bother trying to compete. I think any person with any healthy sense of ego would get defensive. You could have said something like: “nice guide! I really liked your use of pictures, it’s something I feel gw2dungeons is lacking at the moment. I’m working on making my guide the main community resource, so maybe we could talk about incorporating your guide into gw2dungeons?” There wouldn’t have been the needless antagonism and negativity, and the community AND gw2dugeons could have gained from it.

So yeah, I get the the whole “just have a thicker skin, I was offering my honest opinion” type thing, but…a bit of empathy can go a long way. It can help people actually hear your honest opinion, rather then getting annoyed and defensive.

Wethospu.6437:

My only purpose was to make him reconsider whether he is willing to spend a lot of effort for a very small expected gain. Unless he has a really good plan or is willing to put an enormous effort I don’t think his guide is going to be a thing.

Why should it ever be a thing? Like why should I even want it to be a thing? First it serves a purpose as a good resource for people in the guild. However we allow people to view it even if they’re not from our guild. But that’s about it. You’re not going to be an internet sensation for writing a guide

If your only goal was to provide a resource for your guild then you could have just linked gw2dungeons or [KING] video guides. Yes, I know you didn’t find anything on google but you could have asked here and got a reply within an hour.

Now you spend hours to create something which will very likely be inferior than other sources. But as I said before, what you do with your freetime is entirely up to you.

rfdarko.4639:

—

So yeah, I get the the whole “just have a thicker skin, I was offering my honest opinion” type thing, but…a bit of empathy can go a long way. It can help people actually hear your honest opinion, rather then getting annoyed and defensive.

Ye, I know I was being a bit meanie. One of my goals was to provoke discussion and well, I did add some filler words to soften the blow.

Wethospu.6437:

If your only goal was to provide a resource for your guild then you could have just linked gw2dungeons or [KING] video guides. Yes, I know you didn’t find anything on google but you could have asked here and got a reply within an hour.

now that’s not how you create a beautiful guild website. You set up events, write guides, share resources, that’s what makes guilds attractive. It’s a community, it’s supposed to be your home, you don’t just throw links to pictureless guides in your home. You give something back to your home

I feel like gw2dungeons.net does not get all the publicity it deserves. It is the ultimate knowledge resource for PvE. If people were more aware of it then this kind of situations wouldn’t logically happen.

Maybe a general gw2dungeons.net thread should be stickied here on the dungeon forums, so that people can give feedback, notice the links, and be aware of updates, etc.

Oh, and nice guide, I think you guild will enjoy it

You framed your criticism in an antagonist way, which isn’t a great way to start a discussion. You make the assumption that mirta is trying to compete with you, which frames the argument as “me vs him”. You focused on tearing him down, telling him why he shouldn’t bother, why what he’s doing is pointless, instead of giving a constructive suggestion on how he could contribute to the community in the streamlined way you envision (should he want to do so).

And if he doesn’t want to, that’s his choice, and you can stop calling what he’s doing inferior and pointless. At worst, his guide wont impact yours in any way. At best, his work could have been incorporated into the gw2dungeons site to make it even better. There’s nothing here to be so negative about.

I would say you are the one being negative here. Going completely off-topic just to bash me.

Whether he is trying to compete or not is irrelevant. Our guides are so similar that they automatically compete with each other. If you need a written fractal guide you very likely won’t read both.

Now if his plan was to make a popular guide for community then he would have a hard time. What I was trying is to make him aware of the situation and potentially avoid wasting his time. But since he explained his motive and goals there isn’t really anything to discuss. For his purposes it’s a good guide.

I didn’t tear him down. I told him the facts. Sometimes facts aren’t nice and may hurt. But I decided to risk that to avoid the potential case of him spending a lots of effort only to realize something very similar has already been done.

As I have stated multiple times, it’s entirely up to him what he does with his free time. Bot looks like the same doesn’t apply for me as you are giving me orders how I should spend mine.

Mirta.5029:

now that’s not how you create a beautiful guild website. You set up events, write guides, share resources, that’s what makes guilds attractive. It’s a community, it’s supposed to be your home, you don’t just throw links to pictureless guides in your home. You give something back to your home

Fair enough. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

I encourage multiple guides. Different people do thing different ways sometimes, so the more perspective on something the better. Also, websites come and go all time. IRL kitten might happen that may cause some players to stop or care about keeping guides/websites up-to-date. Multiple (maintained) guides will help counter that.

Power to you OP, nice work.

Yesterday I had a look at gwdungeons.net. I found it was missing some info on the fractal side of things. ALTHOUGH ( before anyone jumps to anything ) the info that was missing wasnt anything core, just little things that Ive picked up / seen people do after all the fractals Ive been in.

Sarah

What are they? Im sure Weth is happy to add them. :P

I added a note at the bottom of the fractals were users could write stuff although im not sure if I was clear enough.

When I get home I could copy them here if you wish to proof read me and stuff.

Yeah, I got your messages. I probably have to play Aetherblade to fully understand that spinning laser thingy and perhaps get a picture of it.

Wethospu.6437:

Yeah, I got your messages. I probably have to play Aetherblade to fully understand that spinning laser thingy and perhaps get a picture of it.

I heard Mirta has a lot of pictures

/duck

Thaumanova reactor is halfway implemented. All I’m missing is two rooms now

Are you on na? Maybe we can fractal sometime and I can show you what I mean.

added the last missing pictures for the Thaumanova reactor fractal. The guide can now be considered mostly finished.

Tom Yzf.5872:

I encourage multiple guides. Different people do thing different ways sometimes, so the more perspective on something the better.

Just throwing this out there as feedback, this is one of my favorite features of gw2dungeons.net — each encounter can have multiple strategies presented in an easy to browse manner. The ability to have multiple explanations available through a convenient and intuitive UI is very helpful, and can prevent the site from getting too narrowly focused on a specific set of strategies. Props to the designer on that one.

And +1 for growing your guild’s resources, Mirta. People like you are what makes a good guild great

Thanks for the props. I will put them in to good use!

Sarahfull.4930:

Are you on na? Maybe we can fractal sometime and I can show you what I mean.

I’m on EU and I don’t really play that much. Too busy with other stuff. But I added your tips to the guide.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2v8m6i/fractal_guide_for_new_or_returning_players_not/

somehow this ended up trending on reddit. Thank you guys for posting input there for me to expand and fix what I may have gotten wrong and thank you guy that posted it on reddit to begin with.