Guild Wars 2

Until I got into a party with two unload thieves, a norn warrior using snow wurm, and an engi that used turrets (flame/rifle) in dungeons.

Now I don’t join LFG’s unless they say zerker 80 speed run. Please don’t run stupid builds in dungeons

Which dungeon and how did it turn out? :-)

LOL. There is a reason some of us are a little kick happy in dungeons, especially when 3-4 guildies in a party

William Bradley Knight.2609:

Which dungeon and how did it turn out? :-)

COE p1. I rage quit at the last subject alpha fight when the two unload thieves were skirting around eating the dragon’s tooth attack. And I never ever ragequit. :/

I would leave a group right away if things are going to turn out that way.
Most of the time there is no need arguing with pugs..Some people just love to be ignorant despite their LFG-saying “zerker-exp (AP XY+)”, I really had some very interesting runs which were just outstandingly bad and others which were really worth the time.
Best way is to find a guild or friends that are sharing your thoughts / way of playing. Making runs more adequate.

Most of the time it’s really difficult to find decent parties and therefore decent runs.

The funny thing if telling them to play differently they just “kick”, or well I get kicked a lot out of parties. >.>
But I have to admit I love running with pugs (sometimes), it can be funny.

Because not A == B

jportell.2197:

Until I got into a party with two unload thieves, a norn warrior using snow wurm, and an engi that used turrets (flame/rifle) in dungeons.

Now I don’t join LFG’s unless they say zerker 80 speed run. Please don’t run stupid builds in dungeons

when you reach the point that people running their own builds and not knowing how to fight boss optimally inspires uncontrollable rage, its probably best to seperate yourself into a like minded group.

So yeah, what you say is logical, their playstyle causes you distress, so play with people who dont.

But there really is nothing to say they shouldnt run dungeons like that.

jportell.2197:

William Bradley Knight.2609:

Which dungeon and how did it turn out? :-)

COE p1. I rage quit at the last subject alpha fight when the two unload thieves were skirting around eating the dragon’s tooth attack. And I never ever ragequit. :/

I’d say that’s more of a problem of them not applying themselves rather than the builds themselves.

All they need to do is switch to the crystal to break with unload then switch back, dodge dragon’s tooth + whatever he has.

build != skill or experience

one is not indicative to the other, I’ve had a war use the axe/other + gs phalanx strength build and never use the rotation properly and fall on the floor.

I’ve also seen a guardian run “meta” builds and not once did he time wall of reflections or shield of the avenger properly in a fractal.

Come to think of it, I haven’t used p/p in a while on my thief, maybe I’ll do it in one of my guild runs to see if someone gets mad or not.

jportell.2197:

Now I don’t join LFG’s unless they say zerker 80 speed run. Please don’t run stupid builds in dungeons

Well to be honest, unless you state “zerker 80 speed run” or alike, I expect it to be a casual/noob-friendly run. I would actually encourage new players to join LFG’s like this, since these are the only parties where they are accepted and able to play what they want.

Basically what you say is you didn’t specify what kind of party you wanted, and are now unhappy with what you got. It is like going to a candy store, asking for random a random sweet and then complaining that you didn’t want that one.

If you dont want stupid builds in your party, either make sure your LFG is clear about it or dont wine about what you get.

Meryn.6875:

jportell.2197:

Now I don’t join LFG’s unless they say zerker 80 speed run. Please don’t run stupid builds in dungeons

Well to be honest, unless you state “zerker 80 speed run” or alike, I expect it to be a casual/noob-friendly run. I would actually encourage new players to join LFG’s like this, since these are the only parties where they are accepted and able to play what they want.

Basically what you say is you didn’t specify what kind of party you wanted, and are now unhappy with what you got. It is like going to a candy store, asking for random a random sweet and then complaining that you didn’t want that one.

If you dont want stupid builds in your party, either make sure your LFG is clear about it or dont wine about what you get.

he said joined a group, so most likely he didnt make the group, and has no logical reason to complain. Many people join regular groups expecting them to be like a lite version of a speed run group, when thats not really the case.

Which is why i suggest there is a more clear delineation in purpose between speed run groups and non speed groups.

phys.7689:

But there really is nothing to say they shouldnt run dungeons like that.

I promise I’m not trying to be antagonistic here. I’m just genuinely curious. Do you think the same can be said about, say, people who sit on turrets doing nothing during teq? Or people who pop poison bubbles early at indigo during the breach, so the teragriffs never get stunned?

That is, is there nothing to say people shouldn’t run teq or the breach like that? And if there is, what’s the difference between expecting random people in a map to do things right and expecting random people in a non-specific (e.g., “p1” with no qualifiers) dungeon pug to do things right?

I ask, again, not to pick a fight or anything, but just because I can’t see a relevant difference, and I might be missing something. To me, it seems like for open world events the community places the burden on the participants: if you don’t know the best way to do things, you either need to look it up or ask in map chat, and if somebody explains in map chat, we blame you for not following the explanation. If you’re simply incapable of doing what is required, you’re expected to leave it to somebody else.

But for dungeons, you’re saying it should be the opposite: unless you explicitly say you want people who know the best ways to do things, you have to expect nobody to know anything, and you can’t expect anybody to listen or change what they’re doing if you try to explain in party chat. If your party isn’t capable of doing what is required, it’s not their job to leave; it’s yours.

What am I missing?

One Note Chord.5031:

phys.7689:

But there really is nothing to say they shouldnt run dungeons like that.

I promise I’m not trying to be antagonistic here. I’m just genuinely curious. Do you think the same can be said about, say, people who sit on turrets doing nothing during teq? Or people who pop poison bubbles early at indigo during the breach, so the teragriffs never get stunned?

That is, is there nothing to say people shouldn’t run teq or the breach like that? And if there is, what’s the difference between expecting random people in a map to do things right and expecting random people in a non-specific (e.g., “p1” with no qualifiers) dungeon pug to do things right?

I ask, again, not to pick a fight or anything, but just because I can’t see a relevant difference, and I might be missing something. To me, it seems like for open world events the community places the burden on the participants: if you don’t know the best way to do things, you either need to look it up or ask in map chat, and if somebody explains in map chat, we blame you for not following the explanation. If you’re simply incapable of doing what is required, you’re expected to leave it to somebody else.

But for dungeons, you’re saying it should be the opposite: unless you explicitly say you want people who know the best ways to do things, you have to expect nobody to know anything, and you can’t expect anybody to listen or change what they’re doing if you try to explain in party chat. If your party isn’t capable of doing what is required, it’s not their job to leave; it’s yours.

What am I missing?

the difference is that the designers intended, and limited the design of those elements to have one specific purpose.

They however didnt intentionally design a weaponset/classes not to be used ever. There is no player investment in a tequatl turret, however there could be a fairly large investment in a dual pistol build for a player.

They could have gained knowledge, learned its strengths and weaknesses, picked traits and invested considerable time and money on ascended or huntsman crafting. Now to say that someone who invested that much into a certain playstyle should abandon it to play your way, in a game room they may have opened themselves with no requisites?

I understand you may want to play a specific way, but isnt that what the specific rooms are for? Isnt it unreasonable to go into a non specific room, looking for a specific style of play?

by and large in the open world you are not really asked to play according to a specifc style, these encounters are the exception, and not the rule. And to be honest tequatl generally doesnt require a playstyle change. Most of the strategies are on a macro level, not on a personal playstyle/build level.

OP, I hope you do not run your “bunker mesmer“ build in dungeons. No offense!

> They however didnt intentionally design a weaponset/classes not to be used ever.

Well, I wouldn’t say they intended for a class (like necro) to be close to uselessness in a game mode, but I do remember them saying that weapons do not have to be as good in all game modes, that is, if something is good in PVP it doesn’t have to be great in PVE.

If you think that they’re designing classes/builds/weapon sets around the idea of being equally good in PVE I have a bridge to sell you. If anything, their N°1 target for balance would have to be PVP. PVP is why warrior has become so bad and only worth bringing as bannerbot.

I think this ZERKER mania is stupid.

Every dung finder says 80 lvl ZERKER only or kick. How could a new player of GW enjoy the game when some guy is so blinded by mass degeneration of community who believe that only way to go in dung is berserker stats build.

If this is truth then tell me why other stats are in game? Why are not berserker stats on every single item in the game? Because someone want to people think about their builds. Someone wants to people run different enjoyable builds. Then hodor hodor bam bam.

Please think about it. Not everyone enjoys just dmg. Someone wants to be support for the rest of the party. Or even healer in options of GW2.

Droggy.7863:

I think this ZERKER mania is stupid.

Every dung finder says 80 lvl ZERKER only or kick. How could a new player of GW enjoy the game when some guy is so blinded by mass degeneration of community who believe that only way to go in dung is berserker stats build.

If this is truth then tell me why other stats are in game? Why are not berserker stats on every single item in the game? Because someone want to people think about their builds. Someone wants to people run different enjoyable builds. Then hodor hodor bam bam.

Please think about it. Not everyone enjoys just dmg. Someone wants to be support for the rest of the party. Or even healer in options of GW2.

WvW. Training wheels. Solos.

But guess what? When I’m forming for a dungeon run, I want neither WvWers, solo condi builds, nor people on training wheels.

Droggy.7863:

Please think about it. Not everyone enjoys just dmg. Someone wants to be support for the rest of the party. Or even healer in options of GW2.

Then join or make a LFG that accepts non-berserkers.

Droggy.7863:

I think this ZERKER mania is stupid.

Every dung finder says 80 lvl ZERKER only or kick. How could a new player of GW enjoy the game when some guy is so blinded by mass degeneration of community who believe that only way to go in dung is berserker stats build.

If this is truth then tell me why other stats are in game? Why are not berserker stats on every single item in the game? Because someone want to people think about their builds. Someone wants to people run different enjoyable builds. Then hodor hodor bam bam.

Please think about it. Not everyone enjoys just dmg. Someone wants to be support for the rest of the party. Or even healer in options of GW2.

People that like speedruns make their own parties. I’m sure the people who deliberately want to play awful can do the same. No one forces you to join parties that ask for berserker gear.

Droggy.7863:

I think this ZERKER mania is stupid.

Every dung finder says 80 lvl ZERKER only or kick. How could a new player of GW enjoy the game when some guy is so blinded by mass degeneration of community who believe that only way to go in dung is berserker stats build.

If this is truth then tell me why other stats are in game? Why are not berserker stats on every single item in the game? Because someone want to people think about their builds. Someone wants to people run different enjoyable builds. Then hodor hodor bam bam.

Please think about it. Not everyone enjoys just dmg. Someone wants to be support for the rest of the party. Or even healer in options of GW2.

Simple, please follow this guide created my our beloved meta community representatives: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jra3jV_ckYg

Good luck o/

I’m not saying that barserker is bad. I’m just saying that the entire group of berserkers is wrong. I run cof with my berserker war along with another 4 zerk wars and it takes two times more then run with just 1 support that gives mights and other buffs

Droggy.7863:

I’m not saying that barserker is bad. I’m just saying that the entire group of berserkers is wrong. I run cof with my berserker war along with another 4 zerk wars and it takes two times more then run with just 1 support that gives mights and other buffs

You have really strong opinions for a guy who doesn’t understand the game very well. My suggestion is be humble when learning something new and don’t expect to lecture people who have more experience than you.

Droggy.7863:

I run cof with my berserker war along with another 4 zerk wars

Humble when learn something new? Ok I´m done. I prefer thinking about my build then copy one build like thousands of sheeps. This is what makes GW so enjoyable for me. Thanks for everything guys

Droggy.7863:

I’m not saying that barserker is bad. I’m just saying that the entire group of berserkers is wrong. I run cof with my berserker war along with another 4 zerk wars and it takes two times more then run with just 1 support that gives mights and other buffs

So you are using zerk wrong, so zerk is bad? There is no reason to run more than 1 warrior dude. Meta zerker actually pack as much support as they can, but you don’t really get that yet right? A good meta group bring either a PS warrior or S/X Elementalist for might, Elementalist can bring perma fury, Ele/Warrior/Guardian/Thief/Engie can all participate in stacking vulnerability. You can also bring a guardian if you need defensive support and mesmer for utility (FB, Portal, Boon removal, etc).

So try to learn about meta before trying to find holes in it pls.

Droggy.7863:

Humble when learn something new? Ok I´m done. I prefer thinking about my build then copy one build like thousands of sheeps. This is what makes GW so enjoyable for me. Thanks for everything guys

Yes, you clearly don’t understand how or why things are done, yet you have very strong opinions. Before you offer your opinions, at least learn the game before you lecture us.

Droggy.7863:

I’m not saying that barserker is bad. I’m just saying that the entire group of berserkers is wrong. I run cof with my berserker war along with another 4 zerk wars and it takes two times more then run with just 1 support that gives mights and other buffs

Hmmmm that smelly smell… Can anyone else sense it or is it just me?

Droggy.7863:

I think this ZERKER mania is stupid.

Every dung finder says 80 lvl ZERKER only or kick. How could a new player of GW enjoy the game when some guy is so blinded by mass degeneration of community who believe that only way to go in dung is berserker stats build.

If this is truth then tell me why other stats are in game? Why are not berserker stats on every single item in the game? Because someone want to people think about their builds. Someone wants to people run different enjoyable builds. Then hodor hodor bam bam.

Please think about it. Not everyone enjoys just dmg. Someone wants to be support for the rest of the party. Or even healer in options of GW2.

basically the current dungeon players are not concerned with what works, but with what works best. If Dungeons are going to continue to be a thing the dungeon community needs to expand to encompass players who just want to play some dungeons.

Even if zerk wasnt the thing, they still would only want specific builds, and exclude others.

Droggy.7863:

Humble when learn something new? Ok I´m done. I prefer thinking about my build then copy one build like thousands of sheeps. This is what makes GW so enjoyable for me. Thanks for everything guys

Dude, try to speedrun anything in GW without a PvX meta build. Pretty brutal and take 5 times as long :s

@Nikaido: Coincidentally, my esportz friends were also talking about the pinnacle of skills in PvP last night. The strongest team would be a perfectly played full zerker team. They would 100-0 any and everything. No stomp, no res; pure DPS and cleave the down body. This is also taken to the debate of what comps can beat The Abjured.

phys.7689:

Droggy.7863:

I think this ZERKER mania is stupid.

Every dung finder says 80 lvl ZERKER only or kick. How could a new player of GW enjoy the game when some guy is so blinded by mass degeneration of community who believe that only way to go in dung is berserker stats build.

If this is truth then tell me why other stats are in game? Why are not berserker stats on every single item in the game? Because someone want to people think about their builds. Someone wants to people run different enjoyable builds. Then hodor hodor bam bam.

Please think about it. Not everyone enjoys just dmg. Someone wants to be support for the rest of the party. Or even healer in options of GW2.

basically the current dungeon players are not concerned with what works, but with what works best. If Dungeons are going to continue to be a thing the dungeon community needs to expand to encompass players who just want to play some dungeons.

Even if zerk wasnt the thing, they still would only want specific builds, and exclude others.

That’s the thing, a lot of the people here do that, there’s lots of folks who will play their necro. It’s simply that facts are facts, some things are poor/inefficient, you can choose to do whatever you want but you really should know the costs of choices you make. If I do X how will it affect Y?

And, there’s NOTHING wrong with asking for like minded individuals to play with. The jerk in the group is not the guy asking for people who think like him to join him, but it’s the guy who dismisses their groups opinion from the start.

phys.7689:

If Dungeons are going to continue to be a thing the dungeon community needs to expand to encompass players who just want to play some dungeons.

the dungeon speed run community is bigger now than its ever been. Not seeing the pressure to “encompass” non-conformists.

Droggy.7863:

Humble when learn something new? Ok I´m done. I prefer thinking about my build then copy one build like thousands of sheeps. This is what makes GW so enjoyable for me. Thanks for everything guys

Running a 5 zerk warrior makes you by default a sheep (a bad one even).

hybrid.5027:

phys.7689:

If Dungeons are going to continue to be a thing the dungeon community needs to expand to encompass players who just want to play some dungeons.

the dungeon speed run community is bigger now than its ever been. Not seeing the pressure to “encompass” non-conformists.

the speedrun community is larger, but the overall community versus the total amount of players is small.
I dont really care if people want to play a certain way, but i think the developers are not giving dungeon development the effort it deserves because they feel its market is too niche.
And its very true that it is a lot harder to experience dungeons in a non speed run fashion than it used to be.

And lets be honest hybrid, if the meta says the best party is a certain 5 classes(and its noticeably better), that is what the speedrun community will do, however, that means 3/8th of the proffessions will have no place.

thats just the what it means. I am not seeking to erase the speedrun community, i am just saying that by its very nature, speedrun community will not work for many players. For dungeons to thrive, it needs to appeal to both the current community and expand into regular players as well.

phys.7689:

Droggy.7863:

I think this ZERKER mania is stupid.

Every dung finder says 80 lvl ZERKER only or kick. How could a new player of GW enjoy the game when some guy is so blinded by mass degeneration of community who believe that only way to go in dung is berserker stats build.

If this is truth then tell me why other stats are in game? Why are not berserker stats on every single item in the game? Because someone want to people think about their builds. Someone wants to people run different enjoyable builds. Then hodor hodor bam bam.

Please think about it. Not everyone enjoys just dmg. Someone wants to be support for the rest of the party. Or even healer in options of GW2.

basically the current dungeon players are not concerned with what works, but with what works best. If Dungeons are going to continue to be a thing the dungeon community needs to expand to encompass players who just want to play some dungeons.

Even if zerk wasnt the thing, they still would only want specific builds, and exclude others.

Try this guide: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jra3jV_ckYg

Jerus.4350:

phys.7689:

Droggy.7863:

I think this ZERKER mania is stupid.

Every dung finder says 80 lvl ZERKER only or kick. How could a new player of GW enjoy the game when some guy is so blinded by mass degeneration of community who believe that only way to go in dung is berserker stats build.

If this is truth then tell me why other stats are in game? Why are not berserker stats on every single item in the game? Because someone want to people think about their builds. Someone wants to people run different enjoyable builds. Then hodor hodor bam bam.

Please think about it. Not everyone enjoys just dmg. Someone wants to be support for the rest of the party. Or even healer in options of GW2.

basically the current dungeon players are not concerned with what works, but with what works best. If Dungeons are going to continue to be a thing the dungeon community needs to expand to encompass players who just want to play some dungeons.

Even if zerk wasnt the thing, they still would only want specific builds, and exclude others.

That’s the thing, a lot of the people here do that, there’s lots of folks who will play their necro. It’s simply that facts are facts, some things are poor/inefficient, you can choose to do whatever you want but you really should know the costs of choices you make. If I do X how will it affect Y?

And, there’s NOTHING wrong with asking for like minded individuals to play with. The jerk in the group is not the guy asking for people who think like him to join him, but it’s the guy who dismisses their groups opinion from the start.

i wasnt putting a value judgement on it, i was just stating thats how it currently is. I see this guy and another guy saying, why are people asking for these specific parties? you dont need this to win, and im pointing out that their goal isnt to win, its to win fast.

im not really saying there is anything wrong with making like minded parties. It makes more sense to do than not to do.
The big problem as i see it, is that because people are mostly seeing these parties on lfg, they feel like they cant play dungeons, wont get groups, or will be kicked.

phys.7689:

The big problem as i see it, is that because people are mostly seeing these parties on lfg, they feel like they cant play dungeons, wont get groups, or will be kicked.

I’m looking for a job. I had that interview where I was so lost I didn’t understand half of what the recruter was saying. Why is he looking for someone so qualified? There is no need of a degree to get paid a wage. Instead of actually getting a degree I’ll just remain jobless and feed on living support the State can offer me.

RSLongK.8961:

phys.7689:

Droggy.7863:

I think this ZERKER mania is stupid.

Every dung finder says 80 lvl ZERKER only or kick. How could a new player of GW enjoy the game when some guy is so blinded by mass degeneration of community who believe that only way to go in dung is berserker stats build.

If this is truth then tell me why other stats are in game? Why are not berserker stats on every single item in the game? Because someone want to people think about their builds. Someone wants to people run different enjoyable builds. Then hodor hodor bam bam.

Please think about it. Not everyone enjoys just dmg. Someone wants to be support for the rest of the party. Or even healer in options of GW2.

basically the current dungeon players are not concerned with what works, but with what works best. If Dungeons are going to continue to be a thing the dungeon community needs to expand to encompass players who just want to play some dungeons.

Even if zerk wasnt the thing, they still would only want specific builds, and exclude others.

Try this guide: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jra3jV_ckYg

Doesnt really work that way, some people who join open parties still expect people to be playing with speedrun focus many times. There was two threads recently, one from the point of view of the guy creating an open party, where the two people who joined expected them to be playing better
and another where a guy joined an open party, only to be horrified that they werent playing meta, or with a high skill level.

point is, open parties are not a safe haven.

Does a 5 warrior party even need phalanx? Assuming forceful greatsword? This should go in the puglife thread.

Miku Lawrence.6329:

phys.7689:

The big problem as i see it, is that because people are mostly seeing these parties on lfg, they feel like they cant play dungeons, wont get groups, or will be kicked.

I’m looking for a job. I had that interview where I was so lost I didn’t understand half of what the recruter was saying. Why is he looking for someone so qualified? There is no need of a degree to get paid a wage. Instead of actually getting a degree I’ll just remain jobless and feed on living support the State can offer me.

the goal of the dungeons in the game is to be played by players, as many players as possible, of varying skill levels.

your analogy is off, because this isnt a job, its a product. And the product needs to appeal to as many people as possible. If this product narrows its focus to be ONLY for the elite, it will no longer be developed.

The goal of dungeons should be to be easy start, hard to master. You want a everyone to be able to get joy out it. The current climate is really bad because people feel like they cant even attempt the dungeon. Thats probably the worst thing because then people arent even trying the content.

If anet feels that only 5% of people can enjoy dungeons, they will give it 5% of the resources, or possibly none of the resources, and seek to expand other parts of the game to get 100% of a larger audience. Which up on until HoT seemed to be the trend we were seeing.

So, Meta is most popular and it’s scaring away all the non meta players who are in abundance but don’t realize that there are others out there or are unwilling to find eachother and play with eachother? Do you think that maybe it’s because dungeons are so long and grueling when you lack the damage to down things in reasonable times, so the dungeons simply aren’t much fun when you go with a venomshare P/P thief, staff guard, Nomad water camping Staff Ele, Shoutheal War, and a Condi Necro?

I can’t help but feel it’s the second, playing poorly and taking an hour to do a path for a reward that is scaled at around 10-15mins would surely wear on me.

As for your comment on 3/8 professions being useless, you surely can’t mean ranger/engi? They’re both pretty awesome. They may not be part of the Record Run meta, but they surely have slots in your daily Speed Run. Record runs are built under the assumption that you will fail sometimes, they go for broke. Speed Runs however don’t need to take that mentality, your daily runs can easily slip in a ranger/engi effectively.

Point is, dungeons are easy to start and easy to master. People are just spoonfed kittens.

Jerus.4350:

So, Meta is most popular and it’s scaring away all the non meta players who are in abundance but don’t realize that there are others out there or are unwilling to find eachother and play with eachother? Do you think that maybe it’s because dungeons are so long and grueling when you lack the damage to down things in reasonable times, so the dungeons simply aren’t much fun when you go with a venomshare P/P thief, staff guard, Nomad water camping Staff Ele, Shoutheal War, and a Condi Necro?

I can’t help but feel it’s the second, playing poorly and taking an hour to do a path for a reward that is scaled at around 10-15mins would surely wear on me.

As for your comment on 3/8 professions being useless, you surely can’t mean ranger/engi? They’re both pretty awesome. They may not be part of the Record Run meta, but they surely have slots in your daily Speed Run. Record runs are built under the assumption that you will fail sometimes, they go for broke. Speed Runs however don’t need to take that mentality, your daily runs can easily slip in a ranger/engi effectively.

i do think that the current state is largely due to development of dungeons themselves.
Even though the situation seems circular, many problems actually feed themselves. Yes, there are a bunch of people who dont play dungeons, because they think they wont get to play dungeons, which creates the very situation they feared. Its up to anet to do something to break this cycle.

im not really casting blame at this point, im just identifying the current state of affairs.

as for the 3/8ths, i was speaking hypothetically, because at some points the meta has favored certain jobs or group compositions. And if you are not playing those jobs, you are not really wanted by a group with that focus.
It is for this reason that i dont think speedrunning can ever be inclusive. which is why i dont think its good if it becomes the primary dungeon playstyle.

I think it however is good/fine as one of the higher end goals, even though i think they could encourage more varied high end goals.

Miku Lawrence.6329:

Point is, dungeons are easy to start and easy to master. People are just spoonfed kittens.

its not easy to start if people arent starting it. easy to start means spoonfed kittens dont have problems starting it.

If i design a website for a company trying to get their name out with awesome functionality, but 50% of the people who go to the website leave because it says it works on firefox (which is easy to get, free and many people prefer it)

The company will not be satisfied, and probably pay someone else to design a new site. My site wasnt easy enough to start.

Droggy.7863:

I’m not saying that barserker is bad. I’m just saying that the entire group of berserkers is wrong. I run cof with my berserker war along with another 4 zerk wars and it takes two times more then run with just 1 support that gives mights and other buffs

Wow really? A team of 5 berserker warriors takes a long time to run cof p1? Who would have thought, I mean wars have the highest DPS in the game, right???

In fact, they do not, not even close. So what occurred was entirely predictable and unsurprising.

Also did you just imply that warrior’s do not have access to “might and other buffs”?

I would recommend checking out the following links:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blast_finisher
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Banner_of_Strength
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Banner_of_Discipline

phys.7689:

as for the 3/8ths, i was speaking hypothetically, because at some points the meta has favored certain jobs or group compositions. And if you are not playing those jobs, you are not really wanted by a group with that focus.
It is for this reason that i dont think speedrunning can ever be inclusive. which is why i dont think its good if it becomes the primary dungeon playstyle.

Speed running is a REALLY REALLY wide term. But of course it favour certain jobs and group compositions. It used to do it and it will continue to do it. It change overtime when the community understand something new (don’t really happen now after 2 years, but use to happen a lot) or that the game change. We use to prefer no ranger because it was a bad profession in a speed running mentality. Anet changed it and even if its not a record run profession, its a pretty awesome speed run profession. But necromancer is still not wanted because it still less good in speed run. Now what is your threshold on your requirement is personal to you. Do you only want the best Ele/Thief/Warrior with Mesmer and Guardian in specific path? Or do you want any composition as long as its not a necromancer and you have a meta build with zerker gear? Or you don’t really care as long as everybody have a good build and know how to play. That’s not the speed running community that decide that, it’s a personal choice. What do you want to bring in your dungeons.

phys.7689:

Miku Lawrence.6329:

Point is, dungeons are easy to start and easy to master. People are just spoonfed kittens.

its not easy to start if people arent starting it. easy to start means spoonfed kittens dont have problems starting it.

If i design a website for a company trying to get their name out with awesome functionality, but 50% of the people who go to the website leave because it says it works on firefox (which is easy to get, free and many people prefer it)

The company will not be satisfied, and probably pay someone else to design a new site. My site wasnt easy enough to start.

I won’t say it’s really easy to get into dungeons, they’re a bit of a shock when you first see them… which is why we have guilds like NOOB/ARES

But, a lot of the anti dungeon people aren’t saying so because it doesn’t function for them. It’s more like you made a website and there is a dropdown menu for easy quick access to every page on there that anyone would need. Very efficiently organized, everything right at your finger tips. However, some people don’t like it, they like icons, they want all the icons… ok, so you made those, placed them down towards the bottom of the home page so they’re still easily accessable for those that are confused with the dropdown menu. This doesn’t help these customers though, they’re now outraged because they don’t want to see this stinking efficient dropdown menu. It should be removed! It should just be icons and that’s it, those who find the toolbar useful should just leave, they’re unimportant, icons will reign supreme!

That’s my thought on it :b

Jerus.4350:

phys.7689:

Miku Lawrence.6329:

Point is, dungeons are easy to start and easy to master. People are just spoonfed kittens.

its not easy to start if people arent starting it. easy to start means spoonfed kittens dont have problems starting it.

If i design a website for a company trying to get their name out with awesome functionality, but 50% of the people who go to the website leave because it says it works on firefox (which is easy to get, free and many people prefer it)

The company will not be satisfied, and probably pay someone else to design a new site. My site wasnt easy enough to start.

I won’t say it’s really easy to get into dungeons, they’re a bit of a shock when you first see them… which is why we have guilds like NOOB/ARES

But, a lot of the anti dungeon people aren’t saying so because it doesn’t function for them. It’s more like you made a website and there is a dropdown menu for easy quick access to every page on there that anyone would need. Very efficiently organized, everything right at your finger tips. However, some people don’t like it, they like icons, they want all the icons… ok, so you made those, placed them down towards the bottom of the home page so they’re still easily accessable for those that are confused with the dropdown menu. This doesn’t help these customers though, they’re now outraged because they don’t want to see this stinking efficient dropdown menu. It should be removed! It should just be icons and that’s it, those who find the toolbar useful should just leave, they’re unimportant, icons will reign supreme!

That’s my thought on it :b

yeah, and designing a website is about balancing all those different peoples wants/needs/desires.
right now the standard is based around simpler, easier interfaces with less options, but personally, my ideal situation is that it be simple for new users, and yet still offer experienced users superior functionality, without overloading the other guys.

Its not very easy to achieve, but thats the aim.

phys.7689:

hybrid.5027:

phys.7689:

If Dungeons are going to continue to be a thing the dungeon community needs to expand to encompass players who just want to play some dungeons.

the dungeon speed run community is bigger now than its ever been. Not seeing the pressure to “encompass” non-conformists.

the speedrun community is larger, but the overall community versus the total amount of players is small.
I dont really care if people want to play a certain way, but i think the developers are not giving dungeon development the effort it deserves because they feel its market is too niche.
And its very true that it is a lot harder to experience dungeons in a non speed run fashion than it used to be.

And lets be honest hybrid, if the meta says the best party is a certain 5 classes(and its noticeably better), that is what the speedrun community will do, however, that means 3/8th of the proffessions will have no place.

thats just the what it means. I am not seeking to erase the speedrun community, i am just saying that by its very nature, speedrun community will not work for many players. For dungeons to thrive, it needs to appeal to both the current community and expand into regular players as well.

So your argument is, if we immediately ended all party filtering and happily invited more play how you wanters and their trashway builds, it would grow the community and we would get more developer attention.

No deal.

I’d rather be part of a good, small community that gets no developer attention than a bad, large community who gets lot’s of developer attention. Not to mention, there isn’t much evidence that “developer attention” would lead to anything good. #fractured #TAFU

hybrid.5027:

phys.7689:

hybrid.5027:

phys.7689:

If Dungeons are going to continue to be a thing the dungeon community needs to expand to encompass players who just want to play some dungeons.

the dungeon speed run community is bigger now than its ever been. Not seeing the pressure to “encompass” non-conformists.

the speedrun community is larger, but the overall community versus the total amount of players is small.
I dont really care if people want to play a certain way, but i think the developers are not giving dungeon development the effort it deserves because they feel its market is too niche.
And its very true that it is a lot harder to experience dungeons in a non speed run fashion than it used to be.

And lets be honest hybrid, if the meta says the best party is a certain 5 classes(and its noticeably better), that is what the speedrun community will do, however, that means 3/8th of the proffessions will have no place.

thats just the what it means. I am not seeking to erase the speedrun community, i am just saying that by its very nature, speedrun community will not work for many players. For dungeons to thrive, it needs to appeal to both the current community and expand into regular players as well.

So your argument is, if we immediately ended all party filtering and happily invited more play how you wanters and their trashway builds, it would grow the community and we would get more developer attention.

No deal.

I’d rather be part of a good, small community that gets no developer attention than a bad, large community who gets lot’s of developer attention. Not to mention, there isn’t much evidence that “developer attention” would lead to anything good. #fractured #TAFU

no, i never said to end all party filtering at all.
I agree that developer attention hasnt been all good, but even though i dont like everything they did in fractured, i did enjoy having 3-4 new fractals

Im not suggesting they destroy the speed running community, im suggesting they need to encourage more than just the speed run community. Ideal situation, speedrun community basically does as it does now, but more people play dungeons, with varying goals. As well, a better starter experience Dungeon community grows, speedrun community also grows.

side note, kitten your hatred is strong.

How?

Again, the community has tried to open it’s arms and bring people in to teach dungeons. We’ve had people spend the time to detail every single aspect of every single dungeon. We’ve had people put up dozens of guides on how to do things. We have build recommendations with variations to fit different desires.

What can really be done to help that situation? I really can’t help but feel that there is no helping those people who give up before they ever really put any effort in. And there surely isn’t helping those that enjoy their Nomad tank builds and feel that they’re contributing.

phys.7689:

no, i never said to end all party filtering at all.
I agree that developer attention hasnt been all good, but even though i dont like everything they did in fractured, i did enjoy having 3-4 new fractals

Im not suggesting they destroy the speed running community, im suggesting they need to encourage more than just the speed run community. Ideal situation, speedrun community basically does as it does now, but more people play dungeons, with varying goals. As well, a better starter experience Dungeon community grows, speedrun community also grows.

side note, kitten your hatred is strong.

If you are suggesting ‘’they need to encourage more than just the speed run community’’. That mean that you consider that right now or in the past they encouraged just the speed run community?

Do you have example of that, because I think that just a cute little phrase with no meaning, but if you can prove me wrong I would be glad.