Guild Wars 2

In City of Heroes(CoH). For those who might be unfamiliar, it was a sister game to GW2 and was in the NC soft family. I played a mentalist there, akin to a gw1 Mesmer.

The difference was that in CoH, raids welcomed pretty much anyone strong enough to participate. There would be a leader who would call out needed moves in text.

I even went on some rather esoteric ones, earning the “Protector of Kindness” title along with “Master of Olympus” among others.

In GW2 I was grudgingly allowed on one raid, “allowed”… Then was kicked without notice for an error that I still don’t know the nature of.

The elitism I perceive among raiders will ultimately be self destructive.

I don’t even bother to ask any more for a group,. It’s a waste of my time and somebody gets to tell me I’m not worthy. Kitten that.

A couple years back it was the same with dungeons. I endured the hazing, learned the paths. Now, it’s hard to get a group and I mostly do teaching runs.

Raids will be the same.

yeah feelsbadman you run into some pretty bad pugs it happens :/

Ithilwen.1529:

I don’t even bother to ask any more for a group,. It’s a waste of my time and somebody gets to tell me I’m not worthy. Kitten that.

Well, if you dont know the mechanics you are a waste of time for 9 other players.
If you dont know the mechanics join a training group or look for a guild. Even some experienced raid groups take beginners. Just dont join a group that requires you to actually know the encounter (and im not speaking about knowing the encounter through guides).

Icetea.3204:

Ithilwen.1529:

I don’t even bother to ask any more for a group,. It’s a waste of my time and somebody gets to tell me I’m not worthy. Kitten that.

Well, if you dont know the mechanics you are a waste of time for 9 other players.

Do you realize that you just more or less told me I’m not worthy? That, sir, ended my attention.

I’d join a training run. Hell, I might even attend classes.

With attitudes like the one you just displayed, however, it really doesn’t seem worth it.

Ithilwen.1529:

Icetea.3204:

Ithilwen.1529:

I don’t even bother to ask any more for a group,. It’s a waste of my time and somebody gets to tell me I’m not worthy. Kitten that.

Well, if you dont know the mechanics you are a waste of time for 9 other players.

Do you realize that you just more or less told me I’m not worthy? That, sir, ended my attention.

I’d join a training run. Hell, I might even attend classes.

With attitudes like the one you just displayed, however, it really doesn’t seem worth it.

not sure what he should tell you most likely got kicked because of a mistake you did u didn’t tell you you are not “Worthy” he told you u should get as much experience from training before going for serious runs.

zealex.9410:

not sure what he should tell you most likely got kicked because of a mistake you did u didn’t tell you you are not “Worthy” he told you u should get as much experience from training before going for serious runs.

You know, in more civilized and serious raid MMOs people usually telling you if you are doing something wrong, not kicking you without saying a word.

To be fair, in CoH/CoV you could get kicked for stupid things just as fast as well (especially if you didn’t have proper build).
Man, i miss that game, so much wasted potential, it was (and still is) way ahead of some MMORPG back then.

> Got kicked once
> The elitism will be the death of this game

Constructive feedback: join a gold that is about becoming good at raiding and playing at picture perfect settings. Try RTI.enjin.com as they don’t have requirements for their raids

Rednik.3809:

You know, in more civilized and serious raid MMOs people usually telling you if you are doing something wrong, not kicking you without saying a word.

Idk. If i look for exp people to raid with i dont want to explain the mechanics of bossfights. If you join and exp group i expect you to know what you have to do.
I wouldnt kick you for one single mistake tho. Everyone does mistakes. Its something that happens to all of us and is just human.
If you however repeat the same mistake over and over again while claiming to be exp i´d kick you without a word.

Ithilwen it really depends on a lot of things and there isn’t an accurate unbiased picture here. I have a person in raids I lead who can only really play with one hand, they prefer warrior, have wanted to play a more DPS role and I have managed to help find the right balance between what he wants and what the raid group needs. He will play guard as it’s his 2nd main and he can pull off decent DPS with it.

The thing is regardless it required practise and for them to learn and know mechanics as well as the willingness to play other classes on occasion or take one for the team and play what is needed. Before anyone says it, yes I frequently play classes I would rather not as the leader, I’ve played ele my main, learnt to be competent on engy, necro, druid, warrior and been learning chrono more recently as we are short on chronos.

The best way for you to get into raids is with friends who accept that you will be a liability for some time but intend to improve. You however need to uphold your part of this agreement though and be able to improve as well as to be useful to the raid even if it means playing something that isn’t mesmer.

There’s also an attitude you should have, you need to be willing to within reason do what the commander asks as soon as they ask, even if you think they are wrong you should as it’s their decision. Here is also a list of things I don’t really want from people I raid with regularity:
They don’t turn up reliably, late or simply skipping days without telling me.
They make no effort to improve and even without DPS meter you can see they’re playing badly.
They give everyone else grief, that’s not your responsibility it is the raid leaders to point out mistakes.
Poor general attitude in raids, can be things like burping, eating, chewing going afk without saying for 20 mins etc.
They have no idea of mechanics even after a several weeks.

I’m all for giving someone chances and time to get up to speed but the players themselves have to shoulder some of the responsibility for being up to raid standard too. qT have some nice guides for classes and videos of how they play optimally, Dulfy also has good guides, some with video showing mechanics and there’s many more on YouTube.

Icetea.3204:

Idk. If i look for exp people to raid with i dont want to explain the mechanics of bossfights. If you join and exp group i expect you to know what you have to do.
I wouldnt kick you for one single mistake tho. Everyone does mistakes. Its something that happens to all of us and is just human.
If you however repeat the same mistake over and over again while claiming to be exp i´d kick you without a word.

I cannot see any “I joined super ultra exp only oneshot group” in his post. Can you?

If you’re looking to enter raids, it is unfair to others to expect them to carry you and just as unfair to expect them to teach you. There are raiders out there who like teaching newbies how to raid. I am one of them, and I regularly join training runs to lend a hand. However, training can take a while and I don’t always have the time to do it. Sometimes, I’m looking for a quick kill and if someone were to join that run looking to learn, I would not be happy.

Rednik.3809:

I cannot see any “I joined super ultra exp only oneshot group” in his post. Can you?

Its highly unlikely that he joined a trainingrun either. At least i cant think of any serious trainingrun that would kick you after the first few attempts.

Icetea.3204:

Rednik.3809:

I cannot see any “I joined super ultra exp only oneshot group” in his post. Can you?

Its highly unlikely that he joined a trainingrun either. At least i cant think of any serious trainingrun that would kick you after the first few attempts.

Agreed, and like always, those forum stories without background smell fishy and they have often turned into something completely different from what the OPs were trying to tell us at the beginning.

What it look like from this post that OP is probably that kind of player that join any group without reading what the leader posted in LFG.
Than come to forum calling raids toxic.
OP probably is the toxic one, its funny how often this happen : when a raid leader try to be really polite asking for someone to ping his gear because he is doing mistakes or are really bellow the half of the DPS you would expect from the class he is playing, then the person instead of pinging just start calling names and say the raid leader is elitist and toxic.

I’m sorry OP had a negative experience with raids so far, but it’s nothing personal. Raids are designed to be the ultimate/most challenging pve content in the game and every single raid member absolutely needs to be on top of their stuff. A lot of boss encounters are mechanic heavy and not properly understanding those mechanics can result in a wipe. Most raid groups just want a smooth/fast run with people who know what they’re doing, and you can’t really fault them for that.

One thing I can tell you is that when you try joining a PUG raid group via the LFG list, unless it says “training run” explicitly, just assume the raid group will expect you to know your mechanics and be on top of everything. And I know it can be frustrating trying to find a training run on LFG- they don’t really pop up that often. So as aforementioned by some people, just look at the Looking For section on this forum and look for a raiding guild that will accept newbies.

Wait… You are telling us that you joined a TRAINING run and got kicked without any explanation?
I’m sorry but I really can’t belive that

Like all other ranting posts: we don’t have the full picture here. So yeah, you’re gonna get some pushback on this, OP.

• We don’t know the situation. As in there are plenty of mechanics on the raid bosses that a single player can mess up for the whole team.
• We don’t know any of the conversation that took place prior to your kick be it conversation in party chat or on coms
• We don’t know what kind of group you joined. It can be you joined a training group all the way to the opposite extreme of “400+ LI, DOWN = KICK” group or somewhere in between.
• Did you bother to do a follow up? Some people are willing to talk to you after the fact and let you know why you were kicked be it you weren’t a good fit, you ignored instructions, you were jeopardizing a potential kill, or they could honestly have been a jerk about it. Point being, did you ask?

Ultimately, in this game, having experience even in a Training labeled group gets you favoritism. As in, the group probably gave you the boot because they were making room for someone they knew who be more beneficial to the group. Again, even in a training group having one more solid player makes a night/day difference.

Rednik.3809:

You know, in more civilized and serious raid MMOs people usually telling you if you are doing something wrong, not kicking you without saying a word.

Haha, that one was almost funny. Just like there are good people, there are jerks in any MMO. If you meet some, like the OP may have done – bad luck, move on.

Hey OP I feel sorry for that, we all had to learn at some point. Raids in GW2 have mechanics that make the whole raid fail if players don’t follow them. My guess is that you failed to do this or maybe you weren’t fulfilling the role you were expected to accomplish (i.e.: playing a Warrior and not giving Might to others with PS trait). Please note that even training raids are meant to complete the raid.

So my advice would be, if you still want to pug raids, to do the following:

1. Check sites such as qtfy.enjin.com or metabattle.com to compare what are you running against what is listed there. I’m not trying to force you into meta but please note that the more efficient you are, the less probability you’ll get to be kicked out of raids.
2. Watch some videos. It will take literally 5 minutes and will improve your performance.
3. Don’t jump to any raid. My advice would be to start with Stronghold of the faithful on ground team (escort) or Vale Guardian

CoH was def not a sister game of gw……….. it was a game people may have played at the same time….

I was kicked and blocked on the first encounter when I did not understand what to do.

In point of fact, I told the group I was new coming in.. though I came with full ascended armor and weapons.

Ithilwen.1529:

I was kicked and blocked on the first encounter when I did not understand what to do.

In point of fact, I told the group I was new coming in.. though I came with full ascended armor and weapons.

Cool story, join a training guild if your new. No need to clog up the forums with these complaints.

It sounds to me like you joined a group that wasn’t a training group without any idea of how to do the fight, very likely without a good build, and got kicked when it became immediately obvious that you couldn’t pull your own weight.

Yep, join a run that’s expecting an experienced player without experience and you’ll get kicked. If you want to learn, join training runs and watch videos. Don’t complain on the forums about how unfair life is because you got kicked from a group that you weren’t qualified for. Would you also complain if you got fired from a job that requires extensive c++ knowledge but all you can do is a bit of BASIC?

Ithilwen.1529:

I was kicked and blocked on the first encounter when I did not understand what to do.

In point of fact, I told the group I was new coming in.. though I came with full ascended armor and weapons.

ok, i dont dispute that you did these things, however something does not add up here. since i remember you from the pvp forum, i suggest taking a critical look at yourself with some hardcore resources like metabattle.com or the quantify site or something.

Why should people that actually took time to learn the encounters have you breeze through it? You’re not entitled to join any group in which you don’t meet the requirements.

Loop.8106:

Why should people that actually took time to learn the encounters have you breeze through it? You’re not entitled to join any group in which you don’t meet the requirements.

Ok, I agree on this. The word ‘entitlement’ is prob an apt one because most new raiders/casuals mistakenly believe they have a right to be accepted into any group asking for exp, when they aren’t.. especially when they put no effort or preparation into it (practice, read guides, etc.) Not a single group like that is ‘forced’ to retain u under these circumstances, nor should you ever expect them to.

So if we can all agree that under these alleged circumstances, the group’s intake of OP despite his questionable expertise was a privilege that was granted him, not a right that he can expect to willingly demand. There’s a diff in meaning here, and tbh OP it makes perfect sense that u were only ‘allowed’ into the group (as u put it), as there’s a fine line between being privileged and actually being granted a privilege. I am sorry to put this to u, but even in the other game previously u listed ur acceptance into their groups was a privilege and not an entitlement. I only say this so u understand the distinction hopefully. That u were granted the privilege more often then (or that they rarely if ever opted to rescind this privilege once given) doesn’t change the underlying relationship unfortunately.

Having said that, I do think that u and others similarly responding to OP here are dropping the ball when it comes to recognizing the heart of his issue and are either ignoring or misconstruing his plea for help. That raids r competitive is an oft-championed truth, but it doesn’t mean u have to lose moral decency along the way. Too many I seen in pugs have a nasty ‘ends justify the means’ attitude even when it comes to pugging for raids, which might in large part be what scares off casuals or semi-casual players like OP and other similar newcomers to such ruthless content. Silent kicking and insta-kicking (or when paired with silent blocking or insta-blocking of a unfortunate newcomer, a devastating combo) is still a widespread issue and I think that’s what OP was most shaken up about. I would gladly leave a group if a cmd outright asked me to, but silent kicking or even insta-kicking upon squad join is an ugly thing to have happen to you or anyone. Not to mention the majority of commanders that for some reason only they are aware of, decide to insta-block u right after an insta-kick.. that really drives the nail home. At least some notice or simple request to leave would work just as well, but apparently people can’t be bothered to type up a response or spend a precious few seconds of their time to communicate this clearly to the individual being singled out. Makes me sad for that presumably growing community they are speaking for.

Sorry about your bad experience. Not all groups are like that. Try looking for a group for Spirit Vale, because that’s the oldest raid and people have the most experience doing that. There are some easier encounters in the other wings to keep an eye out for as well. (Rescue the Pact Leader in Salvation Pass, Siege the Keep in Stronghold of the Faithful, and the second boss in Bastion of the Penitent)

I think it’s really weird that some of you in this thread are responding with so little empathy to a person just venting their frustration. They aren’t saying, “Nerf the raids” or whatever; they just said, “I had a bad experience, and it makes me feel this way.” I think the best way to experience the raid is among friends, so maybe try to join a guild with like-minded players. People are usually more patient with one another that way. PUG groups are more ruthless because they could dissolve at any moment, especially when they fail.

Fay.2357:

At least some of the responses are because we know the OP from the PvP forums and are familiar with this type of complaint from them. It’s usually not based on factual incidents, usually contains a giant helping of undocumented operator error, and usually ends up with circular arguments that are ultimately unhelpful to anyone involved.

Welcome to having an Internet resumé, ladies and gentlemen.

Some groups are jerks, we know that and clearly don’t deny it. But all we know is that you walked in, got booted, and now you’re making a post about it. No details whatsoever. So yeah, slightly raised eyebrow here as historically people who come into the forums to complain are indeed the source of the issue they are complaining about.

I keep reading this thread title and thinking “I used to raid, but then I took an arrow to the knee.”

Rising Dusk.2408:

I keep reading this thread title and thinking “I used to raid, but then I took an arrow to the knee.”

it wasn’t to his knee

Don’t let a bad instance like this ruin your path, Ithilwen. The prestige and power that comes with beating this kind of content is enough to make people with even the strongest mental fortitude collapse under the feelings of egoism and pride*. In my mind, the whole focus and purpose of this content is to ascend great challenges along side great friends. The elitism is painful to endure to be sure and to see it sweep across a virtual land that you love makes it that much more bitter, but keep following your path!

Ironically, pve elitism is the strongest of them all.