Guild Wars 2

Hey forum users,

I don’t know what the majority or minority opinion on this topic is but I’m pretty discontent with the way things have played out with HoT. In game I see similar opinions but it could just be a vocal minority….I don’t know. Lately I’ve had a major lack of interest in the game as a whole. I have a raid group that I log into the game for but that’s pretty much it.

Before HoT released I ran dungeons for 4-6 hours a day with many of my friends and guildies—all at different skill levels. It was easy to carry my bad friends. When HoT released the Raids I had to begin to pick and choose my friends, since many couldn’t even handle the mobs before VG let alone VG. The fractals update was very similar. Many didn’t want the challenge of higher level fractals and were turned off by the initial lack of rewards. Of course everyone stopped dungeon running since it had no value. When fractals “reward revamp” happened many figured it was only worth it to do the 50+ daily….so now if I want to do the daily I end up doing 3 swamps.

So basically when I log in to do instanced content with my friends I take my friends who are good at the game for about 2 hours or less on Monday to do the raid, then log in every other day to do 3 swamps in 30 minutes (which I end up having to PuG half the group). I had the impression that HoT would bring more content to the game in terms of rewarding content. I went from 4-6 hours daily to about 6 hours a week after the initial stary eyes from HoT’s release. Why is this OK?

I just want to play with my bad friends again and be rewarded for it.

Your friends should l2p and then raid with you.

HoT shifted the focus of pve content on open world content.

The instanced content is now ment to be more challenging and design wise I guess arenanet will want to keep it this way.

This allows for challenging content while not overburdening players who just want to go out and solo pve a bit. Just look at the recent nerfs to TD and other HoT open world content. DS is basically one big roller coaster ride to your reward with minor bumps.

There is no reason to reward brainless instanced content or up the rewards on such content. All this creates is funnel players away from arenanets current open world design with little control over what players do once they are in their own instance.

You’ve basically been hit by arenanets deflation model which removed gold from dungeons. At 4-6 hours you must have been gaining direct gold between 50-100 gold pre HoT per day. That’s been cut down to 15-25 gold from fractals basically. I don’t think it’s realistic to believe arenanet is going back to the old model.

Sadrien.3470:

Your friends should l2p and then raid with you.

Lol. That´s a great idea.
I got another one: How about urinating against the Niagara falls to watch them turn yellow?

Or how about new extreme forms of playing GW2 in general?
Like the increasingly popular wolf pack baiting version of the game where you have to play GW2 while running over a plain to the only tree standing there to avoid getting brought down by wolves?
^^

Now I usually help my “bad” friends to progress on their raid practice/kill after Monday. The bonus is I get to cap shards and they get closer to their kills. So my week would look like this: Kill the boss with a better group on Monday/Tuesday. Help the other inexperienced or just late scheduled groups from Tuesday to Friday then help with the learning/training groups or the Eternal groups during the weekend. I think it’s a misconception that if you cannot carry, you can’t play with your friends. What kinds of “friend” are you?

Sadrien.3470
Your friends should l2p and then raid with you.

No they shouldn’t. Not if they don’t WANT to.

It is the entire problem with HoT. It only caters to 1% of their player base.

Raids werent designed for all the players, it was designed to be something challenging, thus I dont see problem in picking the friends that are actually interested in raids and throwing out those who are not interested in them.
With these u can do all the other things in open world and there are enough in HoT.

DresdenAllblack.1249:

Sadrien.3470
Your friends should l2p and then raid with you.

No they shouldn’t. Not if they don’t WANT to.

It is the entire problem with HoT. It only caters to 1% of their player base.

There is no problem. If I “don’t WANT to” l2p <insert game x here>, then I don’t HAVE to. At the same time, I shouldn’t expect people to invite me to play <game x> with them when I refuse to learn to play <game x>. This pretty much applies to every game that exists…not just video games either. This encroaches into the area of respecting other people’s time and effort. If others are putting in the time and effort into improving to accomplish something…and you are not willing to even try…because you “don’t WANT to”…then it becomes disrespectful to nag/complain/cry about not being included.

It is also obviously not 1%, so stop exaggerating or regurgitating non-factual stuff you have read. ANET would be highly unlikely to go to this much effort for that small of a percentage of their player base. There is literally no area of the game that is inaccessible to anyone…good or bad. You are more than capable or organizing your bad friends into a raid and playing that content. They even reward you for failing…how much more can you ask? You and your bad friends can go in their and phiw to your heart’s content and still be rewarded. They would learn to play just by side effect of playing the content. If the OP’s complaint is that he can’t “carry his bad friends to victory”, then that is a different issue. Victory is supposed to be a challenge in this content…that’s the entire reason it was added…you aren’t supposed to be able to solo a raid.

Its been said already, but HoT is like 90%+ open world content. Open world content is zerg content. Faceless blobs of players swarming mobs all around the maps. How is that catering to 1% of the player base? Literally, the only instanced content in HoT are the 50+ fractal levels and the one raid. People need to step back from the whine pedestal and really look at how far ANET has gone to making content accessible to everyone.

I can understand ODB. But when I read the OP right, he wants to play with all of his firends instead of just the friends that want to raid. And he does not want to do this in open world but in a relaxed environment that is still instanced.

Maybe you can settle for lower fractals instead, Skittles? The reward is not that brilliant, but the effort is also more than manageable. Everyone with two hands can make low level fracs and if not, you can carry them through easily if you are experienced in fractals.

we are lacking content on GW2, all dungeon content is dead, fractals are too easy/boring after the damage decrease, we have only one raid wing as real content.

DresdenAllblack.1249:

Sadrien.3470
Your friends should l2p and then raid with you.

No they shouldn’t. Not if they don’t WANT to.

It is the entire problem with HoT. It only caters to 1% of their player base.

While I understand that HoT is a departure from core Tyria, it seems to me that more than 1% play raids, and much more than 1% do events in HoT.

Anet has changed its strategy (again) and this time, you’re not part of the new target audience.

The argument evident here is that you don’t like that the easiest content no longer pays out the best rewards.

That’s actually been fixed. Sucking at the game should not reward the player better than not sucking at the game. This is where raids and 50+ fractals are at now. They pay out better/unique rewards because they require you no not be bad.

HoT also shipped with substantially more content than that for people that are bad to enjoy, and that pays out a resonable amount of income just for showing up.

The case you’re making is that higher skill levels shouldn’t be rewarded with greater income, and that’s silly. Higher skill levels should absolutely be rewarded with higher income. It’s the basic risk/reward model that makes any PvE in any game even remotely interesting. You don’t kill more dangerous foes because they drop less loot. if they did, nobody would bother killing them, you know, like champions before they added champ bags.

You absolutely shouldn’t be rewarded equally or better for playing the game worse, and any instance that allows a single player to carry four other players is badly designed in the first place.

Either acknowledge that playing with your friends is more important than rewards, or acknowledge that rewards are more important to you than playing with your friends.

I agree with you Pope but the problem here is that they counter all logical arguments with:

“I’m not playing worse I’m just relaxing – stop punishing me for relaxing” and “I want to work at work and goof around in video games – how dare people that work in their game get more stuff than I do while randomly goofing?”.

People want to have their cake and eat it too – they want roles in Raids but really mean that they want their super special build they made themselves to be desirable and wanted by all groups.

They want “the zerker meta” to end but actually just want to safely clear content behind 0 risk cleric’s set-ups while they also netflix and chill.

It’s a really sad situation really.

To the OP? If you want to play with your friends there’s nothing stopping you – HoT is just not rewarding you as much for it.

PopeUrban.2578:

The argument evident here is that you don’t like that the easiest content no longer pays out the best rewards.

No….uh actually my argument (really its a concern not an actual argument) is that because the incentive to do dungeon content doesn’t exist, I can’t get my friends to do it with me—good or bad.

PopeUrban.2578:

That’s actually been fixed. Sucking at the game should not reward the player better than not sucking at the game. This is where raids and 50+ fractals are at now. They pay out better/unique rewards because they require you no not be bad.

Interesting. By interesting I mean you are saying stuff that sounds cool but also doesn’t exist. for example…better rewards? Uh, in one night of a dungeon train I made more money than I do in raids. I could also do them 7 days a week. Maybe your right, there shouldn’t be a reward for casual play (you aren’t) but there SHOULD be incentive for active content. Let us recall what the almighty John Smith said about dungeons…it has nothing to do with rewards, level of skill, or anything other than simply because Anet doesn’t want to keep that content running. So your “argument” really isnt that great.

PopeUrban.2578:

The case you’re making is that higher skill levels shouldn’t be rewarded with greater income,

See above. (hint: there isn’t a great reward or income for this more difficult content)

PopeUrban.2578:

Either acknowledge that playing with your friends is more important than rewards, or acknowledge that rewards are more important to you than playing with your friends.

I feel like I need to explicitly say this; there is no incentive to do dungeons so I can’t get my friends to do them.

Harper.4173:

“I’m not playing worse I’m just relaxing – stop punishing me for relaxing” and “I want to work at work and goof around in video games – how dare people that work in their game get more stuff than I do while randomly goofing?”.

I don’t think anyone has said that here….like at all.

Harper.4173:

They want “the zerker meta” to end but actually just want to safely clear content behind 0 risk cleric’s set-ups while they also netflix and chill.

Actually a lot of my bad friends run the zerker meta. also meta isn’t in question here.

Harper.4173:

To the OP? If you want to play with your friends there’s nothing stopping you – HoT is just not rewarding you as much for it.

Actually lack of incentives is stopping me because none of my friends want to do it.

P.S. I don’t know why I replied to the silliness that is these two posts but eh…bored from not playing GW2 I guess.

You’re specifically talking about dungeons because you’re stating there’s no incentive to do them. Then you’re saying that it’s not about the income. Note that the incentive to do raids and fractals is equal parts income and unique rewards. Dungeons have retained their unique rewards and lost their disproportionate income.

Fractals/raid absolutely pay out better in terms of rewards. Specifically, we’re talking about reliable acquisition of ascended items and progress toward legendary pieces. Technically several dungeons also pay out progress toward legendary pieces, but those that wanted them generally have them by now because its old.

Dungeons have the same primary incentives as they have always had. The difference is that they’re three year old content and everyone you know already has all the stuff they wanted and thus were only doing them for easy and brainless gold.

Fact is, the “incentive” to do dungeons before the nerf was that they had a disproportionate difficulty to gold earned ratio. That’s why people ran dungeons. it was easy money. Now it’s not. That’s why people won’t run them with you.

Granted, this is because anet simply couldn’t be bothered to fix old content to make it actually measure up to what it was paying out, but the core of your argument is, literally, that you can’t get your “bad friends” to play easy content that you carry them through because they’re not making enough gold from it. You thus aren’t motivated to play because your friends don’t want to play if they can’t be carried to fat money stacks without actually doing something that isn’t faceroll status easy.

If raiding and high level fractals were similarly easy for them to complete riding your coattails, you wouldn’t be having this problem, right? It’s human nature. People want the best reward for the least amount of effort. The reward for dungeons was extremely out of line with the effort compared to all other activites, that’s why they wer popular, but also why that reward was broken. That’s all I’m saying.

Skittles.7830:

P.S. I don’t know why I replied to the silliness that is these two posts but eh…bored from not playing GW2 I guess.

My post wasn’t aimed specifically at you – most of the times those are the replies we get in threads that discuss this sort of thing – either way to me it’s simple – if your friends only play because of reward incentives then yes – HoT has moved those rewards to a higher skill bracket.
Anet is basically saying “get better to get the rewards” or “don’t get these rewards”.

PopeUrban.2578:

You’re specifically talking about dungeons because you’re stating there’s no incentive to do them. Then you’re saying that it’s not about the income. Note that the incentive to do raids and fractals is equal parts income and unique rewards. Dungeons have retained their unique rewards and lost their disproportionate income.

Fractals/raid absolutely pay out better in terms of rewards. Specifically, we’re talking about reliable acquisition of ascended items and progress toward legendary pieces. Technically several dungeons also pay out progress toward legendary pieces, but those that wanted them generally have them by now because its old.

Dungeons have the same primary incentives as they have always had. The difference is that they’re three year old content and everyone you know already has all the stuff they wanted and thus were only doing them for easy and brainless gold.

Fact is, the “incentive” to do dungeons before the nerf was that they had a disproportionate difficulty to gold earned ratio. That’s why people ran dungeons. it was easy money. Now it’s not. That’s why people won’t run them with you.

Granted, this is because anet simply couldn’t be bothered to fix old content to make it actually measure up to what it was paying out, but the core of your argument is, literally, that you can’t get your “bad friends” to play easy content that you carry them through because they’re not making enough gold from it. You thus aren’t motivated to play because your friends don’t want to play if they can’t be carried to fat money stacks without actually doing something that isn’t faceroll status easy.

If raiding and high level fractals were similarly easy for them to complete riding your coattails, you wouldn’t be having this problem, right? It’s human nature. People want the best reward for the least amount of effort. The reward for dungeons was extremely out of line with the effort compared to all other activites, that’s why they wer popular, but also why that reward was broken. That’s all I’m saying.

How exactly were dungeon rewards disproportionate? I honestly have never heard this to be the case until after they were nerfed.
The rewards to dungeons were fine – they were what kept dungeons running.

There just isn’t enough “small group” content to keep people engaged. Raids take far too much commitment in terms of time and effort for most people, I guess you can call them casuals but they still deserve to play something.

Outside of the quick 30 min daily frac, there’s nothing else to do and even then I can only run it once with 4 other people.

I kinda agree with the OP although I wouldn’t necessarily call them bad players, just people with less time.

Just for info btw guys. Did you guys tried dungeons since HoT? You get more reward now than we used too. Yep we get less direct gold, but..

1) The power creep is heavy. We can finish dungoen way faster than we used too if you have even an half decent group.

2) It’s way easier to keep full buff now with herald. It doesn’t really help good group, but a pug with a PS Warrior and Herald gonna heave zero problem max most offensive buff. Giving even more speed to normal group compare to pre-hot.

3) The material you gain from dungeon are WAY more expensive. CM and TA in particular give you huge reward in low tier material.

In the end, you can end up with 10-20 gold per hour in dungeon right now, compare to the 5-10 gold per hour pre-hot.

Harper.4173:

How exactly were dungeon rewards disproportionate? I honestly have never heard this to be the case until after they were nerfed.
The rewards to dungeons were fine – they were what kept dungeons running.

One could easily make 12 gold in an hour while half asleep running dungeons, reliably, in liquid currency, and by knowing where to stand so that you didn’t actually have to play them.

I used to run them a lot as well, but I didn’t run them because they were fun. I ran them because they paid well while allowing me to watch netflix.

Anet had two ways to go with them. They could have fixed the numerous exploits and poorly designed fights so that they were actually worth what they paid, or they lower the payout so it actually matches the difficulty.

Unfortunately, Arenanet decided fractals are cheaper to update, and more valuable as content versus effort due to less emphasis on narrative, shorter development cycles, and a shared reward pool. This is why they routinely close exploits in fractals. The skip exploit in molten, boss permastun in cliffside, the stacking in the aetherblade laser room, etc. once those things start to get widely used by players, they’re instantly nerfed. Expect the next big patch to fix the new common exploits used in mossman and duo.

Basically, They were nerfed because it was the easiest way to bring them in line without actually fixing them. It’s sad, but understandable from a business and future content standpoint. Dungeons have a limited shelf life, while fractals, with how the fractal system is designed, have an unlimited shelf life due to how they are reused with scaling and instabilities with future updates.

I’d love to see dungeons fixed, but Raids have replaced that sort of narrative heavy group content, and fractals have replaced the ‘quick run’ content, so it makes sense they chose the easiest way to bring dungeon rewards in line with their difficulty.

You can make 12gold in an hr in open world while physically being asleep. And you’re limited to doing each dungeon once a day and some of the dungeons were not even worth doing…So that’s a poor excuse to nerf them. There wasn’t anything disproportionate about them. The only thing that was a tad much for dungeons was the high experience gain from them, but they nerfed that into the ground far beyond what it should have been nerfed.

Kagamiku.9731:

You can make 12gold in an hr in open world while physically being asleep. And you’re limited to doing each dungeon once a day and some of the dungeons were not even worth doing…So that’s a poor excuse to nerf them. There wasn’t anything disproportionate about them. The only thing that was a tad much for dungeons was the high experience gain from them, but they nerfed that into the ground far beyond what it should have been nerfed.

A lot of the gold one is making in persistent PvE play is mostly not liquid gold — unless players are selling the blues/greens to a merchant rather than salvaging and selling mats. ANet is not as concerned about players making bank by selling on the TP than they do about the game creating gold.

Then there’s the stated reason dungeon gold was axed. They want players not to do them in favor of fractals and raids.

To me & my friends dungeon gold isn’t the issue, even pre HoT we wouldn’t run a lot of dungeon because it was boring.

What we could do however, was 50, 40, 30 fractals. There’s just nothing else for people to do now though that don’t want to raid.

Lord Kuru.3685:

Anet has changed its strategy (again) and this time, you’re not part of the new target audience.

Anet deviating from their manifesto and turning everything into grinding fest is the reason many of my friends are “taking a break” from the game (and so am I). Even the new precursors can’t even be obtained without grinding, everything is about slowing players down and it’s turning the game into a job. If you remember how Guild Wars 1 avoided grinding as much as possible then you probably are as disappointing as I am about HoT. But then, Guild Wars 1 expansions were more generous with content.

In my opinion since the game went free to play Guild Wars is destined to be marketed for a completely different audience, probably in Asia, that doesn’t mind repeating the same thing over and over.

Back to the topic:
I also wished I could finish the new Raid with my friends as well, but like me they have jobs and never expected the raids to be about knowing everything by heart instead of being a good player. Anyway, once I saw the raid was just 3 boss fights I lost the will to even play them and decided to catch-up on all the other games I missed in 2015 instead.

Xillllix.3485:

Anet deviating from their manifesto and turning everything into grinding fest is the reason many of my friends are “taking a break” from the game (and so am I).

Xillllix.3485:

I also wished I could finish the new Raid with my friends as well, but like me they have jobs and never expected the raids to be about knowing everything by heart instead of being a good player.

Are you me?

Seriously though, this is exactly how I feel about the content right now. Without insane RNG, full-time grinding or playing some of the worst-designed raids I’ve seen (in a game that wasn’t supposed to be about raids -.-) – I can’t make even the slightest bit of progress towards any goal. This, combined with the horrible connection I’ve had to the game recently (everything else runs fine, including demanding online games), is really sapping my will to play. I want to play this game, I want to have fun… but non-existent drops, insane gold-gates and content that rewards copying a build instead of good play… this is the opposite of GW2.

But hey, we got raids now, so the 90% of the playerbase who are raiders are happy. ^^

Chameleon Dude.1564:

Are you me?

Seriously though, this is exactly how I feel about the content right now. Without insane RNG, full-time grinding or playing some of the worst-designed raids I’ve seen (in a game that wasn’t supposed to be about raids -.-) – I can’t make even the slightest bit of progress towards any goal. This, combined with the horrible connection I’ve had to the game recently (everything else runs fine, including demanding online games), is really sapping my will to play. I want to play this game, I want to have fun… but non-existent drops, insane gold-gates and content that rewards copying a build instead of good play… this is the opposite of GW2.

But hey, we got raids now, so the 90% of the playerbase who are raiders are happy. ^^

lol No but many feel the same way. Anet has been moving away from their manifesto ever since they removed SAB from the game and made grindy content with the new maps instead of adventure-based instanced content. I’m mentionning SAB because I think the moment they decided to drop SAB coincides with the decision to turn this game into a grindfest.

Skittles I don’t know what types of friends you got but real friends will stick with you no matter what. I poured my energy into helping my friends on their gorseval attempt which lasted 8 entire hours, we failed but after some positive energy they almost have him down with no personal incentive to get any rewards because they were my friends.

Maybe you should take a step back and rethink on how you define the word friend and who you label it with because it sounds to me that they aren’t really your friends.

Just a personal observation based on what your saying.

I have guildmates who are complete strangers still helping someone complete their dungeon master title because he doesn’t have it yet after 2 years of playing this game.

PopeUrban.2578:

Harper.4173:

How exactly were dungeon rewards disproportionate? I honestly have never heard this to be the case until after they were nerfed.
The rewards to dungeons were fine – they were what kept dungeons running.

One could easily make 12 gold in an hour while half asleep running dungeons, reliably, in liquid currency, and by knowing where to stand so that you didn’t actually have to play them.

I used to run them a lot as well, but I didn’t run them because they were fun. I ran them because they paid well while allowing me to watch netflix.

Anet had two ways to go with them. They could have fixed the numerous exploits and poorly designed fights so that they were actually worth what they paid, or they lower the payout so it actually matches the difficulty.

Unfortunately, Arenanet decided fractals are cheaper to update, and more valuable as content versus effort due to less emphasis on narrative, shorter development cycles, and a shared reward pool. This is why they routinely close exploits in fractals. The skip exploit in molten, boss permastun in cliffside, the stacking in the aetherblade laser room, etc. once those things start to get widely used by players, they’re instantly nerfed. Expect the next big patch to fix the new common exploits used in mossman and duo.

Basically, They were nerfed because it was the easiest way to bring them in line without actually fixing them. It’s sad, but understandable from a business and future content standpoint. Dungeons have a limited shelf life, while fractals, with how the fractal system is designed, have an unlimited shelf life due to how they are reused with scaling and instabilities with future updates.

I’d love to see dungeons fixed, but Raids have replaced that sort of narrative heavy group content, and fractals have replaced the ‘quick run’ content, so it makes sense they chose the easiest way to bring dungeon rewards in line with their difficulty.

One could say the same thing about the silverwastes chest farm train – there was no strain and you didn’t really have to do much to get it done.

I will also disagree that they were disproportional in reward – dungeons were hard – but they were also old. Dungeons weren’t easy on bad, non-meta and new players – not even 3 years into the game’s life.

I honestly find it lazy and upsetting that instead of fixing whatever was broken bug-wise and just keeping dungeons they swept them under the rug by basically nerfing the rewards into the ground ensuring nobody would do them again.

Xillllix.3485:

Chameleon Dude.1564:

Are you me?

Seriously though, this is exactly how I feel about the content right now. Without insane RNG, full-time grinding or playing some of the worst-designed raids I’ve seen (in a game that wasn’t supposed to be about raids -.-) – I can’t make even the slightest bit of progress towards any goal. This, combined with the horrible connection I’ve had to the game recently (everything else runs fine, including demanding online games), is really sapping my will to play. I want to play this game, I want to have fun… but non-existent drops, insane gold-gates and content that rewards copying a build instead of good play… this is the opposite of GW2.

But hey, we got raids now, so the 90% of the playerbase who are raiders are happy. ^^

lol No but many feel the same way. Anet has been moving away from their manifesto ever since they removed SAB from the game and made grindy content with the new maps instead of adventure-based instanced content. I’m mentionning SAB because I think the moment they decided to drop SAB coincides with the decision to turn this game into a grindfest.

How are you claiming these things? How long have you been with the game?

Anet has moved away from the manifesto ever since they introduced ascended gear 2 months or so after release. How is it you’re bringing up the manifesto now since we’re all aware that 1 year into the game’s development the manifesto was a distant memory and not relevant.

Tell your friends to stop being such filthy casuals and get better.

IllegalChocolate.6938:

Skittles I don’t know what types of friends you got but real friends will stick with you no matter what.

That’s….uh….nice but I’m not a fairy tale fan.

Now on topic: This post isn’t really about my friends. It is about me spending $100 real dollars on a game expac that killed all the content many love and added VERY VERY LITTLE similar content. In fact the only added instanced content was Raids and the story. Fractals was just a reskin of something we had already had! Not to mention the fact that pre-HoT fractal daily we had 1 swamp for fractals and then 3 random maps (one was a boss), we do just 3 swamps for the good daily now. SO MY POINT IS I ACTUALLY PAID $100 FOR CONTENT LOSS. (I’m not capping there to show my anger but rather in hopes that it catches the attention of the anet dev casually browsing.)

I know someones going to come back with something I’m sure they thought long and hard about and think is brilliant but the reality is that Anet killed the game for me and many of my friends. I don’t even log in for daily fractals anymore cause it isn’t fun either doing 3 swamps or trying to convince people to do another map. I log in on Mondays and do the raid then log out.

Chameleon Dude.1564:

Xillllix.3485:

Anet deviating from their manifesto and turning everything into grinding fest is the reason many of my friends are “taking a break” from the game (and so am I).

Xillllix.3485:

I also wished I could finish the new Raid with my friends as well, but like me they have jobs and never expected the raids to be about knowing everything by heart instead of being a good player.

Are you me?

Seriously though, this is exactly how I feel about the content right now. Without insane RNG, full-time grinding or playing some of the worst-designed raids I’ve seen (in a game that wasn’t supposed to be about raids -.-) – I can’t make even the slightest bit of progress towards any goal. This, combined with the horrible connection I’ve had to the game recently (everything else runs fine, including demanding online games), is really sapping my will to play. I want to play this game, I want to have fun… but non-existent drops, insane gold-gates and content that rewards copying a build instead of good play… this is the opposite of GW2.

But hey, we got raids now, so the 90% of the playerbase who are raiders are happy. ^^

The game is not grindy at all if you do not set yourself unrealistic goals. Maybe settle for a nice looking auric weapon instead of a legendary instead for example.

Skittles.7830:

It is about me spending $100 real dollars on a game expac

No.. You spent $50 on a game expac and $50 on some gems and skins – don’t be adding $50 to the price of the game because of your poor purchasing decisions xD

Coulter.2315:

No.. You spent $50 on a game expac and $50 on some gems and skins – don’t be adding $50 to the price of the game because of your poor purchasing decisions xD

It really doesn’t matter.

I bought the $100 pack and Anet still got the money. The line items on the purchase don’t matter. What does matter is that at the time I was under the impression that dungeons would still be a thing and that we were getting challenging group content. Instead they made a late (if not last minute) decision to nerf dungeons and make fractals boring. Raids ARE fun! But they are on a weekly reset. So I actually play like 1 time a week unless I feel like capping out my raid shards.

Harper.4173:

Xillllix.3485:

Chameleon Dude.1564:

Are you me?

Seriously though, this is exactly how I feel about the content right now. Without insane RNG, full-time grinding or playing some of the worst-designed raids I’ve seen (in a game that wasn’t supposed to be about raids -.-) – I can’t make even the slightest bit of progress towards any goal. This, combined with the horrible connection I’ve had to the game recently (everything else runs fine, including demanding online games), is really sapping my will to play. I want to play this game, I want to have fun… but non-existent drops, insane gold-gates and content that rewards copying a build instead of good play… this is the opposite of GW2.

But hey, we got raids now, so the 90% of the playerbase who are raiders are happy. ^^

lol No but many feel the same way. Anet has been moving away from their manifesto ever since they removed SAB from the game and made grindy content with the new maps instead of adventure-based instanced content. I’m mentionning SAB because I think the moment they decided to drop SAB coincides with the decision to turn this game into a grindfest.

How are you claiming these things? How long have you been with the game?

Anet has moved away from the manifesto ever since they introduced ascended gear 2 months or so after release. How is it you’re bringing up the manifesto now since we’re all aware that 1 year into the game’s development the manifesto was a distant memory and not relevant.

They shifted the attention of dungeon consumers to FotM and raids. To get the most out of FotM, you need Fractal Masteries. Both Masteries and raids require purchase of HoT. It’s not hard to imagine that those facts played some part in the decision-making.

Skittles.7830:

Coulter.2315:

No.. You spent $50 on a game expac and $50 on some gems and skins – don’t be adding $50 to the price of the game because of your poor purchasing decisions xD

It really doesn’t matter.

I bought the $100 pack and Anet still got the money.

If I spend £1 on milk and £1 on stuff I don’t actually want I don’t come home and say “that shop is kitten and this milk was not worth £2!”

Coulter.2315:

If I spend £1 on milk and £1 on stuff I don’t actually want I don’t come home and say “that shop is kitten and this milk was not worth £2!”

Thats a bad analogy. The situation is more like the milk comes with 1.5 euros worth of other stuff (from the same dairy farmer) but you only have to pay 1 extra euro. They also say that the milk is the greatest you’ve ever had. Then you get home and drink the milk and its not that great. Then you realize that you just gave a less than mediocre milk company 2 euros for terrible milk. Doesn’t matter if the extra stuff was good or not the bad dairy farmer got the money to make more bad milk.

Also even at $50 I don’t feel I got my money’s worth. I still don’t know why you are stuck on a pricing thing though. It’s kinda like a semantic argument—pointless.

Skittles.7830:

Also even at $50 I don’t feel I got my money’s worth. I still don’t know why you are stuck on a pricing thing though. It’s kinda like a semantic argument—pointless.

Just a pattern I’ve noticed that people have voluntarily overspent on something then feel stupid and so get angry and its actually the driver of their upsets – you brought up the “I spent $100 on this expac” not me (again just so everyone is clear you spent $50 on the expac and then a further unnecessary $50 on other stuff – ofc its up to you if you think that $50 was too much but you did seem to be thinking you spent $100 not too long ago).

Coulter.2315:

but you did seem to be thinking you spent $100 not too long ago).

what? I did spend $100. I gave Anet $100, regardless of the price of the expac. I don’t know why you can’t understand that. The value of the expac has nothing to do with anything….its just dumb that the topic is being derailed by this.

Back to topic please.

Skittles.7830:

Coulter.2315:

but you did seem to be thinking you spent $100 not too long ago).

what? I did spend $100. I gave Anet $100, regardless of the price of the expac. I don’t know why you can’t understand that. The value of the expac has nothing to do with anything….its just dumb that the topic is being derailed by this.

Back to topic please.

Yes but you didn’t give them $100 for the expac, that only cost $50. Again you brought it up – several times with caps (seriously you overspending seems to be a big part of your problem – I think you’re angry with yourself really).

Since you want back on topic have you tried helping your friends get better?

There is really no point. They don’t want to put the effort into learning the raids and I don’t want to do 3 swamps for a daily. I’d rather have an instanced thing I could do with them that we all enjoy. Dungeons filled that roll for 3 years and had so much potential.

Skittles.7830:

There is really no point. They don’t want to put the effort into learning the raids and I don’t want to do 3 swamps for a daily. I’d rather have an instanced thing I could do with them that we all enjoy. Dungeons filled that roll for 3 years and had so much potential.

Well maybe setting a goal of building them up through fractals – they are pretty rewarding now – make it a group effort to progress up through the levels (don’t mention your level thatt lets them skip ahead).

IndigoSundown.5419:

Harper.4173:

Xillllix.3485:

Chameleon Dude.1564:

Are you me?

Seriously though, this is exactly how I feel about the content right now. Without insane RNG, full-time grinding or playing some of the worst-designed raids I’ve seen (in a game that wasn’t supposed to be about raids -.-) – I can’t make even the slightest bit of progress towards any goal. This, combined with the horrible connection I’ve had to the game recently (everything else runs fine, including demanding online games), is really sapping my will to play. I want to play this game, I want to have fun… but non-existent drops, insane gold-gates and content that rewards copying a build instead of good play… this is the opposite of GW2.

But hey, we got raids now, so the 90% of the playerbase who are raiders are happy. ^^

lol No but many feel the same way. Anet has been moving away from their manifesto ever since they removed SAB from the game and made grindy content with the new maps instead of adventure-based instanced content. I’m mentionning SAB because I think the moment they decided to drop SAB coincides with the decision to turn this game into a grindfest.

How are you claiming these things? How long have you been with the game?

Anet has moved away from the manifesto ever since they introduced ascended gear 2 months or so after release. How is it you’re bringing up the manifesto now since we’re all aware that 1 year into the game’s development the manifesto was a distant memory and not relevant.

They shifted the attention of dungeon consumers to FotM and raids. To get the most out of FotM, you need Fractal Masteries. Both Masteries and raids require purchase of HoT. It’s not hard to imagine that those facts played some part in the decision-making.

I agree – but to claim Anet is just now moving away from the manifesto – or did so for the first time when they dropped SAB is absurd – considering how early into the game’s life cycle the manifesto was considered irrelevant and not paid any attention to.

Skittles.7830:

There is really no point. They don’t want to put the effort into learning the raids and I don’t want to do 3 swamps for a daily. I’d rather have an instanced thing I could do with them that we all enjoy. Dungeons filled that roll for 3 years and had so much potential.

They don’t want to raid? Don’t raid.

Why do 3 swamps if you don’t want to? All the other fractals are also available.

All I see is people that refuse to adapt to change. Sure dungeons are bad rewards now and everyone is yearning for money, but if that’s such a problem you should really just put a halt and play another game.

All I see is one guy that wants to raid while a lot of friends of him don´t want to raid but he want them to stay in GW2 and asks Anet for content to reach his goal. Pretty sure Anet agrees more with me than you, at least I hope that.^^

Harper.4173:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Harper.4173:

Xillllix.3485:

Chameleon Dude.1564:

Are you me?

Seriously though, this is exactly how I feel about the content right now. Without insane RNG, full-time grinding or playing some of the worst-designed raids I’ve seen (in a game that wasn’t supposed to be about raids -.-) – I can’t make even the slightest bit of progress towards any goal. This, combined with the horrible connection I’ve had to the game recently (everything else runs fine, including demanding online games), is really sapping my will to play. I want to play this game, I want to have fun… but non-existent drops, insane gold-gates and content that rewards copying a build instead of good play… this is the opposite of GW2.

But hey, we got raids now, so the 90% of the playerbase who are raiders are happy. ^^

lol No but many feel the same way. Anet has been moving away from their manifesto ever since they removed SAB from the game and made grindy content with the new maps instead of adventure-based instanced content. I’m mentionning SAB because I think the moment they decided to drop SAB coincides with the decision to turn this game into a grindfest.

How are you claiming these things? How long have you been with the game?

Anet has moved away from the manifesto ever since they introduced ascended gear 2 months or so after release. How is it you’re bringing up the manifesto now since we’re all aware that 1 year into the game’s development the manifesto was a distant memory and not relevant.

They shifted the attention of dungeon consumers to FotM and raids. To get the most out of FotM, you need Fractal Masteries. Both Masteries and raids require purchase of HoT. It’s not hard to imagine that those facts played some part in the decision-making.

I agree – but to claim Anet is just now moving away from the manifesto – or did so for the first time when they dropped SAB is absurd – considering how early into the game’s life cycle the manifesto was considered irrelevant and not paid any attention to.

Ascended armor came in way after over a year in.

Living Story 1 was not a grind fest at all. It was completely story based and the summit of Anet creative potential was SAB.

What I’m saying is that when Anet decided to drop SAB for good coincide with Living Story 2 and the new direction they took with it, as well as the Chinese release. This is when the achievements rewards became grindy areas with content you had to repeat 100 of times. I don’t think it’s absurd at all.

There is a clear point 1-year in the Guild Wars 2 development where they trashed the manifesto for the Asian market, and SAB is a symbolic reminder of how the game was before then.

forum bug fix… ?

Xillllix.3485:

Harper.4173:

IndigoSundown.5419:

Harper.4173:

Xillllix.3485:

Chameleon Dude.1564:

Are you me?

Seriously though, this is exactly how I feel about the content right now. Without insane RNG, full-time grinding or playing some of the worst-designed raids I’ve seen (in a game that wasn’t supposed to be about raids -.-) – I can’t make even the slightest bit of progress towards any goal. This, combined with the horrible connection I’ve had to the game recently (everything else runs fine, including demanding online games), is really sapping my will to play. I want to play this game, I want to have fun… but non-existent drops, insane gold-gates and content that rewards copying a build instead of good play… this is the opposite of GW2.

But hey, we got raids now, so the 90% of the playerbase who are raiders are happy. ^^

lol No but many feel the same way. Anet has been moving away from their manifesto ever since they removed SAB from the game and made grindy content with the new maps instead of adventure-based instanced content. I’m mentionning SAB because I think the moment they decided to drop SAB coincides with the decision to turn this game into a grindfest.

How are you claiming these things? How long have you been with the game?

Anet has moved away from the manifesto ever since they introduced ascended gear 2 months or so after release. How is it you’re bringing up the manifesto now since we’re all aware that 1 year into the game’s development the manifesto was a distant memory and not relevant.

They shifted the attention of dungeon consumers to FotM and raids. To get the most out of FotM, you need Fractal Masteries. Both Masteries and raids require purchase of HoT. It’s not hard to imagine that those facts played some part in the decision-making.

I agree – but to claim Anet is just now moving away from the manifesto – or did so for the first time when they dropped SAB is absurd – considering how early into the game’s life cycle the manifesto was considered irrelevant and not paid any attention to.

Ascended armor came in way after over a year in.

Living Story 1 was not a grind fest at all. It was completely story based and the summit of Anet creative potential was SAB.

What I’m saying is that when Anet decided to drop SAB for good coincide with Living Story 2 and the new direction they took with it, as well as the Chinese release. This is when the achievements rewards became grindy areas with content you had to repeat 100 of times. I don’t think it’s absurd at all.

There is a clear point 1-year in the Guild Wars 2 development where they trashed the manifesto for the Asian market, and SAB is a symbolic reminder of how the game was before then.

Ascended armor is irrelevant – the Ascended TIER of equipment came in 2 months or so after release through the introduction of ascended rings – from that point on an entire tier of gear was added – despite “the manifesto”.
Yes not all of it was released at once – but that’s irrelevant – it was at that point that they went ahead and added a new tier of gear.

LS season 1 was not a grind fest – some of the events weren’t – but that doesn’t mean that Season 1 was awesome and a play at your leisure experience – each event had a meta and you only had 2 weeks to get it done – so you couldn’t really do everything related to that content unless you made a lot of time to do it.
Season 1 was also a bugfest.

SAB was fun – but it wasn’t the pinnacle of story telling considering how little it ties into the general story at all – it’s just a gimmick that was added -a fun one sure – but ultimately not what makes or breaks the game.

The game indeed took a huge hit when they diverted so many resources to their China release – I believe that’s one of the reasons they’ve always been behind on time and playing catch-up with what players want in terms of content.
I also believe that’s why this expansion was so short – they simply fell too far behind and can’t quite seem to catch up. That period of catering to China and other doodling about really didn’t do the game any good.

Neither did the ‘new player experience’ that came after the China release.