Guild Wars 2

What is your ideal fractal team composition for fractals up to scale 100? Personally, I’m only on like scale 65 and I rarely do fractals. I got a teef geared up with 162 AR for fracs but I just don’t do fractals much. What do veteran fractal goers with scale 100 think?

-Power damage?
-Condi damage?
-Tanky?
-Complete glass?

A few meta builds I can think of…
-Viper’s necro
-Viper’s ranger or druid
-Magi’s druid
-Viper’s engie
-Power Phalanx Strength warrior
-Power hammer longbow trap dragon hunter
-Boonshare mesmer
-Power invocation revenant
-Power staff daredevil
-Power staff tempest

IMO best team would be zerk druid, chrono, PS war and 2 tempests. You have everything – stealth, portals, gotl/frost spirit/spotter, EA/banners, quickness/alacrity and a lot of damage. Although this only works if you have decent players who can play their classes. If you pug, then roll necro, wait for everyone to die and solo the boss.

Isn’t condi damage superior to power for a ranger especially in fractals where toughness scales like crazy? Ranger deals the highest condi damage right now.

Zerk Power Druid swapping between NM and MS based on encounter, weapons too
Power PS
Chrono running appropriate encounter builds
2 Eles swapping weapons and builds based on encounter

Doctor.1905:

Isn’t condi damage superior to power for a ranger especially in fractals where toughness scales like crazy? Ranger deals the highest condi damage right now.

Not since September…

Toughness and Health Scaling Rebalance
Until now, as fractal scale has increased, creature toughness has also increased. Default toughness reaches as high as 2,384 at scale 100. This huge increase in toughness has made power builds much less viable than condition builds. Ideally, power builds and condition builds should be fairly equally viable at all scales.
At the opposite end of the spectrum, creatures in low-tier fractals have health and toughness that is disproportionately lower, such that parties can fly through these fractals without even having an opportunity to see many of the mechanics.
The purpose of this rebalance is to make condition and power builds viable and also increase the duration of low-tier encounters without making them any more difficult. Overall, low-tier fractals should progress at a slower, more reasonable pace, and high-tier fractals should progress a bit faster for parties of mixed composition.

Toughness scaling has been removed.
Default toughness has been slightly increased to 1,475.
Health has been slightly increased for all creatures to compensate for lost toughness.
The low end of health scaling has been increased for bosses to ensure that encounters do not progress too quickly at low tiers.
Fixed a bug in which veterans would have too much health for their archetype.

Doctor.1905:

Isn’t condi damage superior to power for a ranger especially in fractals where toughness scales like crazy? Ranger deals the highest condi damage right now.

That’s only true for condi base ranger, who has great personal DPS, but provides absolutely no party buffs and actually even relies on a druid to give him some of the buffs. As qT teaches you, in most scenarios party dmg buff >> personal dmg buff, after all meta is based on different classes sharing their unique buffs to maximize the damage.

Ever since they changed toughness scaling (btw. have you been living under a rock for the past couple of months?), I’d say power-based builds are better for coordinated groups who can burst down most bosses within seconds. That applies to everyone including druids, who can by the way bring extra utility like pulling mobs – which condis cannot.
Nevertheless most groups are NOT capable of doing this and encounters can drag on for minutes, so realistically (especially in pugs), condi is just as (if not more) viable as power.

If by ideal you mean dealing out the highest damage while staying alive I think of 2 possible outcomes:
Condition Team:
Burnzerker and 4 Viper Necros
Power Team:
PS Warrior, Magi Druid and 3 Staff Elementalists (maybe swap 1 Ele or Druid depending on Fractal for a Staff DD when stealth is needed or a Scepter DH when reflects are needed).

Amicable Pugs.4503:

Zerk Power Druid swapping between NM and MS based on encounter, weapons too
Power PS
Chrono running appropriate encounter builds
2 Eles swapping weapons and builds based on encounter

This except I would argue that condi ps is almost always better in practice than power. Also I would advocate replacing an ele with a hammer guard for certain fractals like mai where hammer let’s you control her movement so you rip stacks faster and ultimately get a faster kill.

NikeEU.7690:

Amicable Pugs.4503:

Zerk Power Druid swapping between NM and MS based on encounter, weapons too
Power PS
Chrono running appropriate encounter builds
2 Eles swapping weapons and builds based on encounter

This except I would argue that condi ps is almost always better in practice than power. Also I would advocate replacing an ele with a hammer guard for certain fractals like mai where hammer let’s you control her movement so you rip stacks faster and ultimately get a faster kill.

I have zero clue abt guardian or their new spec since I left mine in the scrapyard like years ago, but I personally would prefer playing rev even over war in some encounters since they are basically useless. I mean let’s think abt it, only reason ppl complaining rev got nerfed was in relation to chronos.. and with raids it’s a completely diff story since you’re min-maxing for dps. With high lvl fractals u want to emphasize dps yes but not go crazy with it and forget abt everything else, that will generally be harder to pull off.

So with today’s t4 dailies, another unpredictable thing I observed but was unable to help out with war and our current comp, yes we had two eles and I’m drawing a blank on the rest but im certain they were not heavy classes. We got urban fractal out of way easy, only wiped for 1st time when we were at last boss on uncategorized. Again, generally not used to wiping there but I realised the problem. First time I was running dual banners, they all died early. 2nd time I switched to a survival utility (endure pain in this case), but this time around it was better and we almost got kill (one golem left). However realising my grp simply too squishy, I decide to swap to rev. I feel like rev is so op in these cases I mention later. Any way, only one person in group even downed and tho it took a bit slower we got it done with no deaths, again one simple class swap made this difference.

I simply think rev is better for some cases if replacing an ele or even if substituting for class like war, simply bc they bring offensive boons that offset banner loss (things like perma fury and ~half might), as well as useful defensive boons like perma prot and regen with boon duration buffs. That is not to mention the fact that rev can maintain between 60-80% dmg reduction the whole time, as well as having much better condi cleanse. The runs just go so much smoother for a select few fractals as mentioned below.

For the few fractals I would notice like significant difference with rev are cliffside, mai train, and chaos fractals, and maybe thaumanova end boss at times. Cliffside for obvious reasons, and mai trin and chaos mainly cos of the last boss.. I would show a vid if I could but the difference is really telling here. The facetanking capabilities with 80% dmg reduction as well as additional condi reduction is just insane. I tried rev out on chaos and the difference was really noticeable.. overall much better heals, able to literally stand in one spot and facetank boss without moving at all, and oh yeah u can literally let urself get pulled past 50% and actually get healed to full. It’s just a vast improvement over war for these encounters alone since the boons u receive get applied to ur allies too, which means they can sustain dps longer since they don’t get downed as often.

“Ideal” depends on your goal. For consistency and ease of use we typically do something like Druid/Condi war or rev/Necro/Necro/other condi class (engi is decent for blinds) and just destroy everything with epidemic. If you want clearspeed you probably take something like Druid/PS War/Ele/Ele/Chrono or other DPS like hammer guard or thief for fast cc.

Doctor.1905:

What is your ideal fractal team composition for fractals up to scale 100? Personally, I’m only on like scale 65 and I rarely do fractals. I got a teef geared up with 162 AR for fracs but I just don’t do fractals much. What do veteran fractal goers with scale 100 think?

Personally? I love power engi, condi engi, ele, chrono and warrior. Thinking about it, me and friends have ended up like this for along time now. ( of course chrono was clssic mesmer before the expansion )

ideal for pugging? 4 necro 1 druid.

ideal for speed clearing with your static group? 1 chrono 1 ps 1 druid and 2 of whatever is the months highest dps.

NikeEU.7690:

Amicable Pugs.4503:

Zerk Power Druid swapping between NM and MS based on encounter, weapons too
Power PS
Chrono running appropriate encounter builds
2 Eles swapping weapons and builds based on encounter

This except I would argue that condi ps is almost always better in practice than power. Also I would advocate replacing an ele with a hammer guard for certain fractals like mai where hammer let’s you control her movement so you rip stacks faster and ultimately get a faster kill.

Not always but in most fractals yes, as long as druid is NM with warhorn.
Imo guard brings nothing. Mai break bar lines up most of time with Blue field so stacks aren’t an issue.
Druid can perma prot for where it’s needed (like Chaos endboss or uncat champs etc).
Double ele is just way too strong damage wise if played right.

your post earlier just screamed of being unexperienced.
i mean, yeah, you can talk about how stuff gets easier running utilities so you do not die (endure pain) or playing a braindead class (activate all boons and then just autohit) with build in sustain.

if any group only wants smooth and fast runs, there are only a few things to consider.
1. stealth where you can or let the mesmer focuspull enemies together.
2. have blinds up whenever you can on trashmobs.
3. chrono should know when to run reflects, where to lay down portals or double portals and also when to pop disortion at any given boss. the block well is also a pretty good thing to sustain any fight so the dps classes can just smash braindead on the boss.
4. have a good boonuptime of fury, might, quickness…protection if needed.
5. break those kittening blue bars when they come up and not 100 hours later. (thats why i sometimes choose to play engi, ezpz solo breaking any boss.)

whoever takes utilitie which is completly useless to the group is a ego and just hinders the group to perform on a better level.
endure pain is useless. taking a revenant if you have all boons already just for the cc is useless.

i mean, you probably can take a revenant as main might upkeep if you hame some other people blasting might instead of having a ps warrior. sure. if the group does it at a good level…why not. you loose a bigger chunk because of banners and empower allies, but if you want to play revenant in a group wich accepts to play on a not optimal level, go ahead if thats your favorite class.
but never ever try to get a rev in for the loss of a tempest if you care about boons and you got already a druid ps and chrono. thats just plain stupid. a tempest / engi adds way more to a partysetup like that, because blinds & dmg.

ideal for pugging? 4 necro 1 druid.

i do not think so at all. i pugged in groups like this, before and after the nerf. it still took ages to kill bosses and the time was always way slower then with a good setup.

before hot when fractals did only go up to 50, i pugged much…really much. the difference in skill in these groups was way higher if you compare it to right now.
right now those necro only groups are just kitten tier level. where is the problem taking in a warr, chrono and a druid and then 2 necros. it is just far better then that other kitten.
if someone can’t play engi, because of rotation, can’t play tempest or thief because too squishy, sure, go ahead, braindead necro 1111 it is.
but why on earth make such a kitten teamcomp out of it. those players could play kitten tier level with their rotations and still would be better off with a proper setup and their respective meta build, just because boons + utilitie will carry them…and not hurr durr i have 28k life because necro and we also have a magis druid and we need 30 – 50 mins to do a normal fotm daily where everyone else is done in 15 to 20 min.

Listen, I only pug daily t4 fractals and it takes like 30-40 min same as every1 else.. I suggest one small change to my ideal team comp (like taking rev over war) and everyone just loses it. It’s quite hilarious actually

Here’s fact: I don’t have trouble playing war in t4s. In fact I prefer war for fights like bloomhunger so I can melee burst him. I can do any fractal without dying as war, long as good team that doesn’t crumple like paper. But if say they do.. well what can I do as warrior? I don’t run endure pain all the time anyway. PS I had full banners and dps utilities until my group wiped at uncategorized last boss.

What to do as warrior there? Clearly grp is as flimsy as paper, and I can’t hold it up. So I swap to endure pain. Doing better, but still not good enough. I swap to rev, ez pz with perma prot and dps boons. Tell me what abt that screams inexperienced? We got 2 eles that flop over right at start of fight, I can’t tell them to stop dying so fast either. So I improvise

Chaos end boss as ps warrior with meta build is like insane mode. If you disagree u are clearly inexperienced. Even taking defiant stance for heal, u have to sacrifice regen that classes like rev have. You take wh for condi cleanse. I also take endure pain and stability, no banners here. This means I’m being forced to take defensive and selfish utilities to survive, which I technically can do.

Again, my point here is which is more beneficial to my pt. With rev I can easily maintain 60-80% dmg reduction at all time, plus condi reduction and two sources of cleanse. Yeah I’m not invincible, but I have much better chance than as war.

I also buff group more. Again, I’m not stupid enough to take rev when we alrdy got most of boons covered, or we have another rev. I’m talking about which is more sensible choice. Warrior with no banners and low heal unable to maintain might bc of difficulty melee, or swap to rev for more then 10 might stacks, perma fury, AP, prot and regen for every1.. plus can tank for a lot longer, or at least distract boss for much longer which let condi focus on deal dmg.

Which is better option here? Think abt it before respond pls

Listen, I only pug daily t4 fractals and it takes like 30-40 min same as every1 else.. I suggest one small change to my ideal team comp (like taking rev over war) and everyone just loses it. It’s quite hilarious actually

everyday it takes 15 – 20 mins, depending on the fractals. but even if u get the longest fracs it only takes 20 mins if you and your group knows what to do.
30 – 40 mins is nearly double the time, i could run 2 dailys in the timeframe.
i am also not loosing my mind over that desicion and if your group is fine with swapping out a warr for a rev, idc. but u earlier mentioned tempest and thats something i would never do if you got already a warrior….and i think i made that clear with what i wrote.

regarding chaos fractal:

you are forced to do that because either you or your team straight up sux.
i know it is a bit harder to run power ps there, but its not impossible. also u could run the condi build, wich makes it a bit easier.

but i am well aware of the problems that groups can’t melee the endboss in chaos.
just to mentiona few problems:
- the group is not able to break the autohit chain so the boss does not daze, thats usually done by backpaddeling from the guy who has aggro, the rest of the group can stay behind. or just the whole group does it the whole time. (his autoattack chain will get rupted if the one who has aggro goes back all times since he has no target then and his chain will start from new, even if other teammembers are hit, this guy just needs to go back to melee asap. aggro changes to the furthest guy away in case one of the teammembers goes over 600 range away)
- all people start ranging and running arround headless, therefore a big dps loss since no one gets any boons, the druid healing is more or less only good if you ball and ranging does way less dps usually
- chrono is not capable of taking the blocking well and disort quite a few hits
- no reflect or killing of the spawns, wich can get a problem
- not breaking the bar when it is needed
- not being able to dish out so much dmg, that the boss dies before the harder patterns start to spawn or is at least low health at that point. the first ones can be outkited pretty easy if you do it right.

so, this is my response. pretty much how i do it with my group. we have zero problems in killing the chaos guy in melee in a pretty fast time before kittens start to go down.

the thing is, most people can’t think and are to afraid of taking risks or trying out “new” things…or lets say things other groups do already pretty successful.

its like arah p4, 2nd boss. even today there are so many people out there who still go fullranged during the whole fight instead of going to that one spot where u won’t get hit by those balls and then just dodge / block his knocking attack.

NikeEU.7690:

Amicable Pugs.4503:

Zerk Power Druid swapping between NM and MS based on encounter, weapons too
Power PS
Chrono running appropriate encounter builds
2 Eles swapping weapons and builds based on encounter

This except I would argue that condi ps is almost always better in practice than power. Also I would advocate replacing an ele with a hammer guard for certain fractals like mai where hammer let’s you control her movement so you rip stacks faster and ultimately get a faster kill.

+ this

But the way we play is very casual :p nothing too high expectation.. we run a druid, PS, xx,xx
I prefer a good chrono, druid , PS + 2 condi or 2power.

My ideal fractal team is 5 experienced players with fractal buffs..

For me its

Healing ele- shouts and such (power, vitatility healing -stats)
Condi ranger- shortbow with like axe-torch with some heals ( condi – vitality- healing -)
Rev with glint ( zerk gear)
PS warrior (zerk gear)

5th is optional but DPS thief, DPS DH, condi Necro, DPS mesmer, any will do.

Simply put i like being in fractals where people dont die and you can go full ham on something without worrying about anything yet the DPS is good enough that the frac goes by quickly.

Dinosaurs.8674:

“Ideal” depends on your goal. For consistency and ease of use we typically do something like Druid/Condi war or rev/Necro/Necro/other condi class (engi is decent for blinds) and just destroy everything with epidemic. If you want clearspeed you probably take something like Druid/PS War/Ele/Ele/Chrono or other DPS like hammer guard or thief for fast cc.

+1

I see mixed opinions here, which seem to come from various perceptions of “optimal” definition.

OP, I think you should define if you are looking for composition for a fast min-maxed clear with an experienced, competitive group, or for a more reliable one for safe clears.
(the quote above pretty much sums up both options in my opinion, but if you are looking for safety, there’s a bit more “room” to play with)

nagr you are going way off topic with that, we are not here to read PuGging stories.

chrono, druid (not that stupid lb druid), usually a ps +2.
Truth is if the chrono and druid are strong players the rest doesnt even really matter, those 2 can carry through through everything.

Today our casual t4 took us 26mins clearing aquatic, snowbind, n chaos. We had me as druid, a chrono a PS an ele and a necro. we pugged the ele n he said he did chaos for the first time. And we don’t use food or tonic

NumenorLord.6539:

If by ideal you mean dealing out the highest damage while staying alive I think of 2 possible outcomes:
Condition Team:
Burnzerker and 4 Viper Necros

Is this a joke?

skarpak.8594:

Listen, I only pug daily t4 fractals and it takes like 30-40 min same as every1 else.. I suggest one small change to my ideal team comp (like taking rev over war) and everyone just loses it. It’s quite hilarious actually

everyday it takes 15 – 20 mins, depending on the fractals. but even if u get the longest fracs it only takes 20 mins if you and your group knows what to do.
30 – 40 mins is nearly double the time, i could run 2 dailys in the timeframe.

You should have read what he actually wrote. Let me emphasise it: “I only pug daily t4 fractals”. With pugs, you simply don’t run full T4 in 15-20 mins unless there’s a top secret reservoir of highly competent pugs somewhere out there. In pugs, I’m usually happy when everyone has reaction times slightly faster than those of a brick (that’s not a given).

Well, half fractals or half pugs play it range, so …
But I played good compo pugs theses weeks :
1 chrono
1 druid
1 guard
and DPS like ele, an aware guard or else. Hard CC, cood sustain/heal, some buffs.

I try the “effective compo” 4 necros 1 druid, it’s barely efficient when there are some mobs, that’s worst since the patch, and that’s all. Everything could be better.

I almost always pug T4. I enjoy adapting to each party. IME the most important thing is that party members can play their class competently and know the mechanics well. I mean if you die every time from Frizz’s electric walls it doesn’t matter one bit what class you are playing. I usually play a pretty selfish build (e.g., using endure pain) until I know I can count on my party. That being said…

I’m always happy to see warr and necro. Usually happy to see ele, guard, or ranger. I’m usually least happy to see thief or mesmer, simply because they are more difficult to play well, and so pugs are more often not very competent. I also see a huge range of competency in pugging engis, but most are fine. So if you bring a thief, don’t go down all the time and help out with blinds at appropriate times.

The ideal comp is also determined by the fractal. For example, uncat goes best when you have some reflects from mesmer or guard, and an ele, or pet, or illusions to block Old Tom projectiles. Aquatic goes best with necros so they can pull condis, and also classes that can cleave the little jellies, instead of single target classes. Its fun to blind tentacles at Jade Maw with thief. Reflects can also be critical for the Volcanic fractal boss. Blinds are the best way to deal with the vet earth eles and mob outside the tunnel in molten furnace, usually with ele sandstorm. IME massive healing from druids is not necessary if the team is reasonably competent.

I usually run mesmer or ele, and get my warr if things go south.