Guild Wars 2

Krosan.2890:

I wonder if the GW2 community is possibly the most whiny mmorpg community to date.

Guild Wars always has had a whining problem. Anet even poked fun at that back in GW1 by adding a skill, and I kid you not, vocal minority.

I agree I loved dungeons in wow and tor. Fun through and through. I can’t stand dungeons in GW2 even when things are going well its just not fun.

I think most of the people that defend GW2’s broken dungeon system run in guild groups almost if not exclusively.

Anders.6425:

I agree I loved dungeons in wow and tor. Fun through and through. I can’t stand dungeons in GW2 even when things are going well its just not fun.

I think most of the people that defend GW2’s broken dungeon system run in guild groups almost if not exclusively.

I defend GW 2 dungeons and I 90% with pugs. I do have a guild group and things are more fun, if only because we are all on voice chat and since my guild is made-up of people who are friends RL it’s a totally different atmosphere, and generally go more smoothly with the guild groups. But I have done most of my explorable with PuGs and even a few story modes on main and alts.

It’s not PuGs or guild groups that make the difference. I think what the real issue (apart from dungeon bugs – which are irritating) is that people haven’t figured out their roles in dungeons. I don’t mean their class roles but what they want to do as players. Me? I have decided my goal in life in dungeons is to set-off as many combos as possible! So I try to provide finishers when I see someone put down a combo field (fire and ethreal combo fields are my favourites as a guardian). I also try to carry skills that let me combo two of my own skills, that way I can still set-off a ton of combos even if the PuG goes in without carrying any combo fields. Does it make a difference? I think it does and also gives me a feeling of being connected to my fellow players because I am not just focused on myself but also watching to see what they do.

Dungeons are quite fun and i did the vast majority with PuGs. Sure dungeons have their fair share of problems (loot, bugs, some shady mechanics).

But the real problem is usually the group itself. Too many ppl run with “selfish” builds. To sum a few, 5-sginets warriors, guardians that use mediations just to heal themselves and fire-only eles. So yeah, if you have 5 such players in a group, things are gonna be a bit tougher.
Aside from red circles and some nearly unavoidable things, why not bring skills to prevent a player from being downed? Slows, imms, blinds etc etc.

So instead of running around with a permanent skill bar, how about switching out and trying different skills for different encounters? They are called utilites after all.

Not sure what dungeons you are having problems with to cause you to “graveyard” them… If your group is moderately coordinated (someone is leading and marks targets, people avoid big red circles on the ground) and has exotic armor (which costs like 10-15g even if you farm no mats) you should be having no problems with dungeons. After the initial non-story mode run I’ve found all the dungeons to be “fun” and “rewarding”.

I’m not sure what games you’re coming from, but in my previous MMOs it was not unheard of to go for one to six months without receiving an equipment upgrade drop from a dungeon/raid/group event. GW2 is a huge leap for me personally considering you get drops & gold from bosses, drops from splendid chests, AND gold/karma/exp/tokens at the end of the dungeon. Ignoring all that, people do the dungeons for the tokens for the most part anyway right? If you can run all 3 paths in one day you’re looking at getting a guaranteed piece of exotic armor (with one of three stat spreads) from a NPC in a day or two.

In the end, if you don’t find dungeons fun or rewarding, just don’t do them. There’s other ways to get exotic armor and you can always just transmute.

I disagree with everything you are saying. I am curious what games you have played in the past “decade”, because Everquest, DAoC, AC, WoW, AoC, Warhammer, etc.. all had more bugs, more grind, more repetitive worthless elite trash spawns, less reward, and less end game options than the dungeons in GW2.

As someone who has been playing since the MUD days, GW2 is definitely an evolutionary step in the right direction for MMO’s in both PvP and PvE.

most frustrating stuff regarding dungeons is teleport in starting place and you die in the end of dungeon xD thats 2 min of running to get to final boss, thats not funny its hilarious

No no OP, spotting small attack animations that deal massive damage amongst tons of obstructive particle effects is the pinnacle of dungeon design.

But wait, we have some red circles every now and then as well, PROGRESS!

GW2’s dungeons are hardly its strong point, in fact they’re amongst the worst dungeons created in modern time and I would recommend everyone looking for a good dungeon experience to try another game because they’ll most likely be disappointed with GW2.

I agree that the dungeons are not fun, but for other reasons.

There are 0, NO boss strategy. Not even DUNGEON strategy. It’s always either : rush the thing / get to a safe place to dps the boss.

The adds (or trash mobs, whatever you call them) are way too tanky and deal too much damage. Sure, you deleted the “holy trinity”, but you did not replace it with something durable.

About these boss strats. Catacombs tried to install one with the siblings, but they were so much wipe-tastic it wasn’t fun. After this dungeon, I can’t recall any kind of boss strategy. Honor of the Waves is kill the trash, kill the boss (or rush the stairs, get the boss to bug for the infinitly-respawning-adds boss). Twilight Arbor almost made me think there was a strategy when I saw the big boss. But no. No running around trying to avoid his smashes, no boss phases… I think that’s the main problem. No boss phases. Once you start dpsing the boss, you don’t stop spamming buttons untill he’s dead. It’s hugely boring. We badly need phases.

Having played Dungeon & Dragons Online, Lord of the Rings Online & Star wars Online, where ALL the dungeons where about was BOSS STRATEGY, it’s a bit deception. I totally gave up at level 80. Leveling was extremely fun, don’t get me wrong, but endgame is inexistant. There is this legendary grind to do, and that’s it.

Don’t get me on WvW. It’s great, sure. But what respectful MMO classifies his PvP as his only endgame ?

These were my 2cents.

Albane.8367:

I disagree with everything you are saying. I am curious what games you have played in the past “decade”, because Everquest, DAoC, AC, WoW, AoC, Warhammer, etc.. all had more bugs, more grind, more repetitive worthless elite trash spawns, less reward, and less end game options than the dungeons in GW2.

As someone who has been playing since the MUD days, GW2 is definitely an evolutionary step in the right direction for MMO’s in both PvP and PvE.

You cannot be serious with this comment. I have been around as well WAY before EQ was thought of and GW2 is without a doubt the least rewarding dungeon loot game.

Not only the actual junk that drops in the dungeon/chests is for the most part absolutely useless except for breaking down for crafting materials (if you even craft to care or you sell them on TP). However this is a complete game design problem as simply once you hit the level 80 exotic cap on items there is nowhere else to go. Not everyone cares to look pretty in games or I guess play endlessly to do so.

So what really are they going to change about the loot in dungeons with the upcoming patch? more greens so you can get a constant 1silver 24 copper selling or chances of more exotic drops out of chests to make them as worthless as the prior tier? Because really anyone playing the game since launch or really a month into the game does not care nor need any of that stuff unless they want a specific look.

The other reward or lack there of is the absolute boredom in the dungeons. There is really zero reason to do dungeons after you have run them a few times or gotten the measly little tokens to look how you want via the getting old fast use tokens to get your gear at end game. Done.

Whatever happened to getting upgrades via looting mobs / rare drops etc? Oh I know the people complained to death because things aren’t easy enough for them and we should all be able to be the same without any work.

For a game that is also geared to be about Dragons sure as hell is missing a dungeon full of them. Why do we have to fight all dragons in this game in a static place in a zone with 100 other people? It’s a joke.

Make a dungeon like Everquest Veeshan where the entire dungeon is a Dragon crawl and they were actually fun fights and strategies you had to figure out or you would not win. The dragons in this game have zero strategy and you always win.

The only exception to the always win rule in GW2 is maybe Arah Explore and really that is even stretching it.

There is NO risk anywhere in this game.

A good example of dungeon loot options would be rift for example where gear dropped in each difficulty of the zone and you were constantly upgrading your stats on your character and always a need or want to get to the higher difficulty of dungeon / raid because you could actually improve your toon.

This does not exist in this game and may never because the entire game is built around you having level 80 exotic stats in regards to the level mentor etc.

Open your eyes the dungeons do suck and rewards are even worse.

But if you like constantly being told what to do in every single encounter (dodge the red circles) then that explains a lot.

Until now i did only the Arah Dungeon. It takes about 2 hours and after Zhaitan died i received an Orrian Reward Helm as reward… Why? I can’t even sell it.. What do I should do with it? About the other drops, their value didn’t paid the armor reparation cost. I die so many times that i can’t count.. It can seem legit in a dungeon, but an ordinary mob that it me for more than 10k… mah… Sometime Bosses hits me for 20k or more (I’ve full exotic armor)…
I did this dungeon cause i needed It for the story quest but I don’t think i’ll do another one so soon… Very waste of time..

P.S.: I’ve Superior Sigil of Perception on my weapon (it’s like bloodlust one) but It has rarely activated…

AleK.2709:

Until now i did only the Arah Dungeon. It takes about 2 hours and after Zhaitan died i received an Orrian Reward Helm as reward… Why? I can’t even sell it.. What do I should do with it? About the other drops, their value didn’t paid the armor reparation cost. I die so many times that i can’t count.. It can seem legit in a dungeon, but an ordinary mob that it me for more than 10k… mah… Sometime Bosses hits me for 20k or more (I’ve full exotic armor)…
I did this dungeon cause i needed It for the story quest but I don’t think i’ll do another one so soon… Very waste of time..

P.S.: I’ve Superior Sigil of Perception on my weapon (it’s like bloodlust one) but It has rarely activated…

You are correct, that is the problem with the game there are many many examples of encounters where it doesn’t matter how good you are or well I would say how good your gear is but really everyone has 80 exotic and the stats are the same just move them how you want, you will die and you will repair no matter what because you simply cannot dodge or evade enough times for the mobs to stay clear of hitting you if you want to actually do damage to them……. but you sure as hell will get dizzy from all the kiting you have to do.

It is next to impossible to avoid grave-yard zerging content.

I find it funny that self-professed raiders fail so bad at content that isn’t even that hard.

Spoiler: It is not actually impossible. Casual players like me manage this “impossible” feat every day we do dungeons.

Oh, and the “tank” thing? That’s just awful. The lack of tanks is one of the best things this game offers. Not every game needs nobrain-encounters like you are used to. That mobs follow a tank while ignoring healers is completely stupid, and I am glad more and more games are forgoing this outdated, cheap and boring mechanic. Threat is literally the worst mechanic ever concieved in a MMO.

Finally, on rewards, it’s as it should be.All that could be changed is maybe more gold or possible legendary indrigents. Dungeons should NEVER give better stats than you can craft yourself. This is GW2, not your usual statgrind game. For that, Blizzards titles are a MUCH better choice.

I die so many times that i can’t count..

In…Arah story?

-how did it take you more than an hour? We did it in an hour with inexperienced people in a pug
-how did you die that often? I died 3 times in total, including falling through the airship once.

A good example of dungeon loot options would be rift for example where gear dropped in each difficulty of the zone and you were constantly upgrading your stats on your character and always a need or want to get to the higher difficulty of dungeon / raid because you could actually improve your toon.

That would be a bad thing to happen. Go play Blizzard or Diablo for that.
What you want is not a good example, it’s a bad example. A major selling point of GW2 is not having that nonsense, after all.

. No boss phases

You have not visited Arah, I take it. That has phases.

Too hard for you, probably. I mean, we casuals manage to pug it, but raiders can’t do it XD

Zefiris.8297:

It is next to impossible to avoid grave-yard zerging content.

I find it funny that self-professed raiders fail so bad at content that isn’t even that hard.

Spoiler: It is not actually impossible. Casual players like me manage this “impossible” feat every day we do dungeons.

Oh, and the “tank” thing? That’s just awful. The lack of tanks is one of the best things this game offers. Not every game needs nobrain-encounters like you are used to. That mobs follow a tank while ignoring healers is completely stupid, and I am glad more and more games are forgoing this outdated, cheap and boring mechanic. Threat is literally the worst mechanic ever concieved in a MMO.

Finally, on rewards, it’s as it should be.All that could be changed is maybe more gold or possible legendary indrigents. Dungeons should NEVER give better stats than you can craft yourself. This is GW2, not your usual statgrind game. For that, Blizzards titles are a MUCH better choice.

I die so many times that i can’t count..

In…Arah story?

-how did it take you more than an hour? We did it in an hour with inexperienced people in a pug
-how did you die that often? I died 3 times in total, including falling through the airship once.

A good example of dungeon loot options would be rift for example where gear dropped in each difficulty of the zone and you were constantly upgrading your stats on your character and always a need or want to get to the higher difficulty of dungeon / raid because you could actually improve your toon.

That would be a bad thing to happen. Go play Blizzard or Diablo for that.
What you want is not a good example, it’s a bad example. A major selling point of GW2 is not having that nonsense, after all.

. No boss phases

You have not visited Arah, I take it. That has phases.

Too hard for you, probably. I mean, we casuals manage to pug it, but raiders can’t do it XD

That’s all a matter of opinion. A dragon epic boss SHOULD give better item than you can make in many people’s views. However you also should not be able to kill that dragon while afk on auto attack.

You are referring to virtually one encounter in Arah that has a phase. Anyone who refers to everything as a blizzard product has no clue. Many many games do the gear tiers very well. Blizzard is not one of them.

It may be a selling point to you that once you get to level 80 and get your “crafted” gear that the game is over for you but if you want a healthy base you NEED to have the PVE content much better than this.

I will give you the Blizzard as you used scenario and the 10million people user base it still holds today and no I do not play WoW and nor did I past the original level 60.

I personally prefer much better PVE content in games and visually pleasing games.

I will begin by stating that I am a PVE centered player, I don’t mind PVP but it does not really interest me. So the most enjoyment I derive from the game at lvl 80 is running dungeons with my friends and getting the loots. Exploring is also fun but once you’ve seen everything, you’ve seen everything.

The problem I have run into is that I simply can’t enjoy the part of the game I am interested in. I have tried running dungeons on my server that are not the lvl 80 favorites which everyone runs every day to make money, get gear and etc. The result was frustration at not finding players to fill out my party and the overwhelming difficulty of the paths. Even in the staple dungeons like Arah, HotW and CoF people only run certain paths because the others are too much of a “pain” to bother with. The reasoning behind that is simple, the rewards are not worth the effort. I don’t think that should be the case for any content in this game, especially one that makes up such a large part of the endgame. I am hoping that attention will be paid to this in the near future so that people don’t have to be limited to a select few places they can play.

From my experience the frustration with the paths no one does comes from poor balancing in terms of the mobs that tend to inhabit them. There are usually too many mobs with too much hp or a few mobs that tend to floor you in a few hits no matter how well geared you are and no, dodging doesn’t help when you’re in a blob of enemies that CC you. I don’t think many people enjoy that kind of experience. There is a large difference between it being a challenge to finish an area and having to zerg it because no matter what you do leaves you with several party wipes. There are many areas where if you aggro any of the mobs in the room, the blob of enemies that will move toward you will simply steam roll your party on the spot. It really gets to me that a lot of the mobs in the dungeons that are supposed to be cannon fodder tend to be stronger than the bosses you end up facing at the end.

Outline of the current issues:
- Mob density too high in certain areas
- Non-boss mobs stronger than boss mobs
- The absolute need to repeatedly party wipe to finish an area (CoF Magg for all of you pros that keep chiming in that you never had to partywipe repeatedly)
- Time investment to finish the “hard” paths 1hr+ as opposed to easier paths 15-30min

People still graveyard zerg? I haven’t done that in a legitimate PuG (people are actually the minimum level for the dungeon) since the first couple of weeks after launch, unless it’s that strat in CoF path 2 because most people are too lazy to do it the ‘hard’ way with no deaths, even though it’s probably easier and faster to do it that way if done correctly.

So hobocop, how do you run? Tell us a little. I only see people who complain actually list things, while others simply say its not problem for them without anything as to why that is.

I change up my weapons, utilities and major traits constantly. If I die, on the way back I think about what was problematic on my previous attempt then take steps to mitigate that. Nothing in my toolbox is exempt from being switched in for a fight or two even if I don’t have the best gear or trait support for it. Yes, that means as a Warrior, I carry at least one of each of my weapons, two if they can be dual-wielded.

Trial and error? Sure, but that’s the way it’s been even in other MMOs when learning new content until there’s a hundred videos up on Youtube about it.

Hobocop.1508:

People still graveyard zerg? I haven’t done that in a legitimate PuG (people are actually the minimum level for the dungeon) since the first couple of weeks after launch, unless it’s that strat in CoF path 2 because most people are too lazy to do it the ‘hard’ way with no deaths, even though it’s probably easier and faster to do it that way if done correctly.

This is BS…. you know as does everyone else know who has played this that you have ran back to a fight in a dungeon and not just when you first started.

Regardless of how many different ways you change your stats / builds weapons etc. It simply will happen

I wish there was a dungeon where every encounter would be an overkill (similar to CoF 2 gate defend).
I don’t see any point in fights which are trivial.

Akacia.1583:

Hobocop.1508:

People still graveyard zerg? I haven’t done that in a legitimate PuG (people are actually the minimum level for the dungeon) since the first couple of weeks after launch, unless it’s that strat in CoF path 2 because most people are too lazy to do it the ‘hard’ way with no deaths, even though it’s probably easier and faster to do it that way if done correctly.

This is BS…. you know as does everyone else know who has played this that you have ran back to a fight in a dungeon and not just when you first started.

Sure I did…when I was learning the fight and didn’t know what I was doing just yet. Notice the part ‘first couple of weeks after launch’.

Hobocop.1508:

Akacia.1583:

Hobocop.1508:

People still graveyard zerg? I haven’t done that in a legitimate PuG (people are actually the minimum level for the dungeon) since the first couple of weeks after launch, unless it’s that strat in CoF path 2 because most people are too lazy to do it the ‘hard’ way with no deaths, even though it’s probably easier and faster to do it that way if done correctly.

This is BS…. you know as does everyone else know who has played this that you have ran back to a fight in a dungeon and not just when you first started.

Sure I did…when I was learning the fight and didn’t know what I was doing just yet. Notice the part ‘first couple of weeks after launch’.

It still happens now as well. Believe me you do die in Arah and not just once and you do run back to the fight.

Sure there is a big difference from say the 15 times you may have used to die compared to the handful of times you do now and or you get revived in down state.

Hobocop.1508:

I change up my weapons, utilities and major traits constantly. If I die, on the way back I think about what was problematic on my previous attempt then take steps to mitigate that. Nothing in my toolbox is exempt from being switched in for a fight or two even if I don’t have the best gear or trait support for it. Yes, that means as a Warrior, I carry at least one of each of my weapons, two if they can be dual-wielded.

Trial and error? Sure, but that’s the way it’s been even in other MMOs when learning new content until there’s a hundred videos up on Youtube about it.

I have run dungeons with my friends before they decided it was a waste of time. We did what you describe as we were communicating over voice. We changed our approach to fit the situation. We are far from terrible players yet it took us too much time and effort to finish the “difficult” paths, in some instances we just gave up and left the instance. My friends are not casual players, and I don’t know where you keep finding these amazing random people that everyone uses in their examples to finish all the paths like they’re not at all challenging.

From common experience, when I enter parties with people who obviously don’t know the instance I expect to die a lot and so far my expectations have been lived up to. Besides finding a group at all for the dungeons that are below lvl 80, have you tried doing that? You probably made one appear at the snap of your fingers. I don’t have such powers and waiting hours for people to appear is not my thing when I expect to get curb stomped by trash mobs in the dungeon afterward.

Overall the people like you who enter this discussion to shoot down those who are having issues with the system tend to wave their hands about and spout a general “I dunno its easy! (insert I imply your all noobs)” without anything to back it up. You can’t really gauge the competence of people playing the game easily while those complaining about the system tend to have concrete examples of why its prohibitive in their enjoyment of the content.

No, not really. Then again, I don’t really know what the criteria of graveyard zerging is beyond running back from the waypoint after dying to a fight still in progress.

If it’s by that definition, I haven’t done very much of that since just after launch. Usually I’m the one not being dead or something truly catastrophic has happened and everyone died, not just me.

And no, I rarely if ever have premade groups. I find all of my groups in map chat in Lion’s Arch within 10 minutes. The more obscure dungeons take a little longer, but depending on the time of day, decent PuGs are not in short supply.

Well if you play this game nonstop and have guild with four others of that sort ready at anytime, so everyone knows exactly what do to from tons of painful experiance. Then dungeons might be alright to do.
But send five lvl 40s into AC exploration mode (or even just story) (without four of them being lvl 80s dragging another lvl 80 through it to teach). They will die, a lot. And very likely quit and not finish it, and they wont be able to finish the very first dungeon anytime soon.
Is that how dungeons shall be?

Hobocop.1508:

No, not really. Then again, I don’t really know what the criteria of graveyard zerging is beyond running back from the waypoint after dying to a fight still in progress.

If it’s by that definition, I haven’t done very much of that since just after launch. Usually I’m the one not being dead or something truly catastrophic has happened and everyone died, not just me.

And no, I rarely if ever have premade groups. I find all of my groups in map chat in Lion’s Arch within 10 minutes. The more obscure dungeons take a little longer, but depending on the time of day, decent PuGs are not in short supply.

You have said NOTHING to contradict the existence of the issues that have been presented. All I hear from you is that you think or are better at overcoming them.

I don’t perceive those to be legitimate issues.

Insteaad, think of something like in HoTW explorables with the bosses that ‘use ice magic’. Why is their channeled ice breath attack unblockable when a boss with a similar attack in CM can be blocked? Why does the final path 3 boss in HoTW have an annoying earth sink ability that is undodgable? Why does another mid-boss in path 2 or 3 of HoTW have undodgable or unblockable fear attacks when other effects can be avoided using dodges or blocks? They changed the rules right in the middle of the game that flies directly in the face of everything I learned during play up to that point. THOSE are legitimate issues.

Hobocop.1508:

I don’t perceive those to be legitimate issues.

Insteaad, think of something like in HoTW explorables with the bosses that ‘use ice magic’. Why is their channeled ice breath attack unblockable when a boss with a similar attack in CM can be blocked? Why does the final path 3 boss in HoTW have an annoying earth sink ability that is undodgable? Why does another mid-boss in path 2 or 3 of HoTW have undodgable or unblockable fear attacks when other effects can be avoided using dodges or blocks? They changed the rules right in the middle of the game that flies directly in the face of everything I learned during play up to that point. THOSE are legitimate issues.

One, if you don’t perceive these issues to be legitimate then what are you doing here trolling the people who do?

Two, what happened to your “adapting your play style” in those encounters. Surely for a pro player like you things of such nature shouldn’t be an issue. Also things like that I don’t consider to be a legitimate issue.

Akacia.1583:

Hobocop.1508:

Akacia.1583:

Hobocop.1508:

People still graveyard zerg? I haven’t done that in a legitimate PuG (people are actually the minimum level for the dungeon) since the first couple of weeks after launch, unless it’s that strat in CoF path 2 because most people are too lazy to do it the ‘hard’ way with no deaths, even though it’s probably easier and faster to do it that way if done correctly.

This is BS…. you know as does everyone else know who has played this that you have ran back to a fight in a dungeon and not just when you first started.

Sure I did…when I was learning the fight and didn’t know what I was doing just yet. Notice the part ‘first couple of weeks after launch’.

It still happens now as well. Believe me you do die in Arah and not just once and you do run back to the fight.

Sure there is a big difference from say the 15 times you may have used to die compared to the handful of times you do now and or you get revived in down state.

Dieing 2-3 times in a zone and running back is not graveyard zerging. Graveyard zerging is dieing 5 times to the same mob and running back over and over.

I haven’t graveyard zerg’d in a loooong time…not since I got my exotics.
There are a few points I agree on
1) mobs have too much health. I don’t mean bosses, I mean the “trash” mobs.
If difficulty needs to be increased give us more mini bosses or more trash mobs, don’t arbitrarily make them have so much health it’s insane.

2) Dungeons typically have piss poor rewards, that chest at the end should carry something good.

Otherwise I don’t mind Dungeons. They are fun, challenging and keep me entertained. They however do nothing to help me obtain my long term aesthetic goals beyond farming gold which is mitigated by repair costs (it’s more efficient to farm Plinx or Morgan’s Leap for Lodestones)

SiNoS.2147:

Akacia.1583:

Hobocop.1508:

Akacia.1583:

Hobocop.1508:

People still graveyard zerg? I haven’t done that in a legitimate PuG (people are actually the minimum level for the dungeon) since the first couple of weeks after launch, unless it’s that strat in CoF path 2 because most people are too lazy to do it the ‘hard’ way with no deaths, even though it’s probably easier and faster to do it that way if done correctly.

This is BS…. you know as does everyone else know who has played this that you have ran back to a fight in a dungeon and not just when you first started.

Sure I did…when I was learning the fight and didn’t know what I was doing just yet. Notice the part ‘first couple of weeks after launch’.

It still happens now as well. Believe me you do die in Arah and not just once and you do run back to the fight.

Sure there is a big difference from say the 15 times you may have used to die compared to the handful of times you do now and or you get revived in down state.

Dieing 2-3 times in a zone and running back is not graveyard zerging. Graveyard zerging is dieing 5 times to the same mob and running back over and over.

so up to 3 times on a mob running back in isn’t zerging but once you hit 5 is……. um OK.

upwards of 3 times per 5 players in the zone is upwards of 15 times until I guess it is considered the graveyard zerg.

Anyhow point being everyone has and does do it in this game from time to time

Akacia.1583:

SiNoS.2147:

Akacia.1583:

Hobocop.1508:

Akacia.1583:

Hobocop.1508:

People still graveyard zerg? I haven’t done that in a legitimate PuG (people are actually the minimum level for the dungeon) since the first couple of weeks after launch, unless it’s that strat in CoF path 2 because most people are too lazy to do it the ‘hard’ way with no deaths, even though it’s probably easier and faster to do it that way if done correctly.

This is BS…. you know as does everyone else know who has played this that you have ran back to a fight in a dungeon and not just when you first started.

Sure I did…when I was learning the fight and didn’t know what I was doing just yet. Notice the part ‘first couple of weeks after launch’.

It still happens now as well. Believe me you do die in Arah and not just once and you do run back to the fight.

Sure there is a big difference from say the 15 times you may have used to die compared to the handful of times you do now and or you get revived in down state.

Dieing 2-3 times in a zone and running back is not graveyard zerging. Graveyard zerging is dieing 5 times to the same mob and running back over and over.

so up to 3 times on a mob running back in isn’t zerging but once you hit 5 is……. um OK.

upwards of 3 times per 5 players in the zone is upwards of 15 times until I guess it is considered the graveyard zerg.

Anyhow point being everyone has and does do it in this game from time to time

You dident read. I said 2-3 times per ZONE. And no not everyone graveyard zergs. I’ve done it one time because the group sucked. Since then i have never done it again. I average less than a death per zone. I’ve been in since day one of early access. So saying everyone graveyard zergs is completely false. In most cases just taking the time to explain each fight to make sure every one knows what to expect it makes it much easier to dodge the stuff that will cause major issues and you tend to die much less.

No, this is not simply In My View, and trying to present it as such against my wishes is naive revisionism.

I mentioned in my original post this opinion is shared by a number of people I play with. Some people in this very thread agreed with me. Even superficial reading of this forum will demonstrate that My View is shared by a large number of people.

So what Anet and people representing them can do about?

Well, they can tell customers in a various way that such negative feedback is unwelcome.

or

They can stop antagonizing paying customers and open two-way dialog with us. Tell us what they plan to do, and when, or at least present a coherent response why they are keeping things as-is.

I’m fine with reducing health of thrash if they get downed state instead. You can already burst stuff down quite well. Only issues are some champions and bosses.
Though Easy Mode would be another solution.

Regrets of Sini.6083:

They can stop antagonizing paying customers and open two-way dialog with us. Tell us what they plan to do, and when, or at least present a coherent response why they are keeping things as-is.

The thing is, a lot of your expectations are unrealistic considering the nature of the game and the way dungeons are designed.

That’s not to say I don’t agree with some of your points but I also vehemently disagree with some.

1. Bugs. Of course bugs need to be fixed. Stuff involving dodging, like where you try to dodge roll away from a melee hit only to roll in place and get smacked anyway. I’d lump unintuitive design in here too, things like the Destroyer Troll boss in CoE Front Door path. Huge hp boss, doesn’t attack, requires minimal effort to kill, just takes forEVER. Not a good design. I’d hope to see some of these get ironed out sooner rather than later.

2. I’ve run with pick-up groups for 95% of my dungeons. This includes enough CoF to get a full set of armor and most of the rest of the explorable paths (still have to tackle most of Arah/CoE). The only time I’ve seen graveyard zerging is when the vast majority of the group did not know what to expect going in AND several people were clearly poorly traited/talented for dungeon content. Glass cannon types.

A bunch of people have said it already but this game does not have a tanking role. Period. There are survivability choices you can make but only in the context of letting you take a couple extra hits. There are group healing choices you can make but in the context of supplementing self-healing and just plain smart play avoiding environmental damage and boss abilities. A number of fights require critical thinking in regards to how to go about winning. I like that a lot.

In the context of the idea that yes, there are occasional poorly-designed encounters, the overall thing I’ve taken away from dungeons is this: if you just died, there was a better way to do what you were doing.

3. Environmental traps/puzzles. Yeah here’s one where you and I are at polar opposites. I love the boulder trap in CoF Path 1. Though it can be very frustrating I love the flame tunnel trap in CoF Path 3. The laser trap in CoE Front Door. Flame gargoyles and floor spikes in AC. Hell, the first time I was in that room in CM where spikes started coming up from the floor I laughed because it was straight up like kids yelling THE FLOOR IS LAVA.

It’s creative game design and it makes the dungeons more than just a mindless slog through a series of trash and bosses over and over. It spices things up, and it makes these places feel like real enemy strongholds rather than just a bus station where all the bad guys hang out. There’s such a thing as too much but I haven’t yet encountered it yet.

4. This is situational. There are some places where trash (and in some cases, bosses) have way too much hp. The bosses in Honor of the Waves are pretty bad for this. Especially where mechanics are relatively easy to figure out and deal with, all it becomes is a marathon to kill stuff before you die of boredom.

Some stuff needs to have a lot of hp because the idea is to consistently survive over a long period of time. Giganticus Lupicus in Arah is a great example of a huge hp boss that feels reasonable for having it. Some of the Honor of the Waves bosses could benefit by leaving their hp the same but giving them a second “phase” of abilities, making the fight feel more dynamic.

5. Also agree here but as many have pointed out ANet has agreed and are working on a solution.

Overall… GW2 dungeons aren’t perfect by any stretch but they’re so much more dynamic and different. As a long time WoW player, it took years for Blizzard to even approach the kind of experience in a dungeon that ANet has put in at launch. That things aren’t always perfectly designed or tuned is, frankly, to be expected given that this is still a VERY young game.

Anyone who played WoW back in vanilla remembers the absolute nightmare slogs that were Blackrock Depths, Scholomance or Lower Blackrock Spire with an inexperienced group. The time I’ve spent in any given GW2 dungeon is dwarfed (BRD pun intended) by the hours it took to complete some of the launch dungeons in WoW, and those had very little variety beyond kill trash, kill boss, repeat ad nauseum.

So while I hope to see some eventual retuning and thought that signals ANet learning from their initial set of dungeon content, I’m pretty happy with things so far.

Agreed. Dungeons are terrible.

Die-rez-die-rez is not a feature or a mechanic, it is sloppy design.

Rovaeden.8546:

Agreed. Dungeons are terrible.

Die-rez-die-rez is not a feature or a mechanic, it is sloppy design.

Funny, I don’t experience die-rez-die-rez in my dungeons. Maybe we’re playing different games.

Or see above.

Anet… i love the game. love it. Gotta say though, the dungeon design is absolutely horrible. it devolves into chaos with the lack of strategy. Either keep the lack of holy trinity and tune it that people can fend for themselves if they draw aggro or figure out a way that people can tank and heal. As it is now, it’s a glaringly miserable part of the game.

PLEASE FIX!

Regrets of Sini.6083:

No, this is not simply In My View, and trying to present it as such against my wishes is naive revisionism.

I mentioned in my original post this opinion is shared by a number of people I play with. Some people in this very thread agreed with me. Even superficial reading of this forum will demonstrate that My View is shared by a large number of people.

So what Anet and people representing them can do about?

Well, they can tell customers in a various way that such negative feedback is unwelcome.

or

They can stop antagonizing paying customers and open two-way dialog with us. Tell us what they plan to do, and when, or at least present a coherent response why they are keeping things as-is.

I have never played with you or even know what server you are on. But sadly i have to agree with you….