Guild Wars 2

Also people complaining about wipes and deaths. What do you think happens to those top end guild who write up the raid strats most of you use in other games? If you cant handle the difficulty, you arent ment to be doing the explore modes.

Even saying this, there are paths in every dungeon that is CONSIDERABLY easier than others and still allows casuals to get the tokens for the same quality gear you can craft..

lol I can tell the people who didnt level to 30+ during each of the bwe’s just to experience the challenge.

Gear matters? what do people think we ran with during the bwe’s ran with? exotics?

You think we had guides for running it during the bwes? We had nothing but our wits and resolve. Butler route and die so much to spend 1g 25s REALLY REALLY?
You can not be serious. It is hard but not that hard and im a bloodly ele.

i like dungeons being “hard” (story is pretty easy most of the time imo), and i’m more thinking some should be harder, some bosses are just too easy as they are when preceding trash packs could send me back to graveyard in seconds if i didn’t pay enough attention.

as for rewards, it probably wouldn’t be bad to have more rares drops.

didn’t do explorable yet though.

Learning the Dungeon is not the problem here as the OP said “Incredibly hard, incredibly unrewarding” <———- this exactly. I don’t have any complain about it being hard, or sometimes it takes a certain encounter to do a few times to actually beat but that isn’t the problem, the problem is the reward.

Now about the reward think about this for a second, you do a dungeon you get about 20 tokens 30 for your first time beating it, to get a full set of 6 pieces of gear you need 1380 tokens, to get a set with 1 weapon 1770 tokens, if you use 2 like pistols you need 1980 tokens, and that is only for 1 set what about your switch weapon, on average that is 100 runs. Really? 100 runs for one set and thats only for 1 dungeon set that is wayyyyy to much it makes the reward not worth the effort thus very unrewarding. And don’t argue that “ohh its the prestige set” no my friend if i see someone with that set i just say to myself " he had a lot of time on his hand" because CoF exp mode takes no skill i’ve pugged it so many times it just becomes very boring to run after so many times

Some of you will say “ohh its end game content, they did that for the replay value” ummm no you can easily make new characters play the different story line do the dungeons again with that toon to get him gear and you can do that for 8 professions i mean for casual gamers even hardcore that would take a while

Seriously Anet needs to do something about this because they will lose the so called casual no grind customers they promised to cater too, there is tons of replay option for this game and 100 runs of the same dungeon doing the same thing over and over again is just not fun and not even challenging its just “GRIND” which if i remember they said this game would have non

Antium.1582:

I hate to say this, I really do, but here goes nothing.

Anyone who holds to the thought that the current state of the dungeons is a good thing for the vast majority of the current GW2 audience is flat out completely wrong. Sorry, you just are.

Here’s why.

1. People play dungeons for the rewards. If they suck, people will hate.
2. People don’t have all the time in the world to put in 2-3 hours for a 4 boss dungeon.
3. Current dungeon gameplay is so drastically different from non dungeon pve that it feels completely disjointed from the world.
4. Inconsistent. Trash pulls are harder than Boss. Level 40 dungeons easier than level 30.
5. Wiping time and time again will discourage further play.

The above statements are true for about oh, I say, 80% of the people who play.

There is a lot that is wrong with the dungeons right now. There is a lot that is right as well. The reason the dungeon issue is so glaring is because everything else is so polished and honed. Dungeons feel…well crappy.

Bar minimum, if nothing else is done, rewards need to be increased. I don’t mind a challenge, but at least reward me for my time. Kill a champion, get a white. Really?!

This man speaks the truth better than I can. ANet seriously need to start reading all the valid complaints like this one to make dungeons sensible in this game.

yeah, but once you get the item you want it will feel so much better in the end. also you wont see the same item EVERYWHERE you go.

Ruien.9506:

Please Anet do not make these dungeons easier. What many forget here, is that these 5 man explorable is JUST LIKE the raid content of other games. Everyone isnt supposed to do them.

So far I have completed all but 2 explorable paths and in my opinion they need to be harder. Nothing in those paths are hard except knowing when to dodge and when to attack.

All of you casuals screamed for years in WoW saying it wasn’t fair raiders get better gear to raid and most top raiders said we don’t do it for the gear and you laughed. Well heres your proof. We are doing the content for 0 power upgrades and having a blast.

Call me elitist or whatever. The fact is, these explore modes are for the raid oriented people in the MMo community. Anet should leave them as is. The rest of you have the whole rest of the game.

Except that its the only way to get specific armor sets. I’ve also seen it said that the dungeon armor (or maybe crafting) has the best stats, so it is still giving you better rewards than us that can’t do it (especially if we don’t guildies/friends playing) (and is it the only way to get those sigils on the dungeon armor? if so thats an advantage as well). No content should be completely off limits to a player, especially if they are casual players.

Grabby.8704:

GW2 dungeons definitely have a different set of skills needed than dungeons in other games. I think it may be compounded because the PVE gameplay outside of dungeons seems pretty familiar to people – hard hitting weapons and quick kills are the way to go in the world.

It’s best to think of the dungeons like you would for a pvp build. Focus on survivability and utility. Work as a team and use your tools to get combos, control and stun your enemies, use environment features to block Line- of- Sight, and don’t assume that anyone can tank it for you. Kiting will almost always work better.

Slows and swiftness are extremely valuable as well… using them, you can control who the boss or trash is chasing or attacking to make sure that no one person is taking all the heat.

It is hard at the beginning… but it’s not a design problem as much as it is just a different game than you were playing before. (assuming you were used to WoW, SWTOR, or any of the other heads to that hydra)

Please folks, read this. and then when you are done read it again. We are playing a different game. This is not a lvl through dungeon queue spamming while you stand around in town game.

Consider it like this. Dungeons are this games END GAME. Do you expect to go into an END GAME raid instance in any other game with halfkitten gear/spec and expect to do good? If you have played end game in any way shape or form in any other game, you would not. Do not expect to do it here.

This is definately a learn to play issue. People are completing these dungoens repeatedly! My husband did them several times in a row last night in about 3 hours worth of play to make some money back after having purchased all his lvl 80 exotic gear. Without ever wiping!! If the dungeons were horribly scaled and impossible for your average joe why is it all these cassual gamers that even i know personaly are doing them repeatedly?

The answer is, they are not over tuned or un doable. They are jsut right and people who are having a hard time need to learn a bit mroe about thier classes and how to use them in a structured group environment.

Efaicia.3672:

Grabby.8704:

GW2 dungeons definitely have a different set of skills needed than dungeons in other games. I think it may be compounded because the PVE gameplay outside of dungeons seems pretty familiar to people – hard hitting weapons and quick kills are the way to go in the world.

It’s best to think of the dungeons like you would for a pvp build. Focus on survivability and utility. Work as a team and use your tools to get combos, control and stun your enemies, use environment features to block Line- of- Sight, and don’t assume that anyone can tank it for you. Kiting will almost always work better.

Slows and swiftness are extremely valuable as well… using them, you can control who the boss or trash is chasing or attacking to make sure that no one person is taking all the heat.

It is hard at the beginning… but it’s not a design problem as much as it is just a different game than you were playing before. (assuming you were used to WoW, SWTOR, or any of the other heads to that hydra)

Please folks, read this. and then when you are done read it again. We are playing a different game. This is not a lvl through dungeon queue spamming while you stand around in town game.

Consider it like this. Dungeons are this games END GAME. Do you expect to go into an END GAME raid instance in any other game with halfkitten gear/spec and expect to do good? If you have played end game in any way shape or form in any other game, you would not. Do not expect to do it here.

This is definately a learn to play issue. People are completing these dungoens repeatedly! My husband did them several times in a row last night in about 3 hours worth of play to make some money back after having purchased all his lvl 80 exotic gear. Without ever wiping!! If the dungeons were horribly scaled and impossible for your average joe why is it all these cassual gamers that even i know personaly are doing them repeatedly?

The answer is, they are not over tuned or un doable. They are jsut right and people who are having a hard time need to learn a bit mroe about thier classes and how to use them in a structured group environment.

This person speaks the truth!

Im sorry, but every one of you complaining about the dungeons seriously needs to get it together. They are tough, and tough for a reason. I cant find it, but one of the devs quoted that they are the End Game currently. And I for one love the challenge they bring.

Seriously you complainers, get it together!

Your high damage build, expecting to only use 3 of your favorite skills, is NOT going to work.
Your running around like a headless chicken, expecting to not have to communicate and use teamwork, is NOT going to work.

Learn combo fields
Learn your class itself
Learn all your skills, and what they are for
Learn which weapons and skills are necessary for specific fights
Learn which tactics are needed for different fights (including trash pulls)
Learn to adapt those skills for different fights (one may be heavy condition removal, another high protection, another needing CC)
Learn how to work and support your team (everyone can support)

And lastly, the rewards are GREAT! But IF you can learn how to play these dungeons.

As my guild learned last night, we got over a gold, plus tokens, plus gear, plus huge XP gains when we didnt have to take 20-30 deaths.

HellHound.5480:

Efaicia.3672:

Grabby.8704:

GW2 dungeons definitely have a different set of skills needed than dungeons in other games. I think it may be compounded because the PVE gameplay outside of dungeons seems pretty familiar to people – hard hitting weapons and quick kills are the way to go in the world.

It’s best to think of the dungeons like you would for a pvp build. Focus on survivability and utility. Work as a team and use your tools to get combos, control and stun your enemies, use environment features to block Line- of- Sight, and don’t assume that anyone can tank it for you. Kiting will almost always work better.

Slows and swiftness are extremely valuable as well… using them, you can control who the boss or trash is chasing or attacking to make sure that no one person is taking all the heat.

It is hard at the beginning… but it’s not a design problem as much as it is just a different game than you were playing before. (assuming you were used to WoW, SWTOR, or any of the other heads to that hydra)

Please folks, read this. and then when you are done read it again. We are playing a different game. This is not a lvl through dungeon queue spamming while you stand around in town game.

Consider it like this. Dungeons are this games END GAME. Do you expect to go into an END GAME raid instance in any other game with halfkitten gear/spec and expect to do good? If you have played end game in any way shape or form in any other game, you would not. Do not expect to do it here.

This is definately a learn to play issue. People are completing these dungoens repeatedly! My husband did them several times in a row last night in about 3 hours worth of play to make some money back after having purchased all his lvl 80 exotic gear. Without ever wiping!! If the dungeons were horribly scaled and impossible for your average joe why is it all these cassual gamers that even i know personaly are doing them repeatedly?

The answer is, they are not over tuned or un doable. They are jsut right and people who are having a hard time need to learn a bit mroe about thier classes and how to use them in a structured group environment.

This person speaks the truth!

Im sorry, but every one of you complaining about the dungeons seriously needs to get it together. They are tough, and tough for a reason. I cant find it, but one of the devs quoted that they are the End Game currently. And I for one love the challenge they bring.

Seriously you complainers, get it together!

Your high damage build, expecting to only use 3 of your favorite skills, is NOT going to work.
Your running around like a headless chicken, expecting to not have to communicate and use teamwork, is NOT going to work.

Learn combo fields
Learn your class itself
Learn all your skills, and what they are for
Learn which weapons and skills are necessary for specific fights
Learn which tactics are needed for different fights (including trash pulls)
Learn to adapt those skills for different fights (one may be heavy condition removal, another high protection, another needing CC)
Learn how to work and support your team (everyone can support)

And lastly, the rewards are GREAT! But IF you can learn how to play these dungeons.

As my guild learned last night, we got over a gold, plus tokens, plus gear, plus huge XP gains when we didnt have to take 20-30 deaths.

I cant agree with “great” rewards in anyway shape or form. Maybe for leveling they could be decent but for max level players they hardly even register. While the exp and gold are nice the gear is not and the tokens are the real value, however, it tkaes 180 to get an items and hundreds of runs to get a full set + weapons. Overall only the most dedicated will get something beyond the CoF speed run set.

Melphina.9035:

HellHound.5480:

Efaicia.3672:

Grabby.8704:

GW2 dungeons definitely have a different set of skills needed than dungeons in other games. I think it may be compounded because the PVE gameplay outside of dungeons seems pretty familiar to people – hard hitting weapons and quick kills are the way to go in the world.

It’s best to think of the dungeons like you would for a pvp build. Focus on survivability and utility. Work as a team and use your tools to get combos, control and stun your enemies, use environment features to block Line- of- Sight, and don’t assume that anyone can tank it for you. Kiting will almost always work better.

Slows and swiftness are extremely valuable as well… using them, you can control who the boss or trash is chasing or attacking to make sure that no one person is taking all the heat.

It is hard at the beginning… but it’s not a design problem as much as it is just a different game than you were playing before. (assuming you were used to WoW, SWTOR, or any of the other heads to that hydra)

Please folks, read this. and then when you are done read it again. We are playing a different game. This is not a lvl through dungeon queue spamming while you stand around in town game.

Consider it like this. Dungeons are this games END GAME. Do you expect to go into an END GAME raid instance in any other game with halfkitten gear/spec and expect to do good? If you have played end game in any way shape or form in any other game, you would not. Do not expect to do it here.

This is definately a learn to play issue. People are completing these dungoens repeatedly! My husband did them several times in a row last night in about 3 hours worth of play to make some money back after having purchased all his lvl 80 exotic gear. Without ever wiping!! If the dungeons were horribly scaled and impossible for your average joe why is it all these cassual gamers that even i know personaly are doing them repeatedly?

The answer is, they are not over tuned or un doable. They are jsut right and people who are having a hard time need to learn a bit mroe about thier classes and how to use them in a structured group environment.

This person speaks the truth!

Im sorry, but every one of you complaining about the dungeons seriously needs to get it together. They are tough, and tough for a reason. I cant find it, but one of the devs quoted that they are the End Game currently. And I for one love the challenge they bring.

Seriously you complainers, get it together!

Your high damage build, expecting to only use 3 of your favorite skills, is NOT going to work.
Your running around like a headless chicken, expecting to not have to communicate and use teamwork, is NOT going to work.

Learn combo fields
Learn your class itself
Learn all your skills, and what they are for
Learn which weapons and skills are necessary for specific fights
Learn which tactics are needed for different fights (including trash pulls)
Learn to adapt those skills for different fights (one may be heavy condition removal, another high protection, another needing CC)
Learn how to work and support your team (everyone can support)

And lastly, the rewards are GREAT! But IF you can learn how to play these dungeons.

As my guild learned last night, we got over a gold, plus tokens, plus gear, plus huge XP gains when we didnt have to take 20-30 deaths.

I cant agree with “great” rewards in anyway shape or form. Maybe for leveling they could be decent but for max level players they hardly even register. While the exp and gold are nice the gear is not and the tokens are the real value, however, it tkaes 180 to get an items and hundreds of runs to get a full set + weapons. Overall only the most dedicated will get something beyond the CoF speed run set.

Nothing wrong with that, that I see.

It brings back the days of yore when dungeons (in this case, I would call these 5-man raids) were an accomplishment. Im sorry, but I dont really see why every player is promised that they will experience these.

I understand fully, as a player, wanting to see all the content. Going back to UO or EQ1, I remember longing to see the Planes of Power, or other high end raids, and never experiencing them.

Did it suck? It did, but then nothing is as fulfilling and rewarding than overcoming that challenge, getting better as a player and seeing the content, then beating the content.

Granted though, in most MMOs of old, it wasnt based on your skill as a player, but time invested + items.

I like how this game brings back those challenges like in EQ1 or vanilla WoW, without require time investment or items, but skill in players.

Its a rewarding and fresh change!

A learn to play issue? Hardly. I don’t mind a challenge and sure, these dungeons and specially exploration mode, give me that challenge but its not a learn to play issue.

These dungeons are not end game, no matter how you look at it. The dungeons are just horrible untweaked and utilize horrible gameplay gimmicks to make it look hard.
It is nice that you have a nice big guild that likes to run dungeons using voice chat, but the majority of people Pug because of various reasons. For example the guild not being online, having different work hours etc.

These dungeons should be doable in Story Mode as a Pug (which I actually believe they are) and even in exploration mode, albeit with more coordination and communication. However it is a shame that bosses and even demi bosses that wield no loot require the use of weak gameplay mechanics to damage the players.

AC exploration mode 2 for example. The first real hard hitting mob you face is the Queen spider. utilizing a weak gameplay mechanic of poison and what seemed to be fire(or whatever those strange fire explosions are) These poisons stick so long on you and bleed you out fast, specially if your a low HP class. Not perse a problem, except for the fact it casts like 3-5 rings in such a way you’re almost always caught in the middle of it and thus get hit. You can dodge it but, most of the time you’ll barely make it and with the low 2 point dodge system..well options are limited.

Then comes commander Kohlen? or whatever his name is. This boss really uses a 1 shot gimmick attack that pulls you towards him. The visual animation for this is hard to see and there has been a few times it just pulled me away from behind a pillar.

kitten like that gets on my nerves. I am not an inexperienced MMO player, I know the benefits of team work and communication and yes dungeons like those in WoW, even the hard mode ones, were extremely easy to complete.

So yes, I do enjoy the harder challange these dungeons bring, but I also acknowledge that these dungeons require a few changes here and there. Tweaks if you will.

Melphina.9035:

HellHound.5480:

Efaicia.3672:

Grabby.8704:

GW2 dungeons definitely have a different set of skills needed than dungeons in other games. I think it may be compounded because the PVE gameplay outside of dungeons seems pretty familiar to people – hard hitting weapons and quick kills are the way to go in the world.

It’s best to think of the dungeons like you would for a pvp build. Focus on survivability and utility. Work as a team and use your tools to get combos, control and stun your enemies, use environment features to block Line- of- Sight, and don’t assume that anyone can tank it for you. Kiting will almost always work better.

Slows and swiftness are extremely valuable as well… using them, you can control who the boss or trash is chasing or attacking to make sure that no one person is taking all the heat.

It is hard at the beginning… but it’s not a design problem as much as it is just a different game than you were playing before. (assuming you were used to WoW, SWTOR, or any of the other heads to that hydra)

Please folks, read this. and then when you are done read it again. We are playing a different game. This is not a lvl through dungeon queue spamming while you stand around in town game.

Consider it like this. Dungeons are this games END GAME. Do you expect to go into an END GAME raid instance in any other game with halfkitten gear/spec and expect to do good? If you have played end game in any way shape or form in any other game, you would not. Do not expect to do it here.

This is definately a learn to play issue. People are completing these dungoens repeatedly! My husband did them several times in a row last night in about 3 hours worth of play to make some money back after having purchased all his lvl 80 exotic gear. Without ever wiping!! If the dungeons were horribly scaled and impossible for your average joe why is it all these cassual gamers that even i know personaly are doing them repeatedly?

The answer is, they are not over tuned or un doable. They are jsut right and people who are having a hard time need to learn a bit mroe about thier classes and how to use them in a structured group environment.

This person speaks the truth!

Im sorry, but every one of you complaining about the dungeons seriously needs to get it together. They are tough, and tough for a reason. I cant find it, but one of the devs quoted that they are the End Game currently. And I for one love the challenge they bring.

Seriously you complainers, get it together!

Your high damage build, expecting to only use 3 of your favorite skills, is NOT going to work.
Your running around like a headless chicken, expecting to not have to communicate and use teamwork, is NOT going to work.

Learn combo fields
Learn your class itself
Learn all your skills, and what they are for
Learn which weapons and skills are necessary for specific fights
Learn which tactics are needed for different fights (including trash pulls)
Learn to adapt those skills for different fights (one may be heavy condition removal, another high protection, another needing CC)
Learn how to work and support your team (everyone can support)

And lastly, the rewards are GREAT! But IF you can learn how to play these dungeons.

As my guild learned last night, we got over a gold, plus tokens, plus gear, plus huge XP gains when we didnt have to take 20-30 deaths.

I cant agree with “great” rewards in anyway shape or form. Maybe for leveling they could be decent but for max level players they hardly even register. While the exp and gold are nice the gear is not and the tokens are the real value, however, it tkaes 180 to get an items and hundreds of runs to get a full set + weapons. Overall only the most dedicated will get something beyond the CoF speed run set.

Still not seeing the problem here. I’m sorry, I know what it takes, as I am watching my husband attain all of it. I can see how quickly he is gaining 1.money 2.gear 3.tokens He already has a plan laid out and knows exactly how long it will take him (which isn’t extreme btw)

He has a full time job and walks the dogs 3 times a day, we make and eat dinner together, helps our daughter with homework AND he is an avid watcher of several shows on t.v.

How is this not cassual friendly?

After reading all the posts from this topic and from my limited personal experience ingame (only did AC story mode so far) I’ve concluded a few things:

1. Story mode should be easier a bit. Its a more casual and “controled” version of every dungeon. By controled I mean, we have a lore related reason to go there, with npcs to support us. It could be more forgiving to the players, specially the lower ones.

2. Rewards: For story modes, they are like quests, and the quest reward, coupled with the eventual chest should be enough, IF they make them a bit easier, like I suggested above. For exploration modes, if they do take as long as I see people saying all around, they DEFINITELY should improve the rewards.

Now, I agree with someone who said that every single dungeon in a game, should follow a very simple concept: they should all be dificult, fun and rewarding. Also, the dificult should have a very clear and linear curve progressing towards the most dificult (and rewarding) experiences being the most high level ones in the game.

Right now I believe the dungeon content is not clearly following this concept. Story modes should be doable for pugs with non optimal builds but exploration ones shouldn’t. Also, the game should give the players some visual notification that the content they are about to see is harder than what they are used to on the open world. I know it’s a common sense for most of us, but “hard” in GW2 really means hard. Players could be made aware of it beforehand, to avoid frustration.

On my AC experience, I didn’t found most of the boss fights very fun. It was interesting that what we call “trash mobs” were 10x harder than the bosses themselves. And it was not because of any obscure combat mechanics, but just because of the raw damage and unavoidable almost instakills they are capable of doing (ranger traps from AC ghosts for example, specially when 2 of them decide to cast it on the same player, which happens frequently).

My suggestion: drop their damage a bit. Why non bosses should be that strong, at all? I think it would even be a lot funier if they were weaker individually but we had to deal with a more diverse group with more mobs at once.

About their hp polls, I never grasped the concept behind giving any mob without any clear visual indication that they are REALLY strong with thousands of hps A giant, a dragon and any overly sized monster should have thousands of hps. A normal sized npc like many others we encounter elsewhere should not… Better to give them special abilities to make them tougher, like the mesmer ghost that can reflect projectiles. Make them quicker, make them have SKILLS that give them mitigation, not just and simply a gargantuan hp pool.

All in all, this game is fantastic. I would love dungeons to remain hard, but less unforgiving. Also the zerging should definitely go, somehow. Make it so that we can only ress inside a dungeon after everyone else died or someone come and ress you.

Strill.2591:

Utena.8052:

Id rather blow the dungeons up with a char-zooka, then actually do them. No one i know willingly wants to do a dungeon. They are hard, annoying and not worth the effort or time doing them ever.

I don’t like wasting time and having to repair my attire cause i got one shot in a dumbed down level 30 instance by a guy who is across the map hitting me for 5k when im 4 k max health. Only to get rewarded by some unusable gear that isn’t class specific or way to low a level to use.

Yeah good times.

If you’re referring to Ascalon Catacombs, then you ignored the bright fancy chargeup animation that that guy does before he uses scorpion wire. You need to dodge or block his attack. It’s not too hard to kite him solo if you’re paying attention. I know I’ve done it myself while helping friends through.

When you figured out the tactics, it was a really fun fight….as with many boss fights in GW2

Im sorry, but I just dont understand how you players are not getting it.

I truly TRULY understand the frustration, I do. And I was just like you my first go on AC Explore. Didnt even finish it, and was mad that I lost 20s in repairs.

I hate to be that guy, but it really, REALLY is a Learn to Play issue. It is.

I know alot of you are frustrated and come here to complain, and even try to logically back up your claims on the how the dungeons are un-tweaked, and I do get it.

But you truly have to Learn to Play.

I am not saying you all are bad players, but you HAVE to get your mind out of the box for these.

And yes, these dungeons ARE End Game. These are your Raids, persay.

And not like raids in other games, where gear progression makes the previous raids a joke, but they bring to mind the raids of old, EQ1 or Vanilla WoW style. You need coordination.

Anet is NOT expecting, NOR promising, that every player is going to experience them. I seriously need to find that quote =(.

But please understand, it truly is a learn to play issue.

I didnt get it, and I hated to hear it, but once I did learn, and I mean LEARN what all my skills actually do, how to utilize boons, CC, tactics correctly, these dungeons are a breeze, they really are.

And when they are a breeze, and your not taking a million deaths, they are quite rewarding. See Here

I will give this to you guys…

Come with me, let me lead your group. Bring voice chat, and I will lead you through AC explore. I will teach you some things I have learned playing these, and you will see, WILL see, that these dungeons are only as difficult as you let them be.

My opinion is the game is new and we are all adjusting to the same new mechanics. I think they are a bit too hard (namly a few of the instant death unavoidble attacks that go through all shields and dodge rolls) but dont need to be tweaked much. I think damage and the cool downs of a couple common npc skills need to be tweaked. What id rather see is slightly larger windows of oppurtunity to react to the enemies and bosses moves, right now you practicaly need to activate you defense/dodge before they use some of their more danagerous skills to avoid them and even then many of them ignore shields or dodges.

I wish it was a bit more like monster hunter actions and reactions.

My only problem with dungeons is the ammount of one hit kill abilities or at least hard hitting abilities.
On most bosses they are obvious and with some practise you can easily dodge them.
But when normal trash kill you in two hits and you only got 14K HP as an ele and not enough endurance to dodge everything.

It get frustrating real quick.

Syrellaris.9125:

A learn to play issue? Hardly. I don’t mind a challenge and sure, these dungeons and specially exploration mode, give me that challenge but its not a learn to play issue.

It is a Learn to Play. You can either let me teach you, or you can bang your head on the wall and falsely believe its the game, not the player.

These dungeons are not end game, no matter how you look at it. The dungeons are just horrible untweaked and utilize horrible gameplay gimmicks to make it look hard.
It is nice that you have a nice big guild that likes to run dungeons using voice chat, but the majority of people Pug because of various reasons. For example the guild not being online, having different work hours etc.

I would say that for now, pugs are going to be frustrating. And its not really intended to be pugged. Its intended to be done with coordinated teams. Now, you can pug 5 good players who can coordinate well, but this is, by design, not intended to be pugged, nor is it intended that all players are promised to do these dungeons. (someday I will find that quote from one of the devs stating this)

These dungeons should be doable in Story Mode as a Pug (which I actually believe they are) and even in exploration mode, albeit with more coordination and communication. However it is a shame that bosses and even demi bosses that wield no loot require the use of weak gameplay mechanics to damage the players.

Agree on story mode, disagree on everything else. See above on Explore mode dungeons

AC exploration mode 2 for example. The first real hard hitting mob you face is the Queen spider. utilizing a weak gameplay mechanic of poison and what seemed to be fire(or whatever those strange fire explosions are) These poisons stick so long on you and bleed you out fast, specially if your a low HP class. Not perse a problem, except for the fact it casts like 3-5 rings in such a way you’re almost always caught in the middle of it and thus get hit. You can dodge it but, most of the time you’ll barely make it and with the low 2 point dodge system..well options are limited.

This right here tells me that you have a Learn to Play issue. All of the issues you ran into above, could have been solved on your own if you use awareness.

1) The ‘fire’ things you mention… do you know where they come from? hint: Its not from the boss. Answer: They are gargolye traps on the walls. You can kill them to stop them from throwing fire. In fact, when you go into this fight, kite the boss till you kill the gargoyle traps first.

2) Give me your class, and I can name 3-4 skills that are condition removals for you. This is another ‘L2P’ issue. Read your classes skills, all of them.
Other than the fire putting the burning condition on you, the only other condition you get is poison. This is where your condition removal skills come in. Learn to adapt and change your skills based on the fights. Yes, if you dont remove the poison, it will kill you quick.
(As a guardian, I switched my last 2 skills to ‘Purging Flame’ and ‘Smite Condition’, both condition removal skills).

3) Were you aware that she places the poison wells at a distance? What happens at melee range? can you figure this one out? Answer hint: Stay within melee range of her, she doesnt hit that hard, and I think its the reason why she has a weak melee attack

There you go, I hope you learn 3 tips from me. If your whole group can do this, she is a breeze. Last hint: If your teammates do go down, try to make it a priority to bring them back up. its rather quick. But dont bother with dead players

Then comes commander Kohlen? or whatever his name is. This boss really uses a 1 shot gimmick attack that pulls you towards him. The visual animation for this is hard to see and there has been a few times it just pulled me away from behind a pillar.

kitten like that gets on my nerves. I am not an inexperienced MMO player, I know the benefits of team work and communication and yes dungeons like those in WoW, even the hard mode ones, were extremely easy to complete.

So yes, I do enjoy the harder challange these dungeons bring, but I also acknowledge that these dungeons require a few changes here and there. Tweaks if you will.

First, that is WoW. This is not WoW. Mechanics you learned there will not work here at all.

Second, you are frustrated, and feel the game needs to be tweaked, but its your skill that needs tweaking. Your not a bad player, just that I feel you have learned things from other games that you have to unlearn.

Again, give me your class, and I can name skills that have either an Aegis effect, a reflection effect, or if you get pulled, a Stability effect. Any of these will negate his harpoon. As well, you can LoS it, as he has quite a bit of windup. Stability will prevent the knockdown after you get pulled, so you can dodge or run out.

At first, yes, its hard to notice, but do it a few times, while being aware and paying attention (if your like me, I had a habit of being focused on my skillbar, to better my rotation with… this is deadly, dont do it).
Pay attention to the boss, not your skillbar. When you pay attention, even with all the effects, you can actually, and easily, see when he is about to cast it. This is when you throw up your Aegis or your reflection, or when you start dodging.

It requires finesse, but its quite easy. I can now fight Kholer without once going down or dead now by paying attention.

As for pulling behind a pillar, that is a bug that needs to be reported. I havent had this happen to me though, so possibly lag?

AC Explore requires your attention, awareness, coordination, teamwork, and finesse. The rewards though are well worth it, if you dont die a million times, it is rewarding!

Izithel.6853:

My only problem with dungeons is the ammount of one hit kill abilities or at least hard hitting abilities.
On most bosses they are obvious and with some practise you can easily dodge them.
But when normal trash kill you in two hits and you only got 14K HP as an ele and not enough endurance to dodge everything.

It get frustrating real quick.

This is where reading the mobs abilities come in handy.

For example, the Graveling Scavengers, underneath their healthbars it tells you what they do: Knock down and leaps.

The will give you a general idea of what they do, and so learn to slot Stability or Protection skills

Kryil.6045:

Dungeons start being ok as soon as guys STOP thinking their 20 year experience does help you at all in GW2.
This system requires a good teamwork, tactics and stuff.
Something that most MMOs are heavily lacking due to heaving one part removed by the tank/heal/dd groups.

That’s exactly why this design fails. Because there is noone who can actively tank for a sustained amount of time and there is noone who can keep heals up sufficiently enough.

That said, even a warrior tank/guardian tank can get one shotted due to the lack of proper defensive abilities that is actually required to take on a multitude of mobs at the same time.

In the first two dungeons, there are just simply way too many mobs in one location with no way around them. Take CM Explore mode as an example. You’ve got really tight quarter combat for about 90% of the time. In those tight quarters, you’ve got no chance when there are 10 mobs swarming you, not to mention the bugs connected to certain bosses and other ranged mobs in there.

The design is clearly flawed and i’m not talking from a wow player’s perspective but from a neutral standpoint here.

The holy trinity has worked for all other mmorpgs, and what this new system that gives us no dedicated tank/healer/dps actually does, is showing us why a holy trinity is needed.

The threat tables are just plain ridiculous as well.

In short, dungeon design = No control, just complete and utter chaos.

Taunts for everyone, or redesign the entire combat system. Plain and simple.

I’ve already had LOTS of friends quit the game due to the aforementioned reasons and i suspect a LOT more will do as well after they start getting into dungeons and seeing how much money they’re wasting on repair bills, by constantly being downed, and how little to no defensive abilities they have to make sure they stay alive.

Again, this was written from a neutral standpoint and i do believe i have some valid points here as well.

Strill.2591:

Utena.8052:

Id rather blow the dungeons up with a char-zooka, then actually do them. No one i know willingly wants to do a dungeon. They are hard, annoying and not worth the effort or time doing them ever.

I don’t like wasting time and having to repair my attire cause i got one shot in a dumbed down level 30 instance by a guy who is across the map hitting me for 5k when im 4 k max health. Only to get rewarded by some unusable gear that isn’t class specific or way to low a level to use.

Yeah good times.

If you’re referring to Ascalon Catacombs, then you ignored the bright fancy chargeup animation that that guy does before he uses scorpion wire. You need to dodge or block his attack. It’s not too hard to kite him solo if you’re paying attention. I know I’ve done it myself while helping friends through.

And to add to that even, if the boss fight encounter with the troll appears, if you bring kohler to the troll, they will fight eachother! Spoiler, the troll wins! So… people just need to learn some things.

Darion Mallaven.9650:

Kryil.6045:

Dungeons start being ok as soon as guys STOP thinking their 20 year experience does help you at all in GW2.
This system requires a good teamwork, tactics and stuff.
Something that most MMOs are heavily lacking due to heaving one part removed by the tank/heal/dd groups.

That’s exactly why this design fails. Because there is noone who can actively tank for a sustained amount of time and there is noone who can keep heals up sufficiently enough.

That said, even a warrior tank/guardian tank can get one shotted due to the lack of proper defensive abilities that is actually required to take on a multitude of mobs at the same time.

In the first two dungeons, there are just simply way too many mobs in one location with no way around them. Take CM Explore mode as an example. You’ve got really tight quarter combat for about 90% of the time. In those tight quarters, you’ve got no chance when there are 10 mobs swarming you, not to mention the bugs connected to certain bosses and other ranged mobs in there.

The design is clearly flawed and i’m not talking from a wow player’s perspective but from a neutral standpoint here.

The holy trinity has worked for all other mmorpgs, and what this new system that gives us no dedicated tank/healer/dps actually does, is showing us why a holy trinity is needed.

The threat tables are just plain ridiculous as well.

In short, dungeon design = No control, just complete and utter chaos.

Taunts for everyone, or redesign the entire combat system. Plain and simple.

I’ve already had LOTS of friends quit the game due to the aforementioned reasons and i suspect a LOT more will do as well after they start getting into dungeons and seeing how much money they’re wasting on repair bills, by constantly being downed, and how little to no defensive abilities they have to make sure they stay alive.

Again, this was written from a neutral standpoint and i do believe i have some valid points here as well.

As a warrior with 2k toughness and 25k health, I never get oneshotted. Also have AoE heals for my team in the form of shouts and a trait, and my runes make all my shouts cleanse. I’m an AoE buffing/cleansing/healing unstoppable machine. There are always builds that will work. Using skype, my friends and I work out what to do. My guardian friend absolutely demolishes dungeons. Impassable wall, anyone?

With good teamwork, and strategy, and proper builds, and smart play in general, these dungeons have actually netted me coin, not lost it.

Damocles.5430:

Darion Mallaven.9650:

Kryil.6045:

Dungeons start being ok as soon as guys STOP thinking their 20 year experience does help you at all in GW2.
This system requires a good teamwork, tactics and stuff.
Something that most MMOs are heavily lacking due to heaving one part removed by the tank/heal/dd groups.

That’s exactly why this design fails. Because there is noone who can actively tank for a sustained amount of time and there is noone who can keep heals up sufficiently enough.

That said, even a warrior tank/guardian tank can get one shotted due to the lack of proper defensive abilities that is actually required to take on a multitude of mobs at the same time.

In the first two dungeons, there are just simply way too many mobs in one location with no way around them. Take CM Explore mode as an example. You’ve got really tight quarter combat for about 90% of the time. In those tight quarters, you’ve got no chance when there are 10 mobs swarming you, not to mention the bugs connected to certain bosses and other ranged mobs in there.

The design is clearly flawed and i’m not talking from a wow player’s perspective but from a neutral standpoint here.

The holy trinity has worked for all other mmorpgs, and what this new system that gives us no dedicated tank/healer/dps actually does, is showing us why a holy trinity is needed.

The threat tables are just plain ridiculous as well.

In short, dungeon design = No control, just complete and utter chaos.

Taunts for everyone, or redesign the entire combat system. Plain and simple.

I’ve already had LOTS of friends quit the game due to the aforementioned reasons and i suspect a LOT more will do as well after they start getting into dungeons and seeing how much money they’re wasting on repair bills, by constantly being downed, and how little to no defensive abilities they have to make sure they stay alive.

Again, this was written from a neutral standpoint and i do believe i have some valid points here as well.

As a warrior with 2k toughness and 25k health, I never get oneshotted. Also have AoE heals for my team in the form of shouts and a trait, and my runes make all my shouts cleanse. I’m an AoE buffing/cleansing/healing unstoppable machine. There are always builds that will work. Using skype, my friends and I work out what to do. My guardian friend absolutely demolishes dungeons. Impassable wall, anyone?

With good teamwork, and strategy, and proper builds, and smart play in general, these dungeons have actually netted me coin, not lost it.

I’ve got 2.5k toughness on my warrior, and i don’t get one shotted by elites. I do however get oneshotted by some of the bosses. If it’s a bug, i don’t really know, i just see what i see and go from there.

Take the boss ontop of the stairs by the water arena in AC Explore mode as an example. His whirlwind one shots me. Tried time and time again, can’t even avoid it since it pulls everyone towards him.

I think you’re just being a bit full of it, when you claim you never lose money in dungeons. Are you really talking about explore modes? Cause normal modes are far from the same thing.

I’ve also been on ventrilo with those i’ve done dungeons with, and we’ve had mesmer, thief, engi, warrior, necro set up so far.

My build is for tanking and survivability. Defense → tactics → Arms with Defense maxed out. and tier 2 in the other two trees.

However, wtf does that do? Nothing, cause the mobs are hitting anything but me.

I’m running around having to revive people cause the mobs won’t stop hitting them even after they’re in a bleedout situation. Doesn’t matter how hard i hit them.

Why did they even bother giving us shields and maces when they don’t do anything?

Tactics and clever gameplay doesn’t do jack when the design won’t allow for any smart play.

It’s just a random mess and you’ve been lucky if your claim is true.

Darion Mallaven.9650:

Damocles.5430:

As a warrior with 2k toughness and 25k health, I never get oneshotted. Also have AoE heals for my team in the form of shouts and a trait, and my runes make all my shouts cleanse. I’m an AoE buffing/cleansing/healing unstoppable machine. There are always builds that will work. Using skype, my friends and I work out what to do. My guardian friend absolutely demolishes dungeons. Impassable wall, anyone?

With good teamwork, and strategy, and proper builds, and smart play in general, these dungeons have actually netted me coin, not lost it.

I’ve got 2.5k toughness on my warrior, and i don’t get one shotted by elites. I do however get oneshotted by some of the bosses. If it’s a bug, i don’t really know, i just see what i see and go from there.

Take the boss ontop of the stairs by the water arena in AC Explore mode as an example. His whirlwind one shots me. Tried time and time again, can’t even avoid it since it pulls everyone towards him.

I think you’re just being a bit full of it, when you claim you never lose money in dungeons. Are you really talking about explore modes? Cause normal modes are far from the same thing.

I’ve also been on ventrilo with those i’ve done dungeons with, and we’ve had mesmer, thief, engi, warrior, necro set up so far.

My build is for tanking and survivability. Defense -> tactics -> Arms with Defense maxed out. and tier 2 in the other two trees.

However, wtf does that do? Nothing, cause the mobs are hitting anything but me.

I’m running around having to revive people cause the mobs won’t stop hitting them even after they’re in a bleedout situation. Doesn’t matter how hard i hit them.

Why did they even bother giving us shields and maces when they don’t do anything?

Tactics and clever gameplay doesn’t do jack when the design won’t allow for any smart play.

It’s just a random mess and you’ve been lucky if your claim is true.

I’m not lucky, my group just isnt full of whiny losers. I probably whine the most, and I dont whine nearly as much as anyone on the internet. You say you cant avoid Kholer’s one-shot attack, as he pulls you to him. Well, here’s how the attack works, in detail. He begins by raising his sword arm and pointing his sword to the sky, all while emitting a yellow light. Then he lowers his arm and fires a scorpion wire at every single party member. If he doesnt have line of sight before he launches the wire, he wont shoot it. Once the wire is in the air, you can very easily press V to dodge it, once you get the hang of it, meaning you dont get pulled. Or, you could pop a stability skill, which means it wont pull you regardless. Or bring a guardian friend. They can give stability to an entire group. And/or protection, or aegis. Here’s my build, that you should try out.

0 Strength
10 arms
10 defense
30 tactics
20 discipline

in AC expo, since you have so much trouble with kohler, run longbow/greatsword. its what I do. pull kholer and drag him back down to the entrance of his room, where you kill the flame traps. His adds will deaggro by the time you get there. If the troll event is up, GG, troll kills him for you while you watch. Otherwise, Kholer dies quick as long as you can dodge his wire. if you run 6/6 rune of the soldier like I do, your shouts will not only heal thanks to traits, but cleanse. Shake it Off will literally cleanse two abilities from your entire team, and heal them upwards of 1500 each. (with no healing power). Use balanced stance for stability. Bring warbanner to mass rez your team in case they missed a dodge. Warriors are great for that fight, and im definitely not full of myself.

Also, mace/shield doesnt do anything? REALLY? In dungeons if gives you not one, not two, but THREE interrupts! 2 stuns and a daze! AND a 5 second grace period of blocking EVERYTHING!

In pvp, TWO STUNS AND A DAZE! One of the stuns even has a mini gap-closer! What the hell man? It does nothing? AND you can make its block move reflect projectiles for PVP! THATS GOOD!

Another thing for the Kholer fight, if your team uses immobilizes at the right times, he cant do his leap attack to you guys either. He can literally be made useless the entire fight.

I would like nothing more than to “Learn To Play”. But it would help me, and EVERYONE who is having troubles, if the game made more of an effort to teach us how to play properly. The only tip given by the game covering ANYTHING that we should apparently know for these dungeons to work for us is “Combos are things that happen when you do a finisher through a field”, and that’s it.

No mention of “maybe you should be level 60 or so before trying this”. No mention of “it is advised that you adjust your spec in favour of survival before entering”. No mention of anything like that. Maybe we do need to learn to play, but don’t yell at us for going into a dungeon, getting owned, and complaining about the difficulty. You can yell “It’s a different set of rules in dungeons” all thekittenday, and that’s fine, but do remember that NOTHING IN-GAME TOLD US THESE BLOODY NEW RULES.

Like I said before, a tutorial dungeon before AC which teaches newbies the finer points of team and combo play would be the best way to solve this. That way first time dungeoneers have at least a CHANCE to survive past the first lot of trash in AC.

Or, in a sentence: yes, we suck. But the game didn’t try very hard in educating us how to not suck.

MiloSaysRelax.1597:

I would like nothing more than to “Learn To Play”. But it would help me, and EVERYONE who is having troubles, if the game made more of an effort to teach us how to play properly. The only tip given by the game covering ANYTHING that we should apparently know for these dungeons to work for us is “Combos are things that happen when you do a finisher through a field”, and that’s it.

No mention of “maybe you should be level 60 or so before trying this”. No mention of “it is advised that you adjust your spec in favour of survival before entering”. No mention of anything like that. Maybe we do need to learn to play, but don’t yell at us for going into a dungeon, getting owned, and complaining about the difficulty. You can yell “It’s a different set of rules in dungeons” all thekittenday, and that’s fine, but do remember that NOTHING IN-GAME TOLD US THESE BLOODY NEW RULES.

Like I said before, a tutorial dungeon before AC which teaches newbies the finer points of team and combo play would be the best way to solve this. That way first time dungeoneers have at least a CHANCE to survive past the first lot of trash in AC.

What mmo tells you how to play it? Sure, tooltips in this game need to be way more clear, but no game walks you through anything holding your hand. No good game anyways. Its common sense to want to be survivable. Give this game a month or two, and guides will start popping up like they do for every other game. Then you can have your hand held.

Navok.4537:

Admittedly I have only been inside the first two dungeons as my friends are too low for anything else, but from what I have seen I’m inclined to agree with you. Dungeons feel like a chaotic zergfest designed to include running back into battle from a waypoint, and I am very disappointed thus far.

And you’ve only been in story mode

I’m sure you can’t wait to enter those lvl 80 exploration mode dungeons, where you spend 4hours clearing trash mobs to finaly reach a boss that drops 2 blue items an 50 copper.

Buff the farmable explorables (CoF speed runs) to be in line with the other explorables. Then increase the actual token reward and maybe loot drops. My 2 cents

The “difficult” explorables are challenging, fun, and have a feel of adventure to it, but the rewards seems minuscule compared to the effort put forth.

Darion Mallaven.9650:

Kryil.6045:

Dungeons start being ok as soon as guys STOP thinking their 20 year experience does help you at all in GW2.
This system requires a good teamwork, tactics and stuff.
Something that most MMOs are heavily lacking due to heaving one part removed by the tank/heal/dd groups.

That’s exactly why this design fails. Because there is noone who can actively tank for a sustained amount of time and there is noone who can keep heals up sufficiently enough.

That said, even a warrior tank/guardian tank can get one shotted due to the lack of proper defensive abilities that is actually required to take on a multitude of mobs at the same time.

In the first two dungeons, there are just simply way too many mobs in one location with no way around them. Take CM Explore mode as an example. You’ve got really tight quarter combat for about 90% of the time. In those tight quarters, you’ve got no chance when there are 10 mobs swarming you, not to mention the bugs connected to certain bosses and other ranged mobs in there.

The design is clearly flawed and i’m not talking from a wow player’s perspective but from a neutral standpoint here.

The holy trinity has worked for all other mmorpgs, and what this new system that gives us no dedicated tank/healer/dps actually does, is showing us why a holy trinity is needed.

The threat tables are just plain ridiculous as well.

In short, dungeon design = No control, just complete and utter chaos.

Taunts for everyone, or redesign the entire combat system. Plain and simple.

I’ve already had LOTS of friends quit the game due to the aforementioned reasons and i suspect a LOT more will do as well after they start getting into dungeons and seeing how much money they’re wasting on repair bills, by constantly being downed, and how little to no defensive abilities they have to make sure they stay alive.

Again, this was written from a neutral standpoint and i do believe i have some valid points here as well.

Im sorry, dont mean to taunt or upset you, but this kind of thinking is why many players are failing in the dungeons.

You are soo locked into the tank / healer / DPS mindset, that you literally can not think of anyway else.

And yet, there are quite a few players here who ARE finding away around it.

The trinity worked, but it was a crutch for most players. As well, other games had to re-define encounters to now HAVE to work with this system. This is a product spawned by recent MMOs.

And yet, going WAY far back before even EQ1 (which actually didnt really have tanks at the beginning. Warriors, Shadowknights, Paladins, etc. never had a dedicated taunt. Now they did have a skill that would make them fight the warrior, but it was hugely unreliable and not all that feasible).

But go back to paper D&D days. There were no roles of tanks, or dedicated healers, etc. While there were warriors and clerics, they were not defined into a single tank or healer role.

Combat encounters were all about tactics and teamwork, not lock a mob onto one character while everyone stands around to fight.

Someone even said it before: As an enemy, why would I wail on the person who has all the armor, when I can see the spell caster, who is more dangerous, back there. Why am I forced to fight this guy.

Lets put in reverse: What if in MMOs, as the players, you were forced to fight the huge HP and tanky mob and kill it before you can attack the casters or healers? Think about it, what if they made the mobs themselves use the trinity method on us players, and until the ‘tank’ mob died, the others were invulnerable?

You, as the player, would HATE this design.

Dungeons in GW2 now are like the fights in the D&D days.

And they are far from impossible. Im still getting amazed that players, who have comfortably now been locked in the trinity mindset, are now brain-dead to anything else.

Again, as I have repeated myself here, they are doable, and not only doable, are quite easy. How do I know? Cause I have done them, and can now do them easily after many trials, after having to understand what true teamwork and coordination is about, after un-learning what I have learned before when approaching these dungeons.

Until you become enlightened, so to speak, these dungeons will frustrate you, and you will not succeed.

I feel like I am an oracle, who has seen the truth, and now trying to get others to get past that veil over their eyes to see what I can only try describing here

The OP is correct. The “Story Mode” difficulty level of the 30 dungeon (AC) iskitten The degree of difficulty is on the level of endgame content and worst part about dungeons in this game, you get no great looking gear/weapons. If you’re going to make a dungeon this difficult, regardless of story mode or challenge mode, you need to have the NPC’s dropping lvl 30 armor sets that are kitten. Horrible dungeon design and I hope NCSoft take this thread and the relevant posts into consideration.

Xenith.2581:

The OP is correct. The “Story Mode” difficulty level of the 30 dungeon (AC) iskitten The degree of difficulty is on the level of endgame content and worst part about dungeons in this game, you get no great looking gear/weapons. If you’re going to make a dungeon this difficult, regardless of story mode or challenge mode, you need to have the NPC’s dropping lvl 30 armor sets that are kitten. Horrible dungeon design and I hope NCSoft take this thread and the relevant posts into consideration.

Still floored and amazed at players like you.

Ok, now im getting angry and frustrated. Not at the game, but at players like you and this kitten you spew.

And I hope NCSoft takes this thread and the relevant posts such as mine into consideration.

EDIT: Want to read about a successful AC dungeon run? (2 runs in fact), read it here

Xenith.2581:

The OP is correct. The “Story Mode” difficulty level of the 30 dungeon (AC) iskitten The degree of difficulty is on the level of endgame content and worst part about dungeons in this game, you get no great looking gear/weapons. If you’re going to make a dungeon this difficult, regardless of story mode or challenge mode, you need to have the NPC’s dropping lvl 30 armor sets that are kitten. Horrible dungeon design and I hope NCSoft take this thread and the relevant posts into consideration.

No he’s not.

Seriously, I agree with quite a number of other people in this thread, learn to play. Make strategies, figure out what works and what doesn’t, and don’t just expect to be able to roflmao stop your way through a dungeon in 30 minutes getting fat epic loots in return.

Well, this thread is one of the most self-righteous smug-a-thons I’ve seen in a while. I am impressed, cryers of “lp2”. Your experiences and collective creativity and insight are surely representative of the vast majority of players, who have never experienced anything like these dungeons, having been raised playing soft mmos and been given no indication by the pve in this very game of what was to come inside AC. The place where my friendly mailbox sent me a letter, instructing me to travel there with some friends to check it out! Therein lies the biggest problem with the instances in GW2. The difficulty is good overall, but there isn’t much consideration in-game for the transition, and the community’s consideration is writ large in this thread, if you felt compelled to post merely to insult others.

Consider the plight of the average player. They have played WoW, perhaps even raided. Maybe some SWTOR. Games palatable to the masses, very soft. And now they are playing GW2. Things are different. Your quests are regional, and somewhat amorphous, they are merely one avenue of progression and not the whole city. The more exciting part are the group dynamic events. You get in with other players and do tough stuff! You are taught that in order to be rewarded, you must do as much damage as possible. If you don’t do enough damage, you get little or nothing. This is the strongest PvE message the game sends. You’re finally getting the hang of your class, and just got your elite skill! You get a letter in the mail, come to Ascalon Catacombs, I’ll even show you where it is on the map! And what players find is a solid brick wall. It isn’t hard to see why people get discouraged. At first, I’m certain it does feel insurmountable.

I think more should be done to help players adjust to the demands of dungeons. Ascalon Catacombs story mode is the real weak link in the chain. As a trial-and-error learning session, it is excessively punishing and frustrating. The beginning of the learning curve needs to be more gentle. After that, it’s pretty much fine, except that the rewards are unimpressive.

tl;dr – AC story mode should be more forgiving, rewards should be either larger or flashier, people should be more understanding.

Orlandu.3781:

Well, this thread is one of the most self-righteous smug-a-thons I’ve seen in a while. I am impressed, cryers of “lp2”. Your experiences and collective creativity and insight are surely representative of the vast majority of players, who have never experienced anything like these dungeons, having been raised playing soft mmos and been given no indication by the pve in this very game of what was to come inside AC. The place where my friendly mailbox sent me a letter, instructing me to travel there with some friends to check it out! Therein lies the biggest problem with the instances in GW2. The difficulty is good overall, but there isn’t much consideration in-game for the transition, and the community’s consideration is writ large in this thread, if you felt compelled to post merely to insult others.

Consider the plight of the average player. They have played WoW, perhaps even raided. Maybe some SWTOR. Games palatable to the masses, very soft. And now they are playing GW2. Things are different. Your quests are regional, and somewhat amorphous, they are merely one avenue of progression and not the whole city. The more exciting part are the group dynamic events. You get in with other players and do tough stuff! You are taught that in order to be rewarded, you must do as much damage as possible. If you don’t do enough damage, you get little or nothing. This is the strongest PvE message the game sends. You’re finally getting the hang of your class, and just got your elite skill! You get a letter in the mail, come to Ascalon Catacombs, I’ll even show you where it is on the map! And what players find is a solid brick wall. It isn’t hard to see why people get discouraged. At first, I’m certain it does feel insurmountable.

I think more should be done to help players adjust to the demands of dungeons. Ascalon Catacombs story mode is the real weak link in the chain. As a trial-and-error learning session, it is excessively punishing and frustrating. The beginning of the learning curve needs to be more gentle. After that, it’s pretty much fine, except that the rewards are unimpressive.

tl;dr – AC story mode should be more forgiving, rewards should be either larger or flashier, people should be more understanding.

Sooo… basically in you believe the game should be dumbed down to appeal to the masses.

How about… no?

Imagine.8623:

Orlandu.3781:

Well, this thread is one of the most self-righteous smug-a-thons I’ve seen in a while. I am impressed, cryers of “lp2”. Your experiences and collective creativity and insight are surely representative of the vast majority of players, who have never experienced anything like these dungeons, having been raised playing soft mmos and been given no indication by the pve in this very game of what was to come inside AC. The place where my friendly mailbox sent me a letter, instructing me to travel there with some friends to check it out! Therein lies the biggest problem with the instances in GW2. The difficulty is good overall, but there isn’t much consideration in-game for the transition, and the community’s consideration is writ large in this thread, if you felt compelled to post merely to insult others.

Consider the plight of the average player. They have played WoW, perhaps even raided. Maybe some SWTOR. Games palatable to the masses, very soft. And now they are playing GW2. Things are different. Your quests are regional, and somewhat amorphous, they are merely one avenue of progression and not the whole city. The more exciting part are the group dynamic events. You get in with other players and do tough stuff! You are taught that in order to be rewarded, you must do as much damage as possible. If you don’t do enough damage, you get little or nothing. This is the strongest PvE message the game sends. You’re finally getting the hang of your class, and just got your elite skill! You get a letter in the mail, come to Ascalon Catacombs, I’ll even show you where it is on the map! And what players find is a solid brick wall. It isn’t hard to see why people get discouraged. At first, I’m certain it does feel insurmountable.

I think more should be done to help players adjust to the demands of dungeons. Ascalon Catacombs story mode is the real weak link in the chain. As a trial-and-error learning session, it is excessively punishing and frustrating. The beginning of the learning curve needs to be more gentle. After that, it’s pretty much fine, except that the rewards are unimpressive.

tl;dr – AC story mode should be more forgiving, rewards should be either larger or flashier, people should be more understanding.

Sooo… basically in you believe the game should be dumbed down to appeal to the masses.

How about… no?

If you had taken the time to read and think before posting a two line throwaway refutation, you may have noticed that I do not think the game should be dumbed down, unless the story mode of Ascalon Catacombs comprises your entire game experience, and not simply your entire straw man.

Orlandu.3781:

Well, this thread is one of the most self-righteous smug-a-thons I’ve seen in a while. I am impressed, cryers of “lp2”. Your experiences and collective creativity and insight are surely representative of the vast majority of players, who have never experienced anything like these dungeons, having been raised playing soft mmos and been given no indication by the pve in this very game of what was to come inside AC. The place where my friendly mailbox sent me a letter, instructing me to travel there with some friends to check it out! Therein lies the biggest problem with the instances in GW2. The difficulty is good overall, but there isn’t much consideration in-game for the transition, and the community’s consideration is writ large in this thread, if you felt compelled to post merely to insult others.

Consider the plight of the average player. They have played WoW, perhaps even raided. Maybe some SWTOR. Games palatable to the masses, very soft. And now they are playing GW2. Things are different. Your quests are regional, and somewhat amorphous, they are merely one avenue of progression and not the whole city. The more exciting part are the group dynamic events. You get in with other players and do tough stuff! You are taught that in order to be rewarded, you must do as much damage as possible. If you don’t do enough damage, you get little or nothing. This is the strongest PvE message the game sends. You’re finally getting the hang of your class, and just got your elite skill! You get a letter in the mail, come to Ascalon Catacombs, I’ll even show you where it is on the map! And what players find is a solid brick wall. It isn’t hard to see why people get discouraged. At first, I’m certain it does feel insurmountable.

I think more should be done to help players adjust to the demands of dungeons. Ascalon Catacombs story mode is the real weak link in the chain. As a trial-and-error learning session, it is excessively punishing and frustrating. The beginning of the learning curve needs to be more gentle. After that, it’s pretty much fine, except that the rewards are unimpressive.

tl;dr – AC story mode should be more forgiving, rewards should be either larger or flashier, people should be more understanding.

Heya, not to argue here.

I actually agree with you on that the Story modes maybe could be tweaked a little bit simpler. To me, those modes should be your average dungeon (dont remove the difficulty, just let it be a little more forgiving)

And your right if I have been insulting to others. For which I apologize. Not to excuse my actions, I am frustrated at some of these posts.

I dont really know how I can nicely suggest a “um, sir player, not to be rude here, but it really is an issue of learning to play”.

Theres playing, and then really learning how to play. I dont know how simple I can make it, and no matter how I say it, its going to come across as offensive. But just because something is offensive doesnt mean its less true =/

Imagine.8623:

Orlandu.3781:

Well, this thread is one of the most self-righteous smug-a-thons I’ve seen in a while. I am impressed, cryers of “lp2”. Your experiences and collective creativity and insight are surely representative of the vast majority of players, who have never experienced anything like these dungeons, having been raised playing soft mmos and been given no indication by the pve in this very game of what was to come inside AC. The place where my friendly mailbox sent me a letter, instructing me to travel there with some friends to check it out! Therein lies the biggest problem with the instances in GW2. The difficulty is good overall, but there isn’t much consideration in-game for the transition, and the community’s consideration is writ large in this thread, if you felt compelled to post merely to insult others.

Consider the plight of the average player. They have played WoW, perhaps even raided. Maybe some SWTOR. Games palatable to the masses, very soft. And now they are playing GW2. Things are different. Your quests are regional, and somewhat amorphous, they are merely one avenue of progression and not the whole city. The more exciting part are the group dynamic events. You get in with other players and do tough stuff! You are taught that in order to be rewarded, you must do as much damage as possible. If you don’t do enough damage, you get little or nothing. This is the strongest PvE message the game sends. You’re finally getting the hang of your class, and just got your elite skill! You get a letter in the mail, come to Ascalon Catacombs, I’ll even show you where it is on the map! And what players find is a solid brick wall. It isn’t hard to see why people get discouraged. At first, I’m certain it does feel insurmountable.

I think more should be done to help players adjust to the demands of dungeons. Ascalon Catacombs story mode is the real weak link in the chain. As a trial-and-error learning session, it is excessively punishing and frustrating. The beginning of the learning curve needs to be more gentle. After that, it’s pretty much fine, except that the rewards are unimpressive.

tl;dr – AC story mode should be more forgiving, rewards should be either larger or flashier, people should be more understanding.

Sooo… basically in you believe the game should be dumbed down to appeal to the masses.

How about… no?

Actually, the way I read his post was that he wasnt calling for a dungeon nerf, just commenting on some of the player’s, who have beaten these dungeons, attitudes

I 100% agree. The difficulty is fine but the drops are ridiculous, really makes people not want to ever do dungeons..and than what? They’re missing out on some great content the developers took time to make.. FIX DUNGEONS ASAP

HellHound.5480:

Heya, not to argue here.

I actually agree with you on that the Story modes maybe could be tweaked a little bit simpler. To me, those modes should be your average dungeon (dont remove the difficulty, just let it be a little more forgiving)

And your right if I have been insulting to others. For which I apologize. Not to excuse my actions, I am frustrated at some of these posts.

I dont really know how I can nicely suggest a “um, sir player, not to be rude here, but it really is an issue of learning to play”.

Theres playing, and then really learning how to play. I dont know how simple I can make it, and no matter how I say it, its going to come across as offensive. But just because something is offensive doesnt mean its less true =/

I really appreciate the issue, and yeah, a great part of the issue is that people just don’t know what to do. So I think we’re in agreement that the first one or maybe two story modes should be a good place to figure the answers out. The complaints about exploration mode difficulty are less valid, I think. At that point, when you are launching into exploration mode, you can be expected to understand what you’re getting into, and that you’re probably going to die a lot as you make progress. But for that, something should be done to improve reward. Thanks for posting back.

Orlandu.3781:

HellHound.5480:

Heya, not to argue here.

I actually agree with you on that the Story modes maybe could be tweaked a little bit simpler. To me, those modes should be your average dungeon (dont remove the difficulty, just let it be a little more forgiving)

And your right if I have been insulting to others. For which I apologize. Not to excuse my actions, I am frustrated at some of these posts.

I dont really know how I can nicely suggest a “um, sir player, not to be rude here, but it really is an issue of learning to play”.

Theres playing, and then really learning how to play. I dont know how simple I can make it, and no matter how I say it, its going to come across as offensive. But just because something is offensive doesnt mean its less true =/

I really appreciate the issue, and yeah, a great part of the issue is that people just don’t know what to do. So I think we’re in agreement that the first one or maybe two story modes should be a good place to figure the answers out. The complaints about exploration mode difficulty are less valid, I think. At that point, when you are launching into exploration mode, you can be expected to understand what you’re getting into, and that you’re probably going to die a lot as you make progress. But for that, something should be done to improve reward. Thanks for posting back.

I also appreciate your replying as well. Agree on explore mode, those are the optional hard modes, and as such should feel hard. I feel they are the game’s answer to a true raid (5-man raid?)

But thinking about it more, I do agree on what you say about story mode, including the first couple instances, to be more forgiving for players. I dont them to be trivial, but more as a stepping stone, and a learning process for players.

And while I do enjoy the other rewards for a properly cleared explore dungeon (got 1+ gold, 120k XP, tokens), your correct also in that the drops, per-say, could improve. I dont want to see orange gear for every boss, but perhaps green gear, with the occasional yellow, and an guaranteed yellow with the occasional rare orange for the end boss. Remove the blues in other words, and keep all the other rewards the same.

once you get the hang of it, even explorable dungeons are a breeze.

The problem with most people is you want 5 pieces of rare armor or some crap with the chance of an exotic with huge amounts of silver and karma for running an explorable mode. Wake up, get this WOW sense of mind out of your brains or what ever past mmo’s you played, this is GW2 they are doing it different and working on making stuff in their eyes and many of the players eyes good rewards and harder challenges.

I’ve got a friend who refuses to play dungeons with us anymore — I suspect because he views the wipefests as continual failure. I’m not sure why ArenaNet decided this was a good design, when all of the other pieces of this game are brilliant.

Nobody in my group wants to replay dungeons that they had to slam their heads against while paying for extensive repairs and constantly running back to the boss fights… for minimal loot. Let alone replay them hundreds of times for decent gear.

I now think I understand why there are no dungeons before level 30: ArenaNet knew we would need an entire compliment of skills and good headway into the trait system to even stand a chance.

Dungeons are easily the most disappointing aspect of this game.

I’ve read through this entire thread so far and it’s been quite the humbling experience. I ran AC story mode for the first time the other night not really knowing anything about it with a group of friends and we basically death-zerged it, which was frustrating and unrewarding. Last night I ran CM story mode for the first time and it was easier, except none of us in the PUG had ever run it before so we spent a bit of time wandering around being lost, which was kinda funny.

When I saw the title of this thread, I figured it would be full of complaints on the one side and lol-l2p-nub-umadbro on the other side. But went ahead and read it anyway in case I found some gems of real wisdom, because even though I was frustrated, I also knew that the dungeons were “working as intended” and I’ve seen video footage of ArenaNet devs running them with members of the press and such, and essentially saying as much (sorry no links, just a memory in my head at this point).

I am… slowly… figuring this GW2 thing out and it is, indeed, totally different than everything I’ve learned from previous games and their mechanics. Learn to dodge, yes, but it’s more than that. Watching what the mob is doing and reacting with proper timing is key (difficult in a particle effects storm, granted). Knowing and using combo fields, weapon choices, and abilities that benefit the group is key, as others have said. I wasn’t doing any of these things except activating warbanner. The first time you run a dungeon, you don’t know what the mobs are going to do because you’ve never seen them before, so, granted, that’s difficult as well.

But really gives me hope is all the people in this thread who have run them successfully and are not just coming in here and laughing at everyone else who’s having a hard time, but are being truly helpful. Your numbers are proof enough against the complaints, but you’ve also provided great information to help those of us who are struggling figure it out. So, thank you.

biggs.4702:

I’ve read through this entire thread so far and it’s been quite the humbling experience. I ran AC story mode for the first time the other night not really knowing anything about it with a group of friends and we basically death-zerged it, which was frustrating and unrewarding. Last night I ran CM story mode for the first time and it was easier, except none of us in the PUG had ever run it before so we spent a bit of time wandering around being lost, which was kinda funny.

When I saw the title of this thread, I figured it would be full of complaints on the one side and lol-l2p-nub-umadbro on the other side. But went ahead and read it anyway in case I found some gems of real wisdom, because even though I was frustrated, I also knew that the dungeons were “working as intended” and I’ve seen video footage of ArenaNet devs running them with members of the press and such, and essentially saying as much (sorry no links, just a memory in my head at this point).

I am… slowly… figuring this GW2 thing out and it is, indeed, totally different than everything I’ve learned from previous games and their mechanics. Learn to dodge, yes, but it’s more than that. Watching what the mob is doing and reacting with proper timing is key (difficult in a particle effects storm, granted). Knowing and using combo fields, weapon choices, and abilities that benefit the group is key, as others have said. I wasn’t doing any of these things except activating warbanner. The first time you run a dungeon, you don’t know what the mobs are going to do because you’ve never seen them before, so, granted, that’s difficult as well.

But really gives me hope is all the people in this thread who have run them successfully and are not just coming in here and laughing at everyone else who’s having a hard time, but are being truly helpful. Your numbers are proof enough against the complaints, but you’ve also provided great information to help those of us who are struggling figure it out. So, thank you.

It is rough the first few times, and I definitely feel you on the subject of being totally lost. But it does get better! There’s no real 100% way to explain how to improve success, given the massive variety of class/weapons/spec/players, but the advice mentioned early in this thread is the best I can think of; treat dungeons like a very dangerous pvp encounter. That mindset will probably help more than anything else, but it is tough to slog through the first few times, getting the trial-and-error phase out of the way. Be strong! Remember Ascalon!

biggs.4702:

I’ve read through this entire thread so far and it’s been quite the humbling experience. I ran AC story mode for the first time the other night not really knowing anything about it with a group of friends and we basically death-zerged it, which was frustrating and unrewarding. Last night I ran CM story mode for the first time and it was easier, except none of us in the PUG had ever run it before so we spent a bit of time wandering around being lost, which was kinda funny.

When I saw the title of this thread, I figured it would be full of complaints on the one side and lol-l2p-nub-umadbro on the other side. But went ahead and read it anyway in case I found some gems of real wisdom, because even though I was frustrated, I also knew that the dungeons were “working as intended” and I’ve seen video footage of ArenaNet devs running them with members of the press and such, and essentially saying as much (sorry no links, just a memory in my head at this point).

I am… slowly… figuring this GW2 thing out and it is, indeed, totally different than everything I’ve learned from previous games and their mechanics. Learn to dodge, yes, but it’s more than that. Watching what the mob is doing and reacting with proper timing is key (difficult in a particle effects storm, granted). Knowing and using combo fields, weapon choices, and abilities that benefit the group is key, as others have said. I wasn’t doing any of these things except activating warbanner. The first time you run a dungeon, you don’t know what the mobs are going to do because you’ve never seen them before, so, granted, that’s difficult as well.

But really gives me hope is all the people in this thread who have run them successfully and are not just coming in here and laughing at everyone else who’s having a hard time, but are being truly helpful. Your numbers are proof enough against the complaints, but you’ve also provided great information to help those of us who are struggling figure it out. So, thank you.

This post.. brings me a huge smile =D

Kryil.6045:

Dungeons start being ok as soon as guys STOP thinking their 20 year experience does help you at all in GW2.
This system requires a good teamwork, tactics and stuff.
Something that most MMOs are heavily lacking due to heaving one part removed by the tank/heal/dd groups.

A post from someone who has clearly not done an instance or only done a couple of the easier ones.

As for the post I have to agree. As it stands right now the effort for reward is simply not worth it. Personally I love them even if they are a tad broken. But I’m not playing for effort vs. reward. I’m doing them for the rediculous challenge they offer.