Guild Wars 2

I’ve been reading alot of people saying this change is good and now things matter when playing in dungeon and promoting teamwork and whatnot but what’s the point if you can’t get a team?

Let me further elaborate

Now we all know that on the internet some people are not courteous or patient, i’ve seen plenty of people ragequit dungeons because the dps wasn’t sufficient or we sucked or whatever. I’ve seen boss fights where we got killed one by one and had to run back but eventually we killed him and prevailed. It’s how i learned to kill Subject Alpha, by going back and back and try again.

But now there’s just one question that i’ll ask to everyone here:

Will YOU take a new player who’s never been in Arah or CoE in your team with the new system of wp’s in dungeons?

Or will you prefer an experienced player over the newbie?

If you choose the first option you’ll start seeing my point (hopefully).

Inexp players will get few groups willing to give them learning chances in dungeons and they will have to do with groups of newbies destined to endless wiping in dungeons filled with ragequits and lets admit is, arah isn’t a short dungeon.

I hope anet will consider this

Perhaps now people will bother guiding other people, asking help and/or figuring out better tactics instead just throwing them over and over against bosses hopefully getting it done.

NO i won t …
Why? i ever opposed to this elitist system…..
Despite i am a decent dungeon player (i almost play only dugeons/fotm).

IT will be quite the opposite Wethospu . Old players will run like hell instead of taking newbies with them.

The answer is the same, as it would be before this patch.
Everyone will prefer an experienced player over an inexperienced one. That’s how humankind generally works, it’s not only games and dungeons. So it shouldn’t be surprising answer. Our attitude toward the newcomer solely depends on our own manners and the attitude displayed by the beginner.

Regarding the new players, I do take newcomers and I already spent uncountable many hours, wrote zillion shorter and logner guides on the mechanics in every single dungeon. At some point it can get tiring. The game has been released around half year ago, on the begining it could be hard to find any guides, thus many players had to learn the mechanics harsh way. These days, however, you can find all the tutorials, hints and tips, even videos on youtube. The dungeons have been nerfed quite much, so they are much easier too.

So, if a player has a serious troubles in dungeons, should he expect other players to carry him, or should he do a little bit of research and learn everything he needs to be able to pull his weight in the dungeon?

Waypoints have nothing to do with the issue.

On a side note, I still take new players and still keep explaining all the details, if needed. However, if a newbie is really bad and doesn’t pick the pace fast enough (and I am not really the “gogogog pr0 spd clers plox” type), I will bid him farewell after 1 path in the dungeon. If the beginner is a nice person and has no troubles to adapt to new envionment, I don’t mind giving him a ride to all the dungeon paths.

Actually, I think that overall, not much will change with most player’s attitudes towards others in PUGs.

Those who thoughtfully and kindly explain basic strats will continue to do so. People who go above and beyond and make helpful videos (thanks Wethospu o_o)-b) will most likely continue to do so because they enjoy doing that.

People who want experienced players only will probably continue to demand experienced players only on gw2lfg.

Personally, I for one am always down to help someone out so long as they’re willing to keep an open mind for learning. And I’m always willing to learn something new from those much more experienced than I, should that opportunity arise.

While I agree it should be something Anet should consider, I think we as players need to take responsibility for ourselves and work on building each other up instead of always tearing each other down. But that’s just my personal opinion.

marika.3165:

IT will be quite the opposite Wethospu . Old players will run like hell instead of taking newbies with them.

That was already the case. Why would anyone take a new guy with them?

If you are a new guy you will be much bigger asset to your team if you ask for tips and suggestions instead of mindlessly throwing yourself against the boss.

I’m pretty worried about this too. I realized after doing several runs of AC that I just suck out loud at Dungeons and this new change has me feeling like I just might have to never try a dungeon again. I do really want the COF armor for my Charr Warrior (Because they look really cool in COF Armor) so I’m going to try a different approach this time. I realize I sucked at AC because I had no idea what I was doing. I joined a public group and just tried to follow their lead, I was able to get enough tokens to get a Sword/Shield for my Guardian, but it wasn’t fun at all for me.

This time, I’m going to try watching videos of the paths before I ever go in and reading strategy guides for each path on the Wiki. I’m not sure if this change will exclude less experienced players or not, but ultimately I think it will. I’m willing to do more research and try to get better, but I honestly don’t think most people will. With this new system, people are only going to want the best players they can get and ultimately that will cause newer players to filter away from dungeons leaving only the most skilled of players that do them. I’m going to try and do it right though and learn what I’m doing and see if I can become a better dungeon player, but I’ll admit that the new change has me wondering if maybe I would be better off finding something else to do.

No one wants to be that ‘one guy’ that hinders his/her team. Before, if I died, I would have to respawn, repair and make my way back.. the punishment was on me. Now I cost my whole team and that honestly kind of sucks.

To me, mastery is boring. No one cares about the story where everything goes perfectly. It’s boring. I prefer worse players, as long as they’re good people and try. I did CoF Path 2 with a crappy group and it took about 25 minutes to get it right. It took a lot of work from me. I did it again with an experienced group and we did it flawlessly the first time.

Which do I prefer? The nub group all the way. The more desperate the situation the better. The harder it is to just stay alive and get people up, the better. It makes my character a hero in the dungeon, instead of just another part of the team.

I’ll take a nooby over an elite player in dungeons anyday.

tPvP is a different story.

Apart from a popquiz how will you determine an experienced player from one that isn’t. Experience != Skill. An observant player can do fights without knowing them beforehand as that falls under skill. An unskilled person of course can be detrimental to the group even with experience.

The Gates Assassin.9827:

To me, mastery is boring. No one cares about the story where everything goes perfectly. It’s boring. I prefer worse players, as long as they’re good people and try. I did CoF Path 2 with a crappy group and it took about 25 minutes to get it right. It took a lot of work from me. I did it again with an experienced group and we did it flawlessly the first time.

Which do I prefer? The nub group all the way. The more desperate the situation the better. The harder it is to just stay alive and get people up, the better. It makes my character a hero in the dungeon, instead of just another part of the team.

I’ll take a nooby over an elite player in dungeons anyday.

tPvP is a different story.

Kudos to you. As an inexperienced player who is really trying to improve I can say that I wish more people were like you. I have had mixed results doing dungeons, a few good people like you and a few that I have no desire to travel with again. Most n00b’s will gladly listen to experienced players and do what they’re told, personally I’m more then happy to take advice and instruction from people that know what they’re doing.

The players like you make players like me better, so thanks for that.

Good on you for having a spirit to be better even before joining the dungeon, Darth Llama!

While I agree that no one wants to be that ‘one guy’, just remember that there are people out there willing to also step up and be a Teammate and help res you because they know you’d do the same for them.

If you do a gw2lfg post, maybe just ask for casuals so that people won’t freak out on you if you do make a few mistakes.

DigitalKirin.9714:

Good on you for having a spirit to be better even before joining the dungeon, Darth Llama!

While I agree that no one wants to be that ‘one guy’, just remember that there are people out there willing to also step up and be a Teammate and help res you because they know you’d do the same for them.

If you do a gw2lfg post, maybe just ask for casuals so that people won’t freak out on you if you do make a few mistakes.

Good advice, thanks.

When I was doing AC, I didn’t communicate to my party that I was new and that was on me. I was afraid that if I told them I was new that they would kick me which was perhaps an unfair assumption on my part. This time I’m going to do the research first and tell my team that I’m new, but that I studied what to do. I’m sure if I can get with a couple groups willing to work with me I can get it down. I’m generally pretty good at Video Games, just need some practice. I do use gw2lfg, I’ll just be more forthright about my experience level when I decide to try AC (waiting until I hit level 80.)

Yes I will, I’d rather take a new player who’s willing to use teamwork than an “experienced” path farmer who glitches, exploits (even though it might be slower) and skips past everything. I’ve never actually had ANY trouble on Arah taking newbros in, in fact I still remember when I ran P1 for the first time – none of us had done it before and two of us had never done arah before. We didn’t know what we could skip or how we could glitch, so we avoided doing it. It was great fun, felt like dungeons should be.

I’d be allowing people to join me, but I’m just one person, not a whole party.

Well I feel sorry for those people coming into the game now, or any alts that get made. They’ll never see that Lvl 35 dungeon until hitting 80.

Dungeon Design ftw.

i agree a lot with what razzy said. i have been the inexperienced newbie myself, but i told the groups i went in with that i hadnt done whichever dungeon i was trying for the first time each time, and each time those groups would explain the tricky bits as we went along, which helped a ton

i think if ppl are upfront and let their group know ahead of time that they may need some patience, that goes a long ways. i have been willing to help out some first timers several times.

i also think that newbs need to understand that having 3 or 4 inexperienced ppl in a group is likely drain the patience of the whole group. i try and limit the dungeon newbies to 2 in a group for sanity sake

I’ve done just about every dungeon except for SE (have not done any paths), and only 1 path in ARAH (and even then I’ve only done it once), and I still ask questions when I do every dungeon. Don’t get me wrong, I generally know what I’m doing, but it never hurts to be 100% right then, half kitten it and screw up and wipe the whole group. It’s usually a quick questions like in AC Dretha “whats the kill order again”, or “killing or running?” in TA, etc.

Those kind of questions, in my opinion are fine. If you’re completely new though, you need to be upfront as soon as you join so the group can explain. You need to hang back and only fight what’s targetted/what the group is fighting.

Darth Llama.9217:

I’m pretty worried about this too. I realized after doing several runs of AC that I just suck out loud at Dungeons and this new change has me feeling like I just might have to never try a dungeon again. I do really want the COF armor for my Charr Warrior (Because they look really cool in COF Armor) so I’m going to try a different approach this time. I realize I sucked at AC because I had no idea what I was doing. I joined a public group and just tried to follow their lead, I was able to get enough tokens to get a Sword/Shield for my Guardian, but it wasn’t fun at all for me.

This time, I’m going to try watching videos of the paths before I ever go in and reading strategy guides for each path on the Wiki. I’m not sure if this change will exclude less experienced players or not, but ultimately I think it will. I’m willing to do more research and try to get better, but I honestly don’t think most people will. With this new system, people are only going to want the best players they can get and ultimately that will cause newer players to filter away from dungeons leaving only the most skilled of players that do them. I’m going to try and do it right though and learn what I’m doing and see if I can become a better dungeon player, but I’ll admit that the new change has me wondering if maybe I would be better off finding something else to do.

No one wants to be that ‘one guy’ that hinders his/her team. Before, if I died, I would have to respawn, repair and make my way back.. the punishment was on me. Now I cost my whole team and that honestly kind of sucks.

If you’re ever doing AC (or anything in general) don’t be afraid to ask questions before a boss. Everyone was a noob once, and lots of people have experience with a number of different classes at this point. Most would be glad to help you or give you a tip or two if asked.

Personally, I love to take new players into dungeons (AC in particular because I view it as the learning dungeon). It gives me a chance to improve my support skills (using skills that save the whole team from damaging attacks instead of just myself) and helps build the dialog over the course of the dungeon. Group games are WAY more fun if you actually acknowledge that you’re in a group and communicate!

Been guiding plenty of new players through the TA paths and more, my conclusion is that a good player will preform well no matter. As long as he knows what to expect and what to look for it’s usually not a problem.
I always ask if there are any first-timers and if they are: it’s easy to give some quick hints on things. Takes you 5 seconds to type it out.
Happened more then once that someone claiming to have done the path 100 times do worse then the new guy. So not knowing the dungeon and not knowing your class is not the same thing and doesn’t have to go hand in hand.

I’ll do what I’ve been doing prior to Operation: Union. Taking folks that are willing to learn the dungeons not abusing the stupid cheap mechanics etc.

Those unwilling to learn will be in a world of troll, those that want to learn I will teach them.

Running dungeons since forever. Heck definitely not as good as Weth yet but be pretty interesting to be able to get there. Just not to keen on using the GS all the time.

I will still take inexperienced players, but usually only guildies. I rarely run with PuGs as they terrify me, so I don’t run into some of these issues very regularly.
The best option I can give you, if you’re afraid of being left behind from your newness, is to get a guild. I had some painful runs with guildies when they were new, but we kept going with them and now they’re some of my favorite dungeon groups. Your guild mates are more likely to stand you then some random people from gw2lfg.

Although, I did do some PuGs the other day for HotW and we had someone come in, let us know they were knew, and we were all like…okay so what? I think they rarely downed. Just be smart.

I will take newbies. Already done so yesterday running AC and CM. Today I’ll be searching for 2 randoms for CoE. When writing an lfg I normally state “no skipping, new players are welcome”. And new players tend to join. If you explain the situation they tend to perform perfectly well as well.
Why? Because I’ve learned that a run with new players can be more fun. They don’t expect perfection and don’t rage if someone dies once or twice.

A yup.
I believe working with people still learning the ropes is one of the few things around that can get you to push yourself towards the skill ceiling. I’ve basically said as much before this update ever came around, and I still feel that way.

Though it’s worth noting, people who are new to the game aren’t always learning the ropes exactly. I’ve met a few newbies that’ve really put my old lady reflexes to shame.

actually i would properly bring more new players then ever since if you HAVE to do it and people can’t exploit like crazy, then you don’t get stuck in a situation where the new players are useless bagage which are ONLY there becouse they can exploit and not becouse they actually got the skill lvl to be there and just need the tactics.

the whole issue of zerging is that people doesn’t learn how to play at all, they simply just zerg and win so there is no need for them to ever perfect their skills…
personally i used quite some time on kholar just dodging and learning it, then coe doing the same and lastly immense amount of time on lupi learning to dodge correctly etc. its a learning process, and if you never get to learn how to dodge on easy mobs which can’t really hurt you (actually i know some that started out simply with lvl 5 mobs untill they got a hang of what dodging and moving/kiting was all about in gw2 since its very different from normal mmo’s) then fighting something where 1 misdodge can/will kill you and set your whole team in a bad situation is not durable without extreme frustration.

the whole idea that you could even zerg in the first place is just unheard in mmo’s since its so extremely abusable and the dev which allowed this in the first place … kitten he is stupid and just clueless for what mmo’s and gamers are in general.
the same is said about the whole exploiting issue which have brought the game to a state where it will suffer severely and maybe even die as they try to correct these extreme oversights.

edit:
btw what i hear you saying is that noobies which doesnt know how to dodge won’t be taken to arah becouse they can’t zerg right?
question: wtf where they doing in arah in the first place if they haven’t learn to dodge basic red circle’s on the ground? if they do not have the ability to dodge so they just need the tactic and maybe a few tries to get basic right then they got no right to even enter arah and they should train their skills in easier dungeons and not wasted the time of people that actually “trained for arah”…. yes lupi is a kitten to dodge, but if you can dodge all bosses in every other dungeon you can diffinately learn to dodge correctly on lupi within a few tries and all the other dungeons is easier soo you can always go train there is your skills are just way off and you don’t know people that will hard carry you.

and at the end, i mean how much worse can it get then it already is? -.- i mean seriously 4/5 runs of arah we ended up 2 manning lupi becouse every one else got instant killed when they arrived after their respawn, the skill lvl of people are petheticly low due to the nature of the exploiting community.. i can’t mention a single mmo with a community that got a lower rl skill lvl then gw2(which i have played.) as it is right now -.-

My numerous experiences in dealing w/ PUG (I have 2 toons with fully equipped exotics armors & weapons from dungeons tokens) could be condensed into this anecdotal observation:
1) Number of thoughtful & kindness experience players is very rare. On a scale 1-10 of occurence, they are around 1.
2) Number of players with minimum skill and minimum knowledge, acting on their own and caused hardship to a whole party is rare but more than #1. On a scale 1-10, they are about 2-3.
3) Number of elitists, abrasive players is also more than # 2. On a scale 1-10, they are about 3-4. They only cause trouble if somehow they mix in with group 5.
4) Number of experienced players skill is average and above, patience and not abrasive, willing to explain when asked is about the same as #3. Many of them are not assertive when 2,3,4 & 5 mixing together even the majority of their party comprised of group 4 & 5.
5) Number of inexperienced players, some skills, willing to learn, nice people and will adapt and have a better performance if the run is repeated, is in overwhelming quantity. Many of them are shy, not communicative & assertive. With guidance, they will perform well. On a scale 1-10, they are around 6-7.

What people need to learn is matching the wrong group together could result a lasting impression on each other, so I recommend group 4 & 5 people advertise yourself correctly when looking for group, especially those in group 5. Say something like limited exp, but did homework and you will see your problem solved. For people in group 4, you have no problem in any group but if you are a party leader of a party filled in w/ players in group 5, please take control of your party. I would normally announce my rule when I’m a party leader running with my guild members & filled in such as

1) No skip or skip where (instructions followed)
2) Play together and don’t run ahead of your party.
3) Tips if possible if newbies are in the group.

Let group 2 & 3 play together because they deserve each other.
TL:DR: Don’t read it.

BTW, level of player is not an indication of player’s skill, but most often than not, a low level player (not an ALT) is mostly a player not familiar with their profession’s skill set. And I’ve also seen plenty of level 80s players playing like … ugh.