Guild Wars 2

I keep wondering this since Anet promised us they were moving way from this but know I wonder if FOTM, as good as it is, is just a modified endgame dungeon grind for stats so you can progress?

My argument is this. FOTM without agony could be considered a progression in skill solely rather than stats. Your stats don’t need to change but the difficulty will creating more of a challenge. While FOTM does do this it also requires you to “get lucky” to progress further into it. In order to test if you can handle more difficult content the dungeon creates barriers to entry not based on skill but the rng and finances. IE if you have access to massive funds you can progress your back piece faster thus minimizing you need for rings. However at some point you will need the rings which come from rng.

This creates an environment that does not account for skill as greatly as it does for ones capability to grind. This make the environment where grind>skill however it takes skill + grind + rng = Progress. Wouldn’t this make GW2 no different than any mmo before it?

Discuss. These are just my thoughts don’t lose your minds lol.

I think it’s actually worse than standard MMOs today. It’s straight up gated progression based on one stat (like WoW’s AQ40 days) that’s almost entirely based on RNG.

And not just any RNG, solo RNG. In other games there’s usually a choice to pass upgrades to people who actually need it. Here people can get nothing, or so much they pass it to alts.

I prefer RNG, guaranteed loot cheapens the feel of a game to me. Time is not a factor for me as I have no concept of time. I play the game because I have a group of people to play with. I don’t have an expectation for loot, just an expectation for my community to play together.

Not really feeling it. It’s possible to play around agony in the 10-19 bracket without needing resistance.

I’ll just be getting the infused backpiece that doesn’t require any T6 mats. Not much else to spend the tokens on besides obsidian shards, and saves T6 mats for my legendary.

Hobocop.1508:

Not really feeling it. It’s possible to play around agony in the 10-19 bracket without needing resistance.

I’ll just be getting the infused backpiece that doesn’t require any T6 mats. Not much else to spend the tokens on besides obsidian shards, and saves T6 mats for my legendary.

I understand that logic. However the challenge of higher ranks past that (say 20+) still seems to be gated. Now if the only difference 20+ was that agony hits harder than I would argue that you are right since content would effectively be the same. However mobs (trash, etc) do change and become more difficult to deal with.

Contrary to popular belief, FotM is designed to bring people fun, not grind.
If you don’t find FotM fun, don’t play it. If you don’t find repeating FotM 5 times a day, don’t do it.
If you find fun in doing one phase of FotM every other day with your constant party of friends or guildies, go down that route. If you find fun in grinding relics, grind them; if you don’t – don’t!

Since the only ‘grind’ you need is ‘required’ to advance within the same part of the game as the ‘grindy’ one, if you don’t enjoy FotM you don’t have to ever set foot there.
If you do enjoy it, you shouldn’t feel it’s grind.
Perfect design!

Not sure if you understand what “grind” really is.

TheGuy.3568:

Hobocop.1508:

Not really feeling it. It’s possible to play around agony in the 10-19 bracket without needing resistance.

I’ll just be getting the infused backpiece that doesn’t require any T6 mats. Not much else to spend the tokens on besides obsidian shards, and saves T6 mats for my legendary.

I understand that logic. However the challenge of higher ranks past that (say 20+) still seems to be gated. Now if the only difference 20+ was that agony hits harder than I would argue that you are right since content would effectively be the same. However mobs (trash, etc) do change and become more difficult to deal with.

And? Somehow I doubt that a couple of silly rings and a backpiece that result in a total of +30 to their primary statistic over equivalent exotics is going to make or break having to deal with those enemies.

drkn.3429:

Contrary to popular belief, FotM is designed to bring people fun, not grind.
If you don’t find FotM fun, don’t play it. If you don’t find repeating FotM 5 times a day, don’t do it.
If you find fun in doing one phase of FotM every other day with your constant party of friends or guildies, go down that route. If you find fun in grinding relics, grind them; if you don’t – don’t!

Since the only ‘grind’ you need is ‘required’ to advance within the same part of the game as the ‘grindy’ one, if you don’t enjoy FotM you don’t have to ever set foot there.
If you do enjoy it, you shouldn’t feel it’s grind.
Perfect design!

However the ascended gear there is attainable through no other means. If one wished to have max stats they would have no alternative than to farm FOTM. On another note not all stats are represented in the drops thus some builds will be at a disadvantage stat wise strictly from a number perspective whether they run FOTM or not.

I agree that FOTM is not required in the general sense however this is a moot point. You aren’t required to do any of the content. It is a game you aren’t required to do anything. Literally you are free to buy the game and never play it as it is your money. However if you want the best gear or to follow the most commonly accepted route of progression past leveling (ie gear) you are required to go to FOTM.

Veltoss.9135:

Not sure if you understand what “grind” really is.

If you mean comparative grind like EQ vs FFXI vs WoW in terms of difficulty where you define “grind” as a specific term described with a number value ie number of hours, number of attempts etc. Then there is no way for me to describe it in away that would be applicable to all mmo experiences held by each individual. However, “grind” as a general term (repeatable content that must be repeated in order to receive a reward item level or otherwise ) applies here just fine.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grinding_
Edit:

Hobocop.1508:

TheGuy.3568:

Hobocop.1508:

Not really feeling it. It’s possible to play around agony in the 10-19 bracket without needing resistance.

I’ll just be getting the infused backpiece that doesn’t require any T6 mats. Not much else to spend the tokens on besides obsidian shards, and saves T6 mats for my legendary.

I understand that logic. However the challenge of higher ranks past that (say 20+) still seems to be gated. Now if the only difference 20+ was that agony hits harder than I would argue that you are right since content would effectively be the same. However mobs (trash, etc) do change and become more difficult to deal with.

And? Somehow I doubt that a couple of silly rings and a backpiece that result in a total of +30 to their primary statistic over equivalent exotics is going to make or break having to deal with those enemies.

You missed my point. In order to take on those bigger challenges you much beat the bosses. If the content was the same across the board and agony being the only difference from level to level than content at level one would be just as challenging as content at level 20. However it isn’t the content gets progressively harder across the board from the boss to the trash. In order to under take that greater challenge you must progress past the boss. In order to progress past the boss you must progressively increase your resistant to agony. The armor has little to do with the trash but the gates to more difficult content ie the bosses.

It has nothing to do with the mobs just the bosses. Hope that clarifies my original comment.

And I’d be truly concerned if I haven’t already experienced every fractal several times already without needing agony resistance. In no way am I being denied the meat of the content because of my lack of ascended gear. What do I not get to have if I don’t have ascended gear?

Some unique weapon skins that I’m not even a fan of and ascended gear that already has agony resistance on it.

Whoop-de-doo.