Guild Wars 2

Hey folks -

A guildie and I took a bunch of newbies into AC the other day, and…it did not go well. With a few new people in a dungeon, you should expect a couple of wipes, but one irritating piece for us was that if Kholer summoned his adds before the party wipe they stick around and he summons two more at the start up of the fight.

That can’t be intentional, can it?

Kholer in general is pretty newbie-unfriendly. His dodge check would be a good learning tool, if 1) you could see shiney-blue Kohler’s wind-up at all among the shiney blue platform, shiney-blue effects and shiney-blue other ghosts; and 2) you weren’t forced to keep your camera focused on Kholer while fighting other mobs (which, with the camera targetting system, causes you to constantly and erroneously target Kholer). But having to pick off four or five adds at the start of the fight because you didn’t get the fight correct on the first try is awfully punishing for the first explorable dungeon of the game.

I’ve noticed the Champion Vine in Twilight Arbor does the same thing, and I can’t help but think it’s an unintentional after effect of changing the dungeon waypointing system. Do folks agree? Disagree?

tl;dr: After a wipe, Kholer starts the fight with four or more adds instead of the two he starts with normally, is this intentional?

Kholer is supposed to start with 2 adds, however, usually when I run the dungeon he doesn’t immediately summon more adds. If you are having problems with the adds I suggest grouping them up at the start and focusing them down (necros are the ones you really shouldn’t ignore since fear can mess up the dodge needed for Kholer). I don’t tend to have problems noticing the dodge (but I melee so there’s that) but stability/reflects work against it so maybe the group could use one of those skills when they see the windup such that people don’t need to get the exact dodge time down.

It’s intentional. They changed the entirety of AC, and along with it, Kholer’s adds. They’re now much easier to kill, but he’ll summon them throughout the fight.

As for TA’s Vine, it’s always been that way.

I doubt it’s intentional, and if it is, I can’t think of a single reason for making it like that. By now, ArenaNet should know that most players prefer skipping Kholer, so by making an optional fight harder after failing it once, makes people want to try out the optional content even less.

Before the AC patch, it generally wasn’t too difficult to convince a group to take out Kholer for some fast and easy loot, but now it’s a lot harder. Yes, for player who know how the fight goes, or are generally not sucky at the dungeon, the new Kholer is easier. For new people, or the average guy who does AC, the fight is a lot harder due to adds that keep spawning during the fight which make it harder to see what’s going on, and can wear down an unexperienced team. Then the issue with adds not disappearing after a failed encounter makes things only worse.
Personally, I like the new Kholer encounter, but it’s just too tough to handle for most PUGs now. Pre-patch you could at least lure him away from the adds, which made it easy for new players to learn to watch the charge-up for his spinning attack.

It is working as intended im sure, but i believe they didnt think about what would happen in case of a wipe. What happens is that he summons adds at the begining of the fight then every 25% after that. So if you wipe on him and he still has adds, and you re-engage him he will summon again because he has reset.

Had this happen to a party of newbies i was showing AC too. But all you need to do is isolate the adds and have someone kite Kholer down the stairs. AC is all about tactics now and not just powering through content. Its no harder than it was before, it just requires actual teamwork, like actually rezzing downed players before they die.

“AC is all about tactics now and not just powering through content. Its no harder than it was before, it just requires actual teamwork, like actually rezzing downed players before they die.”

Which might be true if it wasn’t harder to revive people in the new AC. The spider queen has a persistent wide aoe field. The gravelings knock down anyone moving to near a downed target.

For Kohler it would be sensible if the adds were removed when Kohler is out of combat and at full health. Yes the champion vine in Twilight Arbor should fully reset as well. There’s no good design reason to make these fights more difficult for players who already find these fights difficult enough to wipe.

To get past Kohler, make sure you eliminate the adds quickly before he summons more. Throughout GW2, players just damage things and trigger new waves of adds without ever learning fights. If your group can manage to stay in melee with Kohler your group will probably be able to keep the adds close and under control, kill Kohler and the adds faster, benefit from group skills, and spot Kohler’s animations more clearly for better defense.

Protip: Those adds are easily pulled. Anytime my group wipes on Kholer, I clean them up easily by using Necrotic Grasp on them one by one. Other classes have similar pulls. Hope that helps.

joemag.4975:

Protip: Those adds are easily pulled. Anytime my group wipes on Kholer, I clean them up easily by using Necrotic Grasp on them one by one. Other classes have similar pulls. Hope that helps.

If only groups were actually willing to give Kholer another try after the first wipe.

RagingDragon.9475:

It is working as intended im sure, but i believe they didnt think about what would happen in case of a wipe. What happens is that he summons adds at the begining of the fight then every 25% after that. So if you wipe on him and he still has adds, and you re-engage him he will summon again because he has reset.

Had this happen to a party of newbies i was showing AC too. But all you need to do is isolate the adds and have someone kite Kholer down the stairs. AC is all about tactics now and not just powering through content. Its no harder than it was before, it just requires actual teamwork, like actually rezzing downed players before they die.

Heh actually powering through was still easiest. The easiest run I’ve had was right after the patch with Guardian, Mesmer, Warrrior x3 :P

As for Kholer’s add they are definitely intentional.
“Additional ghostly allies will now join Kholer during his encounter.” from the February patch notes.

Khisanth.2948:

As for Kholer’s add they are definitely intentional.
“Additional ghostly allies will now join Kholer during his encounter.” from the February patch notes.

Added a tl;dr for folks like the above, who clearly missed the point of the initial post.

I see other people are running into Kholer’s large posse of adds after a party wipe, too. It’s a fairly annoying poke in the eye.