Is lying about LI worth it?
Don’t bother. You most likely wouldn’t like to play with people that have such requirements anyway.
There are some training guilds that you might want to look into instead (in EU it’s Raid Training Initiative [RTI], for example). If you are already considering playing with pugs, this might be a better decision. Since you have some experience already, and since you seem to like it, you should be fine.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
(edited by Astralporing.1957)
Its not worth it. Best case you get into a group that can’t clear the boss. Average case, you get into a group that struggles, because most of them are lying about their LI (including the people who made up the requirement). Worst case you get kicked if you make a mistake and they try to slander your name and convince other groups to not take you. There really is no winning out of lying about how many LI you have. You would just have to hope for an average case
First of all lying isn’t as easy as to link a fake chatcode. Smart groups will ask you to spam you LI’s multiple times in the chat and if you then have to copy paste a code each time, they’ll notice. I guess you can use some sort of macro to bypass this if you really wanted too. I’d say be honest with groups, find groups of likeminded people with similar experience. I think in all, it will provide a more pleasant experience.
On the topic of what LI mean for a group. I often see people talk about how LI mean nothing and how 200+ LI groups are often worse than 70+ LI groups. This is just nonsense tbh. LI do mean something. Obviously i’ve had bad experience with 200+ LI groups and great experiences with 30 LI groups, but the LI are simply a way of diminishing the risk of a bad group. On average the 200 LI groups clear the bosses far easier than low LI groups. LI stand for experience. Experience doesnt mean everything but it def means something.
So, will lying and getting in high LI groups make increase your chances of success on a raidboss? Yes, but i honestly wouldnt do it.
A lot of groups will accept kill proof as a means to get around LI as LI only says how many bosses have died, not which bosses. So you could have killed wing 1 ten times to get 30 LI, or killed vale guardian and escort 15 times each for 30 LI. The end of the day, it just says bosses died. The groups that fill fast are usually the ones that don’t care about insights and just want you to do your best, sadly these are the ones you’d need, but they fill fast.
I highly suggest finding either a guild with raiders, starting a squad yourself, or just being honest with your group. Being honest with the pug is my preferred way, as guild with raiders could be as toxic as pugs, starting a squad yourself can take awhile as some might look down (plus 300g for a tag now o,o).
Being honest with the pug by saying, “Hey, I know wing 1, i have 30 LI, but I’m not terribly experienced with other wings, is this okay?” A lot of groups will just go “yeah, do you know mechanics?” and take you. If they don’t, then they’re stuck waiting.
As a raider nothing bothers me more than the LI requirement. This past reset I posted for some pugs for my group, listed no LI, and took a dude who never killed the bosses past Sabetha, and we took him to xera. Little to no issues.
TLDR, be honest, faking LI is bad, save at least 1 trophy from the kills to prove you killed/get mini!, don’t let elitists pull you down.
PS: I’m seeing more and more groups for 60+ LI for VALE GUARDIAN!!! LETS STOP THIS PEOPLE! PLEASE!
We are giving away raid kills on EU every sunday, so far only the first three wings. Just tune in next sunday at 7pm CET and we’ll run you through the boss of your choice so that you’ll get to see the mechanics first hand.
Optimise [OP]
No, it’s not worth it. If you lie too much and get caught, word of mouth will get around to those who PUG raids often and then you’ll find yourself on a black list.
Because if you don’t have experience, it will show.
Best to be honest up front. Players are more willing to be helpful to the player who is honest about their lack of knowledge than to the one that lied about it.
then you’ll find yourself on a black list.
Shame things have become this bad.
Pre-Ordered HoT | Recently started to get what I paid for – may spend $$$
First of all lying isn’t as easy as to […]
not if your smart to use a script like one i built, saves u time from having to use those hex-binary converter sites like u find. look i won’t say anymore on that cos last time i did i got suspended over that if u can believe it (literaly was the smallest most uncomplicated block of code u would ever find) but yeah look around there prob other sites that do a better job of that even. so depends how fast u can minimize/maximize the game window honestly should take about 2sec not bad at all. I mean think about how much time it takes for the average player to shift click and split their stacks of LI in-game.. then u can truly do a comparison to be able to prove anything with certainty (not to say that’s what I’m doing).
look i mean lets fact it, LI has been a long-standing joke in this game, its just an awful awful metric and the fact thats its time-gated just makes it even worse for new raiders to get into the scene. they literally have to wade through so much muck and fail hours with beginner lvl casual groups to even manage one or two kill a week. Compare that rate of growth to average experienced raider i mean c’mon lets be honest most of us here manage to get all boss kills (or close to all) each week. Now they added another wing too if only to add salt to the wound, guess what thats like almost 15+ LI each week long as u got a static or exp pug group which isn’t hard to come by if u have connections and the exp. I seen most commanders become insanely jaded with passage of time too, the fact that they have 400 LI or more means nothing to me, but rather the fact they will kick anyone who makes a single mistake on a 1st attempt, no matter how drastic the mistake or at what point in the fight they did (say it was barely a min into it). This ofc means that beginner raiders get even more discouraged by these jaded commanders bc most good pugs are ruthless and highly competitive when it comes to picking and choosing their members. How does any of this contribute to making t he transition easier for them oh wait, it doesnt. A guildie whispered me today saying there was a reddit that spoke negatively about me (brought up by another guy i don’t even know), after i assured him it wasn’t true and said i had 100+ li to prove me exp, he said he had over 400+ li. what does that even mean? it’s just a number u can boast about, as he opted to immediately do by waving it in front of my face. I can tell u i did not appreciate that, no one else would enjoy feeling belittled like that either, even if it was a somewhat friendly boasting by nature.
So all new wing has done is made the gap between exp and casual even worse. there’s no bridging it now when me and most other competent raiders are able to get close to 15 kills a week with semi-exp groups. that’s a close to 150% growth from what we were used to, now those guys with 400 li or more are gonna rack up LI quicker, leaving anyone with lower than 100 li in the dust behind them. the gap is never gonna close, ever. this is bad design but ofc it will never get fixed. The guys who have the capacity within them to do full clears every week are never gonna stop doing their weekly clears even if not to let those who are relatively new to raids catch up to them. Anyone who thinks LI reqs aren’t gonna go through the roof pretty soon is just fooling themselves. Its gonna increase at a rate that semi-casual or beginner raiders are not gonna be able to keep up with, they gonna be denied most of the opportunity to even learn and become exp even. but that’s just the way it is, I mean would u ever wanna raid with someone who was completely new even to w4 if u had 100+ li or more? heck no, i wouldn’t either. but that’s bad design yall know it
On the topic of what LI mean for a group […]
No no no, LI is just a replacement for mastery system or Achievment points as it use to be. I did join dungeon groups ages ago that asked for 10k+ AP so i know a thing or two about how most of the playerbase (at least for pugs) invariably thinks. That you have more LI then me means absolutely nothing to me, it shouldn’t to you either. LI is a meaningless number the more toxic commanders tend to use. I’ve even been kicked from having 142 LI for a group asking for 150 LI.. illustrates the toxicity of these groups more clearly. I’ve played with 30k AP players who were just terrible, sometimes beyond terrible that u wonder how they were intuitive enough to even manage to accrue them. Trust me AP is meaningless, exaclty same as LI. They’re both numbers only one has ~2 more digits tacked onto them. I mean if you wanna hold LI as golden standard for experience (ur words) then you might as well go ahead and promote racism as its basically the same thing here, i mean not to say that theres anything inherently wrong iwth that but just dont expect others to follow you down that road either..
Arun Kar
(edited by nagr.1593)
LI arent’ meaningless. They don’t mean everything but saying they mean nothing is just as wrong. A person with 100+ LI is a more experienced raider and thus more likely to be competent at a boss and his class. He could be kitten, but he’ll prob hold himself better than a 30 LI person. He might not, but there’s less of a chance he’s bad.
I mean if you wanna hold LI as golden standard for experience (ur words) then you might as well go ahead and promote racism as its basically the same thing here, i mean not to say that theres anything inherently wrong iwth that but just dont expect others to follow you down that road either..
This is the single dumbest thing I have ever read on this forum. Congratulations.
then you’ll find yourself on a black list.
Shame things have become this bad.
I don’t know about you, but I wouldn’t want to play with someone who was known to lie about important things.
And if a player does it to enough people, word will get around. I know there’s one person who did have a tendency to post a topic weekly who happened to end up kicked at the beginning of raids due to word of mouth of his behavior. And he openly admitted in those threads that he lied about experience and about his LI.
I also can’t see any game no matter how easy the content was that wouldn’t be in the situation of a player who repeatedly lies finding themselves unable to get into a group to do content. So this game was that bad on day 1.
Look why do i care if some random guy lurking on the forums decides to block me cos he shares a different point of view then me. Most players are loose cannons in this game, anyway. i had someone block me for whispering them ‘hi’ when i came across them in open world too, this was years ago now. literally no other conversation but that, but insta-block. Some people are anti-social, others are so hung up on LI and their own convoluted definitions of ‘exp’ and what that means. I don’t see how that’s any of my business to cater to them or worry about what they think, or change or modify my behavior so that it aligns with their views and doesn’t upset them in the least. If I spent time worrying about every single random stranger and what they thought of me, I’d never get any raiding done. So forgive me if I don’t care about how word of mouth gets around or how close-knit and stubbornly ruthless some guilds in this game are.
I’m also happy to tell u that i don’t have to lie anymore. as i have over 150 li now i rarely have to furnish fake proof, so thanks but it worked out for me in the end. The idea was that you have to look out for yourself, no one else will. Even guildies can so easily turn against you, if they have an alliance with someone else who dislikes you. So in such situations it only emphasizes that you must do whatever it takes to get ahead, even if it skirts some morally gray line. Truth be told pugs and pug commanders have long been skirting the morally gray line in how they treat (and victimize) their members, isn’t it the ‘kick anyone at anytime’ policy with them? Seems just right to me
Arun Kar
(edited by nagr.1593)
I don’t know about you, but I wouldn’t want to play with someone who was known to lie about important things.
And that’s likely the most important part of this discussion. Seriously, no matter how you might dislike/disagree with some LFG requirements, or how stupid they might seem to you, you should still respect them. Otherwise you really can’t expect others to respect you.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
@OP: Sounds like you may want to become a part of a static group. Not only is it gonna be much easier for you to get into weekly kills (since they usually schedule their runs ahead of time), but you won’t run into the same LI problems.
Since in a static group, you get to play with the same people every week and observe their gameplay, LI becomes meaningless, because you can easily tell their skill level. But for pugs, which will probably play with you for the first time, LI is the only thing they can rely on (prior to the actual run itself).
If you are gonna pug and lie anyway, you assume all the responsibility. If you infiltrate a group this way and play well, probably nothing happens, you should be fine. As long as you’re confident in your abilities, go ahead. (My word of advice here would be: Don’t overestimate your abilities. Just like you, I used to think I was a super-pro raider at 30 LIs, but now, a few hundred LIs later, I can easily tell there is a huge difference and experienced raiders can easily see the difference between 30LI player and a 300LI player – assuming those kills were deserved in both cases. It’s not the same even though it might appear to you that way.) There’s also a slight risk – if you join a group pretending to have more LI than you do, and you screw up, they might get very upset with you, kick you, block you and warn their friends not to group up with you. Pretty much what happened to a certain person who posted in this topic earlier, who became extremely (in)famous by doing that. It’s not even necessarily a skill problem, it’s pretty much one’s attitude that gets you into that bad spot. Not saying it’s gonna be your case, just beware.
(edited by Tarasicodissa.7084)
LI is a joke, any group that requires more than 100 LI is just bunch of bads asking to get carried. I have been in those 200+ LI etc. groups – they still make same idiotic mistakes like any 0 LI player would make (running in circles on top of group while having poison debuff on Matt, eating all orbs on Xera etc).
The new wing showed it even more – people join with their 46464654654 LI and can’t handle simplest mechanics from easiest wing in game.
@OP: if you confident in your skills and knowledge of the bosses, i would say go for it, if groups come with such absurd requirements, they deserve to be lied to, imo. Problem is, most require you to spam so you probably would need some kind of macro.
Try to make own groups or join a raiding guild – it is safer tbh. I have been in the same boat when i quit raiding for few months due to pvp seasons and then started to raid again. After switching couple guilds i finally found one i am comfortable with, we kill most bosses every week and i have enough LI now to join pugs if i really have to.
All is Vain~
[Teef] guild :>
[Teef] guild :>
(edited by Cynz.9437)
I wouldn’t lie just because it’s dishonest. Regardless of whether LI makes sense as a check or not, you’re not obligated to join these groups and they’re not obligated to accept everyone who joins. Be honest with people, start your own groups, and if you know what’s going on then just advertise for “exp”, take people at face value, and go from there.
[VZ] Valor Zeal – Stormbluff Isle – Looking for steady, casual-friendly NA raiders!
LI is a joke, any group that requires more than 100 LI is just bunch of bads asking to get carried. I have been in those 200+ LI etc. groups – they still make same idiotic mistakes like any 0 LI player would make (running in circles on top of group while having poison debuff on Matt, eating all orbs on Xera etc).
That’s your experience. I usually join or make group of 100+ LI and we usually always kill the boss at First try.
So please don’t come here to say Li are a joke because for someone like me that mostly pug raids Li +kill proof are the best way to know if someone has exp in raids or not.
Also the fact someone with 171717739393k LI can Easy doesnt know mechanics of wing 4 and die bad it is normal since the Wing is new.
But he Will surely learn them faster than someone with 0 LI.
To OP: since I mostly pug raids I can say you that is better to not fake Li and be always honest.
For example I usually always give a try to someone that is honest if is ok for the whole group while I always kick someone that is lying
Parabrezza
I mean if you wanna hold LI as golden standard for experience (ur words) then you might as well go ahead and promote racism as its basically the same thing here, i mean not to say that theres anything inherently wrong iwth that but just dont expect others to follow you down that road either..
This is the single dumbest thing I have ever read on this forum. Congratulations.
Should read the rest of his posts. The sheer ineptitude with which he fumbles through social interactions is hilarious at best, sad at worst.
@OP: If you want to see side affects of lying about your LI, just read through nagr’s posts, see how he got caught on it and kicked, and is now ostracized by a large part of the raiding community.
You should just lie about it. The 100/200+ LI people wont care if you are a good player that knows the mechanics why should you care what they think? Easy LI farm for you.
Usually if you’re inexperienced then it’s immediately obvious 1 minute into the fight.
Anet make Rev great again.
Usually if you’re inexperienced then it’s immediately obvious 1 minute into the fight.
And if you’ve lied about your LI, then you get labeled as a liar as well and lose people’s trust. And it’s a LOT easier to lose someone’s trust than it is to gain it back.
then you’ll find yourself on a black list.
Shame things have become this bad.
Couldn’t have happened to a nicer community, but if you put a toxic practice in your game it will breed toxicity and kill a decent community like cancer.
It’s all good because now we have Raids so that makes GW2 a real MMO right?
Shame things have become this bad.
People generally don’t like to be lied to. For a good reason, i might add.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
Remember, remember, 15th of November
then you’ll find yourself on a black list.
Shame things have become this bad.
Couldn’t have happened to a nicer community, but if you put a toxic practice in your game it will breed toxicity and kill a decent community like cancer.
It’s all good because now we have Raids so that makes GW2 a real MMO right?
Ah the good, old toxicity argument. It was always there and it was worse during the dungeon time.
Toxicity from non-raiders against raiders is much higher than the other way around.
Nobody likes liars, that would happen in every community.
Meena Wolfsgeist | Ranger
Ceana Mera | Mesmer
Indra Nebelklinge | Revenant
Ceana Mera | Mesmer
Indra Nebelklinge | Revenant
I think, it is better you use ur normal li to join 60 li req group, you just have to tell them that, you only hv 30 li but you know the mechanic very well, will they take you if not you will leave yourself. if they don’t take you, then fine, it isn’t the group you want to play with.
Champion Magus & Phantom, Demon’s Demise, The Archdesigner.
Death is Energy [DIE] – Gandara EU
Australia
Death is Energy [DIE] – Gandara EU
Australia
Do what you gotta do, but tell people if you’re new to a boss so they know
then you’ll find yourself on a black list.
Shame things have become this bad.
Couldn’t have happened to a nicer community, but if you put a toxic practice in your game it will breed toxicity and kill a decent community like cancer.
It’s all good because now we have Raids so that makes GW2 a real MMO right?
Ah the good, old toxicity argument. It was always there and it was worse during the dungeon time.
Toxicity from non-raiders against raiders is much higher than the other way around.Nobody likes liars, that would happen in every community.
If you looked at some of these other posts people can’t tell the difference between fake script and actual script regarding Insights, some one even suggested that if you had the required Insights and didn’t live up to some group of elitist expectations you’d get black listed as a liar even if you’re telling the truth.
Yeah no toxicity at all.
How about watching videos by Nike where one glibs comment in a video about patch balance takes a whole class like Necro’s and throws them away because of META Hive Minders.
…How about watching videos by Nike where one glibs comment in a video about patch balance takes a whole class like Necro’s and throws them away because of META Hive Minders.
Why must you vilify people that want to run a specific composition that you are against or think that people shouldn’t follow? Is it so hard for you to find a group of people that think the same as you, about what is acceptable in a raid and run with them?
There seems to be ample room for middle ground, and for everyone to find like minded people to play with. It seems the best suggestion, instead of trying to excise an entire community base or at the very least constantly complaining about them.
When I first started, I would just join groups saying “100+ LI required” anyways…
Most of the time they didn’t even ask me to link anything, and when they did, I would just link my 20 or so and they would usually just be like, “Hmmm, well, k, if you mess up don’t be surprised if we kick you.”
People are fair enough if you carry yourself with honesty and a little civility.
I like your attitude. My best advice is to be honest with people. They usually do not mind too much and know how to play around including an inexperienced player. There are just as many nice pugs or guild groups out there as there are bad ones.
Tell them what they are in for and do not be offended if they decide to keep any difficult tasks from you. It doesn’t matter wether you are a good player or not, they do not know you. Judging you by your number of LI is almost as silly as judging someone by their amount of AP. It still makes sense to a degree.
Also, there is more to raids than just being a good player or watching a video. You need to know them in and out to keep up with what you are doing, this may be damage dealing, healing or boon application.
Some people might even have limited time and therefor prefer to go with whichever group seems to have the highest chance of success rather than keep trying for hours. You are playing with nine other people, people with schedules and lives.
…How about watching videos by Nike where one glibs comment in a video about patch balance takes a whole class like Necro’s and throws them away because of META Hive Minders.
Why must you vilify people that want to run a specific composition that you are against or think that people shouldn’t follow? Is it so hard for you to find a group of people that think the same as you, about what is acceptable in a raid and run with them?
There seems to be ample room for middle ground, and for everyone to find like minded people to play with. It seems the best suggestion, instead of trying to excise an entire community base or at the very least constantly complaining about them.
When meta thought excludes whole classes how could you not expect resentment?
…How about watching videos by Nike where one glibs comment in a video about patch balance takes a whole class like Necro’s and throws them away because of META Hive Minders.
Why must you vilify people that want to run a specific composition that you are against or think that people shouldn’t follow? Is it so hard for you to find a group of people that think the same as you, about what is acceptable in a raid and run with them?
There seems to be ample room for middle ground, and for everyone to find like minded people to play with. It seems the best suggestion, instead of trying to excise an entire community base or at the very least constantly complaining about them.
When meta thought excludes whole classes how could you not expect resentment?
If only there was a way for people that wish to include everything could make a group, really a shame they can’t /s. Man if you spent the half of the time making an lfg group that is inclusive rather than whining on the forums that everyone else should do it, I bet you’d be far less salty. But of course, it’s easier to complain that others should do something than do it yourself
[eS] Ethereal Synergy
DPS Benchmarks, Raids, Low-mans etc.
DPS Benchmarks, Raids, Low-mans etc.
…How about watching videos by Nike where one glibs comment in a video about patch balance takes a whole class like Necro’s and throws them away because of META Hive Minders.
Why must you vilify people that want to run a specific composition that you are against or think that people shouldn’t follow? Is it so hard for you to find a group of people that think the same as you, about what is acceptable in a raid and run with them?
There seems to be ample room for middle ground, and for everyone to find like minded people to play with. It seems the best suggestion, instead of trying to excise an entire community base or at the very least constantly complaining about them.
When meta thought excludes whole classes how could you not expect resentment?
If only there was a way for people that wish to include everything could make a group, really a shame they can’t /s. Man if you spent the half of the time making an lfg group that is inclusive rather than whining on the forums that everyone else should do it, I bet you’d be far less salty. But of course, it’s easier to complain that others should do something than do it yourself
Actually it’s called ‘debating’, you see by referring to me as whining it shows you have a complete lack of respect which evidently makes you incapable of seeing other people with differing opinions eye to eye; it’s unfortunate because clearly I’m not the one in this discourse showing a weakness here.
…How about watching videos by Nike where one glibs comment in a video about patch balance takes a whole class like Necro’s and throws them away because of META Hive Minders.
Why must you vilify people that want to run a specific composition that you are against or think that people shouldn’t follow? Is it so hard for you to find a group of people that think the same as you, about what is acceptable in a raid and run with them?
There seems to be ample room for middle ground, and for everyone to find like minded people to play with. It seems the best suggestion, instead of trying to excise an entire community base or at the very least constantly complaining about them.
When meta thought excludes whole classes how could you not expect resentment?
Are you not able to make or form groups of people that are willing to complete the content, no matter the classes used? Are you not able to find groups that wish to complete the content, the same as you?
…How about watching videos by Nike where one glibs comment in a video about patch balance takes a whole class like Necro’s and throws them away because of META Hive Minders.
Why must you vilify people that want to run a specific composition that you are against or think that people shouldn’t follow? Is it so hard for you to find a group of people that think the same as you, about what is acceptable in a raid and run with them?
There seems to be ample room for middle ground, and for everyone to find like minded people to play with. It seems the best suggestion, instead of trying to excise an entire community base or at the very least constantly complaining about them.
When meta thought excludes whole classes how could you not expect resentment?
If only there was a way for people that wish to include everything could make a group, really a shame they can’t /s. Man if you spent the half of the time making an lfg group that is inclusive rather than whining on the forums that everyone else should do it, I bet you’d be far less salty. But of course, it’s easier to complain that others should do something than do it yourself
Actually it’s called ‘debating’, you see by referring to me as whining it shows you have a complete lack of respect which evidently makes you incapable of seeing other people with differing opinions eye to eye; it’s unfortunate because clearly I’m not the one in this discourse showing a weakness here.
That’s the thing, you can’t expect ANet to be able to come up with the perfect balance that let’s each class have a spot in the raid meta. Way too hard to do that given the other game modes ANet has to consider. So there will always be a class or few classes that aren’t in the meta at any given time. Yes, it stinks when that class is your main.
Not being meta does not mean that that class will never be able to raid, you just have to put in a little more work to play on it or be willing to play on an alt for that content.