Guild Wars 2

It’s a simple truth: the current set up for Fractals of the Mists, it’s much touted and advertised “endlessly scaling difficulty” is a complete and total failure. Over time the community is becoming further and further divided by the broke, pointless “fractal levels” to the point where getting a group is becoming impossible even at high levels. This system needs to go and be replaced by something that works.

And before anyone says it:

• No, gw2lfg.com is not a viable answer to this problem. Third part websites should NEVER be required to circumvent poor design.
• This has nothing to do with casuals and hardcores. Skilled players are just as screwed by this system if they missed out on the early rush. No amount of skill will convince players to go back and get you to their level.

There’s two ways you can salvage this before the damage becomes permanent. Either make the dungeon go off a standard difficulty system (Easy/Normal/Hard/Nightmare), or make the dungeon scale to the highest available level.

I think these dungeons are awesome but I think they should have implemented a dungeon finder with them.

In most cases failure in this game is by bad players that don’t listen and learn.

That’s nice of you to repeat what every other thread has said thus far.

LordThroat.7890:

That’s nice of you to repeat what every other thread has said thus far.

Better to repeat it than let Anet grow more complacent than they already are.

I thought they are going to implement a “tiers” system so people can play together between levels 1-5, 6-10, and so on. It would make grouping a bit easier, at least for now.

Erasculio.2914:

I thought they are going to implement a “tiers” system so people can play together between levels 1-5, 6-10, and so on. It would make grouping a bit easier, at least for now.

Yup. That was mentioned in the AMA reddit post. There was not a specific answer, and I’m sure they’re still fine-tuning it. It will be interesting to see what comes of it.

Yeah I agree Fractals was a really bad idea. Here are my two cents.

1. No one wants to go back. No one wants the party with me because i am still on level one. I gave up trying because it was too much trouble.
2. None of the other dungeons are being run. At least on my server. I tried doing sorrow’s embrace, which was rarely done before hand, and couldn’t find a group.
3. It again, takes away from the other parts of the game. So many people are farming fractals that during peak hours on a weekend, my server has outmanned buff in 3/4 WvW areas.

Drew.1865:

I think these dungeons are awesome but I think they should have implemented a dungeon finder with them.

In most cases failure in this game is by bad players that don’t listen and learn.

blaming “bad players” for the design failure isn’t going to address the problem. the problem here is alot of ppl can’t find a grp for the lvl they need. this problem will be bigger as more ppl progress further.

I find people quickly enough for 30+ during prime time. Don’t see the problem there

Anet already said they’re working on a solution for the Fractal leveling system. From what I heard it’s going to involve tiers of some sort but that could all be subject to change weeks down the development line. Going as far as to label it a ‘complete failure’ however is rather uncalled for, however. I’d imagine it’s coming in the December patch or prioritized for next year, but I’m not an insider.

Fractals is not a fail.

If people aren’t willing to do lower level fractals with you thats because they are selfish. I’ve done plenty runs I don’t need to to help out guildies on lower levels or just because no one on my current level is available for a group, so I join a low level group. Call me crazy but I’ve also noticed drop rates suck kitten at higher levels, level 1-5 was the best drops I’ve ever got(forget about pink kitten).

In most cases failure in this game is by bad players that don’t listen and learn.

Well said Drew. +1

Megido.5061:

Anet already said they’re working on a solution for the Fractal leveling system. From what I heard it’s going to involve tiers of some sort but that could all be subject to change weeks down the development line. Going as far as to label it a ‘complete failure’ however is rather uncalled for, however. I’d imagine it’s coming in the December patch or prioritized for next year, but I’m not an insider.

As it stands this isn’t a problem that can wait much longer. The entire Lost Shore’s patch was below par even by F2P standards. The new zone is a complete waste of space since no one goes there. The class changes turned out to be more nerfs for everything but Warrior as usual. Only FotM is really enjoyable, but that’s quickly killed by the broken leveling system.

Arenanet really set a bad precedent for future content quality in November, and waiting until January or later to fix the only good thing from that godawful patch isn’t going to make potential players look favorably upon an already floundering game.

ReeferKeeper.1865:

Fractals is not a fail.

If people aren’t willing to do lower level fractals with you thats because they are selfish. I’ve done plenty runs I don’t need to to help out guildies on lower levels or just because no one on my current level is available for a group, so I join a low level group. Call me crazy but I’ve also noticed drop rates suck kitten at higher levels, level 1-5 was the best drops I’ve ever got(forget about pink kitten).

In most cases failure in this game is by bad players that don’t listen and learn.

Well said Drew. +1

When SWTOR has a better system in place to help players get caught up in current endgame dungeon content then GW2, you know GW2 is in serious danger. Blaming this on the players and not the system that limits them arbitrarily only makes you look like a zealot.

apperantly it was time to admit fotm has failed…in your opinion and you did so.. really? With a title like that.. i doubt this is a good post.

Vasham.2408:

When SWTOR has a better system in place to help players get caught up in current endgame dungeon content then GW2, you know GW2 is in serious danger. Blaming this on the players and not the system that limits them arbitrarily only makes you look like a zealot.

Sorry bud but I played SWTOR since closed beta and this is not something that was implemented until it had been out a year. so as far as that is concerned…. GW2 has plenty of time. AND dungeons/operations in Swtor group finders are easy to make in Swtor, in GW2 not so much. first off you have the MMO trinity in Swtor, you don’t here, so the group composition would be a factor here.

I hear all these people complaining that they cant get a group, maybe… just maybe.. people don’t want to do what you want to. That is not GW2 fault! Get a guild… or get a group of friends. I found a group in my guild that we run one fractal/dungeon a night. Did we have to catch people up… yes… was it a big deal? no! because we enjoy playing together! Quit blaming this game for your lack of sociality! find groups of people that enjoy doing what you do and you will have no problem finding a group!

I am sorry but it IS your fault… no one to blame but yourself. Quit trying to single play an MMO… cause all you will do by your constant complaining is turn it more single player… get some in game friends man…. that or a guild. This is an MMO… don’t blame the devs for your inability to socialize. callin me a zealot… please.

TheRiddick.1976:

Vasham.2408:

When SWTOR has a better system in place to help players get caught up in current endgame dungeon content then GW2, you know GW2 is in serious danger. Blaming this on the players and not the system that limits them arbitrarily only makes you look like a zealot.

Sorry bud but I played SWTOR since closed beta and this is not something that was implemented until it had been out a year. so as far as that is concerned…. GW2 has plenty of time. AND dungeons/operations in Swtor group finders are easy to make in Swtor, in GW2 not so much. first off you have the MMO trinity in Swtor, you don’t here, so the group composition would be a factor here.

I hear all these people complaining that they cant get a group, maybe… just maybe.. people don’t want to do what you want to. That is not GW2 fault! Get a guild… or get a group of friends. I found a group in my guild that we run one fractal/dungeon a night. Did we have to catch people up… yes… was it a big deal? no! because we enjoy playing together! Quit blaming this game for your lack of sociality! find groups of people that enjoy doing what you do and you will have no problem finding a group!

I am sorry but it IS your fault… no one to blame but yourself. Quit trying to single play an MMO… cause all you will do by your constant complaining is turn it more single player… get some in game friends man…. that or a guild. This is an MMO… don’t blame the devs for your inability to socialize. callin me a zealot… please.

It was unacceptable that it took that long in SWTOR, it’s just as unacceptable here. You’re also ignoring the basic fact: the group finder raids in SWTOR allow you to catch up to the current content level. Fractals, meanwhile, punish those who have missed out because it’s not about gear. It’s about a poorly implimented difficulty gating mechanic, one that’s totally unnecessary and goes against the design philosophies of dungeons in this game.

I love how zealots project about the people who call Arenanet out on their poor design choices. I am in a large guild, and I don’t try to play GW2 “single player.” Heaping unfounded accusations on people doesn’t change the flaws in this dungeon’s design. Period.

But in your delusional, self obsessed rant did you stop to think about people who maybe want to run this dungeon but don’t have the benefit of a large guild, or any guild for that matter. What about the ones that don’t have the time to run it regularly and every day are left further in the dust since the only thing stopping them is this arbitrary gating mechanic?

Try thinking about other people before you go sounding the Arenanet defense force’s alarms, zealot.

@ Vasham, careful what you say to a zealot, we have knives. hahaha… jokes jokes.

Well I wrote a long post, then decided to make it short and sweet.

Comparisons never end well.

The system is the same concept as “story mode” dungeons. Get to “B” by beating “A” then forget about “A”.They just taken it to a much higher degree for the hardcore players in my opinion. No reason to think this game is “in danger” because of this.

only problem i have with fotm is the fact its causeing LA /map chat to be full of lfg level … i want old trolling and boreing convo back in my la! maybe make fratcles dugon into the new lost shores map not la!

You know what… after re reading the entirety of the posts I realize that I was off base… I Thought from your last post that you were pushing for a group finder. I am against that… I apologize for how i came off there. I do agree that the leveling dungeon does cut off those who get into the game later. I dont think that the scaling would work due Agony… Maybe a rating system would work like it scales to the highest but takes the lowest in consideration.

like if one player has done to 12 and one is just starting, it could go to lvl 10 difficulty. But then would that person get their level to 10 or just leveled to 2? there is a lot to think about when scaling.

If they went to a more easy medium hard scaling…. that would just be the system they have in place now. I think it is harder to fix this than just one thing. Dunno… all i can say is… as it sits now… just get a good group of buds and bust through it. I dont think this is gonna be a simple fix. so that is the best thing you can do .

Once again sorry for my rantness… I just do not want a group finder implemented.

TheRiddick.1976:

You know what… after re reading the entirety of the posts I realize that I was off base… I Thought from your last post that you were pushing for a group finder. I am against that… I apologize for how i came off there. I do agree that the leveling dungeon does cut off those who get into the game later. I dont think that the scaling would work due Agony… Maybe a rating system would work like it scales to the highest but takes the lowest in consideration.

like if one player has done to 12 and one is just starting, it could go to lvl 10 difficulty. But then would that person get their level to 10 or just leveled to 2? there is a lot to think about when scaling.

If they went to a more easy medium hard scaling…. that would just be the system they have in place now. I think it is harder to fix this than just one thing. Dunno… all i can say is… as it sits now… just get a good group of buds and bust through it. I dont think this is gonna be a simple fix. so that is the best thing you can do .

Once again sorry for my rantness… I just do not want a group finder implemented.

It’s cool, misreadings happen. Sorry for calling you a zealot at the time as well. Glad we can see eye to eye on it.

And yeah, no dungeon finder. If Arenanet can get off it’s kitten and fix this issue there’s no need for one anyway.

Drew.1865:

In most cases failure in this game is by bad players that don’t listen and learn.

Could you be so kind and write a definition of “bad players”?

The actual design of the dungeon fractals is quite nice and well done.

But that’s about as much positive you can say about it.

The rest of the implementation has been about as bad as you could have reasonably expected.

-A massive level segregation without a noticeable change in difficulty within a tier.
-Progression gated via (low) RNG drops from daily chests.
-A few poorly designed encounters (Squid boss)
-No way to deal with quitters or disconnects.
-Content = doing the same thing over and over and over and over again.

Fracs are good dungeons… They need to use this model for all dungeons when they rework them. Maybe have level ranges 1-5-, 5-10 and so on, Also don’t have selectable paths. Have random ones selected for you. + LFG should have never been left out of the game.

Vasham.2408:

It’s a simple truth: the current set up for Fractals of the Mists, it’s much touted and advertised “endlessly scaling difficulty” is a complete and total failure.

Agree with that, but it is not only the difference in the level’s between players and that players are less and less willing to do the low levels.

For example:
Today i joined one of the nicest pug i ever had, for level 1 and 2. All level 80, two ing, one ranger, one mesmer, one necro. Of course i do not know how the others were equipped. We have done everything well, but the “20 minutes for one mini dungeon” was only a nice lullaby (Cliffside Fractal bugged once, but that is not the point here). At the second level we got for the 3rd dungeon the Underground Facility Fractal with the Legendary Hulking Ice Elemental . That was the end. Whatever we try, we couldn’t manage to bring him down. All the members in the group were really really willing to do the boss. After a first try, kiting worked fine, using the molten buckets worked fine, but we still didn’t had enough damag and at some point in the fight either someone was down, or the boss healed himself. I think we try it for about 50 minutes, after that we quit.

Can you immagine, what this player may think about the fractals?

I have done level 1 50 times* (sic!) to help frieds/guildies or just some pugs in many different grouping. I had groups where we did this boss in less than 5 min. (my best run ever was with two warriors, guardian and thief).

I like the idea behind the fractals – i.e. the random mini dangeons – and the fractals too (except the swamp, that is bullsh…t) but it is all just too beta for me. To much bugs, to unbalanced fights – particularly at low level and in particular class combination – and a very poorly conceived leveling mechanism.

The complete and total failure is not only about the fractals, it is about the holy trinity too. ANet decided not to have any roles in GW2 anymore. What is the relality? Guardians are used to be the healer, warriors the DD, the rest is mediocre CC/DD. The “every class can do everything” is an epic mistake from ANet. And as they can not change the classes any more such drastically, they should change the dungeons (not only the fractals).

One more epic mistake is the revard system in the fractals.
After all runs (and as i said, 50 from at level 1) just one drop of Vial of Condensed Mists Essence. That is (sorry dear game desingers, but i like to be very clear in that:) a piece of sh…it.

Fractals = no fun, no revard, punishment/boring if you helping others to reach higher level as 0.

I feel like people forget that the game has been out for less than 5 months.

Vasham.2408:

Megido.5061:

Anet already said they’re working on a solution for the Fractal leveling system. From what I heard it’s going to involve tiers of some sort but that could all be subject to change weeks down the development line. Going as far as to label it a ‘complete failure’ however is rather uncalled for, however. I’d imagine it’s coming in the December patch or prioritized for next year, but I’m not an insider.

As it stands this isn’t a problem that can wait much longer. The entire Lost Shore’s patch was below par even by F2P standards. The new zone is a complete waste of space since no one goes there. The class changes turned out to be more nerfs for everything but Warrior as usual. Only FotM is really enjoyable, but that’s quickly killed by the broken leveling system.

Arenanet really set a bad precedent for future content quality in November, and waiting until January or later to fix the only good thing from that godawful patch isn’t going to make potential players look favorably upon an already floundering game.

[quote=901025;ReeferKeeper.1865: kitten … I love this dungeon, yeah others are being done less but guess what, this is new content people enjoy, that’s why. Soon they’ll get bored and go back to the usualy farming tokens of other dungeons for whatever reason.

Fractals is not a fail.

If people aren’t willing to do lower level fractals with you thats because they are selfish. I’ve done plenty runs I don’t need to to help out guildies on lower levels or just because no one on my current level is available for a group, so I join a low level group. Call me crazy but I’ve also noticed drop rates suck kitten at higher levels, level 1-5 was the best drops I’ve ever got(forget about pink kitten).

In most cases failure in this game is by bad players that don’t listen and learn.

Well said Drew. +1

When SWTOR has a better system in place to help players get caught up in current endgame dungeon content then GW2, you know GW2 is in serious danger. Blaming this on the players and not the system that limits them arbitrarily only makes you look like a zealot.[/quote]

Tortanic is the game I left to play this and there is no comparison between the two games in quality of content as well as the devs that run GW2.

Tortanic was built with a broken engine that still doesn’t work as intended and you have maintenance days you do not have in this game and you also pay a sub.

Use World of Restarts or a game from a company that doesn’t knowingly use a broken engine when comparing game quality to this one if you want to be taken seriously.

Yes this game needs a dungeon finder and this should have been a feature at release.

Esplen.3940:

I feel like people forget that the game has been out for less than 5 months.

This happens with every mmo. Everyone is not only a person playing the game but they also have all the answers as to how it should have been developed.

Many mmo players approach games as thought they should be released as if they had been an 8 year old title.

I agree completely. The leveling system just divides people even more.

I personally refuse to do fractals anyway since the dungeon has that stupid RNG drop system for ascended gear, but if they were to finally switch it back to the token system I wouldn’t be able to find a group due to being so far behind in fractal levels.

Sorry but i have to disagree with you.In my opinion the dungeon is a success.I’m already lvl 30 and i have a reason to do even higher levles.And this reason is not gear grind for stats or what ever.I like to farm levels.That is what motivates me.Not the ascended gear.
Are the fractals a big gear check?Yes they are.
Is it missing a group making system?Yes it is.
Are there bugs?Yes there are.
Does disconects exist?Yes.Have i disconected?Again yes

Does any of the reasons above stopped me from doing it?No.
Why?It’s certainly not because of the ascended gear or the gear treadmill.What i love is the levels.That is something i really like.Not the resistance,not the gear.I don’t mind those.
I don’t have problems with the missing group making ingame system too.I know Anet is working on it.So it will come.
So no,no,no and NO the dungeon is good.It has everything i needed.

I don’t understand the mentality of not wanting a dungeon finder from some people.. Do you just assume adding a dungeon finder makes this more like WoW or something? What logical answer is there to not adding a dungeon finder?

The problem is fractals have so many different lvls…it’s pointless considering you hardly notice a difference no matter the difficulty of each tier.

They should have reduced the difficulties and have made it harder…Tier 1, Tier 2, Tier 3 and so on, instead of 9 difficulties for each tier that really have no point, it just makes it a hell trying to find a group at your current difficulty.

So ANet managed to dump all the “old” content in a single patch while creating a selfrecycling new content that locks out players in lightspeed.
Gratz to making another WoW clone there.

Barbarka.9362:

Fracs are good dungeons… They need to use this model for all dungeons when they rework them. Maybe have level ranges 1-5-, 5-10 and so on, Also don’t have selectable paths. Have random ones selected for you. + LFG should have never been left out of the game.

Oh, I can already see how people will do path 1 or 4 in arah when the system selects it for them! Leave that ridiculous scalling where it belongs (bin with bad and scrapped designs). You shouldn’t be forced to grind through faceroll levels just to get to the harder and more challenging part.

And I agree, fractals failed to meet my expectations, I’ve been saying that since day 2.

The primary failing of Fractals is disconnects blocking progression. Spending 45 mins or so doing a set of 3 and getting dc’d and booted on the last one tends to demotivate people.

I’m not sure if you guys realize that WoW had no dungeon finder until about 2 years after release and even then all it was was essentially the LFG system that GW2 has in place. Additionally, if anyone d/c’ed/left a dungeon in WoW during the beginning of it’s lifetime, it was immensely hard to replace that person and progress without that person due to a low playerbase in each server individually.

Drew.1865:

Esplen.3940:

I feel like people forget that the game has been out for less than 5 months.

This happens with every mmo. Everyone is not only a person playing the game but they also have all the answers as to how it should have been developed.

Many mmo players approach games as thought they should be released as if they had been an 8 year old title.

The fact is though. Some of the issues with fractals show a level of competence far below what was expected of Anet, given their past history.

Reconnecting from disconnects was something Anet fixed YEARS ago. Every dungeon in this game allowed you to go back in. Only fractals has failed that. I dont think people would be even close to as mad about the constant DC’ing if it wasnt wasting literally 45+ minutes of their time.

The whole RNG thing is something that Anet said they wouldnt do. For every other dungeon there was a token system, and for a while before it was abused, chests would drop tokens, meaning that even if you didnt finish a dungeon, you still felt like you were progressing. With fractal RNG, assuming you manage to finish past all the DC’ing you can still end up no closer to your goal (and indeed, having that happen to me 18 times in a row is more than a little annoying)
Also RNG doesnt reward the players who play better. Hell, even in WoW, it rewards them more than it does here. in WoW better skilled players will clear content faster, and be able to repeat it to give themselves more chances at the gear they need. Here in GW2 though you only have 1 chance a day. Playing better, finishing faster, does nothing for you, because there’s no repeat chance that day.

The fact is, GW2 promised to reward skilled players, and not have situations like this. GW2 has managed to create a system WORSE than anything in WoW right now. So it’s not that we feel entitled. It’s that we feel lied to, and kitten on, by Anet, who has put in a system that they said they would never do, AND that would have been ancient and still kitteny 10 years ago.

I still see alot of lfg for low level fractals in lions arch. They did propose a different system however, with difficulty tiers. 1-9, 10-19 etc where you can run any level within your tier. Dont remember where I read that post but its around somewhere.

Making it accountbased would do a great deal as well.

In addition, if you got disconnected, u cannot back into the instance.
I take an hour to complete 3 missions and got disconnected. My daily award and level up chance are gone. Also my team member need to play harder.

And this happen not once only.

Other dungeon can get back to the instance, why FotM cannot?.

More over, some mission have design issue.

For example, Cliffside Fractal when going up to the top, some of item block the screen and need to run step by step, but the forward step can become roll and fall as the forward key can become roll .

Also the last past, the road with bomb , most platform is safe to stand, but only the finally one cannot or u blow out and fall .

The main reason why you’re not able to go back in for FotM is because it’s supposed to be a challenge where you can’t repair or sell your gear unless you bring repair cannisters or black lion merchants.

The idea is sound, but it has a lot of loopholes due to unintended disconnecting and other things.

The main reason why ArenaNet is not publishing a quick-fix patch is because they want it to stay the same way with the same… values, essentially, while also allowing people back in. This means that they have to code an entirely NEW reconnect to dungeon system for this dungeon alone.

I admit they didn’t think over it too well, but just calm down. If you want to play a non-buggy game, wait a few months —> a year. This happens with almost EVERY game. People just forget about the beginnings or they were never there.

Esplen.3940:

I’m not sure if you guys realize that WoW had no dungeon finder until about 2 years after release and even then all it was was essentially the LFG system that GW2 has in place. Additionally, if anyone d/c’ed/left a dungeon in WoW during the beginning of it’s lifetime, it was immensely hard to replace that person and progress without that person due to a low playerbase in each server individually.

And still, players managed to find groups for dungeons that took 2-5 hours.
So why would this game need an automated system? In every game that has it, dungeons started to suck just because of the people.

There is no need for an automated system or autoporting. A simple system where people can list themselves for a dungeon would be enough so its easier to find people. Wow had that before the instance finder.

Esplen.3940:

I feel like people forget that the game has been out for less than 5 months.

I feel like people forget Anet has dozens of other games to learn from, all of which have been out for years and years. Also their own game GW1.

I’ve only been able to do one Fractual myself due to lack of a proper LFG tool. For people who don’t have the time to sit in Lions Arch spamming chat for hours this entire system is completely broken: same goes for the dungeons really. A automatic queue and porting system is needed.

Right now. over 1h sitting in LA and spaming F5 on gw2lfg. Weekend evening prime time. Cant find the group. Please AN, do something about this. I dont see FotM as a failure but this whole level community split is against core values of your manifesto.

For those of you still spamming in LA for a group, please consider using gw2lfg.com. Yes I agree that it is ridiculous that a third party had to create a decent lfg tool, but at lesat in the meantime it has been a big help to me.

that is all, carry on =)

gw2lfg does help of course but it can only help so much. The “matchmaking” mechanisms is driving the dispersion in the gamer base and there will come a point where a good lfg tool will not help as the limiting factor is not the dissemination of lfg requests but the requirements of the gamers to join a dungeon in the first place.

I might be digressing a bit here but I think ascended items is kinda a bad idea. I don’t see why back items have such high mat requirements. A generic craftable exotic will just need about 5 ectos and about 15 fine mat. For an ascended back piece, one would need 50 ectos and a full stack of t6 mats. If you would farm the tokens themselves, it still doesn’t compare. For a regular dungeon, one would 390 tokens for the most “expensive” item that gives 60 tokens on a fresh run. For Fotm, you would need 1850 tokens and for most parts, you will get much less than 60 tokens in a full run? If ascended items are merely cosmetics, I would understand… but they are not. They, and rings, are the only sources of agony resistance. For ascended rings, I don’t get why they are governed by RNG since they are again a source of agony resistance.

Lastly, the dc issue. If Anet wants to make it more challenging by limiting repair and vendoring opportunities, its fine. There can definitely be some middleground solution like having a temp buffer on the status of the individuals armour at maybe the start of the fractual so that when the gamers leaves and re-enters Fotm, the game “remembers” his/her armour status or something like that. But to completely shut off and waste a gamer’s time over unintentional internet disruption is not really reasonable imo.

Yes the dc issue is completely frustrating. Also the very design of the lvling system is forcing me to pug to progress instead of playing with my friends and guildmates. I actually had to say to my guild today that my recommendation is to just pug w/e they can and forget waiting for others since that route will just keep us all at the lowest common denominator. How crappy is that? We will still group in the evenings of course but we had to give up on doing it as a group, which is sad….look at my sad face! =(

I’ve sort of given up – it’s hard enough to find a group, then when you do, it’s too easy for a disconnect or rage quitter to negate your progress.

Personally, I think the problem could be fixed EASILY. Make the portal in Lion’s Arch take you to a staging area that all players within 5 levels of your completion number also go to LFG.

Having a Fractals Level 24 group shouting right next to a Fractals Level 3 group is just dumb. Too many overflow areas wasted that could be used to instance the lookers to areas with others closer to their own difficulty rating. It would also take the map shouting crap-fest out of Lion’s Arch.

Fractals are fine. They’re a lot of fun. The problem is finding a group, which is a general problem in gw2 not specific to fractals.

And yes, I know about the lfg website. You shouldn’t need 3rd party content to effectively run fotm (but you do, if you want to pug).