Guild Wars 2

Holy cow!!!!! I’m level 56 thief with level appropriate gear/weapons (mix of greens and yellows) and I’m a longtime wow player who has converted to gw2. I’m really enjoying the game! However, I just tried to do the first level 35 dungeon and YEESH, that was PAINFUL!! I was running it with 3 other people who were in my old wow guild, experienced 80s who have been playing is game since launch and 1 level 80 pug. 4 of us were in mumble and able to communicate strategy pretty well.
We got through the spider queen, wiped about 9 times on the lieutenant before skipping him entirely, and then fought for probably about 2.5 hours with the giant lizard that is invincible unless you ghostbuster the oozes to a trap before finally giving up in frustration… I know I’m newer to the game and most people are going to just hit me with l2p noooooob.. But that wasn’t even fun….
Are all of the dungeons like this? It just seems so out of place? Is the 35 dungeon just a severe gear check? (How 35s could do this without some major coordination is beyond me)
It’s really kinda shocking and disappointing, I did not really enjoy that experience and if that is what the dungeons are like in this game I am going to have to stick with pvp…

The difficulty of open world PVE and dungeons differ by an astronomical unit. Most open world PVE content you can just stand there and hit whatever on your bar and kill the things.

Most dungeon, you need to move around, and use your dodgeroll, and use your blocks etc. I’m not sure if you know this but facetanking in this game’s dungoens is not going to work. Same with heals, you are never going to outheal the damage done by mobs. learn their moves and avoid them. Dying lots and finding things do too much damage? learn to not get hit. The heal skills are there to help you with the occasional mistake, not for spamming.

The dungeons are difficult/near impossible if you don’t know what you’re doing. However, once you eat enough dirt and see what the bosses do, you’ll be able to understand what weapons to use for what bosses, when to dodge, etc etc.

If you’re going into a completely unfamiliar dungeon, you should expect to go down/die often. It happens to everyone, not just you. It sucks to be constantly floor-hugging, but that’s something bound to happen if you’re inexperienced. The patience is worth it though; dungeons are extremely fun once you get the hang of it.

As for AC being a “severe gear check,” it really isn’t. At least for the pre-change AC dungeon, I was in parties where we were between 35-60 and cleared it without wiping.

I ate kitten my first dungeon. It takes a much higher amount of skill than open world content, but you will learn and adapt.

don’t worry. That experience every newbie to the game has to make- at least I did it on my first Ascalon Catacombs story mode run back then and most of the people I know. Now we’re facerolling every dungeon onehanded. I thought to myself that’s impossible. Learn your character, learn when to use dodgeroll (essential game mechanic in GW2, unlike standing half akitten WoW), learn the abilities of your enemies and what counterskills you have for those.

Also you need to learn how to exploit the fights in the dungeons. The spider for example you can stack near the stairs, that trick makes the fight waay easier, even if your group die on the spider queen at least you will be able to kill all the mini spiders, making the fight with the boss easier (don’t forget to destroy those turrets first too).

That boss with oozes and traps is one of the most boring in this game, so that path is the least played from that dungeon, path 3 is easier, path 1 is the easiest if you group know how to deal with the burrow’s room where you need to defend Hodgins.

Tries once and fails > impossible.

Casmurro.9046:

Also you need to learn how to exploit the fights in the dungeons. The spider for example you can stack near the stairs, that trick makes the fight waay easier, even if your group die on the spider queen at least you will be able to kill all the mini spiders, making the fight with the boss easier (don’t forget to destroy those turrets first too).

That boss with oozes and traps is one of the most boring in this game, so that path is the least played from that dungeon, path 3 is easier, path 1 is the easiest if you group know how to deal with the burrow’s room where you need to defend Hodgins.

You don’t really need to stack on the stairs for the spider queen. The poison spray has a minimum distance so it should hit anyone in melee range. She raises her front legs before doing the web spitting attack so just don’t stand in front of her when she does that. That way should take almost no damage in the fight. The babies can be painful but a bit of LoSing can easily deal with them even without reflects.

Wukunlin.8461:

Casmurro.9046:

Also you need to learn how to exploit the fights in the dungeons. The spider for example you can stack near the stairs, that trick makes the fight waay easier, even if your group die on the spider queen at least you will be able to kill all the mini spiders, making the fight with the boss easier (don’t forget to destroy those turrets first too).

That boss with oozes and traps is one of the most boring in this game, so that path is the least played from that dungeon, path 3 is easier, path 1 is the easiest if you group know how to deal with the burrow’s room where you need to defend Hodgins.

You don’t really need to stack on the stairs for the spider queen. The poison spray has a minimum distance so it should hit anyone in melee range. She raises her front legs before doing the web spitting attack so just don’t stand in front of her when she does that. That way should take almost no damage in the fight. The babies can be painful but a bit of LoSing can easily deal with them even without reflects.

Pretty sure stacking just makes it easier and things like WW and FGS (#4 and #3) become more effective for better kill times. Unless i dont actually know why we stack lol.

Delay.6908:

Wukunlin.8461:

Casmurro.9046:

Also you need to learn how to exploit the fights in the dungeons. The spider for example you can stack near the stairs, that trick makes the fight waay easier, even if your group die on the spider queen at least you will be able to kill all the mini spiders, making the fight with the boss easier (don’t forget to destroy those turrets first too).

That boss with oozes and traps is one of the most boring in this game, so that path is the least played from that dungeon, path 3 is easier, path 1 is the easiest if you group know how to deal with the burrow’s room where you need to defend Hodgins.

You don’t really need to stack on the stairs for the spider queen. The poison spray has a minimum distance so it should hit anyone in melee range. She raises her front legs before doing the web spitting attack so just don’t stand in front of her when she does that. That way should take almost no damage in the fight. The babies can be painful but a bit of LoSing can easily deal with them even without reflects.

Pretty sure stacking just makes it easier and things like WW and FGS (#4 and #3) become more effective for better kill times. Unless i dont actually know why we stack lol.

yeah I suppose having a pillar between the team and the boss allows those face walling skills to do max dps. I’m just saying anyone can pretty much solo this boss as long as they are not standing inside poison wells and getting hit by the web thing

Syn Sity.5826:

Tries once and fails > impossible.

It sounds like he tried about 20 times, given that he was in there for hours.

Dungeons in this game have a horrible risk : reward ratio. Sure, once you know them they aren’t that difficult but even then the reward is so lackluster that you wonder why you even bother. Hence why so many people cluster at just 1 or 2 paths of the 30 or so dungeons paths available.

Good news is you don’t need to bother with dungeons at all. Well I guess that’s good news if you like just sitting around twiddling your thumbs because you “won” the game (given that there’s no progression).

Oh man you did Path 2? Yeah stuff that, I don’t even do that path anymore. Without a group of people who know exactly what they’re doing (rare in PuG’s these days) then the Ghost Eater is a nightmare. Like people have already said, dodging is the best form of damage mitigation, WoW teaches you to stand still and spam your abilities in a mind numbing game of ‘hit and get hit’. Ghost Eater only has two attacks, the three or so AoE fields which you need to barrel roll out of if he’s aiming at you, and the claw projectile which has a very recognisable cast, just roll forwards through the projectiles. I always take Vigor for that fight so I can stay in melee range when he becomes vulnerable to dish out as much damage as possible. Other than that coordinating the oozes into the traps really shouldn’t have been a problem seeing as you were on mumble.

There is a massive gap in capability between new players and the experienced players. Firstly the experienced players have common knowledge tactics that are run in PUGs and work very well. Lots of players don’t realize how much difference they make and would be unable to form their own tactics. Secondly the experienced players can get massively more out of their characters. By applying the right defense at the right time they can avoid the worst damage/effects and dps almost unhindered.

AC was revamped however a few months back. This made it more punishing for beginner groups though not much more difficult for experienced players. Many people posted on the forums that it is too punishing for the first explorable dungeon and you probably now agree. The other dungeons can be just as tough but there are certainly some easier paths amongst them.

imo AC exp is good learning material for people wanting to learn about the game’s exp dungeons:

- spider babies teaches how important projectile reflections/absorptions are in this game because all that damage can be prevented by having these skills
-spider queen is a good example to show why people shouldn’t stand in red circles
-kholer is probably the best encounter to show bosses having dangerous attacks with big windups that needs to be avoided by dodging or otherwise, also shows boss summoned adds can be harmful if ignored for too long.

I didn’t play very long, but I’m just thinking to wayyyyyyyy back when, and I don’t remember Shadowfang Keep being harder than open world in WoW except that it really helped to use pull tactics. You were pretty much able to go in there as a scrub and do fine. I think that’s why perhaps people are getting smoked in AC, because of the leap in difficulty going from open world with regular mobs and a few vets to silver mobs and having to 5-man champs.

Sounds about my guild’s first experience with AC Story Mode and getting absolutely facerolled thinking to ourselves “If PUGs do this and we can’t then how bad are we?!”. But, we tried the next day, and got through with not that much trouble and now we’re running 1 path in most dungeons with no issues

They say lvl 35 but they mean:

lvl 80, full exotic with food buffs.

Gw2 dungeon mechanics:
Know the gimmicks or die

Although I hate this, the dungeons arent bad if you know them ahead of time.

Broadicea.8294:

I didn’t play very long, but I’m just thinking to wayyyyyyyy back when, and I don’t remember Shadowfang Keep being harder than open world in WoW except that it really helped to use pull tactics. You were pretty much able to go in there as a scrub and do fine. I think that’s why perhaps people are getting smoked in AC, because of the leap in difficulty going from open world with regular mobs and a few vets to silver mobs and having to 5-man champs.

Can’t talk about Shadowfang since I mostly played alliance, but the I remember the Deadmines as quite difficult for a bunch of newbies. But you are right, the leap from open world into the dungeons is the big problem here since outside most things are ridiculously easy.

Thanks for all the replies, I am absolutely going to have to study up/practice damage avoidance before giving it another go later- guess it was just frustrating to experience that in the lowest lvl dungeon.
Any tips on areas other than dungeons to really get some good timing / damage mitigation experience as I’m leveling?

Jeremy.4390:

Thanks for all the replies, I am absolutely going to have to study up/practice damage avoidance before giving it another go later- guess it was just frustrating to experience that in the lowest lvl dungeon.
Any tips on areas other than dungeons to really get some good timing / damage mitigation experience as I’m leveling?

Unfortunately no. Dungeons suck to some extent bc you need to know it to do it well in most cases. In other words, say your group gets to the point where you run ac well, when you change to another dungeon you dont know or lookup beforehand, that experience may only be marginally better than the exp u just described.

Those three friends of yours weren’t that experienced as you thought they’d be, then. I’ve ran this dungeon often enough even after the revamp to say almost everything in there is easy as hell.

I often end up having to solo the Spider Queen on my Mesmer/Guardian whenever i go with pugs, because they just can’t avoid the green circles or clear the little spiders before destroying the fire shooting gargoyle thingies.

Honestly, one good player is enough to carry a completely bad group through AC(all paths).

this is not wow
i will advice you the same way i was advised and it help me to play better
“be the last man on your team that is to die”
if your health is low and there is no support just doge doge away heal and jump back in

Svetli.4276:

this is not wow
i will advice you the same way i was advised and it help me to play better
“be the last man on your team that is to die”
if your health is low and there is no support just doge doge away heal and jump back in

that’s horrible advice, if everyone followed that, the entire game will end up with full Cleric’s Guardians camping scepter/staff, and SB/LB/bear/bear rangers.

OH WAIT

I remember those days, young padawan. Fear not the dark.

CptAurellian.9537:

Broadicea.8294:

I didn’t play very long, but I’m just thinking to wayyyyyyyy back when, and I don’t remember Shadowfang Keep being harder than open world in WoW except that it really helped to use pull tactics. You were pretty much able to go in there as a scrub and do fine. I think that’s why perhaps people are getting smoked in AC, because of the leap in difficulty going from open world with regular mobs and a few vets to silver mobs and having to 5-man champs.

Can’t talk about Shadowfang since I mostly played alliance, but the I remember the Deadmines as quite difficult for a bunch of newbies. But you are right, the leap from open world into the dungeons is the big problem here since outside most things are ridiculously easy.

One can still find challenge in the open world, but I’ll grant you have to look for it. And that’s how it should be. Dungeons were meant to be harder. I’ll also grant that the open world does not prepare players for explorable dungeons. However, sotry mode was supposed to do that. Then, you have issues like AC story at launch being harder than AC explore (no longer true, of course).

As to players coming from other games’ dungeons… even when hard, the difficulty in those games is not the same. There, the only time one is responsible for one’s own safety is moving out of AoE and watching you don’t out-threaten the tank. Here, players need to be much more active in their own defense. Also, they need to know more about their class than their DPS rotation.

Yeah, I know. But honestly, who looks for such outdoor challenges as a new player? Probably close to no one. Even the step from outdoor to story mode is ridiculously large (or was when I did the last story mode quite some time ago).

CptAurellian.9537:

Yeah, I know. But honestly, who looks for such outdoor challenges as a new player? Probably close to no one. Even the step from outdoor to story mode is ridiculously large (or was when I did the last story mode quite some time ago).

Most of the open world players I run into are in Queensdale. I suspect most of them are down-leveled. Most of the story modes I’ve been in recently seemed unchanged from September. AC is one exception. Its difficulty was adjusted to the point where there are quite a few DE’s more difficult.

The only gear checks in GW2 are in FotM. Everything else can be done easily with level appropriate greens.

Most of the challenge in that specific path of AC comes in learning the encounters, particularly the last boss (it’s my personal least favourite dungeon boss in the game to pug). A lot of dungeon content in GW2 is only hard until you learn the encounter (Kholer is basically about learning how to identify and avoid one attack). Once you’ve done that, it doesn’t really matter how you play, as long as you do the few necessary things right.

Once you’ve learned the encounters most dungeon fights become trivial.

Jeremy.4390:

Any tips on areas other than dungeons to really get some good timing / damage mitigation experience as I’m leveling?

Start and try farming some big worms. They have 2 attacks that put you off (they throw a rock, and they plunge into the ground), so you have to carefully observe their moves in order to know when to dodge. That’ll teach you fundamental skills in GW2: watching and dodging/blocking/attacking through. Then you can move onto other mobs with stun effect (seek hammer users), that’ll train your eye some more.

Cheers.