Guild Wars 2

Does worth to take: Superior Sigil of Impact (10% to stunned foes) + tempest trait Tempest Defense (20% to stunned foes) when KC is at burst phase (he is stunned) and taking up to 375% more dmg?

Great ideia! if those bonus damage modifiers works on his burn Phase, almost 100% sure its worth.

Really good Idea, it should be tested if this Things can give a Damage Boost. Damage from Tempests would be so high it would be Stupid xD

Just saw a post on reddit with a video. Looks like Impact and Tempest Defense do work:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4ok82y/psa_impact_sigil_and_tempest_defense_work_on_keep/

is it worth to use sigil of impact on classes other than ele?

edit:
is it dps increase? sorry for the confusion.

gin.7158:

is it worth to use sigil of impact on classes other than ele?

Not really. Ele’s in a weird spot were that sigil gets the added bonus of tempest defense, so the synergy is too good to pass up.

However, it’s not practical and in the long run that sigil isn’t very good. You’re better off running air/accuracy/whatever other flavor sigil for that extra spike.

That’s entirely up to you to judge. For some people it might be worth it, for others it might not. If you’re swimming in asc weap boxes, then you can easily make a lot of sets for all your characters. If you’re struggling for money, then you might just stick to your main weapon set.

If you’re asking whether it’s a DPS increase, then I’d say probably yeah. I mean it has the same impact (heh) on other classes as it has on ele.

Most groups require Tempests to take Tempests defense at the bare minimum. Impact is an added bonus, but there’s usually more than enough DPS to burn him down to phase.

gin.7158:

is it worth to use sigil of impact on classes other than ele?

edit:
is it dps increase? sorry for the confusion.

Yes. If you do power damage. Almost all of the damage to keep constuct is in that burn phase. Much more than half. So it’s better than sigil of force for that fight.

TexZero.7910:

Not really. Ele’s in a weird spot were that sigil gets the added bonus of tempest defense, so the synergy is too good to pass up.

This is…wrong. The fact that ele already has a similar bonus just makes it less effective, proportionally. As in 1.2 -> 1.3 is an 8.3% increase, while 1.0 -> 1.1 is a 10% increase.

reikken.4961:

gin.7158:

is it worth to use sigil of impact on classes other than ele?

edit:
is it dps increase? sorry for the confusion.

Yes. If you do power damage. Almost all of the damage to keep constuct is in that burn phase. Much more than half. So it’s better than sigil of force for that fight.

TexZero.7910:

Not really. Ele’s in a weird spot were that sigil gets the added bonus of tempest defense, so the synergy is too good to pass up.

This is…wrong. The fact that ele already has a similar bonus just makes it less effective, proportionally. As in 1.2 -> 1.3 is an 8.3% increase, while 1.0 -> 1.1 is a 10% increase.

wait what? so sigil of air + impact? or force + impact?

gin.7158:

reikken.4961:

gin.7158:

is it worth to use sigil of impact on classes other than ele?

edit:
is it dps increase? sorry for the confusion.

Yes. If you do power damage. Almost all of the damage to keep constuct is in that burn phase. Much more than half. So it’s better than sigil of force for that fight.

TexZero.7910:

Not really. Ele’s in a weird spot were that sigil gets the added bonus of tempest defense, so the synergy is too good to pass up.

This is…wrong. The fact that ele already has a similar bonus just makes it less effective, proportionally. As in 1.2 -> 1.3 is an 8.3% increase, while 1.0 -> 1.1 is a 10% increase.

wait what? so sigil of air + impact? or force + impact?

This is incorrect information. reikken is calculating it as if the damage multipliers were additive, but all damage multipliers in GW2 are multiplicative.

This means that you’d calculate the actual damage by doing Base * 1.2 * 1.1 for each of the component parts.

reikken.4961:

TexZero.7910:

Not really. Ele’s in a weird spot were that sigil gets the added bonus of tempest defense, so the synergy is too good to pass up.

This is…wrong. The fact that ele already has a similar bonus just makes it less effective, proportionally. As in 1.2 -> 1.3 is an 8.3% increase, while 1.0 -> 1.1 is a 10% increase.

I’m not going to argue the math of this, its really not worth it for classes other than Ele.

Just look at the common raid builds and ask yourself which sigil you’re going to replace on any of them and stop and think if the 10% damage gain is greater than that of others…. 9 outta 10 times it’s not worth it.

TexZero.7910:

reikken.4961:

TexZero.7910:

Not really. Ele’s in a weird spot were that sigil gets the added bonus of tempest defense, so the synergy is too good to pass up.

This is…wrong. The fact that ele already has a similar bonus just makes it less effective, proportionally. As in 1.2 -> 1.3 is an 8.3% increase, while 1.0 -> 1.1 is a 10% increase.

I’m not going to argue the math of this, its really not worth it for classes other than Ele.

Just look at the common raid builds and ask yourself which sigil you’re going to replace on any of them and stop and think if the 10% damage gain is greater than that of others…. 9 outta 10 times it’s not worth it.

Strictly speaking it’s precisely the same amount of worth it for every single class, because it boosts your damage by precisely 10%.

Eles get the greatest gross damage boost from it, due to their actual damage being highest, so it’s most important that your eles take the sigil.

Calculating all possible % mods:
10% Pyromancer’s Training
10% Burning Rage
20% Bolt to the Heart (under 50% hp)
20% Tempest Defense (vs stunned)
10% Harmonious Conduit (after overload)
10% Scholar rune
10% Food (Seaweed salad)
5% Sigil of Force
15% Grace of the land
10% Sigil of Impact
In best case scenario you would have (without sigil of impact):
1.1*1.1*1.2*1.2*1.1*1.1*1.1*1.05*1.15 = 2.8 dmg mod
with sigil of impact (2.8*1.1) 3.08 dmg mod – so in that manner sigil of impact would increase your base damage by 28% rather than 10% due to multiplicative nature of dmg mods.
Of course you won’t always have 5 stacks of GotL and HC lasts only 4s but as you can see it increases overall dmg way better at burn phase than sigil of air.
But it shines only at classes with lots of % dmg mods

TheLilith.2849:

Calculating all possible % mods:
10% Pyromancer’s Training
10% Burning Rage
20% Bolt to the Heart (under 50% hp)
20% Tempest Defense (vs stunned)
10% Harmonious Conduit (after overload)
10% Scholar rune
10% Food (Seaweed salad)
5% Sigil of Force
15% Grace of the land
10% Sigil of Impact
In best case scenario you would have (without sigil of impact):
1.1*1.1*1.2*1.2*1.1*1.1*1.1*1.05*1.15 = 2.8 dmg mod
with sigil of impact (2.8*1.1) 3.08 dmg mod – so in that manner sigil of impact would increase your base damage by 28% rather than 10% due to multiplicative nature of dmg mods.
Of course you won’t always have 5 stacks of GotL and HC lasts only 4s but as you can see it increases overall dmg way better at burn phase than sigil of air.
But it shines only at classes with lots of % dmg mods

This is a pretty disingenuous way to do the math, and ignores other things as well. Yeah, the sigil provides, in this case, a flat 28% boost of base damage to the final total. However, this is meaningless for comparisons because it varies with the base damage.

The sigil is exactly a 1.1 damage multiplier. It doesn’t matter how many other modifiers you have, it’ll always boost the final result by 1.1. If your damage before the sigil is higher, you’ll get a higher flat boost. If your damage is lower, you’ll get a lower flat boost.

The only thing that matters for comparison is the actual flat damage before the sigil is applied. The number of damage multipliers doesn’t matter if the actual damage is lower for some reason. There’s no need to tally up all those multipliers at all. You can account for the effect of all multipliers by simply asking ‘what is my damage output without the sigil’. Calculate that. Multiply by 1.1, and you get your damage output with the sigil. Subtract the 2 and you get the flat boost.

The more I’ve done this fight, the less worthwhile I think the Sigil of Impact is (unless you’re trying to do a speed run or are using less than 10 people). It’s really not hard to hit the DPS check of this fight when you handle the mechanics correctly and if you’re borking the mechanics, added DPS won’t really make up for it.

For example, if your group is new to the fight, you’ll probably wipe due to merged adds causing mayhem, but once your group can get through the encounter without an add merging, you’ll likely clear it with ease. The only exception is just if everyone is doing really well, but the person playing pong/hockey/whatever you call it with the orb during that phase is struggling, you may need the extra DPS.

However, I think that for your common raider, it’s not worth overriding your regular sigil just for this one fight.

Dahkeus.8243:

The more I’ve done this fight, the less worthwhile I think the Sigil of Impact is (unless you’re trying to do a speed run or are using less than 10 people). It’s really not hard to hit the DPS check of this fight when you handle the mechanics correctly and if you’re borking the mechanics, added DPS won’t really make up for it.

For example, if your group is new to the fight, you’ll probably wipe due to merged adds causing mayhem, but once your group can get through the encounter without an add merging, you’ll likely clear it with ease. The only exception is just if everyone is doing really well, but the person playing pong/hockey/whatever you call it with the orb during that phase is struggling, you may need the extra DPS.

However, I think that for your common raider, it’s not worth overriding your regular sigil just for this one fight.

Well at some point, asc equipment just keeps pilling up coz no new toons. So I just wanna minmax stat. But I’m not sure about the effectiveness coz it only works during burn phase,

gin.7158:

Dahkeus.8243:

The more I’ve done this fight, the less worthwhile I think the Sigil of Impact is (unless you’re trying to do a speed run or are using less than 10 people). It’s really not hard to hit the DPS check of this fight when you handle the mechanics correctly and if you’re borking the mechanics, added DPS won’t really make up for it.

For example, if your group is new to the fight, you’ll probably wipe due to merged adds causing mayhem, but once your group can get through the encounter without an add merging, you’ll likely clear it with ease. The only exception is just if everyone is doing really well, but the person playing pong/hockey/whatever you call it with the orb during that phase is struggling, you may need the extra DPS.

However, I think that for your common raider, it’s not worth overriding your regular sigil just for this one fight.

Well at some point, asc equipment just keeps pilling up coz no new toons. So I just wanna minmax stat. But I’m not sure about the effectiveness coz it only works during burn phase,

Yeah normally I wouldn’t have bothered but I have 4 ascended staffs from raids sitting in my bank so why not. Maybe this isn’t the “common raider” situation but there are certainly at least a few people with extra unused ascended gear and there’s no reason to not use the sigil of impact at that point.

Also I haven’t done any detailed check but it seems likely that an exotic staff with impact is better than an ascended staff without it.

Fay.2357:

all damage multipliers in GW2 are multiplicative.

No, I’ve tested it. They are additive. Damage modifiers of the same type are added together first. For example, +damage and +critical damage (found on some thief traits) are multiplied, but +damage and +damage are added.

reikken.4961:

Fay.2357:

all damage multipliers in GW2 are multiplicative.

No, I’ve tested it. They are additive. Damage modifiers of the same type are added together first. For example, +damage and +critical damage (found on some thief traits) are multiplied, but +damage and +damage are added.

I would very much like to see your tests because this goes against all prior information I have regarding damage stacking in Guild Wars 2, including the wiki which says:

wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage_calculation#Damage_calculation

Damage multipliers combine in a multiplicative fashion rather than additive; i.e. they stack on top of each other instead of being calculated separately. For example, the Superior Sigil of Force (5%), Superior Sigil of the Night (10%), a 10% trait, a 20% trait and the (6) bonus of the Superior Rune of the Scholar (10%) combine for a final damage bonus of 1.05 * 1.1 * 1.1 * 1.2 * 1.1 = 1.677 or approximately 67.7%.

Air sigil on staff ele? Force/Accuracy please.

reikken.4961:

Fay.2357:

all damage multipliers in GW2 are multiplicative.

No, I’ve tested it. They are additive. Damage modifiers of the same type are added together first. For example, +damage and +critical damage (found on some thief traits) are multiplied, but +damage and +damage are added.

This is incorrect.

NikeEU.7690:

Air sigil on staff ele? Force/Accuracy please.

I did say or whatever your sigil of preference is. It was in relation to non-ele users and it’s relevance was will you take force/x or force/impact for KC. Honestly Force/X whatever your flavor is is better than force impact for non-ele.

NikeEU.7690:

reikken.4961:

Fay.2357:

all damage multipliers in GW2 are multiplicative.

No, I’ve tested it. They are additive. Damage modifiers of the same type are added together first. For example, +damage and +critical damage (found on some thief traits) are multiplied, but +damage and +damage are added.

This is incorrect.

Yeah, they’re all multiplicative. This became drastically harder to test with the removal of steady weapons (anet plz), but damage testing I did back then ended up with funky numbers until I realized that they were doing everything multiplicatively, even within traits. For example, the mesmer trait compounding power (3% damage per illusion) is even multiplicative with itself, having true values of 1.03 * 1.03 * 1.03 instead of just 1.03, 1.06, and 1.09 per illusion.

Really it’s an issue due to GW2 being imprecise with notation. Path of Exile does this really well. Any damage modifier that says ‘increased’ is additive with all other ‘increased’ modifiers, while any modifier that says ‘more’ is multiplicative.

Fay.2357:

Really it’s an issue due to GW2 being imprecise with notation. Path of Exile does this really well. Any damage modifier that says ‘increased’ is additive with all other ‘increased’ modifiers, while any modifier that says ‘more’ is multiplicative.

When I came back to this game after playing path of exile for a while I was really confused by the multipliers. “You mean EVERYTHING is a more modifier??” from the point of view of a poe player, the damage scaling in this game is completely insane.

but yeah I wish gw2 was more clear about how mutipliers work, rather than the only info being a single paragraph on the wiki.

TexZero.7910:

NikeEU.7690:

Air sigil on staff ele? Force/Accuracy please.

I did say or whatever your sigil of preference is. It was in relation to non-ele users and it’s relevance was will you take force/x or force/impact for KC. Honestly Force/X whatever your flavor is is better than force impact for non-ele.

Eh I’m pretty sure impact is better on non-ele DPS classes as well, but that’s pretty much just guardian and it’s a hassle to switch out accuracy since you have to change gear/food to hit crit cap. It’s a hassle on ele as well and if I didn’t already have a ridiculous amount of precision food I wouldn’t even bother because it’s so easy to phase KC with 4-5 force/accuracy eles anyway.