Guild Wars 2

Hello, I would like to get some advice, I am not sure how to clasify toxic behavior in the dungeon. I just experienced very poor behavior german group which appearantly had fun from slowing down the run at the last fractal and then they kicked me from group just before last boss died.

this is what the most vocal one (when he was rarely writting in english) wrote:
“U R the worst engineer
I ever seen
Wanna get kicked ?
In last fractal ?”

Gotta say I am not specialist to my class and they run most encounters different ways than I have seen at any PUG so far, but I don’t think I have slowed them down to the grade they had to remove me from the group.

I have seen many times such behavior at World of Warcraft players where it was punishable as it was classified as griefing, but I am not sure about GW2.

I can understand those are just “keyboard heroes” which wants to make fun from the others, but in my opinion it is damaging good name of the GW2 community as a whole.

I am game developper myself and supporter of the mmo games and community behavior was always sensitive issue.

this is from wowwiki definition:
http://www.wowwiki.com/Griefing

You can report them for griefing.

Iris Ng.9845:

You can report them for griefing.

Yes, it looks like it is violation of Rules of Conduct
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/legal/guild-wars-2-conduct-breaches-outcomes/

Title is misleading.

Looks like you were kicked for doing a poor job from their perspective, not for fun. Your comment at the end only encouraged it too so in my opinion based off of what you’ve shown you deserve no sympathy.

I get it, you’re unhappy because a sizable amount of time went to waste, but in the future learn what you could’ve done differently to avoid this same outcome. If you died only once this entire fractal run I’m willing to bet this wouldn’t have happened. You’re conveniently leaving out a lot of detail.

If you don’t want to get kicked, don’t literally ask to be kicked, in a sarcastic way no less.

What you should have done: block him. From what you’ve shown I doubt he would be actioned for harassment or verbal abuse, as obnoxious as it was – but you can send a report with the screenshot afterwards. On the last fractal you probably don’t need in-depth chat coordination, so just block everyone who is insulting you, keep your head down, do your best. The more you engage with them, the worse you will play and it will just goad them on even more.

This is not me defending his “right” to be a jerk to you. This is a way to survive in pugs without loosing your cool, and avoid making yourself a target for kicks.

I have experienced such behavior quite frequently in WoW in last several years. Pressure was usually higher prior expansion as people were bored of the old content so they just waited for opportunity to pick somebody for “little torture”. Group of four guildies had basically full controll over party kicks. Group of twelve guildies had power to mess with whole raid in LFR.

Every such tool has two edges and can be misused – Blizzard themselves had to apply extra rules to prevent kicks in the middle of the fight and during distribution of the loot, for example. More rules didn’t solve much, because it was misused from the other side. AFKer, for example, who was literary unkickable during whole run. That was other extreme.

So the general rule was to have hard shell, ignore trolls and bullies, don’t feed them and hope to never meet them again in the next run.

I am expecting the same from the GW2 PUG community in general. But to be fair I am still very positively surprised : previous 15 fractal runs I have run so far people were usually polite. Even on my very first run when I was total noobie. So meeting the rude ones was just a matter of time.

Robert.8206:

I am not sure how to clasify toxic behavior in the dungeon.

The word I’d use in this particular instance is “dong.”

You were in a group of dongs.

Purple Miku.7032:

Title is misleading.

Looks like you were kicked for doing a poor job from their perspective, not for fun. Your comment at the end only encouraged it too so in my opinion based off of what you’ve shown you deserve no sympathy.

I get it, you’re unhappy because a sizable amount of time went to waste, but in the future learn what you could’ve done differently to avoid this same outcome. If you died only once this entire fractal run I’m willing to bet this wouldn’t have happened. You’re conveniently leaving out a lot of detail.

Well since we can’t know the whole story I’m going to take this side. It looks like you were probably carried the entire fractal and then asked to be kicked (sarcastic or not) when the group had difficulty on the end boss. It isn’t griefing if they needed to replace the weakest link to finish the dungeon, you are just not good enough.

p.s. you should run at least a lv 10 to raise your personal level, 8 would do nothing for you.

The person, I’ll call him “K”, is right, who cares? Surely not ANET. This is all part of the NPE.

Kupper.8074:

you are just not good enough.

We’re talking about a party having difficulties handling this at lvl 8. It’s a lowbie fractal. He might not be good enough but the case could be made about the rest too as lowbie fractals hardly qualifies as “challenging” content.

I don’t see anything wrong with a party kicking a player they don’t want to group with, but that should be done early during the run, not right at the end. Doing this at the 4th fractal definitely is griefing and being a sorry excuse for a human being. I’ve been in parties that have done this and always felt shamed for being part of this (indirectly, because I never confirmed the kicks, not at the very last fractal). I then usually avoid grouping with the people I’ve witnessed doing this.

@OP I don’t think there is anything you can do about it though. Anet doesn’t seem to have much support beyond the basics, it’s not like some subbed MMOs with active game masters. You can report it, but the truth is that nothing will come out of it.

Kupper.8074:

It isn’t griefing if they needed to replace the weakest link to finish the dungeon, you are just not good enough ( for level 8 ).

p.s. you should run at least a lv 10 to raise your personal level, 8 would do nothing for you.

Wow, dat irony doe. Can you be more condescending to say that someone is not good enough so that they deserve to be kicked at the last fractal but at the same time preach that they should do a higher level instead???

Is it some new way of victim blaming?

Personally I would not kick a player for being bad. I have sat in 3hour mai trin fights and I blame myself just as much as I blame the bad players. If you are a good player you should be able to carry and therefore bad players should be a non issue unless of course you are not really a good player and can not carry and in which case bad player complaining about a bad player is ironic.

Iris Ng.9845:

Kupper.8074:

It isn’t griefing if they needed to replace the weakest link to finish the dungeon, you are just not good enough ( for level 8 ).

p.s. you should run at least a lv 10 to raise your personal level, 8 would do nothing for you.

Wow, dat irony doe. Can you be more condescending to say that someone is not good enough so that they deserve to be kicked at the last fractal but at the same time preach that they should do a higher level instead???

Is it some new way of victim blaming?

100% agree.

Nikaido.3457:

Kupper.8074:

you are just not good enough.

@OP I don’t think there is anything you can do about it though. Anet doesn’t seem to have much support beyond the basics, it’s not like some subbed MMOs with active game masters. You can report it, but the truth is that nothing will come out of it.

I beg to difffer. They can be reported, yes. And GMs DO respond (we’ve seen evidence from devs, screen shots, chat logs, etc.) and yes there are GMs in game. As far as nothing being done? Not exactly true. When the GMs respond they usually are invisible, but they are there. They also review chat logs, and combat logs to determine if it was griefing, or the player themselves had a legit reason to be kicked. And as we only know one side of the story (the OPs, and not a whole picture either), we can be assured that a GM responded to the report, and took appropriate action against the rest of the group, whether that be a warning, suspension, or no action if they were not at fault.

EcoRI.9273:

Personally I would not kick a player for being bad. I have sat in 3hour mai trin fights and I blame myself just as much as I blame the bad players. If you are a good player you should be able to carry and therefore bad players should be a non issue unless of course you are not really a good player and can not carry and in which case bad player complaining about a bad player is ironic.

Mai being the exception to this rule. Some classes just don’t have enough block/reflect and condi clear to deal with here ports and swashbuckilng to carry the group.
Out of that group i’d say ele with focus and traited in water could have carried. Maybe the warrior with traited WH and banner but certainly not the thieves or the engi.

From the screen it looks like you died to the bombardement. Yeah they probably wanted to replace the weakest link to get it over with quickly. Undoebtedly a kitten move but understandable when you can’t seem to beat the boss due to one eprson being bad.

For the future, switch to shield and block her teleport attck – she always targets the person farthest away from her. If you are low on health, try to get close enough to her to manipulate the targetting.

edit: I know lvl 8 should be faceroll but it’s a miracle they got to the boss with 2 thieves and no guard :P

Crovax.7854:

it’s a miracle they got to the boss with 2 thieves and no guard :P

whys that?

Crovax.7854:

. .but certainly not the engi. .

>.< dont.. want.. to.. derail.. thread..

Some pretty horrifying answers in here. The OP posts his side and leaves out the rest of the run and some of you immediately side with the other guys. The sane thing would be to remain neutral until you get more information.
If someone is terribly bad it will be apparent before getting Mai Trin to 20% and then there is no reason to kick that person. Furthermore, laying the blame almost entirely on the OP for simply stating that he took screenshots and then following that with a sarcastic “go ahead” is a bit close to victim blaming. He did not even reply with insults, which would have been understandable (and I would have done it) but stayed rather cool in the face of such adversity.

How he can be the target of so much hostility in this thread baffles me.

Please report them and let’s hope that they get what they deserve.

PS:

…Your comment at the end only encouraged it too so in my opinion based off of what you’ve shown you deserve no sympathy….

I mean seriously? What was he supposed to do? Bow down and apologise even if he might not have been the problem at all?

Sarahfull.4930:

Crovax.7854:

. .but certainly not the engi. .

>.< dont.. want.. to.. derail.. thread..

The engi could easily carry. There, I derailed the thread for you

Let me open the windows to air this leet atmosphere.

But everyone here blaming the OP, even if he did die, mai trin with 4 at lv 8 is very doable, correct? So if OP dying was keeping them, does say something..im not the best player, in fact i am far from anything close to it but I have kept my own against mai when forced into solo situations because party was so bad that they had to glitch ellen and relog multiple times for dying. Have done this as both ele and warrior, so imo does not really excuse their behavior.

There is a lot of time in fractals to decide if a player truly is so toxic that you’d rather get rid of him through a kick than do anything else (including trying to tell him how to handle a situation). If you haven’t kicked said person by the 4th fractal, and decide to do it right at the end when (depending on the amount of dps seen in the pugs, sometimes hour+ long run) possibly an hour has already passed. You know what? You’re a kittenhole. That part is not debatable. No matter how bad OP is as a player (which is something we don’t really know about.) or good the party was (which is not debatable, if they can’t carry at lvl 8 they’re as bad as the man they criticize.) that part is not debatable, that party was filled with absolutely sorry excuses for human beings. That is all. You’ve already figured out if the player was kick worthy by fractal 2, if you’ve kept it all the way through and decide to grief after that much time has passed, there is no defending your party.

I don’t see anyone blaming the real problem. Mai Trin.

Nothing wrong with Mai Trin.

Acotje.5689:

Nothing wrong with Mai Trin.

It’s a great fight (though i wish she was larger), the only problem is how much tougher that fight is compared to the other end fights.

I’d love if they would get rid of the RNG, and give bonuses for tougher/less done fractals, sort of scaling/stock market style. Reward goes up as frequency drops.

Veydar.5017:

Some pretty horrifying answers in here. The OP posts his side and leaves out the rest of the run and some of you immediately side with the other guys. The sane thing would be to remain neutral until you get more information.
If someone is terribly bad it will be apparent before getting Mai Trin to 20% and then there is no reason to kick that person. Furthermore, laying the blame almost entirely on the OP for simply stating that he took screenshots and then following that with a sarcastic “go ahead” is a bit close to victim blaming. He did not even reply with insults, which would have been understandable (and I would have done it) but stayed rather cool in the face of such adversity.

How he can be the target of so much hostility in this thread baffles me.

Please report them and let’s hope that they get what they deserve.

PS:

…Your comment at the end only encouraged it too so in my opinion based off of what you’ve shown you deserve no sympathy….

I mean seriously? What was he supposed to do? Bow down and apologise even if he might not have been the problem at all?

I think the guys were being jerks – I said as much in my post. If you look at this in the lense of whats “fair”, the guys insulting him where in the wrong, obviously.

But at some point you have to let go of what is “fair” and realize that when you pug, you’re taking a risk. Some people are jerks, and fundamentally you cannot control how they behave. With that in mind, what pragmatic approach can you take to minimize risk, while maintaining respect for yourself and others around you? That’s why I recommended blocking rather than engaging.

Think of it this way: what was the best thing that could come out of the OP saying “I’m screen-shotting this so go ahead and kick me, I’ll report you.” Given the tone of his insults, would K—— say “Oh, sorry, I didn’t know. I hope I didn’t hurt your feelings.” ? No, it just escalates the situation. Does this mean that it is “almost entirely” the OP’s fault he got kicked? No. Can he do something in the future that will make him less likely to loose an hour+ worth of work because of some obnoxious party mates? Yes.

And, as I said, it doesn’t hurt anything to send in a report. In my experience it takes something pretty extreme for someone to be actioned with any consequence, so it’s best to temper expectations.

I didn’t mean my post to come off as horrifying or hostile, if it did I apologize. It was a genuine attempt to share a survival strategy from someone who pugs fractals daily.

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Sarahfull.4930:

Crovax.7854:

. .but certainly not the engi. .

>.< dont.. want.. to.. derail.. thread..

The engi could easily carry. There, I derailed the thread for you

Oh. I guess I never played with a good engi then. Almost no experience with that class in PvE so I assumed since in over 2 years I never saw it happen that engis can’t carry, at least not to the extent of a guard or ele.
No need to derail anything. Just shows how small the percentage of good engis actually is. (I usually play in the 40 and 50 brackets).

Crovax.7854:

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Sarahfull.4930:

Crovax.7854:

. .but certainly not the engi. .

>.< dont.. want.. to.. derail.. thread..

The engi could easily carry. There, I derailed the thread for you

Oh. I guess I never played with a good engi then. Almost no experience with that class in PvE so I assumed since in over 2 years I never saw it happen that engis can’t carry, at least not to the extent of a guard or ele.
No need to derail anything. Just shows how small the percentage of good engis actually is. (I usually play in the 40 and 50 brackets).

Continuing derail:

I don’t think it’s the percentage of engis that are bad as much as not a lot of people play engi as a main pve class.

I very rarely run into engis, but for the most part the engis I run into are more likely to be good players than say, the guards I run into pugging.

The first time I met Nevets was in a fractal pug. He carried my entire group (before fractured) and he is my favorite engi in all of gw2. I haven’t run with Sarah, but I’m sure she is also great. The type of player who chooses engi as a pve main I think is a special type of person.

Engi’s are great, unless they camp flamethrower or pistol!
Also this thread reminds me of this:

http://i.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/article/9/4/1/242941_v1.jpg

Gyler.8150:

Engi’s are great, unless they camp flamethrower or pistol!
Also this thread reminds me of this:

http://i.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/article/9/4/1/242941_v1.jpg

I mean, he was sort of asking for it, wasn’t he? I can’t have sympathy for someone who gets hurt after sarcastically asking to be.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

Crovax.7854:

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Sarahfull.4930:

Crovax.7854:

. .but certainly not the engi. .

>.< dont.. want.. to.. derail.. thread..

The engi could easily carry. There, I derailed the thread for you

Oh. I guess I never played with a good engi then. Almost no experience with that class in PvE so I assumed since in over 2 years I never saw it happen that engis can’t carry, at least not to the extent of a guard or ele.
No need to derail anything. Just shows how small the percentage of good engis actually is. (I usually play in the 40 and 50 brackets).

Continuing derail:

I don’t think it’s the percentage of engis that are bad as much as not a lot of people play engi as a main pve class.

I very rarely run into engis, but for the most part the engis I run into are more likely to be good players than say, the guards I run into pugging.

The first time I met Nevets was in a fractal pug. He carried my entire group (before fractured) and he is my favorite engi in all of gw2. I haven’t run with Sarah, but I’m sure she is also great. The type of player who chooses engi as a pve main I think is a special type of person.

Lilith too kind!!! I’m an Engi main, it’s true, and I know lots of little Engi exploits in fractals to make things go smoother, but I’m not that great. I actually frequently die to Mai because when you get to Fractal 4 in a pug and it’s Mai you just get so disheartened and stop trying.

But the point is a good Engi could solo Mai in Zerk, and a decent Engi could face tank her the whole fight with Cleric’s or Nomad’s gear.

The best pug Mai fight I ever did had 4 zerkers standing at the edge of melee range and a full ascended nomad warrior face tanking Mai so she didn’t teleport, got hit by lightning the full duration each time, and died quickly. Engi has the potential to be just as bunkery if geared right, and a good Engi wouldn’t even need to be geared right – lots of invis/invuln/dodge potential to really help out the team if they’re struggling.

@the Op:
I do believe there is a time and a place to kick people from groups and thats near the start, although as others have said, there is no way to know the whole story. There could be or not be more to this and we will never know. reguardless, being kicked that far in would really hurt

@lilith:
aw, thank you. I would like to fix that if your still up for fractals sometime. It would be an honnor to do a fractal with you.

Crovax.7854:

Nevets Crimsonwing.5271:

Sarahfull.4930:

Crovax.7854:

. .but certainly not the engi. .

>.< dont.. want.. to.. derail.. thread..

The engi could easily carry. There, I derailed the thread for you

Oh. I guess I never played with a good engi then. Almost no experience with that class in PvE so I assumed since in over 2 years I never saw it happen that engis can’t carry, at least not to the extent of a guard or ele.
No need to derail anything. Just shows how small the percentage of good engis actually is. (I usually play in the 40 and 50 brackets).

One Word. Immobilize

:D

I’ve certainly learned it’s power on say Cliffside.

Engi can do a bit of everything. Need reflects? Engi can do it. Need stability, can do it. Need condi cleanse? Can do. Vuln/might? Sure np. Are you dying? here let me blast my water field a couple times for ya. Stealth, sure.

SO many things they can do, sure not everything is very strong, and sometimes you’re sacrificing a lot to get it (if you REALLY need reflects fortified turrets is solid, but you lose a lot to get it, though if you’re not in need of a ton elixer U is not a huge loss).

It’s just a profession not many really get into. It certainly is a finger tying profession like Ele, but there’s no completely OP DPS thing so they aren’t as wanted in the record runs so people just kind of dismiss them.

Veydar.5017:

Purple Miku.7032:

…Your comment at the end only encouraged it too so in my opinion based off of what you’ve shown you deserve no sympathy….

I mean seriously? What was he supposed to do? Bow down and apologise even if he might not have been the problem at all?

He died and if someone said he’s terrible he probably kittened up pretty badly. People don’t normally react that way for no apparent reason and someone posting a thread like this isn’t likely to admit they play poorly because they usually try to demonize the people they’re posting about as much as they can.

He probably should have apologized for making a mistake. Either that or just not have responded. I don’t see what the problem is with apologizing after messing up… ?

If I do something stupid I normally type something like “kitten … misclicked sry :S” or whatever. Sometimes it’s self explanatory and not needed, but everyone makes mistakes sometimes.

When you pug, it’s to be expected that often times people are going to be less forgiving because nobody knows each other. You’re taking a risk.

They were obviously jerks for kicking him, but I don’t sympathize with the OP because he could’ve handled it better. I’ve seen threads like this tons and tons of times and every single time the person in the OP is always trying to play it off like they got kicked for no reason at all.

If you find yourself the target of this kind of behavior, the best advice I can give is to not get angry because it just makes you lose sympathy from the other party members. Kicking requires 3/5 of the players to agree, so you just have to have two people disagree with the decision.

Nokaru.7831:

If you find yourself the target of this kind of behavior, the best advice I can give is to not get angry because it just makes you lose sympathy from the other party members. Kicking requires 3/5 of the players to agree, so you just have to have two people disagree with the decision.

only takes 2.

Almost everybody in this sub complained when they removed instance leaders because you wouldn’t be ‘safe’ anymore. Yet whenever pug victims post in here you put at least 50% of the blame on them.

Some pugs are jerks and people do get kicked for no reason at all. Same language/guild groups are the most horrid . Even asking for a wor during shaman fractal can earn you an ‘are you going to shut your face or getting kicked?’

I agree he shouldn’t have provoked them but come on, he clearly wasn’t the problem, they were.

yeah… what’s more likely, him being kicked at last boss of lvl 8 fractals for being a terrible player or the group of guildies giving his spot to another guildie?

The group was apparently speaking mostly german the whole time, so they weren’t being co-operative. They had their own tactics, which means they probably just do fractals inside the guild and don’t give much kitten about others. If they thought he was a bad player, they should have kicked him at the 2nd fractal or so. And considering the guy talk liek dis m8 and insults him for being the worst engi player “ever”, I don’t think the OP should have apologized.

It’s a level 8 fractals, you’ll kinda have to assume that there’s people that have done fractals for maybe 10 times at max, and if you don’t want that just add it in LFG. And Mai Trin is not that difficult boss, you just need 2 decent players who can ress the rest for the fight to get through it. There’s absolutely no reason to kick someone for being bad at THAT boss at level 8 fractal, and if you need to “kick out the weakest link”… umm. Maybe they should have looked in the mirror, sucked it up and learnt the fight instead of blaming it on the pug?

On the other hand, if the OP joined a group with label “5k+ AP”, was being obnoxious about his 1337 skillz and failing all the time, then yeah, pretty much earnt kick. I don’t know if it’s so, but it’s good to recognize some people are just kittens and there’s not always “two sides of the story”. It’s good to have a positive outlook on human kind and assume there’s good in every person, but if it goes to victim blaming… you become an enabler for making it alright to do bad things to people in weaker position.

Sometimes all you need in a group play is a bit of empathy. If you’re good enough to be elitist, hadn’t you better off solo or duo or running with your guildies/friends. I ran across this leet couple, who in the process of a mere Arah p1, kicked a total of 4 poor pugs. Reasons? Accidental pull trash, can’t skip, etc etc. These were some sneers my friend and I exchanged during the run. Not gonna censor anything. I wish I had screenshot my friend’s ragequit at the end. It was funny as hell.

By the ways, next time you make a mistake, please don’t hesitate to tell your group that Your fps drops/It’s too laggy/My skills bug, Anet fix please!/This game (boss/rng) is kitten. It’s totally not the matter of your poor play or misclick (screw you skillclickerz!). People will surely understand. Been there, done that! /sarcasm

Purple Miku.7032:

Veydar.5017:

Purple Miku.7032:

…Your comment at the end only encouraged it too so in my opinion based off of what you’ve shown you deserve no sympathy….

I mean seriously? What was he supposed to do? Bow down and apologise even if he might not have been the problem at all?

He died and if someone said he’s terrible he probably kittened up pretty badly. People don’t normally react that way for no apparent reason and someone posting a thread like this isn’t likely to admit they play poorly because they usually try to demonize the people they’re posting about as much as they can.

He probably should have apologized for making a mistake. Either that or just not have responded. I don’t see what the problem is with apologizing after messing up… ?

If I do something stupid I normally type something like “kitten … misclicked sry :S” or whatever. Sometimes it’s self explanatory and not needed, but everyone makes mistakes sometimes.

When you pug, it’s to be expected that often times people are going to be less forgiving because nobody knows each other. You’re taking a risk.

They were obviously jerks for kicking him, but I don’t sympathize with the OP because he could’ve handled it better. I’ve seen threads like this tons and tons of times and every single time the person in the OP is always trying to play it off like they got kicked for no reason at all.

Why are you assuming that when one PUG tells the other PUG he/she is terrible, that that’s a correct assessment? Maybe someone else screwed up and he died? Maybe they all screwed up and died?
You’re acting as if you had some kind of metric on these threads and occurrences. If you do, please share. If you don’t, stay neutral. No one is asking you to sympathize, I am asking you to not take sides unless you have a valid reason to. Then again, who am I to ask anything.

And to the whole debate about how his reply could only lead to negative outcomes: So what? I believe that no one should have to take bullkitten and if his kind of reply was enough for them to kick him at the last boss then they have a problem with their attitude and his snarky answer was fairly irrelevant.

Jerus.4350:

only takes 2.

Maybe I phrased it wrong, but I meant it requires 3 people to agree that “I should kick this guy.”

Nokaru.7831:

Jerus.4350:

only takes 2.

Maybe I phrased it wrong, but I meant it requires 3 people to agree that “I should kick this guy.”

1 to initiate and 1 to accept… how are you figuring 3?

dont even try to be sarcastic where theres a language barrier as theres a really good chance that itll be misinterpreted and youll get what you ask for and not what you wish for

Jerus.4350:

Nokaru.7831:

Jerus.4350:

only takes 2.

Maybe I phrased it wrong, but I meant it requires 3 people to agree that “I should kick this guy.”

1 to initiate and 1 to accept… how are you figuring 3?

Probably read the patch notes about the kick change that never actually happenned… before ANET stealth changed the patch notes with no “oh sorry, we put an incorrect change in the notes” note.

Veydar.5017:

Purple Miku.7032:

Veydar.5017:

Purple Miku.7032:

…Your comment at the end only encouraged it too so in my opinion based off of what you’ve shown you deserve no sympathy….

I mean seriously? What was he supposed to do? Bow down and apologise even if he might not have been the problem at all?

He died and if someone said he’s terrible he probably kittened up pretty badly. People don’t normally react that way for no apparent reason and someone posting a thread like this isn’t likely to admit they play poorly because they usually try to demonize the people they’re posting about as much as they can.

He probably should have apologized for making a mistake. Either that or just not have responded. I don’t see what the problem is with apologizing after messing up… ?

If I do something stupid I normally type something like “kitten … misclicked sry :S” or whatever. Sometimes it’s self explanatory and not needed, but everyone makes mistakes sometimes.

When you pug, it’s to be expected that often times people are going to be less forgiving because nobody knows each other. You’re taking a risk.

They were obviously jerks for kicking him, but I don’t sympathize with the OP because he could’ve handled it better. I’ve seen threads like this tons and tons of times and every single time the person in the OP is always trying to play it off like they got kicked for no reason at all.

Why are you assuming that when one PUG tells the other PUG he/she is terrible, that that’s a correct assessment? Maybe someone else screwed up and he died? Maybe they all screwed up and died?
You’re acting as if you had some kind of metric on these threads and occurrences. If you do, please share. If you don’t, stay neutral. No one is asking you to sympathize, I am asking you to not take sides unless you have a valid reason to. Then again, who am I to ask anything.

And to the whole debate about how his reply could only lead to negative outcomes: So what? I believe that no one should have to take bullkitten and if his kind of reply was enough for them to kick him at the last boss then they have a problem with their attitude and his snarky answer was fairly irrelevant.

There is no way that you can die at Mai Trin without it being your own fault with the exception of lagging out/disconnecting or doing some tactic involving group stealth that someone messes up for. Despite the fact that the cannon phase involves RNG there’s always a way to survive.

So no, I don’t have metrics, I have knowledge of the encounter. I don’t agree with people being jerks to one another but I don’t have any sympathy for the OP because as I’ve stated before, they could’ve handled it better if they didn’t want to be kicked.

Especially if people are in the same guild as one another, you’re taking a huge risk by encouraging people to kick you if you don’t want that to happen.

Not even once did I condone the behavior of the person chatting.

I’d just rather post something more useful such as telling the OP that next time they get into a situation like this, try swallowing their pride and apologizing with them just to get the daily and avoid getting booted. I personally would rather get kicked, but if I got into the position like that before (and I have) I wouldn’t post about it here if I knew they kicked me because of a dispute in chat. That’d be my own fault.

Iris Ng.9845:

snip

errr …. care to explain what’s going on in those screenshots?

Yeah Iris I’d like to know the context too, considering Ambro and I are both mentioned. I don’t recognise the names in the party chat.

@Miku: Oh, one is in the guild named (something like) Burning Speed [Hawt] so I recognized it as your side guild? If it’s not then it’s my bad.

@Tom: I joined these guys’ lfg a couple days ago. They are solid but they whined too much and went on kick rampage. When I saw the guild tag, I was reminded of Miku’s side guild. Out of respect, I didn’t say anything during the run. But it went on rather ridiculous with the elitist attitude and my friend’s rage was rather funny and in line with my opinion about “party kick and blaming” in general. So I quoted.

…I’m not in any guild with the tag [Hawt] though. Remember I’m on EU – I wouldn’t know of any of these random NA guilds.