Guild Wars 2

So this happened to me twice just now. I got kicked when the members of the group found out I was level 52, which is apparently too low level for a AC explorable mode (level 35 dungeon). Before today I was running AC explorable on this character just fine and I never even noticed that this was uncommon. Completed story and all paths without any issues in different pugs.

Are these dungeons supposed to be hard and do people actually feel this way?

People are starting to become more and more elitist in this game. I always invite people regardless of level as long as they meet the recommended level. I think it’s ridiculous and selfish of the community to not allow non lvl 80’s to join lower level dungeons.

I can understand why Arenanet decided to cave and add levels to the game but it’s really firing back on itself because with the lack of being able to check for gear people resort to pathetic elitist attitudes like levels to judge whether someone is worthy to join dungeon parties.

Don’t worry though there are plenty of people out there who know that it doesn’t matter. Your best bet is to join a guild that likes dungeons and who have a friendly community.

Competent people want to speed run AC. Trying to teach a new person all the shortcuts and hoping they don’t screw them up is too much work, and moreover contradicts the whole point of speed running.

Incompetent people can barely complete it at all, and think that lower levels and particular class compositions actually make a meaningful difference compared to knowing which utility skills to bring and when to dodge.

Level 80 doesn’t mean you are competent and not being 80 does not mean you are not competent…. I already have a level 80, so what the hell?

Lvl 80 in full exotic feel at least 50% less effective than lvl 35s , so its understandable.

Ebs.6280:

Level 80 doesn’t mean you are competent and not being 80 does not mean you are not competent…. I already have a level 80, so what the hell?

I never said anything about whether or not YOU were incompetent. I was talking about whether the people in the party you’re trying to join are competent.

Many games have this phenomenon. It’s all about their convenience. That’s their privilege. However, it’s too bad that some people don’t give a rat’s kitten about anyone else.

My philosophy is that if u complain about so-called incompetent players but make no effort to teach and help them learn the content (that means suffering more than 1 wipe) then youre part of the problem.

Level matters to a degree, but not a high enough one where its the deciding factor concerning who joins a group and who doesnt.

Repair bills, while mildly annoying, can be made back in hours.

Thats just my take.

“Speed Run” is often just another way of saying “Exploit.” The level 80s may assume that, at level 50x, you’re not jaded enough to skip the non-boss mobs using rest tactics that are clearly not part of ANet’s vision of gameplay.

Born.1745:

“Speed Run” is often just another way of saying “Exploit.” The level 80s may assume that, at level 50x, you’re not jaded enough to skip the non-boss mobs using rest tactics that are clearly not part of ANet’s vision of gameplay.

Have fun living in your own world of self-imposed challenges designed to feed your own sense of self-righteousness. Meanwhile I’ll do the dungeon as ANet implemented it, and that means skipping anything that’s not required and not rewarding.

Honestly, if a group of 80s kicks you because you’re too “low level”, chances are that group was going to suck anyways and you’ll probably be faster finding another group.

What server are you on? Because if its the same as me then there is a strong chance I was in the group that kicked you. You will also be pleased to know that we completed it in record time with no problems, as per usual.

omgwtflolbbl.7142:

Honestly, if a group of 80s kicks you because you’re too “low level”, chances are that group was going to suck anyways and you’ll probably be faster finding another group.

Guess not.

As about 4 hours ago, i just kicked someone from a group for being Lv 50 something. I did clearly state I was looking for Lv 80s.

I do understand that being lv 80 does not mean you have skill, however it does help reduced the odds of getting less experience players (as I like to call them the noobies).

For your record I did complete my run in great time (as per usual).

If it was for: Path 1/2 level shouldn’t be an issue. I run with low levels and I ran it a lot.

If they were doing path 3, they probably wanted all the DPS they could muster.

Edit: As far as 50% less effective. Sorry I will take a level 35 mesmer with haste bubble over an 80 non mesmer anyday. Love that thing. The amount of DPS that thing helps others put it far surpasses most random level 80’s.

Elitists love having their way and sometimes shows off their arrogance as well. I would know— I used to be one back during my hardcore raiding days. I’ve become a bit more humble now.

With that said, I think the Party UI should just show the scaled level (with a down arrow) instead of the true level to minimize chances of snarky party leaders for booting you out for being “underleveled”. Sure the party leader might ask to link your highest level armor piece if the leader doesn’t recognize your armor skin, or ask you to port to a high-level waypoint (like somewhere in Orr); but the more hoops that they have to go through to find out how “pathetic” you are, the more likely they won’t bother in the long run.

Then again, I have yet to be asked why I’m wearing the skin of level 25 Karma armor for one of my sets. (I personally can’t stand the look of the crafted Barbaric armor set)

Just be fortunate that there’s no /inspect feature at this time. Personally, I would feel a lot more comfortable linking relevant information about my gear and traits to the party leader than having someone snooping me for more information than they should about me; but that’s a totally different thread all together.

You do realize that a large portion of those ‘noobies’ are actually players who are playing on an alt.

huehuehue we kicked a load of noobz who weren’t 80 and completed it in record time, was totally cash br0, you mad?

lolz, sorry but that sounds pretty much like the past couple of responses,
YES there’s a few paths that really require some higher level pugs, but really if you’re just kicking people off say path 1 ac etc cos it will be a tiny bit slower you’re just part of that horrid attitude that kills a lot of MMO games stone dead.
There’s no need for the insane amount of level-ism, class-ism and build-ism that goes on, not in GW2… I advocate asking people to mix it up and come prepared with team utilities as best they can of course. But to deny people pre-80 because you’re too lazy to ask if they’re on an alt, or to deliberately cram your team with only 80’s cos it’s a “tiny bit faster” is just so darned pathetic it makes my head hurt.

And yes, you guys get balled out on chat and sneered at for this exact thing, it doesn’t make much difference of course, because very quickly it becomes apparent players with these outlooks don’t really give a hoot about anyone but themselves and should be leaving group content alone. and should in fact be playing a single player game due to serious anti-social attitudes.

LoL… at doing the same level 35 dungeons over and over again with a full group of level 80’s and then bragging about how fast you were.

No one is impressed.

Most people don’t understand anything about the way that the game’s downscaling works. The consolation for being kicked by someone who doesn’t think that you’re a high enough level is, that player is almost guaranteed to have a shaky understanding of the game’s actual mechanics. There’s really nothing to be done about it, though.

Crater.1625:

Most people don’t understand anything about the way that the game’s downscaling works. The consolation for being kicked by someone who doesn’t think that you’re a high enough level is, that player is almost guaranteed to have a shaky understanding of the game’s actual mechanics. There’s really nothing to be done about it, though.

This. A level 35 wearing full greens would perform better than a level 80 wearing full blues. Unfortunately people just assume level 80 = intelligent.

I don’t look at your level – I rather look at your achievement points (AP) (i.e. experience).

I rather have a person on a lvl 35 alt and > 1000 AP than someone with level 80 and 500 AP. Maybe one or two newbies (who listen) per run is fine, but a load of them (three or more) is sure disaster.

I don’t play plate classes, and I often find other parties not wanting to take my cloth classes for the TA dungeon.

Elitism is on the rise. Live with it, or die trying.

This type of behavior was bound to make it into GW2, as it has in every other game. The best thing to do is to join with others who enjoy what you enjoy, and leave the speed runs to those who enjoy that. Once they speed run themselves through all their goals, they’ll be moving on, anyway.

omgwtflolbbl.7142:

Honestly, if a group of 80s kicks you because you’re too “low level”, chances are that group was going to suck anyways and you’ll probably be faster finding another group.

I disagree. I joined both a full party of level 80s and underleveled players. I want to go with your ideology that an elitist group like that is inferior but it is far from the truth.

The low level has less experience and tend to die a lot if they are focused down on, they do not have the superior gear, they don’t have the toughness, they don’t have the damage, they don’t have the traits, they don’t have the specs, and they may not have the experience. They are vastly inferior to level 80 in exotics. What could take 20 mins in a run could take several hours. If the group succeeded, it was because the level 80 carried the low levels through.

In a full level 80 party, the boss could be a snoozefest.

I still recruit any players that are in level regardless of what I said above.

First off there is a huge difference between someone that has a level 80, but is playing a level 35 alt and a fresh new 35 when it comes to how well they ll do in dungeons. If I had to do a speedrun AC back when was 35 on my main, I would die all the time and now I could probably do it with any 35 I get my hands on without much trouble.

That being said I think it’s rude to kick someone in general and expecially if you dont even know weither they have experience on other chars or not.

The only time I ever kicked someone was for AC exp is when a level 31 wanted to join and didn’t wanna understand that he wasn’t the proper level. I dont mind people leaching a bit (for example using mf gear or green gear). But being 4 levels below the level requirement is means you ll be plain useless everything ll kill you very fast and you ll get mayor glancing blows.

Level isn’t the only thing. Just because they can’t inspect doesn’t mean they won’t ask you to link your gear in chat. If you don’t they’ll just kick you assuming you have crap gear to begin with. This elitist mentality is quite common whenever you don’t have a dungeon finder system. Even then it can still happen if you’re part of the non-essential group of classes (dps).

There’s not much you can do about it really. You were probably better off not grouping with them anyway. Imagine if they kicked you right before the last boss. That would suck even more.

I did a lot of PUG runs with my alt yday, I was the only non 80 there. Was funny how everyone except me kept getting pulled/downed. As Fay said, a lot of the “noobs” are actually alts. and honestly I’ve had worse runs with full CoF set speedrun farmers than with intelligent low-lvls. I’m a bit prejudice towards full CoF wearers, since I saw how most of those sets were obtained.

And don’t worry Ebs, you just bumped into some baddies. Good players don’t need another 80 to carry them. Player > level.

Speed runs level 80s only. I want to do all 3 paths in 50 minutes, which is our best record so far. That means every advantage helps when we must pug the last person since our little guild don’t have much time every night and we would like to get at least 1 Arah run done every night, which we do.

Also skipping Kholer is not an exploit, and all the CoF armor pieces I have are all gotten legitimately.

lcpdragonslayer.7895:

Crater.1625:

Most people don’t understand anything about the way that the game’s downscaling works. The consolation for being kicked by someone who doesn’t think that you’re a high enough level is, that player is almost guaranteed to have a shaky understanding of the game’s actual mechanics. There’s really nothing to be done about it, though.

This. A level 35 wearing full greens would perform better than a level 80 wearing full blues. Unfortunately people just assume level 80 = intelligent.

1) a lvl 35 full green doesn t exists in real game…..they will probably be bad U they found possible even lower than 35……

2) most 80 wear exotics

3) even if 1&2 were not true (but they are) a lvl 35 will lack traits AND skills

Really stop saying lvl and equip doesnt matter that much….they do and a LOT….i was continuosly oneshot by anything (random AC rangers or ex) until i reached 80 and got decent equipment….then i started to kite and tank BOSSES.

The difference is HUGE.

P.S. yet i play with whoever happens >.>// because i play for fun and not for the reward lile 90% of players….orr and dungeons: the easy cash….

If you’re not one of the many prebuff CoF path 2 farmers, then you’re not included in the group I mentioned earlier.

Main point is, lvl 80 doesn’t equal experience nor skill and a 80 wearing subpar gear is actually weaker than lvl 35 with 35 gear.

I atleast hope you’re not being profession “racist” when getting a PUG though.

EDIT:
@LordByron
1. Oh hi there: http://www.gw2db.com/items/armor?filter-item-rarity=4&filter-item-minimum-required-level=35&filter-item-maximum-required-level=35
But alt 35’s will probably wearing full rare anyways.
2. Nope, gear is varied.
3. Traits yes, but skills? Never had a problem having enough skillpoints for my builds at lvl 35 and player skill is not related to lvl.

Why you got oneshot before and didn’t later: you got better by experience or you balanced your stats and weren’t all pew-pew anymore.

What’s this obsession with everyone speeding through dungeons, skipping bosses? A couple of meaningless mobs sure I can understand that somewhat but bosses? The dungeons are meant to have fun in, to do content that’s more challenging than the content out in the world.

Why would you choose to skip that? Just for some gear? Gear has no real value in this game other than aesthetics. The idea is that you get pieces of gear from the tokens you naturally get from playing the dungeons in an enjoyable way.

People need to learn to prioritise fun with the content in this game over the ‘I just got a full set of armour in 2 days because I’m so pro and now I have no end-game content to do QQ, let’s go on forums and complain’. You’re just ruining the content by doing speed runs and you won’t have anything left to do in no time.

I much rather have a lot of fun doing the dungeon with friends or nice pug’s having a good time, messing around even wiping couple times and laugh about it than doing all dungeon paths in 50 minutes.

I vote that Anet should put pillows in all dungeons! Caudecus’ manor pillows <3

When you have done a bazillion runs of everything, and you are now doing dungeons with a limited amount of time, I can understand why people don’t have the patience for lowbies with kitten gear. I advertise for high levels only for my groups to avoid awkward situations. I get called all sorts of mean names but it’s my group and no ones making anyone come. I’m happy to show people what to do, and I have patience, but when I’m pressed on time and have an illness that restricts how long I can be doing something, I just cannot risk taking low levels in dungeons.

In dungeons like Arah I have a few rules for my groups if I have to take a pug. If they haven’t been before- that’s fine, just listen to instructions and you’re good.. No gear though? ( anything under rare, lack of traits) kick. It’s a liability for everyone else involved.

There are situations when I will take lowbies- for example AC, If I feel I have enough DPS in the group and I have a few 80’s, and I have confidence in the lowbie I’ve added (eg. has some crafted gear on, seems to know what to do) then that’s fine, but as soon as someone becomes and issue and wont listen to instruction, they have to go.

runeblade.7514:

omgwtflolbbl.7142:

Honestly, if a group of 80s kicks you because you’re too “low level”, chances are that group was going to suck anyways and you’ll probably be faster finding another group.

I disagree. I joined both a full party of level 80s and underleveled players. I want to go with your ideology that an elitist group like that is inferior but it is far from the truth.

The low level has less experience and tend to die a lot if they are focused down on, they do not have the superior gear, they don’t have the toughness, they don’t have the damage, they don’t have the traits, they don’t have the specs, and they may not have the experience. They are vastly inferior to level 80 in exotics. What could take 20 mins in a run could take several hours. If the group succeeded, it was because the level 80 carried the low levels through.

In a full level 80 party, the boss could be a snoozefest.

I still recruit any players that are in level regardless of what I said above.

I agree with this comment.

I want to state that I run a guild and have plenty of less experiences players in it.
I am very happy to take the less experience players on runs and take my time and explain to them what to do.

However sometimes I want to do a speed run, for myself. I do not see the problem in requesting only Lv 80s for my party. I don’t always want to carry the less experience players though the dungeons.

I also only boot people when I quite clearly mention I am looking for 80s only.

What is the problem in this? If they don’t like it join another party there are always plenty of other groups doing runs outside AC.

I never have an issue getting groups on my Alts.

Psybunny.8906:

EDIT:
@LordByron
1. Oh hi there: http://www.gw2db.com/items/armor?filter-item-rarity=4&filter-item-minimum-required-level=35&filter-item-maximum-required-level=35
But alt 35’s will probably wearing full rare anyways.
2. Nope, gear is varied.
3. Traits yes, but skills? Never had a problem having enough skillpoints for my builds at lvl 35 and player skill is not related to lvl.

Why you got oneshot before and didn’t later: you got better by experience or you balanced your stats and weren’t all pew-pew anymore.

1) i explain better:“did u ever seen a lvl 35 player in full green?” i think nobody saw any because at lvl 35 you don t waste money on gears that will be obsolete in 10 minutes….

2) mostly are at least gold because that is not a waste of money buyng them cheap and salvaging them as you replace with exotics…..(not to mention 3rd attribute).

3) again a proof that you are talking of a non existent scenario: if you are lvl 35 you’ll probably won t have enough skill points to cover a decent build (and most lvl 35 doesn t even know how to build because they are learning) because if you farm skill points you get past lvl 35 too fast…….

The only lvl 35 resembling your desription would be a second character made on purpose by a player with lot of money did with its first character…..

After the first dungeon run it would be a huge waste of time/gold…..
But there isn t ANY real lvl 35 players (even alts) with that equip/skills etc…

I think anyone can understand why…..
all yellow …..really?

do you want to try to go infront of AC/CM and ask low level player what sort of equipment do they use so you can have a more realistic vision of the game?

But there isn t ANY real lvl 35 players (even alts) with that equip/skills etc…

My necro alt has full AC 35 rares (they are stupidly cheap) on with rare 2 crafted daggers and 1 crafted staff and I’m a real player. No gold spent, all mats gathered by lvling that alt. Not that common situation I agree, but it’s possible.
Btw by the point I hit 35, I had atleast 5-6 different utility to choose depending on situation (+ the unneeded ones for next tier I had to take) and 2 elites unlocked. No skillpoint farming, just some areas fully explored.

do you want to try to go infront of AC/CM and ask low level player what sort of equipment do they use so you can have a more realistic vision of the game?

Nope, because I honestly don’t care what they’re wearing. Skill > gear in this game. I do however make my assumptions when I talk to them. Intelligent and adaptable people learn quickly even when they are lowlevel and are doing that dungeons for the first time and I would prefer them to some lvl 80 “xXXNarutoK!llerXXx” any day.

I couldn’t read all the posts but wanted to post my opinions on this one, sorry if I repeat anyone here.

I’ve full AC armor and running towards my Gift of Ascalon so I have lots of AC experience and observations. Believe it or not I’ve completed path 2 with 4 50’s while I was the only 80. But it took 1.5 hour. In general, 5 experienced 80s will finish it in 25 mins max. I guess this is purely on gear and unlocked skills difference.

The easiest way to test this is to go in AC with 4 50s and check how long it takes to kill the first spider boss. Then do the same thing with 4 80s and check the time again. Then compare. I’m a full support guardian and keep level 50s up without a problem on that fight so death zerging is not the cause of the time consumption either.

That being said, if I don’t want to spend 1.5 hour to a dungeon that I can finish in half an hour that does not make me an elitist. At worst I can be selective or time conservative.

I just did two runs of AC with people who either never done it before or were low level or both. We did just fine, we didn’t wipe. We did the runs in decent time. Sure might not be quite as fast as a party with all lvl 80’s but it went just fine so all this nonsense is just silly.

Blah blah blah blah blah.

If you want to kick people for any reason, including level, it’s your prerogative.

If you don’t like getting kicked, that sucks, sorry.

Nothing to argue about here.

It’s better this way believe me. I did runs with speed elite people and I absolutely hated the experience. It’s their right to remove you from parties, and personally, I woud have preferred to be kicked before the start instead of doing runs with those people. I got the tokens at the end, but it was my worst experiences in GW2:

- Not friendly
- Skipping content
- Ignoring questions and chat.

Even unskilled lvl 80s in full exotic are more useful than skilled lvl 35 in blue gear which isnt even lvl 35.

My advice is to make a list of people with this bad attitude and avoid them like a plague. Additionally make a list or add people to your friends list who are friendly that you can whisper for grouping up.

While I understand the reasoning behind all these, the problem lies at able to speed run.

Mobs should never be skipped, unless it is part of the design. That means bosses like Kohler must be meticulously beaten every run, howler trash should be pulled every one. Only when player skill has little bearing in clearing speed (save not wiping) speed runs would never be eliminated.

I never get to do AC on my lv40 mesmer simply because every group kicks me, even though I have over 2.5k achievement points (5 lv80’s so far, sup) and complains they want 80s only. I even offer to reroll to an 80 but they refuse to accept me. I’d also guarantee I can do ac faster than them.

LordByron.8369:

1) i explain better:“did u ever seen a lvl 35 player in full green?” i think nobody saw any because at lvl 35 you don t waste money on gears that will be obsolete in 10 minutes….

This myth gets popped out a alot and I don’t like it, because it keeps players from gearing up in green as they level up.

First off the leveling curve is flat. Leveling from 35-36 takes as long as leveling from 79-80. So don’t skimp on good gear in the low levels thinking you’ll be leveling too quickly. However, having said that even if you did level quickly the gear is extremely cheap because it almost always sells for a few copper more than vendor sell price at the TP.

So while you may spend 6sp on a full set of green gear at level 35, it’ll vendor for 5 or more sp. Just don’t slot it out with custom runes.

There’s no reason not to be gearing up in greens every few levels as you’re leveling up. Seriously, it costs about as much as a WP transfer and will speed up your leveling and make you more competitive in group events.

I didn’t read the whole thread but I keep getting annoyed by this too. I am levelling a new character and I have been kicked out of several groups.
Usually I just link them my Arah token collection and tell them to F* themselves, but that still leaves me without a group.
Unfortunately this is nothing that Anet can help on, it is purely the community that does this to itself. I always try to “fix” it by arguing with the person recruiting for their team if I see them say Level 80 only on map chat.

Dracones.9105:

LordByron.8369:

1) i explain better:“did u ever seen a lvl 35 player in full green?” i think nobody saw any because at lvl 35 you don t waste money on gears that will be obsolete in 10 minutes….

This myth gets popped out a alot and I don’t like it, because it keeps players from gearing up in green as they level up.

First off the leveling curve is flat. Leveling from 35-36 takes as long as leveling from 79-80. So don’t skimp on good gear in the low levels thinking you’ll be leveling too quickly. However, having said that even if you did level quickly the gear is extremely cheap because it almost always sells for a few copper more than vendor sell price at the TP.

So while you may spend 6sp on a full set of green gear at level 35, it’ll vendor for 5 or more sp. Just don’t slot it out with custom runes.

There’s no reason not to be gearing up in greens every few levels as you’re leveling up. Seriously, it costs about as much as a WP transfer and will speed up your leveling and make you more competitive in group events.

Exactly that, I just gear up my warrior in yellows. Even bought him a cultural armor set.
And when I was levelling my main I did buy yellow weapons and green gear without having another money supply for it.

I really hope that the majority don’t do this. I am lvling an alt right now and once i get to 35 i would like to use AC to level, I have a lvl 80 and i know all of the paths in ac and how to do everything. People need to know that lvl isn’t everything and they shouldn’t keep players that know the dungeon and newer players that want to try one from learning just because of lvl.

Only AC last path requires higher level players, otherwise hard to complete and nobody gets any reward.

The other 2 paths can be achieved with 2-3 lower level guys, just a bit more difficult.. if you need the level just re-run path 1, think people are more willing to accept low level guys in that.

If your entire group don’t even have a fully geared 80, then goodluck, don’t think Anet made dungeons friendly for those parties, which I think for the 2 lower level dungeons, they should have at least 1 path easier for those in full team of mid-levels.

That is exactly the kind of thinking we are trying to avoid here Evoked…

“If your entire group don’t even have a fully geared 80, then goodluck, don’t think Anet made dungeons friendly for those parties”

That particular bit makes no sense at all. First being level 80 provides no bonus on itself only the minor/major trait slots you unlocked do. Which is just a nice addition but not a game breaker.
Second as said above: there also are lower levels who are fully geared. Since the gear attributes are downgraded as well there is no difference again between a level 80 or a level 40 in rare gear.
And before you start complaining about 80’s in exotics: the difference between rare and exotic is small and there are still a lot of 80’s out there that also run dungeons in a rare set without problems.

I take, teach, and play with all lvls. Further improving Blackgates community 1 group at a time. Speedrun? Ill be playing for years, I have patience. I dont mind mistakes as long as people learn from em.

Well bite me, but I do this too. I usually look for experienced ppl only and when a lvl35 guy shows up in blue gear and claims to have done it a million times and refuses to relog and ping some tokens or reward gear I lose my patience and press the kick button. I tried to teach ppl what to do, but had little success.. Maybe it’s just the lack of patience on my part. Good thing that I’m free to choose the teammates to play with. (also a lvl80 in full exotic gear does significantly more dmg and dies less often in most cases)