Guild Wars 2

Few things are more frustrating than getting kicked from a dungeon group. It is far too easy to do. Three players you don’t know decide that they don’t like your class, level, AP, the colour of your shoes, your gear…Well, you get the idea.

Many players make good use of the descriptions. If you only want level 62 rangers with pink shoes and put it in the description-go for it lol.

However, tonight I had a typical experience of how this system can be and is abused. There was a p2 p3 group for Caudecus Manor. Nothing else was listed in their descrption. I joined the group and ported into the dungeon and there was an immediate vote. I tried to negotiate but was kicked.

If you you don’t want a Necromancer in the group, please say so. If you don’t want a level 45, again the description is a GREAT place to say so. If my 11k AP, human, male, or condition build do not meet your needs, again I understand-but put it in the description.

So this lead me to an idea. If you kick a player from a group, you should need to wait at least 10 minutes before you can repost in LFG. This forces a group to really consider before kicking. The same 10 minutes should apply if you leave a group that is in a dungeon, unless the dungeon has been completed.

Now, I get that you may not necessarily want four level 36 rangers joining you in in AC. This lead me to the second part of the idea. When creating a group in LFG you should have options that you can checkbox.

You could checkmark the classes that you want. You could similarly choose levels, AP, Vitality, or anything else.

Helpful feedback and recommendations are always welcome!

I can see a problem with that. Even if you had the option to filter out people under certain level of power/prec/ferocity, which would be absolutely fantastic despite some anti-elitist jerks still being against it, you have no control over the level of experience since the game cannot reasonably track it. Let’s take CM as an example. Okay, you can finally get a person with proper class and gear you’re looking for. Now when he enters, he runs around for a couple of minutes until you draw the way for him on the minimap, he finally joins the party, thief stealths the whole group, but half way the new one randomly hits an enemy and next thing you see is the floor.
Nice, now I have to wait 10 minutes before I can try my luck in the LFG roulette again.
There is a certain level of understanding and preparation I take for granted, when I look for someone to do dungeons with me. And if pugs don’t meet that (99% of the cases), they simply have to go. I don’t kick people because they wear too shiny armor. That would be silly. When I kick someone, I have very good reasons for that, usually their performance not being up to the standards of the group. And if anyone asks me after he’s out, I usually don’t ingore him and tell him the reasons. But actually, in pugs, much more common thing is I specifically ask for a class in the LFG, random necro joins, gets kicked and still has the guts to ask why we kicked him.
So no, the idea of 10 minutes before reposting LFG seems to hard to make work properly and would be easily exploitable by random trolls. But as for the checkboxes to filter out people with insufficient level/class/gear, I’m definitely for that.

Sorry OP, but in your case nothing is frustrating. You were immediately kicked after joining so you lost nothing.
Besides that, if you really need to play necro in a dungeon, you will be able to open your own LFG.
You’ll also notice then that it’ll usually take longer to fill the group than with another class. Blame the balancing team not the players.
I would appreciate more options in the LFG system but it’s not its main problem at the moment like “instance hijacking”.

Vinceman.4572:

Sorry OP, but in your case nothing is frustrating. You were immediately kicked after joining so you lost nothing.
Besides that, if you really need to play necro in a dungeon, you will be able to open your own LFG.
You’ll also notice then that it’ll usually take longer to fill the group than with another class. Blame the balancing team not the players.
I would appreciate more options in the LFG system but it’s not its main problem at the moment like “instance hijacking”.

The frustrating thing at this point I’d imagine would be people thinking that smoebody running a necro is going to make a meaningful difference in their clear speed as a pug.

Just make your own group. Honestly especially in your case as a necro its hard. I understand, I used to run necro but finally gave up (see necro forum). I run ele and guard all dungeon groups look for them. Honestly just make your own group it will be filled and you can post what you expect from people. Like only casuals, no stacking, full clear (LOL) good luck

First of all, joining a group without explicit requirements should be treated with care: More often than not, such players are simply unable to communicate their expectations appropriately (or unaware that they should). They assume that their own ideas of running an explorable (for example, be level 80) is what everyone else is doing as well.

Keep in mind that some of these expectations are more common than others. Being level 80 is a quite popular one as far as I’m aware. Ideally, you explicitly state if you have a level requirement or not so there won’t be any room for misunderstandings. Which brings me to the part of your suggestion I actually agree with:

Filtering! Yes, the lfg-tool absolutely needs more filtering options. The level would be the most obvious one. I would also like to see AP included as well as subjective ones such as experience (could pick from “beginner”, “average”, “experienced” or something like that).

Lastly, the timer I don’t agree with. More often than not, people just don’t bother reading. When you join a group that clearly states obvious requirements such as a level, a class or AP and you do not meet them, well, expect to get kicked. There should be no punishment involved in this. If anything, the player not meeting the requirements is the offender for not respecting the wishes of that group.

Talzed.4153:

So this lead me to an idea. If you kick a player from a group, you should need to wait at least 10 minutes before you can repost in LFG.

Are you kidding me?

The cure sounds worse than the disease with this proposal.

I’d say it’d be far more frustrating having to wait 10 minutes every time someone ignores the description and joins with an incompatible toon, which happens quite often.

Thank you for the feedback, now lets talk:

you have no control over the level of experience since the game cannot reasonably track it
Achievement points would work well.

When I kick someone, I have very good reasons for that, usually their performance not being up to the standards of the group
So you have to decide if it would take less than 10 minutes in order to help the player. In my experience, it one or two pointers usually cure the issue. After all, most dungeons can be 3 or 4 manned.

You were immediately kicked after joining so you lost nothing.
Obviously incorrect.

Besides that, if you really need to play necro in a dungeon, you will be able to open your own LFG.
There is no mechanic to prevent you from getting kicked from your own group.

The frustrating thing at this point I’d imagine would be people thinking that smoebody running a necro is going to make a meaningful difference in their clear speed as a pug.
Even though I am an experienced and talented player, I always avoid ‘speed run’ and similar descriptions

More often than not, people just don’t bother reading. When you join a group that clearly states obvious requirements such as a level, a class or AP and you do not meet them, well, expect to get kicked. There should be no punishment involved in this. If anything, the player not meeting the requirements is the offender for not respecting the wishes of that group.
The check boxes would be requirements in order to join. If you did not meet those requirements, you would not be permitted to join the group

If you kick someone from a group, it is reasonable to assume that between the time they already spent in the dungeon and the time for them to get the next dungeon group together, you will cost them at least 10 minutes. It is only fair that if you are going to cost them 10 minutes, that you also lose 10 minutes. Or you can 4 man it…

Human interaction is hard lol. Get over it, you got kicked. Yes they should have put something in the description, yep they shouldn’t have kicked you if they didn’t put it in the description, but they don’t have to accept anything because they didn’t list it.

I’d written a longer reply, but lost it when the forums decided to log me out between writing it and hitting “Post”. Grrrrr…

In short:

- Use ‘quote’ tags in your replies. It makes it much easier to follow the conversation :-)
- AP is a terrible indicator of dungeon performance. Dungeons don’t award significant AP, and the game modes that do typically require no knowledge of profession abilities, no skill beyond button mashing, and no teamwork requirement (e.g. dailies, living story, etc).
- You lose about 15 seconds when you get kicked from a group at join. This isn’t a real problem.
- I agree that getting kicked from your own group is a problem. I wish we had a real instance-owner system :-(
- I also fully agree that players who have party requirements should be posting them.

10 minutes is not a reasonable estimate of time lost for getting kicked at join. It takes roughly five seconds to open the LFG, select a dungeon, and click “Advertise your party”, or join a different one.

Further, you still haven’t justified penalizing players who are trying to form a specific group and properly using LFG descriptions. Even when an LFG says “full zerk, gear check 80s, no rangers/necros”, tons of people join that don’t meet the requirements. Why should these players have to wait 10 minutes every time someone CBA to read and selfishly joins a group that they obviously aren’t wanted in?

Wait you were trying to dungeon without being a lvl 80 zerk? what is a “necro”? O.o

Thank you all for the additional feedback.

they don’t have to accept anything because they didn’t list it.

Elitism at its finest roflol.

dlonie.6547:

- AP is a terrible indicator of dungeon performance. Dungeons don’t award significant
- You lose about 15 seconds when you get kicked from a group at join. This isn’t a real problem.
- I agree that getting kicked from your own group is a problem. I wish we had a real instance-owner system :-(
- I also fully agree that players who have party requirements should be posting them.

10 minutes is not a reasonable estimate of time lost for getting kicked at join. It takes roughly five seconds to open the LFG, select a dungeon, and click “Advertise your party”, or join a different one.

Further, you still haven’t justified penalizing players who are trying to form a specific group and properly using LFG descriptions. Even when an LFG says “full zerk, gear check 80s, no rangers/necros”, tons of people join that don’t meet the requirements. Why should these players have to wait 10 minutes every time someone CBA to read and selfishly joins a group that they obviously aren’t wanted in?

AP is the only tool we have atm. A flashing sign that says I have completed this run 7576 times might be gaudy.
If you consider the time to actually get the group formed, start the instance,and wait for the group you form because you just got kicked, it may not be 10 minutes, but it is close.
The second part of my suggestion was a filtered LFG system. You would only be able to join the groups where you met the requirements. You would be able to put class/level/gear requirements etc.

I also want to be clear. I have a 80s of every class but ranger, including many duplicates. I simply view this as a growing issue that really needs to be addressed. If this bothers me as a player since beta, imagine someone with their first toon trying to get into a dungeon and getting kicked.

Filtered LFG == good. That’s been requested a lot and I’d love to see it. Hopefully they’re listening, but there’s no way they’d make it a priority. Any work on the LFG tool primarily serves dungeons (strike one), it would throw a ton of fuel on the raging “I hate stupid zerkers” crowd (strike two), and it would go against their fantasy where all players always get along and should be forced into every piece of content together (strike three). It’d be great, but I won’t hold my breath.

The 10 minutes timer, though…that’s just not a good idea. Way too much collateral damage to prevent an occasional bruised ego.

The party kick cooldown is a terrible idea. Basically that would just cause players to accept members who aren’t a good fit, or continually break and reform their parties.

We suggested a filtered LFG before it was even implemented, back when you had to use a 3rd party website to PUG (and believe me, those were some good days). Either way – didn’t happen then, won’t happen now. Dungeons have decreased in popularity quite a lot, even if we did get filtering options it’d most likely result in a lot of empty search results.

Windsagio.1340:

The frustrating thing at this point I’d imagine would be people thinking that smoebody running a necro is going to make a meaningful difference in their clear speed as a pug.

The only frustrating thing is this:
After almost 3 years of GW2 99% of all pug-necros still fear the kitten out of the enemies so the others are missing their dmg skills (e.g. 100b, icebow 4 and so on) while the enemies aren’t cc’ed a.k.a. deepfrozen.
I’ve seen less than 10 good pug-necros in all of my dungeon runs besides the good ones which belong to the better playerbase from the fractals & dungeon forum.

So yeah, most of the necros are going to make a difference in a pug clear speed.