Let me try this again
Here ya go:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/4pe4jy/can_we_get_a_directory_of_guilds_that_teach_raids/
Nothing preventing you from starting your own “all builds welcome” learning group as well.
Best of luck!
Here’s some additional advice for you. While part of raiding is about skill, builds, gear, etc., there’s also the social aspect that mustn’t be ignored. Assuming you join an already established guild or static group as the 10th member, there’s probably already an understanding amogst the 9 people of what type of attitude they expect out of their raid team.
Some groups will demand perfection because they like to push limits and demonstrate what high skill groups can do. Others might be just learning so they eliminate any variables by demanding meta builds. And then there’s the groups who are comfortable running whatever they want because they’ve mastered the encounters and don’t care about speed runs.
Ensure that, whatever group you’re joining, aligns with your expectations of what an ideal raid experience is. Also note that groups will tend to be more lenient with what you run after they’ve gotten more comfortable with you. Showing the willingness and capability of swapping to something meta should the runs start going south will also go a long way.
The alternative is to simply start your own group so you can set the rules. Good luck!
Shikaru’s advice is apt: look for groups that meet your needs. Or start your own. Be willing to adapt; be flexible early before asking for permission to do your own thing.
The issue has never been what builds can succeed at raids. Anyone who plays this game enough knows that mechanics and coordination are more important than builds. For pick-up-groups with unknown experience/expertise or any others struggling to succeed, it’s important to eliminate as many potential obstacles as possible.
Among the biggest impediments to success are:
- Unwillingness to adapt to circumstances — people are looking for flexibility.
- Unwillingness to follow the leader’s plan. Raids need everyone pulling together.
- Difficulty in communicating. There’s a lot of read-aim-fire (or even fire-aim-fire-ready-aim-fire), which means lots of instructions/suggestions; people have to trust that everyone understands.
Insisting that you want to bring a non-meta build before the raid has begun suggests an unwillingness to adapt and/or follow the commander’s lead.
Anyone can be a communication bottleneck, whether squad leaders, members, or potential recruits. The OP is probably well off being insta-kicked — that probably indicates a commander who’s unwilling to listen or work with the OP anyhow. By the same token, folks who justify their build with a phrase like “that’s just the way it is” aren’t going to be welcomed by a lot of groups; not many are willing to deal with someone who stopped listening before the conversation started.
tl;dr it’s your right to insist on bringing your choice of build; it’s also the commander’s choice to not welcome someone who does so. If you want to insist on insisting, then be very selective in the groups you join. Or better yet: start your own; you know that there are plenty of like-minded people who want to run their own build.
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
Shikaru’s advice is apt: look for groups that meet your needs. Or start your own. Be willing to adapt; be flexible early before asking for permission to do your own thing.
The issue has never been what builds can succeed at raids. Anyone who plays this game enough knows that mechanics and coordination are more important than builds. For pick-up-groups with unknown experience/expertise or any others struggling to succeed, it’s important to eliminate as many potential obstacles as possible.
Among the biggest impediments to success are:
- Unwillingness to adapt to circumstances — people are looking for flexibility.
- Unwillingness to follow the leader’s plan. Raids need everyone pulling together.
- Difficulty in communicating. There’s a lot of read-aim-fire (or even fire-aim-fire-ready-aim-fire), which means lots of instructions/suggestions; people have to trust that everyone understands.
Insisting that you want to bring a non-meta build before the raid has begun suggests an unwillingness to adapt and/or follow the commander’s lead.
Anyone can be a communication bottleneck, whether squad leaders, members, or potential recruits. The OP is probably well off being insta-kicked — that probably indicates a commander who’s unwilling to listen or work with the OP anyhow. By the same token, folks who justify their build with a phrase like “that’s just the way it is” aren’t going to be welcomed by a lot of groups; not many are willing to deal with someone who stopped listening before the conversation started.
tl;dr it’s your right to insist on bringing your choice of build; it’s also the commander’s choice to not welcome someone who does so. If you want to insist on insisting, then be very selective in the groups you join. Or better yet: start your own; you know that there are plenty of like-minded people who want to run their own build.
To be fair if the builds are on METAbattle then they are Meta.
Shikaru’s advice is apt: look for groups that meet your needs. Or start your own. Be willing to adapt; be flexible early before asking for permission to do your own thing.
The issue has never been what builds can succeed at raids. Anyone who plays this game enough knows that mechanics and coordination are more important than builds. For pick-up-groups with unknown experience/expertise or any others struggling to succeed, it’s important to eliminate as many potential obstacles as possible.
Among the biggest impediments to success are:
- Unwillingness to adapt to circumstances — people are looking for flexibility.
- Unwillingness to follow the leader’s plan. Raids need everyone pulling together.
- Difficulty in communicating. There’s a lot of read-aim-fire (or even fire-aim-fire-ready-aim-fire), which means lots of instructions/suggestions; people have to trust that everyone understands.
Insisting that you want to bring a non-meta build before the raid has begun suggests an unwillingness to adapt and/or follow the commander’s lead.
Anyone can be a communication bottleneck, whether squad leaders, members, or potential recruits. The OP is probably well off being insta-kicked — that probably indicates a commander who’s unwilling to listen or work with the OP anyhow. By the same token, folks who justify their build with a phrase like “that’s just the way it is” aren’t going to be welcomed by a lot of groups; not many are willing to deal with someone who stopped listening before the conversation started.
tl;dr it’s your right to insist on bringing your choice of build; it’s also the commander’s choice to not welcome someone who does so. If you want to insist on insisting, then be very selective in the groups you join. Or better yet: start your own; you know that there are plenty of like-minded people who want to run their own build.
To be fair if the builds are on METAbattle then they are Meta.
Haha no
Shikaru’s advice is apt: look for groups that meet your needs. Or start your own. Be willing to adapt; be flexible early before asking for permission to do your own thing.
The issue has never been what builds can succeed at raids. Anyone who plays this game enough knows that mechanics and coordination are more important than builds. For pick-up-groups with unknown experience/expertise or any others struggling to succeed, it’s important to eliminate as many potential obstacles as possible.
Among the biggest impediments to success are:
- Unwillingness to adapt to circumstances — people are looking for flexibility.
- Unwillingness to follow the leader’s plan. Raids need everyone pulling together.
- Difficulty in communicating. There’s a lot of read-aim-fire (or even fire-aim-fire-ready-aim-fire), which means lots of instructions/suggestions; people have to trust that everyone understands.
Insisting that you want to bring a non-meta build before the raid has begun suggests an unwillingness to adapt and/or follow the commander’s lead.
Anyone can be a communication bottleneck, whether squad leaders, members, or potential recruits. The OP is probably well off being insta-kicked — that probably indicates a commander who’s unwilling to listen or work with the OP anyhow. By the same token, folks who justify their build with a phrase like “that’s just the way it is” aren’t going to be welcomed by a lot of groups; not many are willing to deal with someone who stopped listening before the conversation started.
tl;dr it’s your right to insist on bringing your choice of build; it’s also the commander’s choice to not welcome someone who does so. If you want to insist on insisting, then be very selective in the groups you join. Or better yet: start your own; you know that there are plenty of like-minded people who want to run their own build.
To be fair if the builds are on METAbattle then they are Meta.
No no no, that’s not true. There’s only one meta build for raids for Necro and it’s this one
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Reaper_-_Viper_Horror
Shikaru’s advice is apt: look for groups that meet your needs. Or start your own. Be willing to adapt; be flexible early before asking for permission to do your own thing.
The issue has never been what builds can succeed at raids. Anyone who plays this game enough knows that mechanics and coordination are more important than builds. For pick-up-groups with unknown experience/expertise or any others struggling to succeed, it’s important to eliminate as many potential obstacles as possible.
Among the biggest impediments to success are:
- Unwillingness to adapt to circumstances — people are looking for flexibility.
- Unwillingness to follow the leader’s plan. Raids need everyone pulling together.
- Difficulty in communicating. There’s a lot of read-aim-fire (or even fire-aim-fire-ready-aim-fire), which means lots of instructions/suggestions; people have to trust that everyone understands.
Insisting that you want to bring a non-meta build before the raid has begun suggests an unwillingness to adapt and/or follow the commander’s lead.
Anyone can be a communication bottleneck, whether squad leaders, members, or potential recruits. The OP is probably well off being insta-kicked — that probably indicates a commander who’s unwilling to listen or work with the OP anyhow. By the same token, folks who justify their build with a phrase like “that’s just the way it is” aren’t going to be welcomed by a lot of groups; not many are willing to deal with someone who stopped listening before the conversation started.
tl;dr it’s your right to insist on bringing your choice of build; it’s also the commander’s choice to not welcome someone who does so. If you want to insist on insisting, then be very selective in the groups you join. Or better yet: start your own; you know that there are plenty of like-minded people who want to run their own build.
To be fair if the builds are on METAbattle then they are Meta.
No no no, that’s not true. There’s only one meta build for raids for Necro and it’s this one
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Reaper_-_Viper_Horror
Why does everybody swear by it then, if it’s such a bad site then where is the GW2 equivalent to WoW’s Icy Veins?
http://qtfy.enjin.com/builds is where the good builds are.
Shikaru’s advice is apt: look for groups that meet your needs. Or start your own. Be willing to adapt; be flexible early before asking for permission to do your own thing.
The issue has never been what builds can succeed at raids. Anyone who plays this game enough knows that mechanics and coordination are more important than builds. For pick-up-groups with unknown experience/expertise or any others struggling to succeed, it’s important to eliminate as many potential obstacles as possible.
Among the biggest impediments to success are:
- Unwillingness to adapt to circumstances — people are looking for flexibility.
- Unwillingness to follow the leader’s plan. Raids need everyone pulling together.
- Difficulty in communicating. There’s a lot of read-aim-fire (or even fire-aim-fire-ready-aim-fire), which means lots of instructions/suggestions; people have to trust that everyone understands.
Insisting that you want to bring a non-meta build before the raid has begun suggests an unwillingness to adapt and/or follow the commander’s lead.
Anyone can be a communication bottleneck, whether squad leaders, members, or potential recruits. The OP is probably well off being insta-kicked — that probably indicates a commander who’s unwilling to listen or work with the OP anyhow. By the same token, folks who justify their build with a phrase like “that’s just the way it is” aren’t going to be welcomed by a lot of groups; not many are willing to deal with someone who stopped listening before the conversation started.
tl;dr it’s your right to insist on bringing your choice of build; it’s also the commander’s choice to not welcome someone who does so. If you want to insist on insisting, then be very selective in the groups you join. Or better yet: start your own; you know that there are plenty of like-minded people who want to run their own build.
To be fair if the builds are on METAbattle then they are Meta.
No no no, that’s not true. There’s only one meta build for raids for Necro and it’s this one
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Reaper_-_Viper_HorrorWhy does everybody swear by it then, if it’s such a bad site then where is the GW2 equivalent to WoW’s Icy Veins?
No one said it was a bad site, but not every build that’s listed is meta. A lot of the builds are experimental, in testing, or in progress. The meta builds are marked as such. They usually say “Our curator decided this build is in the current metagame regardless of rating.” but I assume that since Necro has fallen out of the meta due to the jagged horror nerf, they took off that line from the Viper Horror build. It used to have it before that patch.
Shikaru’s advice is apt: look for groups that meet your needs. Or start your own. Be willing to adapt; be flexible early before asking for permission to do your own thing.
The issue has never been what builds can succeed at raids. Anyone who plays this game enough knows that mechanics and coordination are more important than builds. For pick-up-groups with unknown experience/expertise or any others struggling to succeed, it’s important to eliminate as many potential obstacles as possible.
Among the biggest impediments to success are:
- Unwillingness to adapt to circumstances — people are looking for flexibility.
- Unwillingness to follow the leader’s plan. Raids need everyone pulling together.
- Difficulty in communicating. There’s a lot of read-aim-fire (or even fire-aim-fire-ready-aim-fire), which means lots of instructions/suggestions; people have to trust that everyone understands.
Insisting that you want to bring a non-meta build before the raid has begun suggests an unwillingness to adapt and/or follow the commander’s lead.
Anyone can be a communication bottleneck, whether squad leaders, members, or potential recruits. The OP is probably well off being insta-kicked — that probably indicates a commander who’s unwilling to listen or work with the OP anyhow. By the same token, folks who justify their build with a phrase like “that’s just the way it is” aren’t going to be welcomed by a lot of groups; not many are willing to deal with someone who stopped listening before the conversation started.
tl;dr it’s your right to insist on bringing your choice of build; it’s also the commander’s choice to not welcome someone who does so. If you want to insist on insisting, then be very selective in the groups you join. Or better yet: start your own; you know that there are plenty of like-minded people who want to run their own build.
To be fair if the builds are on METAbattle then they are Meta.
No no no, that’s not true. There’s only one meta build for raids for Necro and it’s this one
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Reaper_-_Viper_HorrorWhy does everybody swear by it then, if it’s such a bad site then where is the GW2 equivalent to WoW’s Icy Veins?
No one said it was a bad site, but not every build that’s listed is meta. A lot of the builds are experimental, in testing, or in progress. The meta builds are marked as such. They usually say “Our curator decided this build is in the current metagame regardless of rating.” but I assume that since Necro has fallen out of the meta due to the jagged horror nerf, they took off that line from the Viper Horror build. It used to have it before that patch.
So in other words a whole entire class is excluded from raiding, that doesn’t sound toxic or anything.
Shikaru’s advice is apt: look for groups that meet your needs. Or start your own. Be willing to adapt; be flexible early before asking for permission to do your own thing.
The issue has never been what builds can succeed at raids. Anyone who plays this game enough knows that mechanics and coordination are more important than builds. For pick-up-groups with unknown experience/expertise or any others struggling to succeed, it’s important to eliminate as many potential obstacles as possible.
Among the biggest impediments to success are:
- Unwillingness to adapt to circumstances — people are looking for flexibility.
- Unwillingness to follow the leader’s plan. Raids need everyone pulling together.
- Difficulty in communicating. There’s a lot of read-aim-fire (or even fire-aim-fire-ready-aim-fire), which means lots of instructions/suggestions; people have to trust that everyone understands.
Insisting that you want to bring a non-meta build before the raid has begun suggests an unwillingness to adapt and/or follow the commander’s lead.
Anyone can be a communication bottleneck, whether squad leaders, members, or potential recruits. The OP is probably well off being insta-kicked — that probably indicates a commander who’s unwilling to listen or work with the OP anyhow. By the same token, folks who justify their build with a phrase like “that’s just the way it is” aren’t going to be welcomed by a lot of groups; not many are willing to deal with someone who stopped listening before the conversation started.
tl;dr it’s your right to insist on bringing your choice of build; it’s also the commander’s choice to not welcome someone who does so. If you want to insist on insisting, then be very selective in the groups you join. Or better yet: start your own; you know that there are plenty of like-minded people who want to run their own build.
To be fair if the builds are on METAbattle then they are Meta.
No no no, that’s not true. There’s only one meta build for raids for Necro and it’s this one
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Reaper_-_Viper_HorrorWhy does everybody swear by it then, if it’s such a bad site then where is the GW2 equivalent to WoW’s Icy Veins?
No one said it was a bad site, but not every build that’s listed is meta. A lot of the builds are experimental, in testing, or in progress. The meta builds are marked as such. They usually say “Our curator decided this build is in the current metagame regardless of rating.” but I assume that since Necro has fallen out of the meta due to the jagged horror nerf, they took off that line from the Viper Horror build. It used to have it before that patch.
So in other words a whole entire class is excluded from raiding, that doesn’t sound toxic or anything.
It isn’t excluded, you can play Necro if you want but the commander can decide if he would prefer to have a higher DPS class like Condi Ranger instead. It’s their group after all. Training groups and raids will also let you bring a Necro provided it’s a Condi Necro.
Also if you want to use a Guardian and are not tanking, you’d be running Berserker gear not Valkyrie.
(edited by Sectry.1236)
Shikaru’s advice is apt: look for groups that meet your needs. Or start your own. Be willing to adapt; be flexible early before asking for permission to do your own thing.
The issue has never been what builds can succeed at raids. Anyone who plays this game enough knows that mechanics and coordination are more important than builds. For pick-up-groups with unknown experience/expertise or any others struggling to succeed, it’s important to eliminate as many potential obstacles as possible.
Among the biggest impediments to success are:
- Unwillingness to adapt to circumstances — people are looking for flexibility.
- Unwillingness to follow the leader’s plan. Raids need everyone pulling together.
- Difficulty in communicating. There’s a lot of read-aim-fire (or even fire-aim-fire-ready-aim-fire), which means lots of instructions/suggestions; people have to trust that everyone understands.
Insisting that you want to bring a non-meta build before the raid has begun suggests an unwillingness to adapt and/or follow the commander’s lead.
Anyone can be a communication bottleneck, whether squad leaders, members, or potential recruits. The OP is probably well off being insta-kicked — that probably indicates a commander who’s unwilling to listen or work with the OP anyhow. By the same token, folks who justify their build with a phrase like “that’s just the way it is” aren’t going to be welcomed by a lot of groups; not many are willing to deal with someone who stopped listening before the conversation started.
tl;dr it’s your right to insist on bringing your choice of build; it’s also the commander’s choice to not welcome someone who does so. If you want to insist on insisting, then be very selective in the groups you join. Or better yet: start your own; you know that there are plenty of like-minded people who want to run their own build.
To be fair if the builds are on METAbattle then they are Meta.
No no no, that’s not true. There’s only one meta build for raids for Necro and it’s this one
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Reaper_-_Viper_HorrorWhy does everybody swear by it then, if it’s such a bad site then where is the GW2 equivalent to WoW’s Icy Veins?
No one said it was a bad site, but not every build that’s listed is meta. A lot of the builds are experimental, in testing, or in progress. The meta builds are marked as such. They usually say “Our curator decided this build is in the current metagame regardless of rating.” but I assume that since Necro has fallen out of the meta due to the jagged horror nerf, they took off that line from the Viper Horror build. It used to have it before that patch.
So in other words a whole entire class is excluded from raiding, that doesn’t sound toxic or anything.
I don’t think that means that that class is excluded.
It could mean the ratings for that build improved. As there are people who will get together with their friends and trash the ratings of builds they don’t like. And that line means that just because some rude people are dumping the ratings that that build isn’t meta.
It may be harder for classes that aren’t in the team comp meta to get into a meta group or non-meta builds to get into a meta group, but that doesn’t mean that there aren’t groups out there that are willing to take non-team comp meta classes or non-meta builds.
I see now regarding the Meta status.
As far as Valk stats I use that for survivability, with the Reaper I can get Crit capped any way just through traits, my weapon and accessories are all ascended zerker.
Shikaru’s advice is apt: look for groups that meet your needs. Or start your own. Be willing to adapt; be flexible early before asking for permission to do your own thing.
The issue has never been what builds can succeed at raids. Anyone who plays this game enough knows that mechanics and coordination are more important than builds. For pick-up-groups with unknown experience/expertise or any others struggling to succeed, it’s important to eliminate as many potential obstacles as possible.
Among the biggest impediments to success are:
- Unwillingness to adapt to circumstances — people are looking for flexibility.
- Unwillingness to follow the leader’s plan. Raids need everyone pulling together.
- Difficulty in communicating. There’s a lot of read-aim-fire (or even fire-aim-fire-ready-aim-fire), which means lots of instructions/suggestions; people have to trust that everyone understands.
Insisting that you want to bring a non-meta build before the raid has begun suggests an unwillingness to adapt and/or follow the commander’s lead.
Anyone can be a communication bottleneck, whether squad leaders, members, or potential recruits. The OP is probably well off being insta-kicked — that probably indicates a commander who’s unwilling to listen or work with the OP anyhow. By the same token, folks who justify their build with a phrase like “that’s just the way it is” aren’t going to be welcomed by a lot of groups; not many are willing to deal with someone who stopped listening before the conversation started.
tl;dr it’s your right to insist on bringing your choice of build; it’s also the commander’s choice to not welcome someone who does so. If you want to insist on insisting, then be very selective in the groups you join. Or better yet: start your own; you know that there are plenty of like-minded people who want to run their own build.
To be fair if the builds are on METAbattle then they are Meta.
No no no, that’s not true. There’s only one meta build for raids for Necro and it’s this one
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Reaper_-_Viper_HorrorWhy does everybody swear by it then, if it’s such a bad site then where is the GW2 equivalent to WoW’s Icy Veins?
No one said it was a bad site, but not every build that’s listed is meta. A lot of the builds are experimental, in testing, or in progress. The meta builds are marked as such. They usually say “Our curator decided this build is in the current metagame regardless of rating.” but I assume that since Necro has fallen out of the meta due to the jagged horror nerf, they took off that line from the Viper Horror build. It used to have it before that patch.
So in other words a whole entire class is excluded from raiding, that doesn’t sound toxic or anything.
What do you want us to tell you, that necros are amazing and wonderful and we want all of our groups to have them?
Look, the reality is that in this current patch, necros are objectively worse than multiple other classes for DPS. No amount of making complaint threads on the forums is going to change the fact that that is the simple reality right now. Since necros are worse, raid groups will preferentially take better DPS classes. Taking a necro is making a conscious decision to handicap themselves.
Now, I’m not saying that you can’t do the raids with necros, because that’s not true. You can use them, they’re just not as good. Some groups will allow you to bring necros because they really don’t care as much, but it’s nothing short of absurd for you to get mad at commanders because they don’t want to bring an objectively bad class into the raid with them.
I see now regarding the Meta status.
As far as Valk stats I use that for survivability, with the Reaper I can get Crit capped any way just through traits, my weapon and accessories are all ascended zerker.
Sure, I’m generalizing, but there’s your first problem: taking survivability stats; there are other team members that will keep you on your feet. If you are still going down either you’re doing something wrong or your support members are doing something wrong.
To address your original point though:
The word Meta get tossed around waaaay too much and, while Metabattle had it’s time of glory, it doesn’t hold quite the prestige that it used to. Nowadays qT are the go-to kids on the block because they not only post the gear, traits, stat distribution, but they also goes as far as putting videos together demonstrating the strength of the class they are showcasing.
Specifically, when it comes to Power Necro? Personally, I don’t bring them along, not even in fractals. I’m sure that there are players that have min-maxed that class to the max and can bring some amazing things to the table….but for the general player-base it’s an underpowered build. As in, what does the class that another class isn’t already doing if not doing it better. Other classes do more damage, offer more healing, etc.
Now, while Condi Necro was gutted there is definitely still a spot for a Necro because of how well they can manipulate conditions. pair that will tele-revive (which power necro does share), and you have a pretty good team player.
Ultimately though, you’re at the mercy of the group you are trying to join and what their play style is. Sure, any class/build is viable. I mean, you have top guilds beating bosses with as little as 4 players in a 10-man encounter. But not everyone that plays is as precise as top-guilds. Thus, each raid group will run with what they feel will best get them through the content.
Sure, a good portion of groups want to get thing done but also want to get them done quickly. Thus, they will go with “meta builds” which have more potential than your potato builds (woodenpotato pun not intended). The difference between a “meta build” and a potato build is that the meta build can outperform any other build if played to the precision and accuracy of its potential. Though in there lies, the problem, if you can’t perform in the meta build you’re gonna be hurting the team.
Thus, you have teams that don’t abide by meta simply because they know they cannot perform it to the precision needed, are uncomfortable with the build, or otherwise don’t care to run those builds. That’s where you lie and need to find a guild/group that shares that same mindset.
Shikaru’s advice is apt: look for groups that meet your needs. Or start your own. Be willing to adapt; be flexible early before asking for permission to do your own thing.
The issue has never been what builds can succeed at raids. Anyone who plays this game enough knows that mechanics and coordination are more important than builds. For pick-up-groups with unknown experience/expertise or any others struggling to succeed, it’s important to eliminate as many potential obstacles as possible.
Among the biggest impediments to success are:
- Unwillingness to adapt to circumstances — people are looking for flexibility.
- Unwillingness to follow the leader’s plan. Raids need everyone pulling together.
- Difficulty in communicating. There’s a lot of read-aim-fire (or even fire-aim-fire-ready-aim-fire), which means lots of instructions/suggestions; people have to trust that everyone understands.
Insisting that you want to bring a non-meta build before the raid has begun suggests an unwillingness to adapt and/or follow the commander’s lead.
Anyone can be a communication bottleneck, whether squad leaders, members, or potential recruits. The OP is probably well off being insta-kicked — that probably indicates a commander who’s unwilling to listen or work with the OP anyhow. By the same token, folks who justify their build with a phrase like “that’s just the way it is” aren’t going to be welcomed by a lot of groups; not many are willing to deal with someone who stopped listening before the conversation started.
tl;dr it’s your right to insist on bringing your choice of build; it’s also the commander’s choice to not welcome someone who does so. If you want to insist on insisting, then be very selective in the groups you join. Or better yet: start your own; you know that there are plenty of like-minded people who want to run their own build.
To be fair if the builds are on METAbattle then they are Meta.
No no no, that’s not true. There’s only one meta build for raids for Necro and it’s this one
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Reaper_-_Viper_HorrorWhy does everybody swear by it then, if it’s such a bad site then where is the GW2 equivalent to WoW’s Icy Veins?
Because, just like with dungeons, even the meta pushers can’t agree on some aspects of their definitions for meta or what is ‘good’, as it’s mostly a player fabrication.
Bottomline is what others have said; simply to respect groups you join for their requirements .. or people that join you groups respect your requirements.
I see now regarding the Meta status.
As far as Valk stats I use that for survivability, with the Reaper I can get Crit capped any way just through traits, my weapon and accessories are all ascended zerker.
Sure, I’m generalizing, but there’s your first problem: taking survivability stats; there are other team members that will keep you on your feet. If you are still going down either you’re doing something wrong or your support members are doing something wrong.
To address your original point though:
The word Meta get tossed around waaaay too much and, while Metabattle had it’s time of glory, it doesn’t hold quite the prestige that it used to. Nowadays qT are the go-to kids on the block because they not only post the gear, traits, stat distribution, but they also goes as far as putting videos together demonstrating the strength of the class they are showcasing.
Specifically, when it comes to Power Necro? Personally, I don’t bring them along, not even in fractals. I’m sure that there are players that have min-maxed that class to the max and can bring some amazing things to the table….but for the general player-base it’s an underpowered build. As in, what does the class that another class isn’t already doing if not doing it better. Other classes do more damage, offer more healing, etc.
Now, while Condi Necro was gutted there is definitely still a spot for a Necro because of how well they can manipulate conditions. pair that will tele-revive (which power necro does share), and you have a pretty good team player.
Ultimately though, you’re at the mercy of the group you are trying to join and what their play style is. Sure, any class/build is viable. I mean, you have top guilds beating bosses with as little as 4 players in a 10-man encounter. But not everyone that plays is as precise as top-guilds. Thus, each raid group will run with what they feel will best get them through the content.
Sure, a good portion of groups want to get thing done but also want to get them done quickly. Thus, they will go with “meta builds” which have more potential than your potato builds (woodenpotato pun not intended). The difference between a “meta build” and a potato build is that the meta build can outperform any other build if played to the precision and accuracy of its potential. Though in there lies, the problem, if you can’t perform in the meta build you’re gonna be hurting the team.
Thus, you have teams that don’t abide by meta simply because they know they cannot perform it to the precision needed, are uncomfortable with the build, or otherwise don’t care to run those builds. That’s where you lie and need to find a guild/group that shares that same mindset.
I guess I’ll just focus on my Warrior, in group content I assume the support will keep it healed, in the open world I’ll just trait the defense line since that’s solo with no pocket healers.
I’ve got to say though trying to do open world with a Zerker Berserker feels like trying to carry water from a well with a leaking bucket, at the end of any fight with 3 or more adds the guy’s losing health like a gunshot wound.
http://qtfy.enjin.com/builds is where the good builds are.
Thank’s for the link, I’m looking at the Warrior builds now.
I see now regarding the Meta status.
As far as Valk stats I use that for survivability, with the Reaper I can get Crit capped any way just through traits, my weapon and accessories are all ascended zerker.
Sure, I’m generalizing, but there’s your first problem: taking survivability stats; there are other team members that will keep you on your feet. If you are still going down either you’re doing something wrong or your support members are doing something wrong.
To address your original point though:
The word Meta get tossed around waaaay too much and, while Metabattle had it’s time of glory, it doesn’t hold quite the prestige that it used to. Nowadays qT are the go-to kids on the block because they not only post the gear, traits, stat distribution, but they also goes as far as putting videos together demonstrating the strength of the class they are showcasing.
Specifically, when it comes to Power Necro? Personally, I don’t bring them along, not even in fractals. I’m sure that there are players that have min-maxed that class to the max and can bring some amazing things to the table….but for the general player-base it’s an underpowered build. As in, what does the class that another class isn’t already doing if not doing it better. Other classes do more damage, offer more healing, etc.
Now, while Condi Necro was gutted there is definitely still a spot for a Necro because of how well they can manipulate conditions. pair that will tele-revive (which power necro does share), and you have a pretty good team player.
Ultimately though, you’re at the mercy of the group you are trying to join and what their play style is. Sure, any class/build is viable. I mean, you have top guilds beating bosses with as little as 4 players in a 10-man encounter. But not everyone that plays is as precise as top-guilds. Thus, each raid group will run with what they feel will best get them through the content.
Sure, a good portion of groups want to get thing done but also want to get them done quickly. Thus, they will go with “meta builds” which have more potential than your potato builds (woodenpotato pun not intended). The difference between a “meta build” and a potato build is that the meta build can outperform any other build if played to the precision and accuracy of its potential. Though in there lies, the problem, if you can’t perform in the meta build you’re gonna be hurting the team.
Thus, you have teams that don’t abide by meta simply because they know they cannot perform it to the precision needed, are uncomfortable with the build, or otherwise don’t care to run those builds. That’s where you lie and need to find a guild/group that shares that same mindset.
I guess I’ll just focus on my Warrior, in group content I assume the support will keep it healed, in the open world I’ll just trait the defense line since that’s solo with no pocket healers.
I’ve got to say though trying to do open world with a Zerker Berserker feels like trying to carry water from a well with a leaking bucket, at the end of any fight with 3 or more adds the guy’s losing health like a gunshot wound.
I play solo on a berserker/assassin warrior and I fully 100% the map and didn’t die too terribly much when I took it into Crucible of Eternity with PUGs who were likely just as new to the dungeon as I was.
The trick is knowing how many you can take on and keeping an eye on the surroundings to make sure you don’t grab too many enemies will dodging and moving around while fighting the one(s) you’re already fighting.
And having the gear stats and traits is as far as I go with any kind of “meta”. I can’t follow a rotation to save my life and my gear is mostly exotic with a spattering of ascended.
I guess I’ll just focus on my Warrior, in group content I assume the support will keep it healed, in the open world I’ll just trait the defense line since that’s solo with no pocket healers.
I’ve got to say though trying to do open world with a Zerker Berserker feels like trying to carry water from a well with a leaking bucket, at the end of any fight with 3 or more adds the guy’s losing health like a gunshot wound.
In most of the boss encounters, it is generally possible to avoid most damage incoming from bosses through good use of dodge rolls, blocks and good positioning. While all raid groups will have dedicated healers, this is not a carte blanche to eat every single boss attack. Be sure to help the healers help you by learning boss tells and animations so you can nail those dodges.
Also I’d like to point out what a difference a positive and flexible attitude can have. Compare the responses to this thread vs your last one and you can see how much more supportive people are.
Here’s a bit more to help you along since it sounds like you highly prefer Necro over Warrior. Raid encounters and Raid bosses are puzzles and the team composition are the puzzle pieces that “solve” the boss. Most of the player base prefers meta comps because it is a well proven solution so it reduces the opportunity for unforeseen circumstances occurring. Therefore it is important to understand where exactly your Power Necro fits into the solution, ie. Know what strengths and benefits your non-standard build can provide and also what you’ll be losing by replacing a meta slot with your build.
Here’s a quick list off the top of my head of what a Power Necro could do for a raid group.
1. Has strong cleave potential on multiple targets
Since Gravedigger recharges if ANY of the targets are under 50, you can use this to your advantage on bosses with large number of adds to get additional Gravedigger strikes on the boss.
2. Has an AoE pull
Very useful on bosses with adds such as Sloth and Xera so the team can aoe them down with the boss.
3. Has access to unique support options.
Well of Power, Transfusion, Plague Signet. I’ll use Matthias as an example for these.
Well of Power – The three conditions that Matthias puts on the party (Chill, Burning, Poison) also convert to nice boons (Resistance, Aegis, Regeneration) with Aegis being the strongest since all of Matthias’ attacks are blockable.
Transfusion – Lower cooldown than S&R as a rescue option and also hits multiple targets. Multiple go down to a hulk phase Matt Hadoken and a spirit is running through the center. Transfusion multiple people out of the spirit’s path while simultaneously ressing them and healing the party.
Plague signet – A ton of condition pressure relief on the rest of the party while also doubling as a stun break in case you get caught by a knockdown. The ability to pull chill off people running to fountains, pull burning on teammates that can’t seaweed salad shuffle, or pull poison off people the healer can more effectively heal them back up are all super helpful. On power necro though , plague signet is definitely harder to use because your ability to deal with conditions are limited.
4. Really flexible, huge break bar damage – Flesh golem, is nice in that it’s one of the few CC skills that allows you to keep doing what you’re doing without breaking your rotation. Here’s where it can be useful. You can continue to run corruption to a fountain without having to stop but can still contribute CC for the break bar. This ensures that you can run mechanics during these situations uninterrupted.
5. Higher HP pool lets you take certain risks – There are times where a Transfusion pull is insufficient for ressing a teammate so you need to simply force your way through it by face tanking. What better than way than to bring a class with 40k hp. Example: On Matthias, teammate goes down running corruption to fountain but still outside of transfusion range to be pulled the rest of the way. Turn on Reaper shroud, eat the corruption damage while ressing your teammate.
(1/2)
Cons
Other classes simply do it better – Ele AoE damage is unmatched. Mesmer curtain pull offers more precise pulls.
Relatively low dps ceiling – Because power necros are balanced around the fact that they can self stack 25 might, 25 vuln and hit 100 crit chance in a solo setting, their dps ceiling has to be lower in order to compensate.
Defensive support is generally less useful the more experienced a group is – This is just due to the fact that as people get better at fights, they go down less, they get hit by less things and so things like party condi clear become less useful or can be covered by an existing class like druid/mesmer.
That being said, just because Power Necro is not the best of the best in slot, it certainly doesn’t count it out for being useful on certain bosses. (Hint hint – Matthias) Also would like to point out that, while these options could work on a Power Necro, the Condi Variant generally runs it better.
(2/2)
Its too bad we don’t have official in game dps meters, so we could judge a person based on their performance rather than their class.
We’ve all seen the dnt thief video from dnt right? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beTkRWJjMp4) Simplicity of rotation is worth considering, and power necro rotation is pretty easy. It would be nice to see real numbers for it in a real raid setting.
Its too bad we don’t have official in game dps meters, so we could judge a person based on their performance rather than their class.
We’ve all seen the dnt thief video from dnt right? (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=beTkRWJjMp4) Simplicity of rotation is worth considering, and power necro rotation is pretty easy. It would be nice to see real numbers for it in a real raid setting.
I agree to the extent that your actual dps/contribution to the team is more based on the skill of the individual player rather than the class/build they pick up. However, while the player defines how good you are the class/build selection defines how good you can be. E.G. Someone trying to bring along a Healer Thief. Sure, that guy can have the most solid rotation in the world. Though, he’ll probably get beat by the druid AA-ing with Staff (I’m generalizing).
Certain classes simply excel at roles better than others.
https://www.reddit.com/r/guildrecruitment/
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/community/lookingfor
Two main guild recruitment areas. Look for a guild that does raids and is willing to bring classes/builds that aren’t in meta.
Anet make Rev great again.
Shikaru’s advice is apt: look for groups that meet your needs. Or start your own. Be willing to adapt; be flexible early before asking for permission to do your own thing.
The issue has never been what builds can succeed at raids. Anyone who plays this game enough knows that mechanics and coordination are more important than builds. For pick-up-groups with unknown experience/expertise or any others struggling to succeed, it’s important to eliminate as many potential obstacles as possible.
Among the biggest impediments to success are:
- Unwillingness to adapt to circumstances — people are looking for flexibility.
- Unwillingness to follow the leader’s plan. Raids need everyone pulling together.
- Difficulty in communicating. There’s a lot of read-aim-fire (or even fire-aim-fire-ready-aim-fire), which means lots of instructions/suggestions; people have to trust that everyone understands.
Insisting that you want to bring a non-meta build before the raid has begun suggests an unwillingness to adapt and/or follow the commander’s lead.
Anyone can be a communication bottleneck, whether squad leaders, members, or potential recruits. The OP is probably well off being insta-kicked — that probably indicates a commander who’s unwilling to listen or work with the OP anyhow. By the same token, folks who justify their build with a phrase like “that’s just the way it is” aren’t going to be welcomed by a lot of groups; not many are willing to deal with someone who stopped listening before the conversation started.
tl;dr it’s your right to insist on bringing your choice of build; it’s also the commander’s choice to not welcome someone who does so. If you want to insist on insisting, then be very selective in the groups you join. Or better yet: start your own; you know that there are plenty of like-minded people who want to run their own build.
To be fair if the builds are on METAbattle then they are Meta.
No no no, that’s not true. There’s only one meta build for raids for Necro and it’s this one
http://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Reaper_-_Viper_HorrorWhy does everybody swear by it then, if it’s such a bad site then where is the GW2 equivalent to WoW’s Icy Veins?
No one said it was a bad site, but not every build that’s listed is meta. A lot of the builds are experimental, in testing, or in progress. The meta builds are marked as such. They usually say “Our curator decided this build is in the current metagame regardless of rating.” but I assume that since Necro has fallen out of the meta due to the jagged horror nerf, they took off that line from the Viper Horror build. It used to have it before that patch.
So in other words a whole entire class is excluded from raiding, that doesn’t sound toxic or anything.
For what it’s worth, right now there really aren’t many cases where you’re better off with a comp that isn’t 2 chronos, 2 druids, 2 ps warriors, and 4 eles. It’s a team composition that’s easy to execute with, covers all the bases, and eles have the highest DPS. Only exception would be if condi damage is needed, except the druids can go condi druid for things like vale guardian and the warriors can as well, so really outside of those 4 classes the other 5 don’t really fit into the current raid meta well. I hate it, I got a revenant and a thief decked out in full ascended that are collecting dust because I never have a reason to bring them over my ele, but that’s just how it is.
Anet make Rev great again.
(edited by Wasabi Kitty.8247)
While the god-comp is indeed impossible to compete with, it may not be worthwhile for every raid group be it they don’t have the availability (class/gear), or the group simply can’t pull it off. Thus, you can run sub-optimal group compositions that can provide for a smoother run. I mean, Raid encounters have huge margins for errors where team can afford not to optimize.
For something like VG Thief is pretty good since your damage is more mobile than that of an Ele, and you don’t have to compete against large hitbox shenanigans. Especially in Sabetha I see thieves all the time as cannon runners. I’m sure they work great (not necessarily the BEST) in other bosses, but I personally don’t have any experience outside of those two encounters with thieves.
In regards to Revs? They’re actually really good for beginning groups. They have perma-uptime on things like Fury and Protection to keep outgoing damage high and incoming damage low. Personally, I would take a Rev where I would take a Guard for perma-protection especially in more mobile fights where symbols get trivial except in cases where you need range or are otherwise taking advantage of large hitboxes (where Scepter guard would do better).
Still though, I can’t find a place where I think to myself “Man, I really wish I had a Power Necro”. not saying it’s not 100% unviable, I just haven’t done any runs myself where the unique build of a Power Necro isn’t already covered (or superseded) by another class in my group.
Ultimately though, this all goes back to the what the team wants and what the goal is. Going for Sonic? God-comp the whole way. Trying to get some newbies into the fight? Well, optimize were you can and compromise where you have to/can afford.
Its too bad we don’t have official in game dps meters, so we could judge a person based on their performance rather than their class.
Decades of experience in other MMOs that do provide DPS meters is that they absolutely, without question, fail to achieve what you are suggesting they would.
Aside from their shortfalls in both tanking and healing, they still fail even on the basis of class-by-class DPS comparisons. Chasing the “flavor of the month” class for raiding in WoW, for example, is a real thing, even when the delta is minimal between the classes or specs.
It’s a people problem, the “meta”, and it’s never, ever going to be solved with technology. No matter how much you prove classes are equal, or that X provides utility that Y requires, you will still have people interpreting a five percent DPS difference on a fight as proof that a class is “so dead it could come from Orr” … or forgetting (or insisting) that only single-target or only cleave damage counts, or … whatever.
Can’t technology the dumb out of players. Even when developers stand up and say, point blank, that something is designed so it can be completed in (the equivalent of) rare gear, not even exotic or ascended, players still don’t believe you can achieve it without the best possible gear and class.
As SlippyCheeze says: blind reliance on a particular build or team composition is something that some players will do, no matter how well balanced the professions are.
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
Yup, SlippyCheeze nails it for sure! Until such a time as the mentality changes with people and having to have meta the problem will remain. Its killed raiding for me sadly, but that’s ok as there is plenty of other stuffs to do for sure. And if I pushed it my guild would take me into a raid on my Engi but I’ll wait and see if we make a huge comeback!!