Guild Wars 2

SYPHA.9283:

This games dungeons need no strategy. Just hack and slash. The dungeons were pitifully done and are stupid easy.

Hello,

I’ve enjoyed GW2’s dungeon but I would like to move to a next level.
Do you have any suggestions which MMO should I try if I want a challenging, well-designed dungeons which are fun to do?

Except wow. I want something good actually.

Thx

Harny.6012:

SYPHA.9283:

This games dungeons need no strategy. Just hack and slash. The dungeons were pitifully done and are stupid easy.

Hello,

I’ve enjoyed GW2’s dungeon but I would like to move to a next level.
Do you have any suggestions which MMO should I try if I want a challenging, well-designed dungeons which are fun to do?

Except wow. I want something good actually.

Thx

Every game I’ve played has fallen into the same situation. Content is somewhat difficult at first, people figure out some strategies and they get easier, people refine the strategies and they get even easier, people perfect the strategies and they get down right boring. Only difference is in those other games we would get more content about the time that they got so boring that we were about to quit the game. But… then again we also had the gear treadmill and that hamster wheel is not something I’d ever want to go back to.

Mesket.5728:

LordByron.8369:

30-60 milliseconds are a huge difference for reaction

That’s cute, my average latency from Argentina is 500-800… with 1.5K ms spikes but it’s still easy since the whole game can be learned like playing Simon.

Dungeons need much more improvisation

Frankly with a latency of 200+ you can’t really be effective in many dungeons.
Can you avoid the lupi kick for example?
Don’t think so.

If you are effective in any part of the game, that means just the game is not skillbased and instead is build or rotations based or something like that.
(yet you have to struggle way more than your opponent).

The only way to get some challenge is playing fractal.
They are not hard per se, but if you play with pugs you have to adapt fast and know lot of different strategies.

LordByron.8369:

Mesket.5728:

LordByron.8369:

30-60 milliseconds are a huge difference for reaction

That’s cute, my average latency from Argentina is 500-800… with 1.5K ms spikes but it’s still easy since the whole game can be learned like playing Simon.

Dungeons need much more improvisation

Frankly with a latency of 200+ you can’t really be effective in many dungeons.
Can you avoid the lupi kick for example?
Don’t think so.

Many have done Lupicus with higher ping/spikes, me included. After the long research put into him and Arah overall he’s a lot less of a skill indicator.

Applying knowledge still requires skill though. Yes, high latency might render you unable to react to some swift plays but in general experience can carry you through, be it fighting AI or people.

LordByron.8369:

Frankly with a latency of 200+ you can’t really be effective in many dungeons.
Can you avoid the lupi kick for example?
Don’t think so.

I am playing with around 300 all the time and I’m doing fine at Lupi. I guess it’s just a matter of practice.

I didn t say you can t complete arah
I said you can t react lupi kick.

If you evade consistently lupi kick (unless is timed but i don t know since i can see it and evade on reaction), it means you have way less latence than 300.

300 is a HUGE latence that years ago (when internet connection were way worse) was considered the limit from bad to unplayable online game.

I never played challenging games over 100 actually.

Position yourself right without giving him an opportunity to kitten around between attacks and you’ll dodge the kick on any level of delay. It is patterned though pattern varies from time to time. And some AI bugs happen rarely.

Playing with high latency is a matter of prediction. If you know what your opponent can use then you can prepare. Of course low delay offers more but saying that playing with anything higher than 300 is impossible to effective with, especially at GW2 dungeons is wrong.

Shooters are out of question though :D

Jerus.4350:

Harny.6012:

SYPHA.9283:

This games dungeons need no strategy. Just hack and slash. The dungeons were pitifully done and are stupid easy.

Hello,

I’ve enjoyed GW2’s dungeon but I would like to move to a next level.
Do you have any suggestions which MMO should I try if I want a challenging, well-designed dungeons which are fun to do?

Except wow. I want something good actually.

Thx

Every game I’ve played has fallen into the same situation. Content is somewhat difficult at first, people figure out some strategies and they get easier, people refine the strategies and they get even easier, people perfect the strategies and they get down right boring. Only difference is in those other games we would get more content about the time that they got so boring that we were about to quit the game. But… then again we also had the gear treadmill and that hamster wheel is not something I’d ever want to go back to.

The point was to provoke answers like this one.
Thank you

LordByron.8369:

I didn t say you can t complete arah
I said you can t react lupi kick.

If you evade consistently lupi kick (unless is timed but i don t know since i can see it and evade on reaction), it means you have way less latence than 300.

300 is a HUGE latence that years ago (when internet connection were way worse) was considered the limit from bad to unplayable online game.

I never played challenging games over 100 actually.

I dodge lupi kicks with 400- 600ms+ ping from Australia. The trick is to know when the next one is and dodge well before he even performs the kick.

J Eberle.9312:

LordByron.8369:

I didn t say you can t complete arah
I said you can t react lupi kick.

If you evade consistently lupi kick (unless is timed but i don t know since i can see it and evade on reaction), it means you have way less latence than 300.

300 is a HUGE latence that years ago (when internet connection were way worse) was considered the limit from bad to unplayable online game.

I never played challenging games over 100 actually.

I dodge lupi kicks with 400- 600ms+ ping from Australia. The trick is to know when the next one is and dodge well before he even performs the kick.

If its timed like coe champion ice-wolf attack that measn that PvE is really worse than i believed.

If i read correctly on reddit they finally hired someone to work on the AI.

I don’t think you are supposed to play everything by memory or luck (its not prediction because the lack of mindgames).

Also timed Attacks can’t be called AI, and that would mean this game has no AI at all.

P.S. but yet i m more inclined to think you misread your latence because 4-600 milliseconds is way worse than unpleasant.
If people more than 10 years ago refused to play with 1/3 of that i can’t believe today its acceptable by anyone.

LordByron.8369:

J Eberle.9312:

LordByron.8369:

I didn t say you can t complete arah
I said you can t react lupi kick.

If you evade consistently lupi kick (unless is timed but i don t know since i can see it and evade on reaction), it means you have way less latence than 300.

300 is a HUGE latence that years ago (when internet connection were way worse) was considered the limit from bad to unplayable online game.

I never played challenging games over 100 actually.

I dodge lupi kicks with 400- 600ms+ ping from Australia. The trick is to know when the next one is and dodge well before he even performs the kick.

If its timed like coe champion ice-wolf attack that measn that PvE is really worse than i believed.

If i read correctly on reddit they finally hired someone to work on the AI.

I don’t think you are supposed to play everything by memory or luck (its not prediction because the lack of mindgames).

Also timed Attacks can’t be called AI, and that would mean this game has no AI at all.

P.S. but yet i m more inclined to think you misread your latence because 4-600 milliseconds is way worse than unpleasant.
If people more than 10 years ago refused to play with 1/3 of that i can’t believe today its acceptable by anyone.

Trust me, I know what my latency is and yes it’s terrible. I study network engineering for a profession so I do know how to determine this. The thing about lupi kicks is it’s not predicable in the way that champ wolf is, because it’s always different. There’s a pattern that needs to be picked out and it tends to vary slightly each time. Once you’ve picked it, then you can predict it for the rest of the fight. It’s a completely unacceptable ping by my standards, but by australian standards well.. my ISP doesn’t care. But that’s another story again.

More complex AI won’t stop people on bad connection from clearing bosses consistently too.

Well as it is now i don t think what we have can be even called AI.
If it uses timed patterns even if they changes its not AI at all.

At this point PvE cannot be balanced for anyone that did the same thing more than once.

LordByron.8369:

Well as it is now i don t think what we have can be even called AI.
If it uses timed patterns even if they changes its not AI at all.

At this point PvE cannot be balanced for anyone that did the same thing more than once.

Its not timed patterns. Skills simply have a cooldown. Bosses tend to face/reposition before an attack (gives you an early hint well before any animation starts). And due to cooldowns, they tend to repeat in a rough pattern. Which means you predict attacks quite consistantly. RNG does still impact things. And chill can also mess up the pattern.

LordByron.8369:

Mesket.5728:

LordByron.8369:

30-60 milliseconds are a huge difference for reaction

That’s cute, my average latency from Argentina is 500-800… with 1.5K ms spikes but it’s still easy since the whole game can be learned like playing Simon.

Dungeons need much more improvisation

Frankly with a latency of 200+ you can’t really be effective in many dungeons.
Can you avoid the lupi kick for example?
Don’t think so.

If you are effective in any part of the game, that means just the game is not skillbased and instead is build or rotations based or something like that.
(yet you have to struggle way more than your opponent).
.

I read every post but I’ll reply from here

It’s true that high ping is bad for this game but since most boss skills are on the same rotation they will use at every cooldown, its easy to predict their attacks… that said, it is still difficult due spikes. If my ping stays at (lets say a good day) 500ms, then I can time everything half a second earlier… but if it is fluctuating between 500 and 750 then it gets harder.

Regarding randomness in dungeons… what I’m doing lately to have fun is forming AC parties with any lvl range (those “all welcome”). I love having new players in my parties and let the randomness happen. Specially those lvl 35-37 5-signet riffle warrior with 320 AP in scale armor ^^ you can never have enough fun when they start kiting and pulling extra mobs (disclaimer: I’m also helping some friends leveling with this)

As a solo player, Miku, you’ll love Archeage. Nothing like a game where you have marshal the entire efforts of a 100 man guild for a month to get one set of end game armor with the right stats. Enjoy! ( ?° ?? ?°)

The best in slot armour for archeAge is craftable.

Purple Miku.7032:

I had on average 200 ping last I remember in NA.

Doesn’t seem worth it to leave so many of my friends just to do jumping puzzles with 100-200 less ping on average.

Besides… Archeage in 3 days anyways

Pfft, Archeage…

spoj.9672:

The best in slot armour for archeAge is craftable.

That contradicts what I said how? Best in slot armor with good crafting procs requires dozens of attempts and requires mountains of Archeum. Have fun.

Did anyone else try the AA beta? What makes you want to play it?

Leveling was awful, just lots of generic “go kill ${rand( 3, 8 )} ${getLocalMobName()}.” and combat was meh — no CC, no active defense…felt like FFXIV but with better crafting endgame?

Since it’s F2P, I’ll probably grind to endgame anyway just to see what’s there, but what has people interested in it?

inb4 infraction — I’m sure our kind mods are going to help push me out the GW2 door….

J Eberle.9312:

LordByron.8369:

J Eberle.9312:

LordByron.8369:

I didn t say you can t complete arah
I said you can t react lupi kick.

If you evade consistently lupi kick (unless is timed but i don t know since i can see it and evade on reaction), it means you have way less latence than 300.

300 is a HUGE latence that years ago (when internet connection were way worse) was considered the limit from bad to unplayable online game.

I never played challenging games over 100 actually.

I dodge lupi kicks with 400- 600ms+ ping from Australia. The trick is to know when the next one is and dodge well before he even performs the kick.

If its timed like coe champion ice-wolf attack that measn that PvE is really worse than i believed.

If i read correctly on reddit they finally hired someone to work on the AI.

I don’t think you are supposed to play everything by memory or luck (its not prediction because the lack of mindgames).

Also timed Attacks can’t be called AI, and that would mean this game has no AI at all.

P.S. but yet i m more inclined to think you misread your latence because 4-600 milliseconds is way worse than unpleasant.
If people more than 10 years ago refused to play with 1/3 of that i can’t believe today its acceptable by anyone.

Trust me, I know what my latency is and yes it’s terrible. I study network engineering for a profession so I do know how to determine this. The thing about lupi kicks is it’s not predicable in the way that champ wolf is, because it’s always different. There’s a pattern that needs to be picked out and it tends to vary slightly each time. Once you’ve picked it, then you can predict it for the rest of the fight. It’s a completely unacceptable ping by my standards, but by australian standards well.. my ISP doesn’t care. But that’s another story again.

I think what he means is that if you’re dodging the kick out of prediction and not reaction, you’ll be wasting some dodges. Yes, you can predict it, but if reaction is possible with your latency, it is superior as sometimes he won’t kick when you thought he was going to.

hybrid.5027:

spoj.9672:

The best in slot armour for archeAge is craftable.

That contradicts what I said how? Best in slot armor with good crafting procs requires dozens of attempts and requires mountains of Archeum. Have fun.

It means your not forced to do group stuff to get it. It might take a long time but you can achieve that goal in any way you like.

hybrid.5027:

As a solo player, Miku, you’ll love Archeage. Nothing like a game where you have marshal the entire efforts of a 100 man guild for a month to get one set of end game armor with the right stats. Enjoy! ( ?° ?? ?°)

I got to level 19 in the last closed beta event. I enjoyed myself but I found it kind of clunky. GW2’s combat is vastly superior, but this game doesn’t seem to be as easy as GW2 so that’s nice.

Every game I’ve played has fallen into the same situation. Content is somewhat difficult at first, people figure out some strategies and they get easier, people refine the strategies and they get even easier, people perfect the strategies and they get down right boring. Only difference is in those other games we would get more content about the time that they got so boring that we were about to quit the game. But… then again we also had the gear treadmill and that hamster wheel is not something I’d ever want to go back to.

I agree and I don’t agree.
As a general pattern that’s true, because it’s true of all games. But, that doesn’t mean traditional vertical progression systems are just this totally malicious fluff or that GW2’s current state should be held in high regard.

When people talk about the learning/skill curve, this is what they’re referencing. Rather, this feeling we’re talking about is what the learning/skill curve spends the entire game actively trying to avoid. The learning curve is basically the content causing the player to slowly gain mastery over the combat system, and if you stop learning you get bored. A good way to think about it is that enemies are questions that ask you about the mechanics of the game, and bosses are quizzes that ask you to practically apply what you’ve learned in complex combination.

The problem with GW2 is that the total potential of the combat system far outstrips the demands PvE makes of you, by like, orders of magnitudes. It’s normal for the PvE and PvP of an MMORPG to have some sort of divide, but in the very least the constant churn of content attempts to highlight various mechanics even if it can’t simulate the complexities of a player. In GW2 you come out of the dungeon experience and know next to nothing about how the combat system works, because it rarely bothered to ask you anything other than one achingly stupid question.

Ennui, sure, it’s legitimately a thing.
But that doesn’t really mean the quality of every game’s dungeon is equal.

I don’t think you are supposed to play everything by memory or luck (its not prediction because the lack of mindgames).

The only time luck is ever relevant is when rolling boss RNG for solo recordings or dungeon records. Anything beyond that you can overcome through mastery of your class and the encounter. I don’t see why playing by memory is bad, is learning tells supposed to be a bad thing? Is me taking double healer and double tanky DPS w/fire resistance “not intended” when killing high dragons in dragon age? like … I don’t even.

At this point PvE cannot be balanced for anyone that did the same thing more than once.

Sure it can. If you’re lazy on 3-headed wurm you won’t get very far, you have to be organised no matter how many times you do it. Even Tequatl requires a semi-organised server. They’re balanced around being done multiple times. High level fractals pose a challenge no matter how many times you do them, you can’t entirely brain-afk arah either.

In GW2 you come out of the dungeon experience and know next to nothing about how the combat system works, because it rarely bothered to ask you anything other than one achingly stupid question.

I learned my classes and combat system all through dungeons.

PvP is just little asuras running around casting hard hitting skills with basically zero choreograph forcing players to just monkey roll around hope they get lucky on their dodge.

No good sir, that was an earthshaker, not a dodge. Now prepare to have your face kicked in because this game’s PvP has stupid nonexistent choreographs on skills that can hit like a train.

This problem still exists in PvE to an extent (screw asura anything bosses), but you tend to fight more monsters or scaled up humanoids which allows them to have clearer tells.

Curious Vox, what about the combat system do you not learn in dungeons?

Good for you (and I mean that sincerely).

But allowing you to perform actions without restraints is not the same thing as creating content that maintains a smooth learning curve. Good curves will create immersions and investment, whereas ad-hoc requires those already being there.

So basically your post, Vox, boils down to, “lul pve easy pvp is where good players are top kek”

I think the learning curve is pretty fine. The only issue is at this point finding people who are at the same level as you to start learning the dungeons. You’re basically stuck either finding a mentor, or watching guides and winging it till you get the hang of it.

The learning curve though starts in the open world. I learned so much just leveling in the game initially. How to use my tools including combo fields. Learning about various attacks including fields, delayed red circle attacks, charged attacks, evade attacks, slow attacks you can avoid with positioning, etc.

@hybrid
You’re oversimplifying to the point of miscommunication. What I’m saying doesn’t really boil down into an easy simple soundbite, or trust me, I wouldn’t of spent so much time writing that up. :p

@ Jerus
I’ve got nothing against the open world pulling it’s weight during the whole process. However, if I were to respond to the rest, I’d pretty much just be repeating my last post.

I think this summarizes the OP quite well.

No Pulse.2967:

I think this summarizes the OP quite well.

No Pulse.2967:

I think this summarizes the OP quite well.

That video made my entire life better.

Jerus.4350:

I think the learning curve is pretty fine.

mmm no
Its not a curve its a step

You never did it, you die horribly with 0 chances.
You watched a video/read a guide/done it before: you can almost write a macro and go afk.

(this for speedruns… with pugs it slughtly changes)

LordByron.8369:

Jerus.4350:

I think the learning curve is pretty fine.

mmm no
Its not a curve its a step

You never did it, you die horribly with 0 chances.
You watched a video/read a guide/done it before: you can almost write a macro and go afk.

(this for speedruns… with pugs it slughtly changes)

Looking at all the people out there who die horribly at every boss, despite them doing them multiple times before and/or watching videos, I’m pretty sure that’s not true.
Also, I don’t see what’s wrong wiping/dying on a boss if it’s your first time. You don’t know any telegraphs and what skills do, but you can still manage if you observe a bit first and don’t go into full offensive, if that’s possible at least.

people who dies horribly simply don t understand how limited the AI is.
Someday someomne will explain them, and at that point ANY dungeon will be boring unless they work on AI.
And wiping at first boss encounter is wrong.
If you are skilled you deserve to have a chance, rather than basing each fight on memory and fail and repeat that was already considered the number one mistake in game design many years ago.

For some reason i can t explain myself, before demon soul, this kind of gameplay was considered extremely wrong by every review.

That because impacts heavily longevity and adds unnecessary frustration.
A game should be based on reaction Windows and tactics and not to learn attack patterns and rotations.

P.S. note that demon souls is an extremely misunderstood series…was just a budget next gen port of an old game, that was mistaken for innovative while it was just the standard of 10 years before.
And GW2 dungeons have lot in common with it.

LordByron.8369:

people who dies horribly simply don t understand how limited the AI is.
Someday someomne will explain them, and at that point ANY dungeon will be boring unless they work on AI.
And wiping at first boss encounter is wrong.
If you are skilled you deserve to have a chance, rather than basing each fight on memory and fail and repeat that was already considered the number one mistake in game design many years ago.

For some reason i can t explain myself, before demon soul, this kind of gameplay was considered extremely wrong by every review.

That because impacts heavily longevity and adds unnecessary frustration.
A game should be based on reaction Windows and tactics and not to learn attack patterns and rotations.

P.S. note that demon souls is an extremely misunderstood series…was just a budget next gen port of an old game, that was mistaken for innovative while it was just the standard of 10 years before.
And GW2 dungeons have lot in common with it.

…or they simply have problems dodging the attacks. I’d like to hear of a Hack’n’Slay or MMO where every enemy (or at least boss) actively tries to counter you. Most games don’t do that and if there are bosses, usually only other swordsman counter your attacks (which usually ends up in them either blocking or performing the same counter mov over and over again if you attack in the wrong timespan) while most of the other enemies only act and don’t react, like in GW2. And of course, AI has always been “exploited”, it was the same in GW1. That being said, the AI could still use a rework, but it will never be extremely advanced.

While the game certainly is easier than others, that doesn’t make it faceroll for the most part, even if it is for us. Even if someone knows how the AI works, he can still die to their skills, especially if said skills are hitting extremely hard and you’re on a squishy class.

I think you can manage most fights without dying even if you don’t know them but are good enough. I’m just saying that it can easily happen that you wipe on your first try.
Also, it’s needless to say that everything is much easier once you know it; this applies to every game. Once you know how to counter something, you’re going to have much less trouble. It’s inevitable.

Oh and btw, I only played Dark Souls towards the end of the last year and loved that game mainly for the art (lore, soundtrack, design, atmosphere etc.).

I might say that dark souls and co are considered between the most difficult games around.

Like GW2, players finish it naked once they understand its all about Learning patterns.

It suffers the same exact problem, but dark soul is a long one player game you finish once (PvP is risible).

LordByron.8369:

I might say that dark souls and co are considered between the most difficult games around.

Like GW2, players finish it naked once they understand its all about Learning patterns.

It suffers the same exact problem, but dark soul is a long one player game you finish once (PvP is risible).

I very well know that, some bosses drove me mad (especially Ornstein and Smough, kittenmit).

But it’s the same thing with all repetitive content, once you know how the game is trying to kill you, you’ll counter it. In GW1 you picked skills to counter what the enemy throws at you, here it’s a mix of active defenses and needing to know when/what to dodge.
I get your point, but a better AI can’t fix that even though it would help making the combat more interesting. What we need imo is new content with enemies we don’t know, which also pose an actual threat at the same time and can’t be rendered completely harmless with skills. We don’t get said content, thus the content we have gets stupidly easy because we exactly know what’s going to happen, how it’s going to happen and how to act. Fails happen mostly because you fail the dodge, some random crap happens or you’re relying on a teammate to cast a skill when said teammate either forgets about it or doesn’t even have it slotted, almost never because the boss took you by surprise.

You should apply to one of those dungeon guilds. The trial process will be a cinch you can probably do it with macros.

So the hardest parts of dungeons are thought to be “bosses” in the gaming world (imho).

Some of the bosses in GW2 (for easier dungeons)
COF1 boss – can’t stack (you can… but if you can’t dodge you die)
COF2 boss – can’t stack (kill acolytes and then run to middle)
HOTW1 boss – if you stack he will 1 shot the whole group
HOTW2 boss – underwater fight… need to keep moving in my opinion
FOTM bosses – none of them are stacking bosses
etc. (to tired to think…)

J Eberle.9312:

You should apply to one of those dungeon guilds. The trial process will be a cinch you can probably do it with macros.

Where can I download those macros?

Personally I started playing probably like 7 months ago now. It’s definitely been a curve for me. First time into some dungeons I was completely lost, I was basically being carried while I learned the terrain. After a run or two I learned where to go and where things were. Then I started learning the fights/skips and what different enemies did. I remember going “ahh ha, see the graveling start to charge, 1..2.. DODGE!” I remember SE3 being a major pain in the rear (and sometimes still is due to bad vision) where my groups would have to rely on FGS to get through most bosses because we didn’t know the tells. Now I can do that last fight without taking much damage at all as long as I don’t screw up.

I’ve watched the Lupi videos dozens of times, but I still haven’t been able to solo him, maybe that just makes me terrible at the game but hey I’m having fun.

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

LordByron.8369:

I might say that dark souls and co are considered between the most difficult games around.

Like GW2, players finish it naked once they understand its all about Learning patterns.

It suffers the same exact problem, but dark soul is a long one player game you finish once (PvP is risible).

I very well know that, some bosses drove me mad (especially Ornstein and Smough, kittenmit).

But it’s the same thing with all repetitive content, once you know how the game is trying to kill you, you’ll counter it. In GW1 you picked skills to counter what the enemy throws at you, here it’s a mix of active defenses and needing to know when/what to dodge.
I get your point, but a better AI can’t fix that .

You are wrong:
Play halo3 one of the games with a really GOOD AI to tell one.

As i said dark souls is the example of the most OUTDATED mechanics ever seen in a VG.
GW2 is worse :|

I add that some other games have more interesting mechanics that requires less AI.

Gw2 has no mechanic
No AI
And is supposed to require repeating of the same content.

That is his falling point.

At least requiring the usual trinity, could make cooperation different and fun every time depending on players style.

Deleting the trinity without thinking at PvE was a huge mistake.

You can have a great gameplay but if the game requires you to just rotate skills, in the end the game becomes more stale than the old school mmorpgs.

LordByron.8369:

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

LordByron.8369:

I might say that dark souls and co are considered between the most difficult games around.

Like GW2, players finish it naked once they understand its all about Learning patterns.

It suffers the same exact problem, but dark soul is a long one player game you finish once (PvP is risible).

I very well know that, some bosses drove me mad (especially Ornstein and Smough, kittenmit).

But it’s the same thing with all repetitive content, once you know how the game is trying to kill you, you’ll counter it. In GW1 you picked skills to counter what the enemy throws at you, here it’s a mix of active defenses and needing to know when/what to dodge.
I get your point, but a better AI can’t fix that .

You are wrong:
Play halo3 one of the games with a really GOOD AI to tell one.

As i said dark souls is the example of the most OUTDATED mechanics ever seen in a VG.
GW2 is worse :|

I add that some other games have more interesting mechanics that requires less AI.

Gw2 has no mechanic
No AI
And is supposed to require repeating of the same content.

That is his falling point.

At least requiring the usual trinity, could make cooperation different and fun every time depending on players style.

Deleting the trinity without thinking at PvE was a huge mistake.

You can have a great gameplay but if the game requires you to just rotate skills, in the end the game becomes more stale than the old school mmorpgs.

People will hate me for that but I found Dark soul combat to be worse than GW2. GW2 is fast paced, Dark soul was just very slow skill, with very long aftercast. I reached end game quiet easily, I did play a warrior though.

GW2 does have an AI, better than most game. Just look at the aggro system in GW2. The mob/boss look for people with low HP, proximity, people res’ing, high toughness, class. People think it’s random but it isn’t.

Simple example, Fighting archdiviner, one tactic is to slowly walk backward when you have aggro, while your team hit him in the back, however, if the person walking backward dodge back, he gets out of range, then archdiviner will turn around and hit everyone behind.

I’m not saying it’s perfect, but I’m telling you, 99% of the players still think it’s random aggro. Also as many people say, boss don’t have a skill rotation, they have cooldowns. If you know how long the cooldown is you can predict when he will use it again. (he might not use it right away) Also mob stop moving when they are about to use a skill, so you can see it coming even before he start it.

Trice.4598:

LordByron.8369:

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

LordByron.8369:

I might say that dark souls and co are considered between the most difficult games around.

Like GW2, players finish it naked once they understand its all about Learning patterns.

It suffers the same exact problem, but dark soul is a long one player game you finish once (PvP is risible).

I very well know that, some bosses drove me mad (especially Ornstein and Smough, kittenmit).

But it’s the same thing with all repetitive content, once you know how the game is trying to kill you, you’ll counter it. In GW1 you picked skills to counter what the enemy throws at you, here it’s a mix of active defenses and needing to know when/what to dodge.
I get your point, but a better AI can’t fix that .

You are wrong:
Play halo3 one of the games with a really GOOD AI to tell one.

As i said dark souls is the example of the most OUTDATED mechanics ever seen in a VG.
GW2 is worse :|

I add that some other games have more interesting mechanics that requires less AI.

Gw2 has no mechanic
No AI
And is supposed to require repeating of the same content.

That is his falling point.

At least requiring the usual trinity, could make cooperation different and fun every time depending on players style.

Deleting the trinity without thinking at PvE was a huge mistake.

You can have a great gameplay but if the game requires you to just rotate skills, in the end the game becomes more stale than the old school mmorpgs.

People will hate me for that but I found Dark soul combat to be worse than GW2. GW2 is fast paced, Dark soul was just very slow skill, with very long aftercast. I reached end game quiet easily, I did play a warrior though.

GW2 does have an AI, better than most game. Just look at the aggro system in GW2. The mob/boss look for people with low HP, proximity, people res’ing, high toughness, class. People think it’s random but it isn’t.

Simple example, Fighting archdiviner, one tactic is to slowly walk backward when you have aggro, while your team hit him in the back, however, if the person walking backward dodge back, he gets out of range, then archdiviner will turn around and hit everyone behind.

I’m not saying it’s perfect, but I’m telling you, 99% of the players still think it’s random aggro. Also as many people say, boss don’t have a skill rotation, they have cooldowns. If you know how long the cooldown is you can predict when he will use it again. (he might not use it right away) Also mob stop moving when they are about to use a skill, so you can see it coming even before he start it.

The opinion you have on darksouls gameplay is acceptable.
Afetr all GW2 has a good gameplay. (but i say i love the low paced fights with adequate reactiion Windows).

But i think nobody can agree with you on AI.
The aggro system alone is one of the worse mistakes in the game, its elementary, undocumented and too random to be included in actual tactics.

Only thing you can do with the aggro system (imho the worst ever seen in a game) is as usual exploit it.
And its also one of the causes of stacking.

Try Killing something that runs stupidly around or even worse toward the Damage dealer without any counterplay ASIDE stacking.

P.S: i know how aggro system works that is why nobody can have full control on it.
(ex ressing gets the most aggro, for every boss; dps gets aggro on some, thoughness on Others and so on).

Jerus.4350:

Curious Vox, what about the combat system do you not learn in dungeons?

Interrupt that heal!!

LordByron.8369:

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

LordByron.8369:

I might say that dark souls and co are considered between the most difficult games around.

Like GW2, players finish it naked once they understand its all about Learning patterns.

It suffers the same exact problem, but dark soul is a long one player game you finish once (PvP is risible).

I very well know that, some bosses drove me mad (especially Ornstein and Smough, kittenmit).

But it’s the same thing with all repetitive content, once you know how the game is trying to kill you, you’ll counter it. In GW1 you picked skills to counter what the enemy throws at you, here it’s a mix of active defenses and needing to know when/what to dodge.
I get your point, but a better AI can’t fix that .

You are wrong:
Play halo3 one of the games with a really GOOD AI to tell one.

I played Halo 3. AI was more intelligent but could still be outsmarted, since you can always do that with AI. No matter how intelligent the AI is, the community will ALWAYS find a way to somehow exploit the AI and even if it’s just to make the fights 5% easier. Btw, Halo 3 AI was very predictable in the end because they always did the exact same thing based on what you did. And the Flood had basically no AI whatsoever (but that was on purpose, obviously).

//Oh and regarding the GW2-Aggro System. Well what do you think would happen if you could make enemies stick to you? You could tank. Next to ANet not wanting that this would mean one person can pull everything together while the rest of the team nukes them (like in almost every MMO with trinity), or he runs out of defensive options (dodges, blocks mainly) because the rest of the team doesn’t get the slightest bit of aggro. It’s actually kind of important that aggro switches on a regular basis.

I don t agree with you:
Halo3 at max difficult settings don t react exactly to what you do simply because you can t reproduce the same behavior yourself.

It have been one of the best AI for long (in later chapters even the cooperative mode to defend bases was really fun and impressive)..
Also you don’t even have to cheat AI because you have game mechanics making the same fights Always fun.

In GW2 dungeons there is AI cheating OR frustration.
No midground.

Not to mention that since forever its Crystal clear that the number one gimmick if you don t have a decent AI is putting HP sponges with 1HITKO Attacks…

Basically all dungeon fights of Gw2.

Ah yes, these mythical one shot bosses. Oh wait, rarely any of them one shot. Most of them hit like noodles.

OP, are you claiming that dungeons being easy is an objective fact? I have no problem believing you and many others (including me) can complete dungeon without pulling much effort – but that’s just some individuals that others don’t care about. I can easily point you to many players who are unable to complete dungeons, not mentioning completing them with consistency. If they were easy to you from the very beginning (thus when you were not using optimal strategies), which I highly doubt, then I can say you are very skilled, but not many people are (apparently), which you simply have to deal with. I suggest you find another game that is perhaps focused on players with high skill level, not an MMO which is for…. you know… massive audience.

Also, does really content being easy prevent you from having fun somehow? Yes, I do like to test my abilities, but sometimes I play games just to relax and if something is not really challenging, it does not become automatically “unfun” to me.

While I agree that this game could use some content, which is not as repetitive and definitely more challenging (so it gets more rewarding for skilled players), I am pretty happy with the living story releases, possibly because I am not used to frequent major updates and content expansions in games I usually play. Again, if Liadri-like stuff is not enough for you, you should consider playing completely different game. Otherwise, the only thing you can probably get from this is showing you massive ego by making stupid threads of literally no value… just like you did.