Guild Wars 2

It is their group, they can have who ever they want. The main reason I like to have level 80s in my group is they generally have a clue.

However my group will take who ever we can get. Just last not going through CM (the manor in queensdale) We took a level 50 and level 47. The pulls were horrible as one of them just did not have a clue how to play and the other did not really know the dungeon.

Nevertheless I got through only 2 times I was dead dead as compared to being downed.

So you get in the groups you get in.

Nah nothing to do with being “Elistist”, its just efficiency. OP is taking it too personally.

Most people run dungeons for the tokens, not for the scenery or for a fulfilling experience. People just want to do it as painlessly and smoothly as possible within the shortest time, and with a full 80 party chances of this are much higher.

Its a fact that theres a notable difference between a full exotic 80 char scaled to 30, and a 30 char with 30s gear, for reasons stated in the posts above. This is not theory crafting. Try running a low level dungeon with 80s as compared to 30-40s, the difference is extremely noticeable. Also 80s are more likey to know the runs as well.

To all those that cry that people don’t take you in their group because you never done it before well.. I’D TELL YOU TO GO DO SOMETHING TO YOURSELF …But since that ‘d probaly get me a warning..
I just came from an Arah path2 run.It took 30 mins only to explain them what to do.And after an hour of trying and trying and trying and failing and faling and failing again , I $$*$%7346j gave up.So Don’t Come Here to Tell ME WHO I can take in my group or not.

I’ve run a tremendous amount of AC at a variety of levels across three different professions now. I’ve argued tooth and nail around these forums that level 80 elitism is BAD FOR THIS COMMUNITY, and i cannot stress that enough because it is absolutely true.

that said, not two hours ago, a myself (lv 41 engineer), a level 80 warrior, and three lower levels went into a dungeon. The 80 was respectful, told me upfront he’d never done it before, and asked me if i was experienced enough to lead. I told him hellz yeah, and we cleared it with the rest of the group, who were all between levels 35 and 40. And that was basically the last we heard from them. After wiping on the baby spiders (not even the queen), i tried giving more specific directions. they agreed, and we proceeded to wipe to the queen, which i haven’t done since week two. And i played my kittening kitten off. we had the kitten thing down to 1/10 HP, easily, and i watched our lone living teammate autoattack it while i died on the floor for nearly two minutes. I yelled for a rez, and was ignored. i actually left the group, which i refuse to do on principle. Myself and the other 80 found three more 80’s and ran the dungeon in almost 20 minutes.

the single biggest problem in GW dungeons is that players are struggling to maintain patience, humor, and communication throughout the entire experience. These dungeons are not horribly hard when they’re explained, but people have to be open to explanations. I don’t want to be the “can’t we all just get along” guy, but for real, there is a phenomenal amount of anger involved in this game, and this thread is proof. it’s bad for the game, team. it’s bad for the game.

NightyNight.1823:

To all those that cry that people don’t take you in their group because you never done it before well.. I’D TELL YOU TO GO DO SOMETHING TO YOURSELF …But since that ‘d probaly get me a warning..
I just came from an Arah path2 run.It took 30 mins only to explain them what to do.And after an hour of trying and trying and trying and failing and faling and failing again , I $$*$%7346j gave up.So Don’t Come Here to Tell ME WHO I can take in my group or not.

The main issue isent who you can or cant take. Its a 2 part problem.

1: Groups advertise LFxM For X. Invite person. Person is not 80 and kicks.
2: Groups advertise LFxM For X. Invite person. Person is 80 but some of the others are not. The new level 80 starts complaining or flat starting a vote to kick the lower level’s.

In case 1 the group was not advertised as being a level 80 speed run. As such it is bs that you kicked someone. In case number two the group was a general group and one level 80 tries to take over the group and kick the lower players or form the group to there liking. In both of these cases its total bs and that type of player needs to leave. Now people wanting to do speed runs and making it clear they want to do such by advertising “LFxM For X. Level 80’s only. Speed Clear.” is perfectly fine in my book as there are times you really dont have 1 hour or more to run a single zone.

This has made me very nervous, honestly. I have a level 80 mesmer that’s done every story mode in the game and most of the explorable modes. (Missing a path in Arah, HoTW and CoF atm.) But she’s heavy-support specced. 0/0/25/25/20 I even advertise myself as a guardian replacement for groups thinking they need a ‘dian. I’ve NEVER had trouble with PUGs, and in all my runs I’ve only failed to complete the path, due to rage quits, wiping or otherwise, in less than 10% of the times I’ve gone. Probably more like 5%. Never have I worried about level, class or gear when joining or forming groups.
I’m now leveling an elementalist for the sake of making a high-dps specced character. I love making alts and I feel like this’d be more enjoyable than getting my mesmer a second spec/gear/weapon set up to switch too everytime we needed dps instead. But the areas are getting boring. I’ve map completed everything in PvE and I long desperately to go to a dungeon for the nice exp boost, and generally more exciting experience instead. I just don’t think I could convince anyone to take my now lvl 46 elementalist with them yet. It’s sad and frustrating that the game was made so that you don’t have to “Wait” for endgame and then I find myself… waiting.

If you’re doing a level 80 speed run, you need to say so when looking for people. If not, you need to stop complaining and let people who are the same level as the dungeon is designed for run them.

Ok I didnt take the time to read past the 5th or 6th post here. This seems to be a recurring theme on the forums lately and in case no one else has mentioned….the +heal power gear doesnt start till lvl 65. We’ve all heard the arguments that stats scale back blah blah but the fact is that generally people are going to have better survivability at high lvls, period…..and then in most cases only after they have already tried out a dps spec and hopefully figured out that w/o enough hps, toughness, and heal power they are a detriment to any group they are in.

Do I take lower lvls into my groups, yes, but I’m always much happier when the people who respond are lvl 80 and let me tell you the difference in clear times is very noticable. Like one of the previous posters stated, I dont have a ton of time to get things done and dragging lower lvls through while constantly having to rez them does get old and frustrating.

Personally after maxing one toon with a friend, we ran a few dungeons and then rerolled and started over with toons that we specifically picked to be more dungeon friendly, ele for me and guard for my friend……we lvled them to 80 and didnt bother doing any dungeons till we had full traits and were specced out for survivability. So after all that effort if we want to minimize our frustration that is our right. We didnt ask anyone else to struggle through with us at low lvls.

They do this for a reason, 1 player in games like Rift and WoW can wipe a whole riad by not having the right gear or experience. So for the rest of the group who has worked for days, weeks, sometimes months to get where they are dont want some noob joining them and wiping their whole raid. Simple as that.

Ghost.6247:

They do this for a reason, 1 player in games like Rift and WoW can wipe a whole riad by not having the right gear or experience. So for the rest of the group who has worked for days, weeks, sometimes months to get where they are dont want some noob joining them and wiping their whole raid. Simple as that.

This game is not like Rift or WoW. This is a skill > gear game, not a gear > skill game like those. Most dungeons are designed for people below 80, including exploration mode.

You know, I have completed AC (story + all 3 explorable), CM (story + all 3 explorable) plus done TA story + 2 x explorable paths and CoF story + 2 x explorable path (haven’t done 3 yet). I also did story mode for every dungeon but Arah and only reason I haven’t done Arah because I promised my brother I would do it with him. Across all the dungeons I have collected 1660 tokens.

But I am not in full exotic armour. I choose to put my dungeon tokens towards dungeon weapons and both my level 80s have all exotic weapons. But my armour is level 80 rares. I hear all this talk of being in “full exotics” and I am like o.O I mean, hell! My little Asura Engineer earned every single one of the 510 CM tokens she spent to get her pistol and shield and she got the majority of them when she wasn’t even level 80 (between level 55 and 70 for most of them in fact). It’s only the last 3 runs of CM to get enough token to get the shield was my Asura level 80.

I mean, at some point this elitism stops making sense. Surely experience and skill is > gear! Anyone who has done a few story modes know generally how a dungeon works and unless they are total nubs, require only a little explanation to get a hang of a new dungeon. Plus AC, CM and TA do not need level 80s!

DavidGX.1723:

Ghost.6247:

They do this for a reason, 1 player in games like Rift and WoW can wipe a whole riad by not having the right gear or experience. So for the rest of the group who has worked for days, weeks, sometimes months to get where they are dont want some noob joining them and wiping their whole raid. Simple as that.

This game is not like Rift or WoW. This is a skill > gear game, not a gear > skill game like those. Most dungeons are designed for people below 80, including exploration mode.

Not to mention that GW dungeons factor in death and one person can stop a boss from resetting while the rest of the team runs back from WP.

Not gonna lie and dont take this as braging but more simply events and things that i’ve seen. There are level 30’s and 40’s out there who are better and more use in a dungeon than several 80’s around simply because they know the class and skills they use inside out. Down to the combos and where to be. Level and 100 extra points in a certain attribute mean less to me than knowledge of the class and role of the build.

As a bottom line, if you play like a kitten you don’t deserve to be there… level 80 or not.

If you are on Ring of Fire Ill run with you, you just need to make it clear that you know the dungeon so take the time to learn it first and people will let you play.

Heres one thing people never pay attention too. If ArenaNet wanted level 80 elitests, they would made ALL dungeons for 80s only.

Making a only level 80 run for a level 35 dungeon is like taking Deadmines in WoW and only letting level 90s run it. Except one problem with GW2’s Dungeons, They are equally challanged to all players no matter the level and the rewards are exactly the same and scale with level. That is the point of what ANet is trying to make to make a game CHALLANGING not a boring, repeative, easy run over and over and over. If you want to run something easy and repeativily for 5 years, go play WoW. Some people want to have a challange because it gives the gameplay purpose. All these level 80s who are destorying lower levels gameplay need to either have temp. bans or locked from dungeons for a set period of time because its destructive to others gameplay.

From the way you are reacting. It sounds to me, that you want to FORCE 80’s to help you. It’s a free world, some ppl don’t mind, some do. You just need to live with it and block said players.

But also keep in mind they are grinding those tokens. A full 80’s team vs. a mixed lvl team spread out over 20+ runs. A HUGE difference in completion times and repair costs.

While you call ppl elitists, some may call you challenger-ist. So avoid the drama, start your own team and everyone wins.

For the record, i don’t care about lvls, as long as they make that min req lvl. Sometimes i want a speedrun, sometimes i don’t.
If a lowbie /joins a 80’s only speedrun tag (chat). In this case I’d vote kick.
If a lowbie /joins a team without the speedrun tag. In this case, i wouldn’t and if the group still votes kick, i’d be polite and leave.

Learn, be informed through guides, complaining brings you nothing. I would never run with the OP, neither with his alts for reasons he popped here. People who wants a low level run should look for a low level group and not leech the high level groups nor complain that guys are looking for 80’s only groups. If you are really new, then like the rest of those who made it to 80, learn how to run the dungeon effectively by joining lower level guys as well.

foofad.5162:

I’m an 80 and I’ve never cared what level my group was in AC exploration. As long as they follow along and listen, I don’t even care if they’re first timers.

Some don’t. Best way to filter people for a dungeon group imo are the account points (I’m on 3k, I filter for 1500).
Not everybody fits to do Speed Runs. Once I almost got kicked from speeding the dungeon, thanks god I was the first one entering the dungeon.

Just no. There is a good reason why people are taking level 80s over level 35 players. This content is much easier with a full level 80 group. For starters, your armour will have three stats on it starting at level 55 I believe. At 35 you are usually either running power/vitality, power/precision or toughness/vitality (or is it healing/vitality – I can’t remember). A level 80 will often be running either a glass cannon or a mix of DPS and defense stats. I notice a massive performance different on my guardian who ran the dungeon at 35 in hearty gear (I believe it is toughness/vitality) compared to him at 80 in power/precision/toughness gear. My traits are better, my survivability is great, my DPS is great, it’s all round much smoother. I’m able to take heat for longer, I kill things faster, I don’t spend as much time dodge rolling around and strafing till a heal comes off of cooldown. I’m better able to focus on DPS, which makes the run much smoother, especially when this dungeon in particular focuses so strongly on some encounters being a DPS check. The graveling burrows are one of the most difficult encounters in the game with a pug that can’t take them out quickly. A high DPS group will mow them down before many gravelings can even come out. A high DPS lvl 35 will do less damage, if not because of inferior stats, because they need to evade more due to their squishy nature.

I occasionally run dungeons on lower level toons, but there is a considerable performance different on a level 80 and that becomes very noticeable to most people who pug often. I will often run dungeons with lower levels, but get too many in the party and things can go south much more easily. When I am pressured to run several times a day to get my 180 tokens for the very high token grind of the dungeons, I try to make it as smooth as possible. I don’t want to spend 90 minutes wiping on graveling burrows when an 80 party will be done in 20 minutes.

I have to agree with the point that a LOT (but not all) of the level 80s that want only fellow 80s in their groups are generally pretty bad at the dungeon. I try to avoid PuGs , sometimes they’re unavoidable and the level 80s tend to be the worst behaved.

If I take someone with no experience into a dungeon I know, then I expect them to listen, clearly if I’ve run the dungeon before, I should know the tactics and I will always vocalise them before every boss fight/event. Should I forget something I will put my hand up and apologise to the party. However this is where you can tell the difference between a good and bad player. The level 80s I take generally seem to think that they know best, will charge off, avoid my tactics and end up dying repeatedly. The lower level characters, this being their main, will generally listen. Yeah they’ll make mistakes but they won’t run off thinking they know best and you can easily compensate for one or two party members being a little unskilled in a dungeon if the other three have any idea what they’re doing.

I’ll happily take people along in a dungeon regardless of level, they just have to listen. People who don’t know what they’re doing and refuse to listen, these are people that I can’t stand and most of them are 80s. Just because you’re 80 doesn’t mean you know best, take advice from people who know and you will become a better player!

Level 80’s and Lower leveled players have different goals when clearing a dungeon like AC exp.

Level 80: wants to clear the dungeon as quickly and as pain-free as possible. There is a significant difference in damage/survival that a scaled down 80 player has vs a lower leveled player going into a dungeon at the min/near min level.

Low level: wants to get the massive exp from completing the dungeon. Lets be real, this is the main reason people take low leveled chars into repeatable dungeons. Tokens are nice, but they will most likely be saved up for when the person can use them for lvl 80 exotics.

No offense, but when i run AC exp, i generally want to get it done asap. I’m not interested in power leveling you. You may be an awesome level 35 that listens to instructions, and knows all the boss fights yada yada, but I can find a lvl 80 to fill that spot that will probably do twice your damage and make things run faster.

Reading through made me remember a particular AC Exp run. I responded to an invite and found out the leader was barely at AC level cap. He had a friend in the party that was moderately leveled at 60. The rest of the party was 2 80s myself included and an under 80.

At Spider Queen I realize it was gonna be a long run as we actually wiped. In particular I was busy rezzing the leader and his friend. After Spider Queen, the other level 80 aggroed Kholer. The leader then proceeded to kick everyone except me and his friend. The vote got confirmed by his friend of course. It was then I got a sickening feeling that I needed to carry the leader and his friend through AC. I would be kicked myself if I didn’t know my way around the dungeon well. But in the end, I politely left the party as it wasn’t something worth going through any more.

TL;DR – Elitism isn’t confined to level 80s.

If it’s a complete PUG, I will take any level since usually it will just be for that dungeon. When the group is 80% guildmates and we need 1 more, you MUST be level 80 for the simple fact that we don’t stop after AC, we go on to other dungeons immediately after and it eases the stress from finding another player for the next dungeon, at a low level you won’t be able to go in coe, cof, hotw, it’s just that simple.

Your going to have these kinds of people everywhere in life, including gaming. Me and my friends take anyone regardless of experience level. No ping equipment, not asking stupid questions and we kick people who start wanting equipment pinged and such.

Everyone has to start somewhere and it’s all about having fun and partying up with people regardless if the dungeon runs take 20 minutes or 2 hours.

I ran my first dungeon a couple days ago.
I ran it with my brother and 3 ~60s or so.
We ran the whole thing on a certain path and it didn’t seem hard.

Then I ran it again with 40-80. Just a couple 80s.
Wasn’t bad

Ran it more with low levels.
We never completely wiped more than once.

All of em took around ~35 minutes.

Then I joined a group of elitist. They kept getting people in and kicking them.
It took 35 minutes to form the group(was in the morning). Then we finished it in 24 minutes on a certain path.

Then I joined with a guild, me and another with 3 people in the same guild.
We wiped over and over. The levels were 60-80. The guild was saying I should use “freeze rain” with my staff that I do not use.

Anyways, I just join whatever group and it is fine. Usually, if the group is full of randoms, it is easier to complete regardless of their levels. Ran it plenty of times with ~40s. Joining a guild who thinks they’re awesome, it doesn’t seem that great. Then again, only ran it with 1 particular guild. Joining an elitist group can be faster, however, sometimes, it takes so long to form.

I remember during the Mad King event, the group of people looking just for 80s took over 10 minutes to form while my PuG went in and killed it before their group was formed.

They were arguing with the low levels saying how it is much faster. However, just running with random PuG of all levels, I ran and completed them more times than they did.

I’m not going anywhere,
Put me on your block list now, saves me the trouble <3

Nope, I’m here to stay.

I give my best to my party, and i expect my party members to give their best for me.

There is just too much difference between a lvl 80 vs. lvl30.

Just the traits alone could result in a heaven and hell of a difference.

But, thats just being me. Yes, I am a elitist.

Like what the others posted, just create your own group, and save yourself the trouble.

Xyne.9104:

Nope, I’m here to stay.

I give my best to my party, and i expect my party members to give their best for me.

There is just too much difference between a lvl 80 vs. lvl30.

Just the traits alone could result in a heaven and hell of a difference.

But, thats just being me. Yes, I am a elitist.

Like what the others posted, just create your own group, and save yourself the trouble.

You sir, are welcome in my teams, and if you want me for anything, you let me know.
A gentleman here folks, a gentleman. He gives it his all, and so should you.

Kindeller.3072:

Not gonna lie and dont take this as braging but more simply events and things that i’ve seen. There are level 30’s and 40’s out there who are better and more use in a dungeon than several 80’s around simply because they know the class and skills they use inside out. Down to the combos and where to be. Level and 100 extra points in a certain attribute mean less to me than knowledge of the class and role of the build.

As a bottom line, if you play like a kitten you don’t deserve to be there… level 80 or not.

Oh, goodness. This and more of this. I noticed a trend in this thread where people were equating level 80 = good player, level < 80 =/ not good player. Wait, what? No, this is unequivocally untrue. I’ll take somebody on a level 35 toon who I know rocks — whether they’ve done the friggin’ dungeon or not — over some level 80 who doesn’t get the concept of teamwork.

Every.
Single.
Time.

And my Guild full-well knows that if I’m trying to get a level or two squeezed out of my level 40 ele, I’m still almost always going to be the better option than some random 80 PUP. Because I get playing in a team, cooperation, support, dungeon layout, where to run, when to fight, etc. etc. etc. That accounts for more than stats. Point is, this idea that just because somebody can get to level 80, that makes them a good player, is just as silly as an idea that just because someone can breed, they’ll be a good parent.

Nope. There are so many more tangibles and intangibles to it than just your ability to accumulate experience points.

Your title says a lot of things, you are not a so considerate and well thought player anyway.

How does someone choosing who to play with have anything to do with how you want to play? Someone doing the dungeon for the first run probably shouldn’t go with a group that wants to do a speed clear. Just to point out, OP you are not doing anything different than your so called elitists saying all noobs should be allowed to play the game.