Guild Wars 2

How do people learn fractals/raids when then the learning curve is life or death?

I’m trying to get into fractals and raids, but when each person has a specific person role to play and a single person isn’t doing their part (aka me) … the team fails. I feel intimidated to get into that part of the game because I don’t know what to do.

I’m also finding that in certain cases these are becoming a cookie-cutter approach; your team has to use a Mesmer, Druid, two warriors, and a Guardian or it will fail. There doesn’t seem to be room for the random necro or elementalist.

Every bit of information concerning dungeon or fractal mechanics is important. This actually determines who is able to perform on a high level without many issues.

When you and the rest of the party are at this high level, many group setups will work out one way or the other. The general consensus is that Mesmer/ Druid/ PS/ 2 Eles is THE META group build which gives the most efficient clear times/ results.

I`ve seen random groups at 100 CM in which a bad dps ele ragequitted at the second boss. We got a Viper Necro next and won in the first try. Reason why: the Ele died a lot or didnt know the mechanics by heart. And the Necro actually did.

If you want to get better at fractals and want to know everything about the encounters and mechanics I recommend you to watch Deroirs youtube channel:

Just a really tiny % of the tips he provides is outdated but its still extremely nice for beginners.

Thanks, I’ll check them out today.
Any help is appreciated.

Game of Bones.8975:

How do people learn fractals/raids when then the learning curve is life or death?

That’s how I learned fractals: trial & error. If things got really tough, I’d look up tips on the wiki and GW2 Dungeons. The Video guide is also really good.

Having a static group of players helps a lot, as does having people who understand their prof really well.

Raids are a very different kettle of fish. If you are having trouble with fractals, I’d put off working on raids for now. Anyone who can raid successfully is unlikely to have a lot of problems with high-level fractals, however many who do fine in T4 fracts have trouble in raids.

Game of Bones.8975:

I’m trying to get into fractals and raids, but when each person has a specific person role to play and a single person isn’t doing their part (aka me) … the team fails. I feel intimidated to get into that part of the game because I don’t know what to do.

In fractals, understanding your prof and the mechanics are the only important considerations. Although you can setup a team with each person having a distinct role, it’s not necessary.

Even in raids, it’s not necessary; it’s just easier for those starting out.

Game of Bones.8975:

I’m also finding that in certain cases these are becoming a cookie-cutter approach; your team has to use a Mesmer, Druid, two warriors, and a Guardian or it will fail. There doesn’t seem to be room for the random necro or elementalist.

For fractals, a good team of two can carry the other three. For inexperienced teams, I can’t think of any situation in which I would prefer a cookie-cutter approach over having four people who know their profs — I can teach people the mechanics; I can’t help if people have no idea on how to use crowd control skills or when to make use of active defenses. (If they have some idea, I can help them get better at it.)

In short, if you’re just starting out:

• Start with fractals
• Try to find a static group and try/fail/improve together.
• If you can’t find five, even three can work well — use LFG to find the other two (taking care to mention that you’re an inexperienced, self-teaching group).
• If you’re alone, start your own groups and always say that it’s a learning run. Type it in the LFG and before you press ‘yes’ to enter the fractal, just to make sure everyone’s on board.
• If you get stuck (or want less trial & error) make use of guides.

Good luck!

Fractals start very eazy on lower levels do them one by one to learn they
Raids:
mechanics > CC > ress > rotation.
ive been puggin raids and i rarely see pugs failing dps, bu they do fail the eaziest mechanics, like green cricles in vg, because they worry to much with dps meters and kitten. get the mechanics first then improve on the dps.
See ya muh kittah.

Search for Deroir’s channel on youtube the guy has an excellent series of guides for each frcatals out as of today.

learning to play on a razor’s edge is how some people, improve.

T1s are pretty forgiving honestly. You can just jump right in, say you’re new, invite advice, ask questions. T1 is the right place for you to be. You don’t even need AR before 20.

There are always impatient people, snobs, and jerks everywhere you go, but you can’t have anything more than a neutral interaction with those types even if you know everything and perform perfectly, so don’t worry about them. Reasonable people will understand T1 is for learning.

I can’t think of many places in the fractals where one person failing mechanics causes the group to fail. Subject 6 is a mob that comes to mind (probably because I just had an incredibly bad group in there), but not many more. Watching videos is a good way to get a basic grasp of the mechanics, and I’d also strongly recommend doing a bit of research into your class’ raid/fractal builds. There are too many people around who have no clue about their class and do abysmal damage.

With regard to class choice, at least for fractals just play what you like. Having the right player is much, much more important than having the “right” class.

Siax ehh ensolyss can make it really hard of one is stomped. Thb there arent any dps checks infractals or group mechanics that would make losing someone a big hit to the group. Ehh the downside of making instanced content in a casual game ;-;

Just tell the group that you are new to fractals, and don’t try to wing it. This weekend, I had a pug member who carried one of the rocks in Molten Furnace to the steam curtain instead of putting it on the steam hole in the cave. Took us some time to figure out what happened to the rock. If I know that people new to a fractal are in the group, I give explanations without being asked specifically. Mostly people cannot ask specific questions because they don’t know the encounter. When people died at the shock waves (T2 btw), I told them to jump over them. That was enough to make it work the next time.

Also, know your class. I asked the guardian to equip his reflects because people were also dying at the fireballs, but he never used a single shield. He probably didn’t know what to do, and I never played Guardian, so I don’t know the names of those skills (Sanctuary and Wall of Reflection?). I do know that a guardian dying because of projectiles is a bad guardian though.

Just don’t try to get carried. That works if you have at least two people in the team who can carry. In T1 and T2, chances are that 4 people try to get carried, or even everybody in the party. Be honest about your experience and most people will be happy to explain, even if it costs a few minutes. It’s still faster than getting wiped several times because people try to wing it.

Game of Bones.8975:

How do people learn fractals/raids when then the learning curve is life or death?

Well as mentioned by others, low level fractals are not as life and death as some make them out to be. Most veteran fractal players went in blind and had to figure all the stuff out on their own. This has become a lot easier since there is guides and tips for every fractal out there (and many frustrating and buggy encounters were redesigned and/or fixed).

I’d say up to fractal level 20 you could just wing it, maybe warn people you are inexperienced but most won’t care since they’ll be just as inexperienced most of the time.

Fractal level 21-40 can prbably be done without any guides (all fractals can be done without guides, I’m talking from a pure trial and error frustration perspective) if you are a decent player who notices mechanics and memorizes well. Otherwise I’d check some guides for fractals which trouble you.

50+ you are getting in an area where the amount of fractals run should provide you with a good knowledge foundation and it becomes more about improving gameplay.

75+ requires full ascended armor in general for the AR. Chances are very likely you’ll have the playerskill and knowledge to complete these fractals once you get this far.

Raids is a different matter, but there is sufficient guides and trial runs for new players to get started.

Game of Bones.8975:

I’m trying to get into fractals and raids, but when each person has a specific person role to play and a single person isn’t doing their part (aka me) … the team fails. I feel intimidated to get into that part of the game because I don’t know what to do.

No reason to be intimidated. The scaling is not to bad. See my recommendations for how to approachs different fractal level/tiers.

Game of Bones.8975:

I’m also finding that in certain cases these are becoming a cookie-cutter approach; your team has to use a Mesmer, Druid, two warriors, and a Guardian or it will fail. There doesn’t seem to be room for the random necro or elementalist.

There are team compositions that work better than others due to good synergy. This has improved a lot ever since vanilla fractals where you absolutely wanted a guardian in each group. Druid healer is probably the only constant which most people want to take along now, not because it’s required, but because it allows people to make more mistakes (and gives a party wide damage buff).

Current meta parties usually look like this:
- druid healer
- warrior PS
- mesmer
- 2 dps

Cyninja.2954:

Game of Bones.8975:

How do people learn fractals/raids when then the learning curve is life or death?

Well as mentioned by others, low level fractals are not as life and death as some make them out to be. Most veteran fractal players went in blind and had to figure all the stuff out on their own. This has become a lot easier since there is guides and tips for every fractal out there (and many frustrating and buggy encounters were redesigned and/or fixed).

I’d say up to fractal level 20 you could just wing it, maybe warn people you are inexperienced but most won’t care since they’ll be just as inexperienced most of the time.

Fractal level 21-40 can prbably be done without any guides (all fractals can be done without guides, I’m talking from a pure trial and error frustration perspective) if you are a decent player who notices mechanics and memorizes well. Otherwise I’d check some guides for fractals which trouble you.

50+ you are getting in an area where the amount of fractals run should provide you with a good knowledge foundation and it becomes more about improving gameplay.

75+ requires full ascended armor in general for the AR. Chances are very likely you’ll have the playerskill and knowledge to complete these fractals once you get this far.

Raids is a different matter, but there is sufficient guides and trial runs for new players to get started.

Game of Bones.8975:

I’m trying to get into fractals and raids, but when each person has a specific person role to play and a single person isn’t doing their part (aka me) … the team fails. I feel intimidated to get into that part of the game because I don’t know what to do.

No reason to be intimidated. The scaling is not to bad. See my recommendations for how to approachs different fractal level/tiers.

Game of Bones.8975:

I’m also finding that in certain cases these are becoming a cookie-cutter approach; your team has to use a Mesmer, Druid, two warriors, and a Guardian or it will fail. There doesn’t seem to be room for the random necro or elementalist.

There are team compositions that work better than others due to good synergy. This has improved a lot ever since vanilla fractals where you absolutely wanted a guardian in each group. Druid healer is probably the only constant which most people want to take along now, not because it’s required, but because it allows people to make more mistakes (and gives a party wide damage buff).

Current meta parties usually look like this:
- druid healer
- warrior PS
- mesmer
- 2 dps

why would ya need a healer? better just take c druid. healer druids are basically leechers in fractals.

Draco.9480:

why would ya need a healer? better just take c druid. healer druids are basically leechers in fractals.

They do make a run much more relaxed. They are basically QoL assets, not “needed” ones. I always welcome a good druid who can out-heal Old Tom and the poison so you don’t have to spend time on activating the fan. I also stay close to them at Mai Trin’s or Molten Furnace’s bombardments. Even my thief can face-tank in fractals with a good druid.

Yeah you don’t need a healer I always make a LFG with PS/Chrono/Druid/2xTempest, because pug, even with dps stats that comp can easily heal itself / save the PS’ life if needed x)

Also everyone running pots and being min/maxed is essential. If you didn’t use pots I would kick you because the speed at which you clear the fractal far outweighs the cost of the pots and my time is money.

Faaris.8013:

Draco.9480:

why would ya need a healer? better just take c druid. healer druids are basically leechers in fractals.

They do make a run much more relaxed. They are basically QoL assets, not “needed” ones. I always welcome a good druid who can out-heal Old Tom and the poison so you don’t have to spend time on activating the fan. I also stay close to them at Mai Trin’s or Molten Furnace’s bombardments. Even my thief can face-tank in fractals with a good druid.

i don’t even use the fan, and i don’t use a healer in the group. what’s the point in boring safe ways? just dps, kill and move on. why waste potential dps??? out healing and not doing damage is considered leech.

Draco.9480:

just dps, kill and move on. why waste potential dps???

That works for a few percent of the T4 fractal player base. For the average pug, a halfway competent healer is super valuable.

CptAurellian.9537:

Draco.9480:

just dps, kill and move on. why waste potential dps???

That works for a few percent of the T4 fractal player base. For the average pug, a halfway competent healer is super valuable.

Yeah its the whole pug vs organised.

That’s why I run LFG with PS/Chrono/Druid/2xTempest.

Four classes doing small heals is more than enough to get the PS back in the fight stacking might if he tanks a bunch of conditions.

CptAurellian.9537:

Draco.9480:

just dps, kill and move on. why waste potential dps???

That works for a few percent of the T4 fractal player base. For the average pug, a halfway competent healer is super valuable.

it’s not valuable at all. feels more like a leecher. people should understand simple pve fractal mechanics and not feed and facetank crap and synergize their rotation with the encounter and use builds that actually work against the encounter and not meta all the time. how druid will help at swamp or aquatic?

And now please wake up and realise that the vast majority of the playerbase won’t “git gud” in the way you demand.

CptAurellian.9537:

And now please wake up and realise that the vast majority of the playerbase won’t “git gud” in the way you demand.

This.

Also I mentioned that heal druid gets taken along for convenience, not necessity.

It holds true for a big part of the pug fractal community.

You now have 2 avenues of approach Draco:

a.) tell every one to “get good” and not play with them
b.) accept that people will take the path of least effort/resistance and realise that’s why suboptimal builds speed wise are used.

Game of Bones.8975:

How do people learn fractals/raids when then the learning curve is life or death?

I’m trying to get into fractals and raids, but when each person has a specific person role to play and a single person isn’t doing their part (aka me) … the team fails. I feel intimidated to get into that part of the game because I don’t know what to do.

I’m also finding that in certain cases these are becoming a cookie-cutter approach; your team has to use a Mesmer, Druid, two warriors, and a Guardian or it will fail. There doesn’t seem to be room for the random necro or elementalist.

There are two ways to learn.

Play and die a lot or just watch other people play.

Either way, many of us die very often until we can finish task with muscle memory. You can only learn muscle memory with real time practice. Either way, all pve enemies are puzzles. Once you learn them, many of them become boring (Please delete Mai Trin).

I would admit that it is easier to learn when the content is barely released. Less elitist dictating on the type of build you are required to use.

Draco.9480:

CptAurellian.9537:

Draco.9480:

just dps, kill and move on. why waste potential dps???

That works for a few percent of the T4 fractal player base. For the average pug, a halfway competent healer is super valuable.

it’s not valuable at all. feels more like a leecher. people should understand simple pve fractal mechanics and not feed and facetank crap and synergize their rotation with the encounter and use builds that actually work against the encounter and not meta all the time. how druid will help at swamp or aquatic?

Draco not everyone is used to salt premades or other premade groups. Healers make mistakes carry little punishment. They always had so they always carry value now if you and your group are completely capable of doing content without it thats good on you but not everyone does.

zealex.9410:

Draco not everyone is used to salt premades or other premade groups. Healers make mistakes carry little punishment. They always had so they always carry value now if you and your group are completely capable of doing content without it thats good on you but not everyone does.

Draco just soloes everything, and if that’s too easy, he switches out his keyboard’s binding, to get more of a challenge out of it.

Healers are also valuable for groups that can do the content without them. Not everything needs to be a speed run or perfectly meta. If I have to dodge less or heal myself less, that’s value for me. And even when we smash Old Tom without refreshing the fan, we always start it at the beginning. Could we skip that? Sure, but it doesn’t matter if the whole fractal takes 20 seconds longer that way. I’m not in a race or fleeing from something that I have to hurry that much, I’m playing a game.