Guild Wars 2

With a new anti-meta thread appearing every week or so, it would suggest “play how you want” parties have become a rare breed among the parties being formed. In addition, with the number of metadungeoneers on this board it paints a picture where the dungeon pugging scene is currently, “you must stack, you must wear full zerker, you must skip, you’re on thin ice if you’re not a heavy, you have 10 minutes to complete this run” groups have become the general expectation of the dungeon community, and that “play how you want” parties have been all but choked out.

So I’m curious, what would you say is the current ratio of parties that let players play how they wish, to parties that demand players to conform to the meta?

I have no real response, other than, the folks in this board are not asking for heavies. They want the highest DPS, warriors and guardians are not that. So for the sake of argument I suggest editing that bit out,

Dual.8953:

With a new anti-meta thread appearing every week or so, it would suggest “play how you want” parties have become a rare breed among the parties being formed. In addition, with the number of metadungeoneers on this board it paints a picture where the dungeon pugging scene is currently, “you must stack, you must wear full zerker, you must skip, you’re on thin ice if you’re not a heavy, you have 10 minutes to complete this run” groups have become the general expectation of the dungeon community, and that “play how you want” parties have been all but choked out.

If only. It’d be a dream come true

As a side note, “you’re on thin ice if you’re not a heavy?” Eh, what? 2x Eles, 2x Thieves, 1x War is how I run most things these days. Thief + Sundering Strikes + Improvisation + Multiple Teleports + FGS = Win. We occasionally replace 1x Thief with a Guard, but only for a few dungeons.

For every meta runner out there there’s probably 5 or more carebearbows or HEALERS-in-heavy-armor out there.

I pulled those numbers out of my lower back hole, so take it with a grain of salt.

Lilith Ajit.6173:

I have no real response, other than, the folks in this board are not asking for heavies. They want the highest DPS, warriors and guardians are not that.

I mean in general. When you go on lfg or join some random party for w/e reason, how likely are you to be expected to adhere to some meta standard?

You can play anyway you want. You just can’t make people party with you.

I think some of the problem is really a game design issue. Many of the things people are complaining aren’t there in the new scarlet dungeon. So that’s obviously something Anet can do better.

Honestly? I am never held to any meta standard when I pug (as an elementalist, too). Nobody ever gear checks me, no one asks for anything from me. I join a lot of pug groups too, because while I believe highly in the meta, I am not skilled enough to run meta. I have never ever ever been kicked for my class, my gear, my anything.

I have been kicked for emoting lewdly at another character though! but hey! I RP.

Lindbur.2537:

For every meta runner out there there’s probably 5 or more carebearbows or HEALERS-in-heavy-armor out there.

I pulled those numbers out of my lower back hole, so take it with a grain of salt.

Exactly. As long as you are lvl80, it’s not that difficult to find a group.

I have much more problem finding a a group on my low level. But still manage to do some dungeon here and there.

Well of course you’ll “be expected to adhere to some meta standard.” I’m happy to report that’s become a lot more common these days. Unfortunately, there is disagreement about what that meta standard is. A lot of ppl think the standard is still 4x wars/guard + 1x mes, but c’mon, that’s so 2013. Ele’s and Thieves are where it’s at these days!

Maybe I don’t quite follow this so well because of how I perceived dungeons until I got good enough at them. I’ve always thought of them as a test if you are prepared (as in following metas and looking up guides) you will do well, if you wander in expecting an easy reward you’re going to have a bad time. To me that’s completely fair, dungeons were supposed to be hard.

The trouble is that the test hasn’t changed much since launch and now a large portion of the players know what’s going to happen and there’s no real excuse for the incoming new players to not take that advice from the experienced ones, or go look up guides and youtube vids. So you have friction. If you want to recreate some sort of all new dungeon experience then one would need to find 4 other players who haven’t ran dungeons before or at least not ran the path you are about to do.

Sure you can play how you want, or you can get some quick tokens and gold. But then again getting quick tokens and gold is how some people want to play.

If the majority of the players want to run dungeons successfully for the rewards then that’s just how it is. The minority will just have to work harder to find people to play with. I’m in the minority in that I do not like how stale the end game is and don’t really care for LW, but I don’t expect people who like LW to change their point of view to suit me.

so meta
very definition
much interesting

Dual.8953:

With a new anti-meta thread appearing every week or so, it would suggest “play how you want” parties have become a rare breed among the parties being formed. In addition, with the number of metadungeoneers on this board it paints a picture where the dungeon pugging scene is currently, “you must stack, you must wear full zerker, you must skip, you’re on thin ice if you’re not a heavy, you have 10 minutes to complete this run” groups have become the general expectation of the dungeon community, and that “play how you want” parties have been all but choked out.

So I’m curious, what would you say is the current ratio of parties that let players play how they wish, to parties that demand players to conform to the meta?

First off, zerker isn’t even necessarily meta. I very rarely see lfg’s for meta runs. It’s surprising how much better full meta runs are as opposed to zerker whatever runs. I still see less zerker lfg’s than I do ‘whatever’ lfg’s. I’ve only seen 2 meta runs on the lfg, I joined them both and while they’re not as good as an organized meta, they are far and away better than zerker runs – which in turn are far and away better than play how you want runs.

In pve in general, play how you want builds are far more prevalent than meta builds. I’ve been in 2 pvx guilds with over 300 people. In both guilds the number of meta builds were in the single digits, zerker is looked down upon even for pve in some of these guilds.

I imagine there are more zerkers in dungeons than in regular pve because after doing these dungeons numerous times many people will want to improve their performance. Good performance = faster = more gold. So naturally they upgrade their build to something more suited to the content. But in all, there are more play how you want lfg’s than there are meta or zerker lfg’s.

Honestly I haven’t been in anything besides berserker gear before. I knew coming into this game what kind of combat I wanted to partake in and what the word “berserker” meant. I didn’t know about whether or not there’d be class roles and crap like on WoW or whatever, but I know that I’m not the kind of person that likes to be a supportive role when playing games.

It just so happened to be that I chose the right profession for myself (warrior) and that well, hey… berserker seems to be the most efficient type of gear to wear for general combat on here. Mitigating incoming damage with attributes always seems like something that would hinder my performance or ability to improve and I would much rather prefer to take advantage of evasions, dodge rolls and game engine mechanics to do better in combat.

That’s just me; I know that people these days are obsessed with getting everything done within x amount of time because that’s unfortunately the way the game was designed. The reason it’s such a huge deal to people whether or not you’re adhering to their standards is because we’re all limited to one daily reward for completion of something. For people that wish to get as much things done as possible, anybody that doesn’t conform to their ways is a thorn in their side.

“Play how you want” teams would only have a chance of thriving if it didn’t matter how fast something were to get done. It’s all about time, which is unfortunately NOT an easy thing to fix.

I wish the majority of posts were Meta or even just zerker. The truth however, is most are play how you want, and the quality of builds in those parties are apparent.

Create your own lfg and be very clear in what you want. But then again chances the pugs read the lfg is almost 0. So probably best if you stick to singel player games but then again this is just my perspective

Zelyhn.8069:

so meta
very definition
much interesting

Learn to doge man

GW2 is an MMO and most content is geared around group play so there really isn’t a “play how you want” since you are playing with other people and it is expected that you contribute in a significant way. Healing 10% when your party takes 80% damage per hit isn’t contributing nor are you contributing if you play condi necro when there are like 2 condis on your team since you will hit the cap. Simply put the biggest complaint about dungeons, wvw, and pvp solo queue are pugs who don’t listen, have odd builds, or they don’t contribute much to the success of the team (rallying people in WvW, 3 people on one point in pvp as examples).

People are barking up the wrong tree with this “play how you want” mentality. It should always be that everyone should be a team player even if that means you stack up at the corner 4 of your other teammates want you to or swapping professions and/or builds when you don’t really want to. It is a team game.

Instead of blaming the so called “meta”, a subset of the dungeon community as elitist, or blaming the zerk/speed runs you see from like rT or DnT everyone should focus their attention on ArenaNet and how dungeons for the most part have not changed for over a year (outside of TA Aetherblade, some Fractal changes, and AC rework).

So stop pitting zerk players versus non zerk and stack versus non stack. It should all of these groups coming together and demand ArenaNet to make better dungeon content. Bring viability to different play styles. Make solo instance content kinda like queen gauntlet so people can test their skills and since people aren’t in a group they can build/play however they want since they don’t affect other people. Make guild/mass raid type content like Wurm instead of the current system where it is hard to organize since you have to use OF and hope you don’t get a lot of randoms.

Yet another complaint thread, just worded differently so it isn’t deleted.

Does anyone actually play the way they don’t want?

J Eberle.9312:

Yet another complaint thread, just worded differently so it isn’t deleted.

Honestly, I was looking for X:Y numerical ratios with no real intent to argue, and instead got a load of “grass is greener” posts. Probably should find some statistical site or do some leg work and gather some samples myself.

@Zelyhn: I do know a few guildies that love thier Rangers to death, but begrudgingly shelve them when doing dungeons so you can tell me if they’re playing how they want.

Turn on Funny Lilith mode

Grab my popcorn.

On a sidenote, re-read the OP with a magnifying glass to see his request of X:Y number.

It’s atse!

grabs popcorn

the dungeon pugging scene is currently, “you must stack, you must wear full zerker, you must skip, you’re on thin ice if you’re not a heavy, you have 10 minutes to complete this run” groups

No. Just no, this is absolutely false. As people constantly point out, lfg posts that request “zerker only” fill more slowly then non-specific posts. In fact, non-specific posts usually fill in a mater of seconds unless its 4am or for SEp2.

With a new anti-meta thread appearing every week or so, it would suggest “play how you want” parties have become a rare breed among the parties being formed.

This suggests exactly the opposite. It tells me that there are many, many people who are looking for a more casual experience, but inexplicably are offended by the mere existence of lfg posts which may exclude their un-optimized build.

No one here is going to spend hours logging lfg posts for your edification – you can do that yourself. What I can say is I pug a zealots gear ele almost every night for the lolz, and I have never had to post for any of the “on farm” dungeon paths – 99% of the time it takes less then a minute for a non-specific post to pop up. I’ve never had any complaints. Most people expect you to stack for trash rather then run around like a headless chicken, but you’d be surprised how many groups wont stack for even the first alpha fight.

No one here is going to spend hours logging lfg posts for your edification – you can do that yourself.

This.

Also, we’re all pretty unreliable narrators.
If stacking/skipping/exploiting drives you up the wall or unoptimized play drives you nuts, that’s what sticks out in your memory. So people on both sides of the fence tend to think they’re surrounded.

Play how you want, but only if you skip, stack and zerk.

Dual.8953:

@Zelyhn: I do know a few guildies that love thier Rangers to death, but begrudgingly shelve them when doing dungeons so you can tell me if they’re playing how they want.

So you mean that they choose not to play ranger because they have a higher priority goal of being able to run dungeons with your guild. Running dungeons is what they want more than anything.

They could play ranger if they wanted but they decided not to do so.

It sounds like in the end they get what they want!

Zelyhn.8069:

Does anyone actually play the way they don’t want?

I am never able to play how I want. I want to do dungeons in town clothes while RP walking.

@Atse: I have a warrior, and she has berserker gear, but it might make you feel disturbed to know I think the class is garbage and I hate playing something so simple.

I play my ele better, I think, than most pugs play their warriors. She has her berserker gear and is nearly meta! but as a fresh air build, and she is amazing. My warrior is…. boring.

Actually having to try is more fun to me. I get enough mindlessness on the forums, why play like that?

Zelyhn.8069:

Dual.8953:

@Zelyhn: I do know a few guildies that love thier Rangers to death, but begrudgingly shelve them when doing dungeons so you can tell me if they’re playing how they want.

So you mean that they choose not to play ranger because they have a higher priority goal of being able to run dungeons with your guild. Running dungeons is what they want more than anything.

They could play ranger if they wanted but they decided not to do so.

It sounds like in the end they get what they want!

Zelyhn is right. I want to play necro. But I cant enjoy being useless so I dont play it. I end up playing a more usefull class which I can enjoy because im actually contributing to the group and still playing the content I like. In an ideal game Id be able to play necro and feel useful and not feel like a leech everytime I play the class. But thats not going to happen until anet does something about pve or necro.