Guild Wars 2

Hey, I’ve quit around 10 months ago because I rage quitted. I was playing a Thief (I think) and I couldn’t get into any raid because elementalists were dealing 25% more DPS than anyone and everyone wanted only elementalists as DPS. I’ve raided my soul out in WoW Legion and since I’m done with their system (I swear that half the time I spent in WoW was praising gw2 on their guild system) I would like to return here. However I would like to play what I enjoy and what I’m good at. So, is elementalist still >>>> every other DPS? Also, in Legion I played a tank, maybe I could tank here as well since I’m very good at it. I remember waiting hours for tanks (Mesmer ones – Chornomancers??) for raiding because they had some skill speed buff. Are they still really sought after? Any insight is welcome. Thank you for reading this

Raizen.7981:

Hey, I’ve quit around 10 months ago because I rage quitted. I was playing a Thief (I think) and I couldn’t get into any raid because elementalists were dealing 25% more DPS than anyone and everyone wanted only elementalists as DPS. I’ve raided my soul out in WoW Legion and since I’m done with their system (I swear that half the time I spent in WoW was praising gw2 on their guild system) I would like to return here. However I would like to play what I enjoy and what I’m good at. So, is elementalist still >>>> every other DPS? Also, in Legion I played a tank, maybe I could tank here as well since I’m very good at it. I remember waiting hours for tanks (Mesmer ones – Chornomancers??) for raiding because they had some skill speed buff. Are they still really sought after? Any insight is welcome. Thank you for reading this

MAJOR EDIT: I can not hold a schedule anymore (part of why I quit WoW mythic raiding) so every raid I will do in GW2 will be PUGGED, which is why I’m so concerned about classes that get into raids pretty quick

First bit of advice. Never be a one-trick when it comes to raiding, especially in a pug setting.

Regarding Thief vs Ele…. Thief can compete with them as far as dps goes. It just lacks the same utility.

As far as picking up mesmer to tank, see first point. Even if Thief is your 2nd assuming you decided to walk the tank road, get a backup ready because mesmer is limited slotwise in raids.

TexZero.7910:

First bit of advice. Never be a one-trick when it comes to raiding, especially in a pug setting.

Regarding Thief vs Ele…. Thief can compete with them as far as dps goes. It just lacks the same utility.

As far as picking up mesmer to tank, see first point. Even if Thief is your 2nd assuming you decided to walk the tank road, get a backup ready because mesmer is limited slotwise in raids.

I wasn’t, I was mostly raiding on my 2h warrior dude (some support guy who was stacking some 25 thing damage buff?) but I wanted to raid on thief and literally nobody wanted me. For me the problem isn’t that I can’t get in raids, it is that I can’t get in raids with classes I want to. So I guess it’s still the same? Ele kittens on all other DPS?

Raizen.7981:

TexZero.7910:

First bit of advice. Never be a one-trick when it comes to raiding, especially in a pug setting.

Regarding Thief vs Ele…. Thief can compete with them as far as dps goes. It just lacks the same utility.

As far as picking up mesmer to tank, see first point. Even if Thief is your 2nd assuming you decided to walk the tank road, get a backup ready because mesmer is limited slotwise in raids.

I wasn’t, I was mostly raiding on my 2h warrior dude (some support guy who was stacking some 25 thing damage buff?) but I wanted to raid on thief and literally nobody wanted me. For me the problem isn’t that I can’t get in raids, it is that I can’t get in raids with classes I want to. So I guess it’s still the same? Ele kittens on all other DPS?

no they dont eles are still really strong on big hitbox but their power diff is much smaller ppl now mostly ask for dps without specifying what that dps is so most classes are welcome (well unless you plan on raiding with rev)

On large hitbox, ele is still king.

But on small hitbox, ele hits 30k, staff thief hits 32k, and condi thief hits 33k. All of this from qt’s benchmarks (http://qtfy.eu/benchmarks/).

So ele isn’t really who you are competing with, condi ranger is (33k). Technically condi engi is top dog on small hit box (35k), but as always, you rarely see them in pugs.

important note: don’t convert your thief to condi thief just because of the numbers above. Condi thief only works well in certain encounters, of course the same could be said of power thief imo.

The other issue to note is that condi ranger and ele can do more damage at range, while power thief requires melee range.

A lot of people use dps meters now. So a lot of groups (well at least mine), don’t care so much about classes, but we just kick players who (literally sometimes) have no idea what they are doing. If you join a group and your only a bit below a condi ranger or ele, probably no problems. If you slip below the condi ps damage, then you might get some complaints. Although not much hopefully, as condi ps has been buffed a notable amount. If your dps slips into chrono/druid territory, expect a kick.

thrag.9740:

On large hitbox, ele is still king.

But on small hitbox, ele hits 30k, staff thief hits 32k, and condi thief hits 33k. All of this from qt’s benchmarks (http://qtfy.eu/benchmarks/).

So ele isn’t really who you are competing with, condi ranger is (33k). Technically condi engi is top dog on small hit box (35k), but as always, you rarely see them in pugs.

important note: don’t convert your thief to condi thief just because of the numbers above. Condi thief only works well in certain encounters, of course the same could be said of power thief imo.

The other issue to note is that condi ranger and ele can do more damage at range, while power thief requires melee range.

A lot of people use dps meters now. So a lot of groups (well at least mine), don’t care so much about classes, but we just kick players who (literally sometimes) have no idea what they are doing. If you join a group and your only a bit below a condi ranger or ele, probably no problems. If you slip below the condi ps damage, then you might get some complaints. Although not much hopefully, as condi ps has been buffed a notable amount. If your dps slips into chrono/druid territory, expect a kick.

This sounds good. Can you recommend me the dps meter youre using?

I use two dps meters. I use arc dps and I also use bgdm. Bgdm only allows you to see other players dps if they are also running it, but it is 100% accurate. Arc can tell you everyones dps but it can have inaccuracies (less than 10%). Both meters tell you your own dps.

Understand that dps in real scenarios is different from golem dps. The best way to see how your doing, is to compare yourself to others playing the same roles.

Honestly, reading your post I think you should start with getting an overview of how the game is setup and what classes in the raid meta bring what to the table.

Reading comments like: 2hand warrior dude, 25 thing damage buff, etc. does not fill me with a lot of convidence you even understand endgame meta. Elementalist was never the only contender for damage spots even before they got nerfed and other classes buffed.

That being said, tanking is no where near the same here at it is in WoW (I should know, I tanked in WoW too and also during Legion) and it’s also not required for every boss due to mechanical differences. If you want to run with pug groups, read up on what current desired meta builds are and figure out what you might enjoy, then try to get 2 classes for flexibility raid ready.

Arc dps and bgdm are the 2 main damage meters run and while I would recommend you get used to at least one of both for practicing your rotation on golems, make sure to at least read up on raid bosses. Nothing get’s you kicked faster than standing somewhere with no clue getting the raid wiped.

In all reality, no matter what people try to justify here on the forums, the issues that existed 10 months ago still exist today – probably to an even greater degree with most LFG groups expecting people to understand everything prior to joining.

Non meta groups are rare – and often strongly discouraged by the raiding community. Meters have given pugmanders a new way to justify kicking people. LI requirements are still a thing , but have been supplanted by minature or title requirements by many groups.

So, again, if you had issues with the raiding scene 10 months ago, I seriously doubt you will find it engaging and less frustrating today.

Blaeys.3102:

In all reality, no matter what people try to justify here on the forums, the issues that existed 10 months ago still exist today – probably to an even greater degree with most LFG groups expecting people to understand everything prior to joining.

Non meta groups are rare – and often strongly discouraged by the raiding community. Meters have given pugmanders a new way to justify kicking people. LI requirements are still a thing , but have been supplanted by minature or title requirements by many groups.

So, again, if you had issues with the raiding scene 10 months ago, I seriously doubt you will find it engaging and less frustrating today.

Don’t listen to this guy he doesn’t actually raid. Thief is top dps so long as you are willing to change your build as needed between power and condi.

Blaeys.3102:

In all reality, no matter what people try to justify here on the forums, the issues that existed 10 months ago still exist today – probably to an even greater degree with most LFG groups expecting people to understand everything prior to joining.

Non meta groups are rare – and often strongly discouraged by the raiding community. Meters have given pugmanders a new way to justify kicking people. LI requirements are still a thing , but have been supplanted by minature or title requirements by many groups.

So, again, if you had issues with the raiding scene 10 months ago, I seriously doubt you will find it engaging and less frustrating today.

if it wasnt for the dps metter the only dps pugs would take would be eles so ye… and also li requirements are fine every mmo has requirements for raiding i dont see why its bad with gw2 esp since gear is a non factor and skill is what matters

Blaeys.3102:

In all reality, no matter what people try to justify here on the forums, the issues that existed 10 months ago still exist today – probably to an even greater degree with most LFG groups expecting people to understand everything prior to joining.

Non meta groups are rare – and often strongly discouraged by the raiding community. Meters have given pugmanders a new way to justify kicking people. LI requirements are still a thing , but have been supplanted by minature or title requirements by many groups.

So, again, if you had issues with the raiding scene 10 months ago, I seriously doubt you will find it engaging and less frustrating today.

Seriously Blaeys, this post has revealed that you’re not raiding after all although telling so in the past.
The usage of dps metres has led to a better situation in pugs than before and you rarely see players being kicked due to low dps.
There are enough training & low LI runs and I haven’t seen serious critical threads on reddit for a long time, on the contrary, excited and thankful threads of players that were able to get their first kills.
I also don’t see any non meta group being discouraged by the raiding community because meta players just don’t join these if they don’t feel comfortable. On the other hand I see many experienced ppl joining training runs – many of my guild too – and helping others out. The raiding community is so much better than you are trying to show here.

Now please do not take this as me making fun of you or berating you but if you came to my training run saying things like “some skill speed buff” and “some 25 thing damage buff” I would have to ask you to leave after giving you a tonne of resources to read through.

If you do not know what might and quickness is you may want to go read through at least the wiki articles on boons, this is very general game knowledge that everybody should know. Boons are one of the most important things in a raid, you need to know what they are, where they come from and which classes are responsible for which ones generally speaking.

Really you are going to find it harder to successfully pug while not knowing extremely basic game mechanics than being a thief, most pugs are fine with thieves on most bosses.

NikeEU.7690:

Blaeys.3102:

In all reality, no matter what people try to justify here on the forums, the issues that existed 10 months ago still exist today – probably to an even greater degree with most LFG groups expecting people to understand everything prior to joining.

Non meta groups are rare – and often strongly discouraged by the raiding community. Meters have given pugmanders a new way to justify kicking people. LI requirements are still a thing , but have been supplanted by minature or title requirements by many groups.

So, again, if you had issues with the raiding scene 10 months ago, I seriously doubt you will find it engaging and less frustrating today.

Don’t listen to this guy he doesn’t actually raid. Thief is top dps so long as you are willing to change your build as needed between power and condi.

I raid every week.

And, regardless of where you fall on this, can you realistically with a straight face say anything has changed in the past 10 months other than a slight shift in the meta with the balance patch and the introduction of a few new bosses to fight?

Either way, it’s easy enough for someone to see for themselves. There is just too much noise on the forums to make an informed decision. A week with LFG or trying to raid with builds significantly off meta is enough to prove my point. If it is important enough to people, I strongly encourage them to give it a shot.

Solution is simple – get some gold get your commander and start your own raids as comm. Ain’t no one who’s gonna b!tch you’re not a chrono/druid/ps warr/whatever:>

Works like a charm. Just do your homework on raid encounters twice over so no one will suspect you of being a newbie

Blaeys.3102:

And, regardless of where you fall on this, can you realistically with a straight face say anything has changed in the past 10 months other than a slight shift in the meta with the balance patch and the introduction of a few new bosses to fight?

Actually, yes.

With things like Arc and BGDM squads have actual data to work with rather than just being anecdotal. Whether you use it in a static or pug situation you can hone in on what’s your weakest link.

In a static setting this is huge since you can coach/tutor the struggling player or even go as far as class swapping. In a pug setting? Well you can now confirm whether your pug is a carry or whether he’s a hidden gem.

LI’s and Titles are great and all, but there’s no telling how a person came across those things. Chart them up on a meter? If that guy is dishing out his portion of DPS and is meeting the encounter mechanics, well, I couldn’t care less if said person has only a single LI.

Though like everything else in the game I’m sure there’s plenty of people that take things to an inappropriate level. I mean, just last night I heard about a training group where the Squad Comm was yelling as her DPS members because they were just 1k behind her damage. And they were only hovering around 10k dps for that encounter.