Lvl 40 fractal farm meta toxicity
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That would inevitably lead to a new meta comp designed and tailored for speed and efficiency. Any kind of repeatable farm leads to this. It would genuinely be much more interesting at first but over time it would become just as repetitive as Frac40 is. Farm aint about fun or being casual. It’s about hardcore efficiency, otherwise u are better off playing silverwastes and HoT metas.
I never said it wouldn’t have a meta, I said probably a more interesting one, in particular I imagine stealth skipping would enter into the discussion. A skill which use to be important in gw2, which is now pretty much forgotten.
Also, there are plenty of casual farmers. Half the dungeon community pre hot were basically casual farmers. Half the f40 groups have relaxed group comps. I see necros, engis, and thieves in f40 groups all the time.
You say casual fractal farmers might as well run meta events, has it occurred to you that players actually have preferences? We get about 45 minutes of instanced pve content per day. More like 3-4 total hours on raid night (thats including fractals). Maybe players want to play content where their individual contribution is meaningful, while also working towards long term goals such as legendaries, etc.
Farm is by definition doing repetitive content for a hefty amount of gold. It’s not fun by any means, no1 likes to run the same thing 30-40 times over. The “casual” groups on 40 fractal usually just run 10-15 times at best and then stop. That’s mostly cause the bosses dont die fast and u cant use portals so they make a tedious activity even more tedious. The optimized groups can run up to 50 times earning overall 3-4 times the gold cause everything dies fast and it takes longer to get tired or bored. That’s were the farm is.
A farm is successful if u are making the most gold/hour that u can in your own capacity. Otherwise it is a waste of time and you should be doing something else, maybe something more fun. For people that wanna take it ez and relax SW RIBA is the most profiting farm atm. 40 fractal with a “relaxed” group just doesnt make enough gold to justify running it. Again it is all about efficiency.
40 fractal with a “relaxed” group just doesnt make enough gold to justify running it. Again it is all about efficiency.
No, that’s not true. Even a “relaxed” group farms more g/h in fractal 40 than in every other content around. RIBA is far away in numbers.
It’s one thing to not know anything about your class, the encounters and be a total beginner in this fractal but that doesn’t fit to a standard casual farm. With 5 players in at least appropriate damage gear bosses are melting anyways. Only a group of complete beginners would struggle and be total inefficient but those mentioned relaxed groups aren’t. Of course they don’t dupe the video scene, don’t use the meta comp or best in slot food but this is not necessary. And it’s not 3-4 times the gold difference, that’s too much of an exaggeration.
Took me 3 runs of the dungeon to get the bug.
(edited by Vinceman.4572)
40 fractal with a “relaxed” group just doesnt make enough gold to justify running it. Again it is all about efficiency.
No, that’s not true. Even a “relaxed” group farms more g/h in fractal 40 than in every other content around. RIBA is far away in numbers.
It’s one thing to not know anything about your class, the encounters and be a total beginner in this fractal but that doesn’t fit to a standard casual farm. With 5 players in at least appropriate damage gear bosses are melting anyways. Only a group of complete beginners would struggle and be total inefficient but those mentioned relaxed groups aren’t. Of course they don’t dupe the video scene, don’t use the meta comp or best in slot food but this is not necessary. And it’s not 3-4 times the gold difference, that’s too much of an exaggeration.
Not really an exaggeration, most casual groups disband pretty quickly, not even an hour tbh making the farm too short to compare to a full commited farming group. Also in the real scenario u will also have people dying at least on molten effigy cause people will down if u dont kill it fast which increases the overall time by a big margin.
(edited by zoomborg.9462)
Not really an exaggeration, most casual groups disband pretty quickly, not even an hour tbh making the farm too short to compare to a full commited farming group. Also in the real scenario u will also have people dying at least on molten effigy cause people will down if u dont kill it fast which increases the overall time by a big margin.
An hour of farming is a reasonable and adequate indicator for comparing. You don’t need to extend it because the loot won’t change over time.
And I have never seen anyone dying on molten effigy besides being total incompetent or a new player in this fractal. A lot of classes are able to block/reflect his autoattacks making them no threat at all.
You are mixing up newcomer groups with casual farmers, there’s a big difference between those.
Took me 3 runs of the dungeon to get the bug.
Not really an exaggeration, most casual groups disband pretty quickly, not even an hour tbh making the farm too short to compare to a full commited farming group. Also in the real scenario u will also have people dying at least on molten effigy cause people will down if u dont kill it fast which increases the overall time by a big margin.
An hour of farming is a reasonable and adequate indicator for comparing. You don’t need to extend it because the loot won’t change over time.
And I have never seen anyone dying on molten effigy besides being total incompetent or a new player in this fractal. A lot of classes are able to block/reflect his autoattacks making them no threat at all.
You are mixing up newcomer groups with casual farmers, there’s a big difference between those.
Perhaps i am. This is strictly from personal experience, and i always found a lot of newcomers in casual groups. It usually feels like there are at least 2 newcomers/unexperienced in casual pug groups. With guildies it might be different.
I like that 40 farms exist… It gives all the Dungeon Heroes something low level to be toxic about.
Even if ANet added a new reward system, the problem expressed in the original post here wouldn’t magically disappear. It occurs whenever there’s a reward — many people who can do content quickly don’t want to team up with people who can’t (or don’t want to); some of them will be jerks about it. (And likewise, some people don’t recognize that they aren’t as skilled and will be jerks about insisting they have a right to join groups that disagree with that assessment.)
Doing fractals already has a pretty good reward; there’s no need to add more.
Doing fractals has a good reward, for 30 minutes a day.
It has a great reward for 30 minutes a day; it has a good reward for additional time spent, depending on your group’s speed.
My proposal wouldn’t add anything to that reward. What if I wanted to play gw2 for a few hours on the weekend? Daily dungeon tours use to give a lot more daily content, now we have a ton less.
Daily dungeon tours give about as much reward as they ever did, with most of the liquid gold transferred to increased tokens, if you do 8 unique paths per cycle.
And I’m not interested in hearing anything like, ‘dungeons are still there’. They are still there, the community however is not, and that was Anet’s stated intent.
If you don’t want to hear disagreement, why post in a public forum? The reason people don’t do dungeons is that there’s a lot of stuff out there with competitive rewards — the lack of which was a major deficit in the game before.
Anet decimated the amount of daily content we had. They promised us that fractals would be taking up the slack and be the developed 5 man content going forward. But it doesn’t matter how many new fractals we get, as the daily fractal system limits the amount of daily content. There could be 200 fractals, and we would only get rewards for 3 per day in this system.
If you think you only get 3 rewards per day for doing fractals, you’re not looking at all your loot.
Doing fractals has good rewards already. I don’t think ANet needs to guarantee that there are multiple farms.
And regardless, adding or killing a farm won’t remove jerks from the game; it will just move them to a different area.
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
If you don’t want to hear disagreement, why post in a public forum? The reason people don’t do dungeons is that there’s a lot of stuff out there with competitive rewards — the lack of which was a major deficit in the game before.
I’m not interested in hearing the same tired excuse, that is why I adressed it preemptively. If you want to add something to it, go for it. But the fact is, anet purposefully killed off the dungeon community, and that drastically changes the experience for the worse.
Anet decimated the amount of daily content we had. They promised us that fractals would be taking up the slack and be the developed 5 man content going forward. But it doesn’t matter how many new fractals we get, as the daily fractal system limits the amount of daily content. There could be 200 fractals, and we would only get rewards for 3 per day in this system.
If you think you only get 3 rewards per day for doing fractals, you’re not looking at all your loot.
.
Please reread, you misread. I did not say you only get 3 rewards, wtf would that even mean. I said, you only get rewards for 3 fractals per day. That is accurate, 3 fractals per day give the full rewards, 6 if you want to include recs. However considering pages are worthless, I don’t include recs.
Doing fractals already has a pretty good reward; there’s no need to add more.
Doing fractals has a good reward, for 30 minutes a day.
It has a great reward for 30 minutes a day; it has a good reward for additional time spent, depending on your group’s speed.
Your misinterpreting what I am trying to convey. I am not trying to save t4s are not rewarding enough if your group takes 45 mins. I am complaining about how much less daily content we have now than we had years ago.
If you don’t want to hear disagreement, why post in a public forum? The reason people don’t do dungeons is that there’s a lot of stuff out there with competitive rewards — the lack of which was a major deficit in the game before.
I’m not interested in hearing the same tired excuse, that is why I adressed it preemptively. If you want to add something to it, go for it. But the fact is, anet purposefully killed off the dungeon community, and that drastically changes the experience for the worse.
You don’t get to decide, preemptively or otherwise, what counter-arguments there are. Because, if you did, someone else could say, “we’ve already said fractal rewards and daily rewards are great; there’s nothing more to say.”
ANet didn’t kill off the dungeon community; the community decided that the rewards were better elsewhere. What ANet did was make it so that dungeons were no longer vastly superior to other types of content… Moreoever, after complaints, ANet rebuffed the rewards so that they are close to where they were before HoT — people didn’t return, because they realized that there’s all sorts of other content out there that is also rewarding.
In other words, the game has more diverse methods of making gold than ever; that’s a good thing.
Anet decimated the amount of daily content we had. They promised us that fractals would be taking up the slack and be the developed 5 man content going forward. But it doesn’t matter how many new fractals we get, as the daily fractal system limits the amount of daily content. There could be 200 fractals, and we would only get rewards for 3 per day in this system.
If you think you only get 3 rewards per day for doing fractals, you’re not looking at all your loot.
.
Please reread, you misread. I did not say you only get 3 rewards, wtf would that even mean. I said, you only get rewards for 3 fractals per day. That is accurate, 3 fractals per day give the full rewards, 6 if you want to include recs. However considering pages are worthless, I don’t include recs.
Please re-read. You get rewards for all the fractals you do each day. You don’t get a special bonus reward for additional fractals. And pages are far from useless — if you want HoT stats (and probably for PoF stats), there’s a considerable discount in materials (not to mention we can avoid the need for fulgurite).
There’s plenty of daily content to do. It’s a lot more diverse than it used to be.
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
ANet didn’t kill off the dungeon community;
They literally told us their intentions directly when they did it.
Here is the source, straight from John Smith.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/Economy-Questions-Repost/first
Is the intention to deincentivize dungeons
YesIs the intention to reduce targeted liquid gold earning, or are you putting that liquid somewhere else thats targetable?
The intention is not entirely to reduce liquid gold earning, we’ll be using up the slack we generate in other locationsWhat type of instanced content do you see offering marketable rewards that players can take part in on a regular basis?
Fractals
Please re-read. You get rewards for all the fractals you do each day. You don’t get a special bonus reward for additional fractals.
Ok, lets continue with this naive fallacy that the daily chests are just, ‘bonus’ and not the real reward. Why are there no groups that do any t4s besides dailies? The daily is just a, ‘special bonus reward’ after all. It sounds like fractals are incredibly under tuned then, since only fractals that receive a ‘special bonus reward’ are ever ran at all.
Hey you said it, that’s just a, ‘special bonus reward’. So then the content should be rewarding enough that players run it without that ‘special bonus reward’ right? It is after all just a, ‘special bonus reward’ right?
(edited by thrag.9740)
ANet didn’t kill off the dungeon community;
They literally told us their intentions directly when they did it.
Here is the source, straight from John Smith.
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/hot/Economy-Questions-Repost/firstIs the intention to deincentivize dungeons
YesIs the intention to reduce targeted liquid gold earning, or are you putting that liquid somewhere else thats targetable?
The intention is not entirely to reduce liquid gold earning, we’ll be using up the slack we generate in other locationsWhat type of instanced content do you see offering marketable rewards that players can take part in on a regular basis?
FractalsPlease re-read. You get rewards for all the fractals you do each day. You don’t get a special bonus reward for additional fractals.
Ok, lets continue with this naive fallacy that the daily chests are just, ‘bonus’ and not the real reward. Why are there no groups that do any t4s besides dailies? The daily is just a, ‘special bonus reward’ after all. It sounds like fractals are incredibly under tuned then, since only fractals that receive a ‘special bonus reward’ are ever ran at all.
Hey you said it, that’s just a, ‘special bonus reward’. So then the content should be rewarding enough that players run it without that ‘special bonus reward’ right? It is after all just a, ‘special bonus reward’ right?
You should reread that link, because that link agrees with his argument. That was a side effect of other farms being similar and more diverse. Anet did not state their goal was to kill off dungeon farming. Their goal was to bring it in line.
Don’t blame the community.
Blame Anet for such a blatantly incompetent job in balancing class specs in PvE because all they balance and create for is PvP.
Don’t blame the community.
Blame Anet for such a blatantly incompetent job in balancing class specs in PvE because all they balance and create for is PvP.
You are kidding right? I hope this statement is hyperbole. Because Anet balances for the complete opposite.
Don’t blame the community.
Blame Anet for such a blatantly incompetent job in balancing class specs in PvE because all they balance and create for is PvP.
You are kidding right? I hope this statement is hyperbole. Because Anet balances for the complete opposite.
Balance changes so good and logical that no one knows what they are balancing for.
Don’t blame the community.
Blame Anet for such a blatantly incompetent job in balancing class specs in PvE because all they balance and create for is PvP.
You are kidding right? I hope this statement is hyperbole. Because Anet balances for the complete opposite.
lol, yeah, that’s why rev autoattack, hammer, unrelenting assault, utility costs, mesmer on clone death traits all got obliterated, and they won’t buff necromancer axe because “you can’t reflect the autoattack”.
Clearly they balance for PvE, that’s why for 5 years there have been deltas in performance between classes as high as 30%, nearly triple of the two top MMO’s (FFXIV, WoW; FFXIV hovers around 5% delta, WoW around 10-15%).
This game’s balance has always been spvp. Can you look with a straight face and say the new elite spec gimmicks like mirage ambush and soulbeast or spellbreaker aren’t spvp/wvw focused crap?
You got exactly what a “L40 relaxed farm” is – and yes, it definitely works!
But how do you explain that people started leaving after 12 runs? It definitely didn’t work, otherwise we would have kept going.
12 runs seems fine for a relaxed farm group. Go in, twelve runs, made some cash, time to do something else now. A farm, relaxed or otherwise, does not need to extend itself for four hours to be declared a success.
Don’t blame the community.
Blame Anet for such a blatantly incompetent job in balancing class specs in PvE because all they balance and create for is PvP.
You are kidding right? I hope this statement is hyperbole. Because Anet balances for the complete opposite.
lol, yeah, that’s why rev autoattack, hammer, unrelenting assault, utility costs, mesmer on clone death traits all got obliterated, and they won’t buff necromancer axe because “you can’t reflect the autoattack”.
Clearly they balance for PvE, that’s why for 5 years there have been deltas in performance between classes as high as 30%, nearly triple of the two top MMO’s (FFXIV, WoW; FFXIV hovers around 5% delta, WoW around 10-15%).
This game’s balance has always been spvp. Can you look with a straight face and say the new elite spec gimmicks like mirage ambush and soulbeast or spellbreaker aren’t spvp/wvw focused crap?
You are taking specific examples and trying to apply them to all of the game. If they wanted to balance for pure pvp, the would have obliterated ele’s, theive’s, and DH’s a long time ago.
Come back when you can argue with evidence rather than emotional complaints about kittenty balance. Especially now that balance is more likely to be split, this argument hold even LESS weight.
You got exactly what a “L40 relaxed farm” is – and yes, it definitely works!
But how do you explain that people started leaving after 12 runs? It definitely didn’t work, otherwise we would have kept going.
12 runs seems fine for a relaxed farm group. Go in, twelve runs, made some cash, time to do something else now. A farm, relaxed or otherwise, does not need to extend itself for four hours to be declared a success.
12 runs is about 20-30mins. That’s not really a farm bro.
12 runs is about 20-30mins. That’s not really a farm bro.
This is why pugging this farm is so terrible. You spend more time in the lfg than you do in the fractal.
Did 12 runs in a “relaxed farm” and went out with 40g + 150k (full karma boosters) in one hour. This is definitely farm and the complete opposite of terrible in my eyes. Of course you can always optimize it and get away with more but terrible is something different.
Some people really need to be grounded. ^^
Took me 3 runs of the dungeon to get the bug.
Don’t blame the community.
Blame Anet for such a blatantly incompetent job in balancing class specs in PvE because all they balance and create for is PvP.
You are kidding right? I hope this statement is hyperbole. Because Anet balances for the complete opposite.
lol, yeah, that’s why rev autoattack, hammer, unrelenting assault, utility costs, mesmer on clone death traits all got obliterated, and they won’t buff necromancer axe because “you can’t reflect the autoattack”.
Clearly they balance for PvE, that’s why for 5 years there have been deltas in performance between classes as high as 30%, nearly triple of the two top MMO’s (FFXIV, WoW; FFXIV hovers around 5% delta, WoW around 10-15%).
This game’s balance has always been spvp. Can you look with a straight face and say the new elite spec gimmicks like mirage ambush and soulbeast or spellbreaker aren’t spvp/wvw focused crap?
You are taking specific examples and trying to apply them to all of the game. If they wanted to balance for pure pvp, the would have obliterated ele’s, theive’s, and DH’s a long time ago.
Come back when you can argue with evidence rather than emotional complaints about kittenty balance. Especially now that balance is more likely to be split, this argument hold even LESS weight.
They obliterated eles, have dished out multiple pvp related nerfs to DH, and thieves have never been touched because in spvp thieves have always been balanced by the crit damage cap and inability to abuse stealth.
Did 12 runs in a “relaxed farm” and went out with 40g + 150k (full karma boosters) in one hour. This is definitely farm and the complete opposite of terrible in my eyes. Of course you can always optimize it and get away with more but terrible is something different.
Some people really need to be grounded. ^^
I’m not commenting on whether the farm is good, I’m commenting how much it stinks to have to, ‘wait to play’ because people leave frequently.
This is more so a problem with the fact that players are not synchronized. Say your farming for 1 hour, and someone leaves. You fill that spot with a fresh player, but the other 4 players are not fresh, and may not want to continue for as long. Finding a team that matches your desires and needs is always key. This is typically more difficult with pugging.
…I’m not commenting on whether the farm is good, I’m commenting how much it stinks to have to, ‘wait to play’ because people leave frequently.
You don’t have to wait in lfg for 5 people, just start the fractal and continue. It will be a bit slower with only 4 people, but that’s hell of a lot faster than not doing it at all.
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