Guild Wars 2

Hello,

Magnetite, our beloved (or maligned) raid currency is A-net’s way of providing unlucky players (such as myself) with a means for getting the boss-specific drops. Presently this currency caps out around 100 per week. I say ‘around’ because I keep track of my Magnetite per week – my entire squad does – and this cap is not always 100. Sometimes it’s around 80, sometimes it’s around 130. All ten members of my team have observed this fluctuation week over week.

This leaves us in an interesting position: Unique skins take 6 weeks to get, a Ghostly Infusion takes 10, a tonic takes 5. With the introduction of the second wing, this expands into quite the daunting process even with minipets being sell-able for an extra 40 magnetite per week.

While I appreciate fully that magnetite was even cited by the devs as the secondary way to get these drops, I have a couple of suggestions to limit the extreme frustration that is being a Raider on an account that seems to be shunned by our mighty lord RNGesus. I, for example, have cleared Vale Guardian every week since release and have never gotten the dagger or the greatsword as a drop, nor any trinkets. I have gotten 3 minipets and a lot of rares in that time.

1) Make Magnetite Cap a per-wing system. 100 for Spirit Vale, 100 for Salvation’s Pass, 100 for the third wing when it’s out. This way, people who are primarily interested in raiding and spend an overwhelming majority of their time there aren’t spending most of that time completely bereft of rewards. At least they’ll make it till Wednesday.

2) Make a skin-only option. I dont think asking 600 magnetite for a skinned ascended weapon – at least on two handed weapons – is terribly ridiculous. It’s only 100 magnetite more in the case of those two-handed items than a basic selection. It’s a bit steep for the one-handed weapons at more than double the cost of a basic one, but I suppose as long as there is a pink item under the skin it’s likely fine at 600. But I already have ascended weapons. My raiders already have ascended weapons. We don’t need more, and paying for them doesnt make sense. Making a skin-only option – even at a steep price for a skin, say 300 magnetite – would be welcomed. I dont actually need another pink dagger, but I wouldn’t mind the sparking skin even if I had to save up for a few weeks to get it, you know?

I like both of these ideas. It also encourages players who beat the raid earlier in the week to help those who still need a kill at the end of the week.

I prefer the 1st option. I too don’t really need any ascended weapons or gear. But not everybody is in that situation. Some people do the raid with exotic armor or want to gear up a alt. Also, the 2nd option doesn’t fix the problem that it take only 2 wings to max out shards. Our reward for completing the 3rd wing will be ridiculously low.

While I personally would like for the cap to be higher, given that I barely need ascended on my main account and only really needed it for my alt, magnetite is relatively easy to get. You can get 6 mini pet rolls along side weapon box rolls, and with the case of Matthias you can get both a box and skin drop from what I have seen. Meaning as it stands with max rolls someone could walk away with 820 magnetite shards in a given week assuming all bosses drop like Matthias.
On a related note I infrequently get to talk to a friend who’s a QA dev who works with the raids, and he said the reason they didn’t raise the cap was so that players wouldn’t have to repeat content, and was unable to make a comment about what they will do when raid wing 3 comes out.

Look at how it works already. People grind the raid multiple times just to hit the shard cap. If they raised that cap, people would grind more. The intent of Magnetite Shards isn’t to be a grind, and it certainly isn’t to make it a fast process to do so that you can buy rewards. Raising the cap actually heightens the grind because people want their shinies, and the more people grind the quicker they burn out on the content. I actually think 100 shards per week was a very good strategy by ANet to extend the life of their content while still giving people the ability to get rewards if their RNG is terrible.

I don’t mind the 2nd option presented here, though, but since the skins are the ‘ultimate’ rewards ANet likely wouldn’t buy into it. I, honestly, believe that the skin is what you’re paying 600 shards for and they give you the ascended weapon for free.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Look at how it works already. People grind the raid multiple times just to hit the shard cap. If they raised that cap, people would grind more. The intent of Magnetite Shards isn’t to be a grind, and it certainly isn’t to make it a fast process to do so that you can buy rewards. Raising the cap actually heightens the grind because people want their shinies, and the more people grind the quicker they burn out on the content. I actually think 100 shards per week was a very good strategy by ANet to extend the life of their content while still giving people the ability to get rewards if their RNG is terrible.

I don’t mind the 2nd option presented here, though, but since the skins are the ‘ultimate’ rewards ANet likely wouldn’t buy into it. I, honestly, believe that the skin is what you’re paying 600 shards for and they give you the ascended weapon for free.

This may be how it is for groups that beat the bosses on their first try. In my pug groups, it usually takes 1-4 tries to beat the boss.

Now with wing 2, I never need to go back to shard cap. I think it would be beneficial to provide some incentive to help groups later in the week.

Absurdo.8309:

Rising Dusk.2408:

Look at how it works already. People grind the raid multiple times just to hit the shard cap. If they raised that cap, people would grind more. The intent of Magnetite Shards isn’t to be a grind, and it certainly isn’t to make it a fast process to do so that you can buy rewards. Raising the cap actually heightens the grind because people want their shinies, and the more people grind the quicker they burn out on the content. I actually think 100 shards per week was a very good strategy by ANet to extend the life of their content while still giving people the ability to get rewards if their RNG is terrible.

I don’t mind the 2nd option presented here, though, but since the skins are the ‘ultimate’ rewards ANet likely wouldn’t buy into it. I, honestly, believe that the skin is what you’re paying 600 shards for and they give you the ascended weapon for free.

This may be how it is for groups that beat the bosses on their first try. In my pug groups, it usually takes 1-4 tries to beat the boss.

Now with wing 2, I never need to go back to shard cap. I think it would be beneficial to provide some incentive to help groups later in the week.

This is one of my biggest concerns. I am the Raid officer for a guild and my team 1 helps numerous people get kills throughout the week. We are all usually capped by Tuesday night, leaving us with a majority of the week to test, experiment, practice, and rotate with zero rewards on our end. It’s a tad frustrating.

As for what was mentioned earlier: My proposed option two would not replace the item-versions of the weapons. There would still be:

Sparking Dagger – 600 Magnetite
but also:
Sparking Dagger Skin – 300 Magnetite

In regards to drops; I dont think i’ve yet met a single person who got 6 minipets in a week. Most I have personally encountered is two, and it was like the best kitten week ever for me because that kind of drop luck is just astounding for my account. Ive also never gotten a piece of ascended anything from any of the boss chests, and have gotten one ghostly infusion. Maybe I am exceptionally unlucky, but members of my squads have all mimicked a similar experience for the most part. I understand that magnetite is not meant to be the primary way of getting rewards, but for many players (in my circles at least) it is so far the only way.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Look at how it works already. People grind the raid multiple times just to hit the shard cap. If they raised that cap, people would grind more.

Sorry, but that’s a complete lie. I respect you dusk, but that’s just non sense.

The first wing give you exactly 50 Shards if you complete it in 1 try with zero retry. It,s even higher with the map bonus rate. So if you are in the perfect group you can reach the cap in 2 hours by completing the 2 first wings. If you don’t have the perfect group and wipe once or twice per boss like most group before completing them, you will hit the cap in the middle of the 2nd wing. They have a HUGE HUGE HUGE space to increase the cap before you start to see grind for shards.

With map bonus rate, you could complete all 3 wings only once with the perfect group and reach between 150 and 180 shards. The total will be more around 200 and 220 for most pug group.

If they don’t want people to grind shards, they could simply make a 50 shards per wing cap when the 3rd wing is introduced. That’s the bare minimum of shard you get from simply doing the content with zero repetition.

I would prefer that they put a 150 shard cap for the whole raid because that way a group can play 2-3 times the same wing to pratice one week without being punishing in term of shard.

Even better I would put a limit of 200 shard per week for the whole raid so that most group don’t hit the cap just by playing and wiping 1-2 times per boss like most group does. Yes in that case, the hardcore group might farm a little by doing 1 wing twice per week, but is it really farming at that point??

Just give me the option to buy a basic ascended backpiece with no special skin for less than 600 shards so I can get vipers stats on that too; that alone would make me happy tbh

I think the 100 shard per week cap is fine. I would not want it raised for the next wing of this raid. Ascended items aren’t supposed to drop like candy; they’re the endgame item goal. The intent is to give a reasonable reward even to players who got unlucky with raid drops.

Currently a full set of ascended armor costs 1300 shards. This means you will get the equivalent of a “free” armor set with any stats every 3 months, plus you get random drops from raids (including minis) and from fotm, and from open world if you’re really lucky. That doesn’t seem unreasonable, given the gold cost of an ascended armor set.

Something I could see being done is reducing the cost of certain pieces of gear (chest, leggings, 2H weapons) so that their magnetite/gold ratio is more in line with the other options.

As far as the skins go, yeah the cost is pretty steep, but the prestige of having these weapons has a lot to do with how difficult they are to get. Lower the cost too much and a lot of the incentive to buy them in the first place disappears.

The only one that seems totally ridiculous is the backpack, as there is no “regular” version to get with certain desirable stat combos. Fortunately the backpack provides so few stat points that it doesn’t matter that much, but I can definitely sympathize with people who want to finish their character’s item set and have no other option for a vipers/assassins/whatever backpack.

Dinosaurs.8674:

I think the 100 shard per week cap is fine. I would not want it raised for the next wing of this raid. Ascended items aren’t supposed to drop like candy; they’re the endgame item goal. The intent is to give a reasonable reward even to players who got unlucky with raid drops.

Currently a full set of ascended armor costs 1300 shards. This means you will get the equivalent of a “free” armor set with any stats every 3 months, plus you get random drops from raids (including minis) and from fotm, and from open world if you’re really lucky. That doesn’t seem unreasonable, given the gold cost of an ascended armor set.

Something I could see being done is reducing the cost of certain pieces of gear (chest, leggings, 2H weapons) so that their magnetite/gold ratio is more in line with the other options.

As far as the skins go, yeah the cost is pretty steep, but the prestige of having these weapons has a lot to do with how difficult they are to get. Lower the cost too much and a lot of the incentive to buy them in the first place disappears.

The only one that seems totally ridiculous is the backpack, as there is no “regular” version to get with certain desirable stat combos. Fortunately the backpack provides so few stat points that it doesn’t matter that much, but I can definitely sympathize with people who want to finish their character’s item set and have no other option for a vipers/assassins/whatever backpack.

It shouldn’t take anyone 3 months to get a set of ascended armor, but beyond that point… raiders already /have/ ascended armor for the most part. They /definitely/ already have ascended weapons. I dont see why drops from ‘other places’ are even factored in towards the magnetite cap.

As far as the skins go, this wont decrease their ‘exclucitivity’ in any way. There is no difference between myself and someone else who has the skin other than RNG Drop Luck. You cannot buy skins from bosses you havnt killed in the vendor, you cannot get Magnetite without consistently phasing and killing bosses, so you cannot get the skins unless you are a persistent raider. 5-11% of the population of the game will have these skins, regardless of magnetite cap or their magnetite cost. 300 magnetite, to a non-raid player, may as well be 10,000 for how obtainable it is.

Increasing the Mag cap – Or, as I said, offering a “Skin only” version of the items in raids for a cheaper price – only helps even out probability for people who regularly do raids.

I dont need another pink dagger. I already have all the pink daggers I will ever need. If I could pay, heck, even 400 – more than 50% of the cost – for “Sparking Dagger Skin” instead of 600 for a stat-select-able ascended dagger, I would. I hit the 100 Magnetite cap by Tuesday night on a slow week and by the time I go to bed on Monday on a fast one. This leaves me doing the only content I really enjoy anymore for a full week with no rewards, and my situation is not a unique one by any stretch – is that really a good way to be?

AndyJo.8794:

It shouldn’t take anyone 3 months to get a set of ascended armor, but beyond that point… raiders already /have/ ascended armor for the most part. They /definitely/ already have ascended weapons. I dont see why drops from ‘other places’ are even factored in towards the magnetite cap.

I didn’t say it should take 3 moths to get an ascended armor set, I said that getting a guaranteed “free” armor set every 3 months wasn’t unreasonable, especially given the flexibility of being able to choose any stat combination. Obviously you can supplement your magnetite purchases with raid drops/fotm drops/world boss drops/crafting.

Also I have geared up multiple characters with ascended armor primarily with magnetite. I don’t know why you would think that people who raid don’t need more ascended armor. Not everyone is rolling through forsaken thicket with 20 ascended armor sets.

AndyJo.8794:

As far as the skins go, this wont decrease their ‘exclucitivity’ in any way. There is no difference between myself and someone else who has the skin other than RNG Drop Luck. You cannot buy skins from bosses you havnt killed in the vendor, you cannot get Magnetite without consistently phasing and killing bosses, so you cannot get the skins unless you are a persistent raider. 5-11% of the population of the game will have these skins, regardless of magnetite cap or their magnetite cost. 300 magnetite, to a non-raid player, may as well be 10,000 for how obtainable it is.

Increasing the Mag cap – Or, as I said, offering a “Skin only” version of the items in raids for a cheaper price – only helps even out probability for people who regularly do raids.

How would it not decrease exclusivity? You’re saying that if it were made cheaper no more people would buy it? I know multiple people that have already bought the matthias greatsword and staff just for the skin, but I also know people that won’t buy it because the magnetite cost is so high, and I am in this group myself. Also a requirement to kill the boss once is not a particularly stringent requirement, especially considering people sell the boss kills.

That said, you are probably right in the long term that everyone who is ever going to get the skins will get them and it will be something around that number. In the short term, however, I know only a few people who have some of the new white mantle weapons, and decreasing the cost would definitely make them less exclusive, at least among my guild lol. I don’t think there would be anything wrong with lowering the cost for the skins or the items outright after the wing had been out for 2-3 months or something.

Another cool thing they could do would be to add something like the spvp reward tracks that could earn you a specific skin of your choice at the end. You would earn points for your weekly kill, and earn a smaller amount of points for subsequent kills, providing an incentive to keep raiding all week. I would like this solution better but it probably isn’t going to happen lol.

AndyJo.8794:

I dont need another pink dagger. I already have all the pink daggers I will ever need. If I could pay, heck, even 400 – more than 50% of the cost – for “Sparking Dagger Skin” instead of 600 for a stat-select-able ascended dagger, I would. I hit the 100 Magnetite cap by Tuesday night on a slow week and by the time I go to bed on Monday on a fast one. This leaves me doing the only content I really enjoy anymore for a full week with no rewards, and my situation is not a unique one by any stretch – is that really a good way to be?

I mean I hit the magnetite cap every sunday night/monday morning within a couple hours of reset, but I also just enjoy raiding and continue to do it throughout the week. If the cap goes up I’ll just cap it out a tiny bit later. I would agree that currently the incentive to continue raiding after the weekly kills is probably a little too low, but increasing the magnetite cap wouldn’t provide any additional incentive, it would just make me cap out slightly later with zero additional effort because I was going to raid again anyway. I guess you could lower the shards per boss like what it was before, but it feels “right” that you cap out on shards by killing every boss in the wing (especially since there are people that only want to clear once each week).

Something else is that while killing raid bosses again obviously isn’t super profitable, it actually isn’t that bad. Bags of Gear average out to something like 20s each and the utility backpacks are worth a little bit. If you can clear spirit vale in like 30 minutes (not unreasonable for an experienced group) you’re probably making like 8-10g an hour, minus the cost of food (which doesn’t have to be T1 food) plus you can get ascended boxes from the utility backpacks. So there is some reward there, it just isn’t very glamorous.

PS I have the sparking dagger and it kinda sucks lol…sounds like it would have a cool particle effect but there’s nothing.

I have an idea…
How about we lower the amount of magnate shards you get for each phase/completion?

That would mean you would have to complete wing 1, 2, 3 and a rerun of one of the wings before you hit the cap.

Sounds like a win-win to me.

Well, I mean, they could increase mag cap to 150 when wing 3 comes out…
Doesn’t seem like too much of a deal <.< 100 for an entire raid is a little stupid. Not unfair, just stupid. It leaves players like me, the unlucky ones, with a feeling of “well, that was it? alright… /sigh”.

Like, it’s gonna take me 10-12 weeks to get my necro decked in full ascended viper’s trinkets. I don’t mind the grind, I mind the timegating. I’m not ok with the lame shards-weren’t-meant-to-be-the-main-way-to-get-things the moment when there’s only ONE way in the game to get this BiS gear. They should’ve it figured out by now: it sucks.

Thaddeus.4891:

Sorry, but that’s a complete lie. I respect you dusk, but that’s just non sense.

I have a number of raid-primary friends and their guilds who grind to 100 shards and then do other things with their week and time. They’ve repeatedly told me that if the shard cap were higher, they’d feel ‘compelled’ to do it. It’s the same reason why so many people like the 15k daily AP cap; when they hit it, they feel able to do other things.

Let me reiterate, though: The shards are not the rewards, the once-per-week chests are. The shards are simply so people who have bad RNG can still get shinies eventually. Obtaining shards is, by design, not supposed to be a grind or something to be farmed. It’s supposed to just happen so that over multiple weeks you’ll be able to buy your item. If you want to repeat bosses multiple times per week, that’s your prerogative. If the sole reward of helping a friend beat a boss isn’t good enough for you to help your friend, then that’s that.

I strongly feel that this is one of those cases where people who want higher Magnetite Shard caps don’t properly understand the intent of the system and the psychological impact on the players that comes from increasing it. The entire purpose of the 100 shard cap is so that completing 2 of the 3 wings with no failures will cap you out, and so that if you struggle a bit and need extra tries you’ll get it on just 1 wing. Those numbers are very specifically chosen, and they’re working as-is.

Once we have another expansion and another raid, it will use a different currency and have its own shard cap. When we get to that point, people who want to raid exclusively in GW2 will have even more option for rewards before capping for the week.

EDIT:
@ deSade: I do agree that having no other means for Viper’s trinkets (or other HoT-exclusive stat combinations) is garbage. Raids should not be mandatory for purposes of gearing out a character.

I generally dont get into these discussions but seriously raid rewards leave a very bad taste in my mouth. I dont know if increasing shard cap is the answer or adding more rewards but there absolutely needs to be some incentive to repeat the bosses every week instead of just 4 bags of gear and 2 champ bags.

Ive heard the argument about shard cap being there so players dont burn themselves out with raid and i would go along with it if there was any other content to do in game pve wise. None of the map events interest me, its been 5+ months since release ive done them enough times. Mindlessly AA-ing is not fun. Fractals..we all know doing swamp x 6, daily x2, Duo x1 is not fun. And fractal is content ive already burned myself out on for past 3 years. Dungeons being the same.

This leaves us with only raids which are really fun to do. I clear with my group then pug it almost everyday for no rewards and this is really making me walk away from the game more and more. The frustration just keeps growing. What is there to do that has any decent incentive..40 farm it is i suppose.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Thaddeus.4891:

Sorry, but that’s a complete lie. I respect you dusk, but that’s just non sense.

I have a number of raid-primary friends and their guilds who grind to 100 shards and then do other things with their week and time. They’ve repeatedly told me that if the shard cap were higher, they’d feel ‘compelled’ to do it. It’s the same reason why so many people like the 15k daily AP cap; when they hit it, they feel able to do other things.

Let me reiterate, though: The shards are not the rewards, the once-per-week chests are. The shards are simply so people who have bad RNG can still get shinies eventually. Obtaining shards is, by design, not supposed to be a grind or something to be farmed. It’s supposed to just happen so that over multiple weeks you’ll be able to buy your item. If you want to repeat bosses multiple times per week, that’s your prerogative. If the sole reward of helping a friend beat a boss isn’t good enough for you to help your friend, then that’s that.

I strongly feel that this is one of those cases where people who want higher Magnetite Shard caps don’t properly understand the intent of the system and the psychological impact on the players that comes from increasing it. The entire purpose of the 100 shard cap is so that completing 2 of the 3 wings with no failures will cap you out, and so that if you struggle a bit and need extra tries you’ll get it on just 1 wing. Those numbers are very specifically chosen, and they’re working as-is.

Once we have another expansion and another raid, it will use a different currency and have its own shard cap. When we get to that point, people who want to raid exclusively in GW2 will have even more option for rewards before capping for the week.

EDIT:
@ deSade: I do agree that having no other means for Viper’s trinkets (or other HoT-exclusive stat combinations) is garbage. Raids should not be mandatory for purposes of gearing out a character.

Shards are one incentive to complete a raid multiple times in a single week. If anet doesn’t want to increase the shard cap, then there should be a higher reward for multiple completions. It doesn’t need to be super high – I think something equivalent to 1g would suffice. Having some incentive to complete a raid multiple times is good for everyone, as it increases the raid population pool later in the week.

For the record, I think the shard cap does need to be increased.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Thaddeus.4891:

Sorry, but that’s a complete lie. I respect you dusk, but that’s just non sense.

I have a number of raid-primary friends and their guilds who grind to 100 shards and then do other things with their week and time. They’ve repeatedly told me that if the shard cap were higher, they’d feel ‘compelled’ to do it. It’s the same reason why so many people like the 15k daily AP cap; when they hit it, they feel able to do other things.

Let me reiterate, though: The shards are not the rewards, the once-per-week chests are. The shards are simply so people who have bad RNG can still get shinies eventually. Obtaining shards is, by design, not supposed to be a grind or something to be farmed. It’s supposed to just happen so that over multiple weeks you’ll be able to buy your item. If you want to repeat bosses multiple times per week, that’s your prerogative. If the sole reward of helping a friend beat a boss isn’t good enough for you to help your friend, then that’s that.

I strongly feel that this is one of those cases where people who want higher Magnetite Shard caps don’t properly understand the intent of the system and the psychological impact on the players that comes from increasing it. The entire purpose of the 100 shard cap is so that completing 2 of the 3 wings with no failures will cap you out, and so that if you struggle a bit and need extra tries you’ll get it on just 1 wing. Those numbers are very specifically chosen, and they’re working as-is.

Once we have another expansion and another raid, it will use a different currency and have its own shard cap. When we get to that point, people who want to raid exclusively in GW2 will have even more option for rewards before capping for the week.

I was specifically talking about what you said ‘’People grind the raid multiple times just to hit the shard cap’’. Which is not really true. You can do just the first wing twice and hit the cap. You can do the 2 first wing once and hit the cap. Is that grinding the raid multiple times? No, so that specific sentence was a lie. Probably not because of bad intention, but probably by lack of experience in raid I suppose.

I can see your point about what anet want to do, but I disagree.

1) The shards are not the rewards, the once-per-week chests are. Maybe it was their intention, but it’s not what we see in the game. About half of the reward we get in the raid are the Shards. Just look at the ghosly infusion. It took about 2-3 hours to hit the weekly cap of 100 shards and in 10 weeks or between 20 and 30 hours to get enough shards to buy an infusion that you can sold for a profit of about 350 gold minimum. That’s between 11 and 17 gold per hours of raid just for the Shard alone, which is far more than all the remaining reward, especially for the first wing that give less reward now. Maybe they planned on shard behind a side reward, but in reality it’s probably the biggest reward.

2) Higher cap will push toward more grind. You are right, but like anything it’s about balance. A cap of 1 shard per week is obviously ridiculous and is a bad decision. No cap at all, would push people toward grinding raid, which is not really a great idea either. So the best stop is between those extremes. Like I said before, the cap right now don’t really have any problems since we only have 2 wings. A good team will reach the cap without really losing any shards just by completing the first 2 wings. The problems will appear when the 3rd wing will appear because now you will only get shards as a reward for 2 of those 3 wings. A lot of people will choose to play 2 of those 3 wings and forget about one of them because the reward isn’t great at all, especially for the first 2 wings which at that point will give less gold reward than the 3rd. On wing, the one that most people will consider a bit more complicated or longer to clear will have lot less traffic than the other 2. Why arbitrarily put a limit on the reward for 1 or the 3 wings? I don’t want super high cap so we grind the same raid 3-4 times per week, but I would still appreciation to have the full reward the first time per week I do each of the wings.

Again, this is not a problem for now, but it will be when the 3rd wing arrive.

I want to clarify that just because I don’t personally think the shard cap should be increased, I do in general find rewards for raids really bad and agree that they should be better. A single mostly useless exotic, 2 gold, and a guaranteed rare item is very, very weak for the difficulty of the content. I would much rather see the core rewards for raids improved than have the shard system mucked with, but that’s me.

Rising Dusk.2408:

I want to clarify that just because I don’t personally think the shard cap should be increased, I do in general find rewards for raids really bad and agree that they should be better. A single mostly useless exotic, 2 gold, and a guaranteed rare item is very, very weak for the difficulty of the content. I would much rather see the core rewards for raids improved than have the shard system mucked with, but that’s me.

Ya but you understand than when the 3rd wing will be in the game, you will be able to do only 2 of the 3 wings once before you hit the cap and the 3rd wing you gonna want to do will give you zero shards right? And do you consider that a good design?

I mean, they don’t need to increase the cap, they can change the system a lot of ways. For exemple, they could decrease the amount of shards so that you receive like 10 shards per boss so you don’t hit the cap when you did all 3 wings, but buff the weekly reward from each boss. Or really any other solutions. But I just find it weird that you could complete all of their wing only once and still don’t get the normal reward.

Thaddeus.4891:

Ya but you understand than when the 3rd wing will be in the game, you will be able to do only 2 of the 3 wings once before you hit the cap and the 3rd wing you gonna want to do will give you zero shards right? And do you consider that a good design?

You still get the ground chest for every boss once a week, with relatively high chances for good loot. Furthermore, any ascended gear you get can salvage to 60 shards and any minis can be sold back for 40. I would still consider it wholly worth it to run all 3 wings even if you cap on shards. I still think the liquid rewards for the bosses could be better (2g for old wings is terrible), but overall I still find it worth it.

I think asking if this is good design is the wrong way to think about it. In my mind, the shards from the kills are “extra”, so whether I get 10 or 20 or cap at 100 doesn’t phase me. To me, they’re serving as a hedge fund for when I want things but didn’t get the drop I want. For that function, I find them very well designed.

Rising Dusk.2408:

You still get the ground chest for every boss once a week, with relatively high chances for good loot. Furthermore, any ascended gear you get can salvage to 60 shards and any minis can be sold back for 40. I would still consider it wholly worth it to run all 3 wings even if you cap on shards. I still think the liquid rewards for the bosses could be better (2g for old wings is terrible), but overall I still find it worth it.

I think asking if this is good design is the wrong way to think about it. In my mind, the shards from the kills are “extra”, so whether I get 10 or 20 or cap at 100 doesn’t phase me. To me, they’re serving as a hedge fund for when I want things but didn’t get the drop I want. For that function, I find them very well designed.

I just don’t get you man. Shards is way more rewarding than the chance of loot at each boss. Like I said. Shards give you between 10 and 17gold per hour of reward, which is by far the biggest portion of your reward from raid, unless you are really lucky in your drops. And even if shard were just a small reward, the thing is you said it yourself. The current reward for raid is meh, but you are ok with 1 or the 3rd wing having less reward because of the cap. I just can’t understand your point of no giving a kitten about losing a big part of your reward for 1 of the 3rd wing.

Thaddeus.4891:

Rising Dusk.2408:

You still get the ground chest for every boss once a week, with relatively high chances for good loot. Furthermore, any ascended gear you get can salvage to 60 shards and any minis can be sold back for 40. I would still consider it wholly worth it to run all 3 wings even if you cap on shards. I still think the liquid rewards for the bosses could be better (2g for old wings is terrible), but overall I still find it worth it.

I think asking if this is good design is the wrong way to think about it. In my mind, the shards from the kills are “extra”, so whether I get 10 or 20 or cap at 100 doesn’t phase me. To me, they’re serving as a hedge fund for when I want things but didn’t get the drop I want. For that function, I find them very well designed.

I just don’t get you man. Shards is way more rewarding than the chance of loot at each boss. Like I said. Shards give you between 10 and 17gold per hour of reward, which is by far the biggest portion of your reward from raid, unless you are really lucky in your drops. And even if shard were just a small reward, the thing is you said it yourself. The current reward for raid is meh, but you are ok with 1 or the 3rd wing having less reward because of the cap. I just can’t understand your point of no giving a kitten about losing a big part of your reward for 1 of the 3rd wing.

Then what they have to do isn’t upping the shard cap, but the boss kill rewards instead.

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Then what they have to do isn’t upping the shard cap, but the boss kill rewards instead.

Bingo.

Rising Dusk.2408:

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Then what they have to do isn’t upping the shard cap, but the boss kill rewards instead.

Bingo.

Both solutions can be an appropriate answer to the problem. I still see an increased shard cap as superior because it increases the incentive to run a boss multiple times in the same week. That increases the player pool for those who raid on the weekend.

Absurdo.8309:

Both solutions can be an appropriate answer to the problem. I still see an increased shard cap as superior because it increases the incentive to run a boss multiple times in the same week. That increases the player pool for those who raid on the weekend.

Maybe, but there’s a big incentive for ANet to keep the shard cap lower because it encourages people to keep coming back week after week to play raids. The way they currently have it provably improves player retention, which is a big thing for an MMO. If people would run raids repeatedly every day because the shard cap keeps rewarding them, they’d end up the way of dungeons apparently where people get bored of them very quickly.

Thaddeus.4891:

Shards is way more rewarding than the chance of loot at each boss.

As it currently is, you’re right.

The thing is, the design intent of ANET here is apparently that the loot from each boss is supposed to be the primary reward, whereas magnetite shards are a secondary reward for those unlucky in getting a specific desired primary reward. A system that the community has championed for awhile.

So it seems what people should be asking for is increased drop rates of Ascended gear at bosses, instead of a higher magnetite shard cap.

This is especially the case as I’d imagine another reason for the existing magnetite shard cap in concert at the rate they’re earned is another design decision; they don’t want people to repeatedly grind raids for magnetite shards, and that includes people who are struggling with raid clears / don’t have the kind of fast and efficient clears that elite guilds may have. It’s a smart way to extend the life of the content, and also a good way to make it such that people don’t feel “forced” to grind raids. (Of course, there isn’t much else in the game to do other than raid at the moment, which is unfortunate, but assuming that changes…)

Rising Dusk.2408:

Maybe, but there’s a big incentive for ANet to keep the shard cap lower because it encourages people to keep coming back week after week to play raids. The way they currently have it provably improves player retention, which is a big thing for an MMO. If people would run raids repeatedly every day because the shard cap keeps rewarding them, they’d end up the way of dungeons apparently where people get bored of them very quickly.

I would refer you to my previous response in this thread. If they want retention there needs to be more content not gut the rewards from content that is there. And dont increase the shard cap but at least have some incentive to repeat the raids multiple times a week. The way it is right now, its almost like they dont want you playing more than once a week.

Rising Dusk.2408:

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Then what they have to do isn’t upping the shard cap, but the boss kill rewards instead.

Bingo.

But it won’t fix the problem that I was talking about. Even if they boost the reward from the boss kill, you will still get shard for only 2 or the 3 wings. The last wing you will do each week will still be the least rewarding. But like I said there could be numerous solution.

- They could increase the cap to 150 with the 3rd wing. No grind involve since you get about 50 shard per wing if you do it only once.

- They could boost the reward from boss and drop the amount of shard, either by removing the guild buff that boost your amount of shard, or just straight nerfing the amount of shard to about 10 per boss so you get around 90-100 shard per week while doing all 3 wings.

But just buffing the reward from boss just fix the amount of reward you get, it doesn’t fix the fact that you will receive part of your reward (the shard part) only for 2 or the 3 wings in the current system.

Thaddeus.4891:

Rising Dusk.2408:

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Then what they have to do isn’t upping the shard cap, but the boss kill rewards instead.

Bingo.

But it won’t fix the problem that I was talking about. Even if they boost the reward from the boss kill, you will still get shard for only 2 or the 3 wings. The last wing you will do each week will still be the least rewarding. But like I said there could be numerous solution.

- They could increase the cap to 150 with the 3rd wing. No grind involve since you get about 50 shard per wing if you do it only once.

- They could boost the reward from boss and drop the amount of shard, either by removing the guild buff that boost your amount of shard, or just straight nerfing the amount of shard to about 10 per boss so you get around 90-100 shard per week while doing all 3 wings.

But just buffing the reward from boss just fix the amount of reward you get, it doesn’t fix the fact that you will receive part of your reward (the shard part) only for 2 or the 3 wings in the current system.

I’d guess they’re aware of this and want to keep it, or they’ll just bump the cap up once w3 is released.

With the ability to sell mini and salvage ascended gear, and with the increase from 3 boss chests to 6 boss chests, the shard cap was effectively raised from 100 to 150. It is very rare to kill all 6 bosses and not get a single mini or ascended drop. Once we have 9 bosses the effective cap will raise even further to roughly 175 shards a week on average.

This seems reasonable to me. If they raise the cap too high then people will be able to get all the skins they want in just a few months, leaving raiding content dead for newer players. The intent was to keep raids relevant for years, meaning they must enforce a low cap in order to keep people coming back.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

With the ability to sell mini and salvage ascended gear, and with the increase from 3 boss chests to 6 boss chests, the shard cap was effectively raised from 100 to 150. It is very rare to kill all 6 bosses and not get a single mini or ascended drop. Once we have 9 bosses the effective cap will raise even further to roughly 175 shards a week on average.

This seems reasonable to me. If they raise the cap too high then people will be able to get all the skins they want in just a few months, leaving raiding content dead for newer players. The intent was to keep raids relevant for years, meaning they must enforce a low cap in order to keep people coming back.

No i don’t think you get the point. The point isn’t that we don’t get enough shard per week. The point is that with the guild buff you receive about 50 shard per wing without selling anything. So when the 3rd wing will arrive, just by doing the 3 wing normally, you will get about 150 shards, but you will only receive 100 of those. The first 2 wings you will do will give you more reward than the 3rd one you will do each week. It’s just a weird and bad system. You shouldn’t hit the cap by doing each boss only once per week.

It’s like if you wouldn’t receive any fractal relic on the 3rd fractal of your daily.

I have a solution :
Award less shards
On any boss:
Max for Phase 1: 1 shard
Max for phase 2: 2 shards
Max for phase 3: 3 shards…

Boss Kill: 10 shards.

Simple, very easy to understand – cant be too hard to implement either.
I think we get too many shards atm.

TPMN.1483:

I have a solution :
Award less shards
On any boss:
Max for Phase 1: 1 shard
Max for phase 2: 2 shards
Max for phase 3: 3 shards…

Boss Kill: 10 shards.

Simple, very easy to understand – cant be too hard to implement either.
I think we get too many shards atm.

That’s my solution too, but they should introduce it with the 3rd wing, and implement some buff to the weekly boss kill reward. Because right now, the overall reward isn’t that great. The initial reward for raid were good, but over time it decreased. XP is useless for most people now and with half the reward in the first wing, the reward isn’t good enough anymore. They should keep the gold reward equal for all wing and not reduce it when a new wing appear. There is already enough incentive to do the new wing without that tbh. It’s new content that people are happy to try and learn after all.

Thaddeus.4891:

TPMN.1483:

I have a solution :
Award less shards
On any boss:
Max for Phase 1: 1 shard
Max for phase 2: 2 shards
Max for phase 3: 3 shards…

Boss Kill: 10 shards.

Simple, very easy to understand – cant be too hard to implement either.
I think we get too many shards atm.

That’s my solution too, but they should introduce it with the 3rd wing, and implement some buff to the weekly boss kill reward. Because right now, the overall reward isn’t that great. The initial reward for raid were good, but over time it decreased. XP is useless for most people now and with half the reward in the first wing, the reward isn’t good enough anymore. They should keep the gold reward equal for all wing and not reduce it when a new wing appear. There is already enough incentive to do the new wing without that tbh. It’s new content that people are happy to try and learn after all.

I’m against reducing the shard reward. I think most raiders agree that the rewards are a little under-tuned. Reducing the rewards should not be the answer.

Again, I think the main problem is that there’s little incentive to repeat a boss. This can be solved by increasing the shard cap, or rewarding more on repeat runs. I would be fine with either solution.

The rewards are rubbish.. and always will be from raids.. from an old post of mine:
So for equivalency :
A set of ascended armour via raids: 1300 shards, 47.5 gold- time sink: 13 weeks (based on 100 shards/week max : excluding minis)
OR
700 gold (get instantly via crafting).

Most groups in my experience will take 3-4 hrs or so and can shard cap (by failing a few times) if they are successful also [most people will do some training runs for others]. Gold generated (Spirit Vale): 4 gold.[For a single clear].

So the direct gold/hr = 1 g/ hr (nice and low right?). This excludes current food costs – which often negates most of the profit as people afk, etc – as organising 10 man content is well a nightmare. Does that mean the 1300 shards is worth: 700-45: 655 gold?

Probably not..
655g/(13 weeks x 4) = 12.5gold/hr if the cost of ascended armour does not move.
The cost of ascended armour will lower over time. If we use the ghostly infusion (~500g/1000 shards): still works out to 12.5g/hr – a mat conversion via the TP.
This price is steadily falling too.

I expect the raid gold/hr to keep falling significantly if the material costs of ascended items falls : we know it will as they don’t like prices this high for the ascended armour.

Doesn’t really seem worth raiding does it now unless you want some of those more exclusive skins – which have to be bought with shards if you get bad RNG.

Silver wastes generates materials / drops – which gives about 10-15g/hr. Especially more if you can bounce breach events in a row or get a good chest farm going.

Remember to open the bags on a lower level alt for maximised profits- it’s still mat conversion to TP to gold. It’s not direct liquid gold.

Material farming/harvesting which is not liquid gold generation can easily net you 15g/hr once you sell the mats back on the trading post. This is really handy for those watch work sprocket mining picks.

Dungeons currently offer about 4-8ghr in liquid gold (less up front costs than raiding) if you can get a good group. This takes some time to organise and requires skill. Most groups are failing badly or not forming as the gold/hr generated (even though it is liquid) requires skill and is one of the lowest gold/hr items in the game.

It’s funny how all things seem to balance the gold/hr generated in PVE mostly – yet material farming right now or SW still generates the most liquid gold for a player (after mat conversion) via the TP.

Absurdo.8309:

If you looked at my solution, I buffed the weekly boss reward to balance the less of shard. Increasing the shard cap won’t fix the issue either since just doing the 3 wings once will reach the cap anyway. You would need to increase the cap to like 200 or more to incentive to run repeat run, which start to be a little too much according to some people.

I would be happy either way. Personnally, I prefer the shard reward, which allow you to buy what you want, than the RNG chance of dropping sometime nice or nothing.

Heres an idea: Have the bonus shards you gain for the first boss kill per boss per week not count against the cap. That increases the max amount of shards you could gain per week to 184 currently and assumedly 226 when the next wing comes out. It fulfills RisingDusk’s goal of increasing the reward per kill while improving the raid talent pool throughout the week as more players will continue to log on to raid to shard cap.

Thaddeus.4891:

Absurdo.8309:

If you looked at my solution, I buffed the weekly boss reward to balance the less of shard. Increasing the shard cap won’t fix the issue either since just doing the 3 wings once will reach the cap anyway. You would need to increase the cap to like 200 or more to incentive to run repeat run, which start to be a little too much according to some people.

I would be happy either way. Personnally, I prefer the shard reward, which allow you to buy what you want, than the RNG chance of dropping sometime nice or nothing.

I’m not opposed to a shard cap of 200, or even one as high as 300.

We’ve had some experience with a shard cap of 100 for only one wing. And I thought is was fine. I actually wanted to run bosses again to reach the cap. Some people think that’s a negative, because then they feel forced to go for the cap. I don’t. I think it increases the incentive to repeat bosses, and makes a larger player pool for those who raid later in the week.

I understand if some people think shards were not designed for this, and perhaps some of the pricing isn’t (With a shard cap of 300 you could earn an ascended piece a week. While this isn’t crazy, some may see it as too quick). But, personally, I think the main issue is the lack of incentive to repeat a boss. While increased rewards would be nice, it doesn’t really address this problem. (And, personally, I’d rather have increased repeat rewards than increased baseline rewards).

To put some numbers out there, I think a repeat reward equivalent or equal to 1-2 gold would be adequate.

Absurdo.8309:

I’m not opposed to a shard cap of 200, or even one as high as 300.

We’ve had some experience with a shard cap of 100 for only one wing. And I thought is was fine. I actually wanted to run bosses again to reach the cap. Some people think that’s a negative, because then they feel forced to go for the cap. I don’t. I think it increases the incentive to repeat bosses, and makes a larger player pool for those who raid later in the week.

I understand if some people think shards were not designed for this, and perhaps some of the pricing isn’t (With a shard cap of 300 you could earn an ascended piece a week. While this isn’t crazy, some may see it as too quick). But, personally, I think the main issue is the lack of incentive to repeat a boss. While increased rewards would be nice, it doesn’t really address this problem. (And, personally, I’d rather have increased repeat rewards than increased baseline rewards).

To put some numbers out there, I think a repeat reward equivalent or equal to 1-2 gold would be adequate.

I’m all for creating incentives for players to continue raiding during the week, but I think that increasing the magnetite cap is a poor way to do it. You can say that you don’t feel “forced” to go for the cap, but magnetite is so valuable relative to how easy it is to get that I believe most people would feel forced to go back for it. In fact, it used to take a lot longer to cap out on shards, I believe it was about two full clears of spirit vale (maybe a bit more?) to cap, and players definitely felt forced to go back for shards. You haven’t really “finished” raiding for the week until you have capped magnetite, and it seems silly to not give players a complete raid reward for a full clear.

There are other smaller issues such as devaluing ascended items, or making them so easy to get that very pew people would ever craft them. But the biggest problem with using the shard cap to incentivize multiple clears is that once people hit the new cap they just go back to the same point they were at before – capped out on shards and having no incentive to raid. What would be better is a system that continues to give a decent reward no matter how many times you have cleared. This is actually what we have right now – all clears after the first give the same number of bags of gear and utility backpacks every time. You can question whether this is an adequate reward, but the way it was implemented isn’t bad at all.

And let’s be fair here, if you say the reward for a boss clear should be 1-2 gold then we’re already there, because bags of gear are worth about 20s each (or at least they were last time we checked with a mass opening), and utility backpacks are probably something like 5-10s on average, even discounting the fact that they can (rarely) give ascended boxes. If you clear sabetha and the trash before her you will get what? 7 bags of gear and 3 utility backpacks? which is worth about 1.5g per run. That isn’t horrible, considering an experienced group could easily clear sabetha + trash in under 10 minutes. I mean it isn’t something people are going to farm, but it isn’t god awful.

I too would like to see incentives to repeat bosses, but going too much higher than 1.5g seems like it could eventually make farming it too ridiculous. I still like the idea I had earlier about making reward tracks for raids based on points for boss kills throughout the week. Something else you could do would be to have – in addition to the typical weekly clear – weekly raid quests to kill a certain boss with certain criteria (e.g. kill Slothasor without using food/utility, kill Matthias with more than 2 minutes left, kill VG after he has been enraged for more than one minute, kill X boss without using X class).

Dinosaurs.8674:

There are other smaller issues such as devaluing ascended items, or making them so easy to get that very pew people would ever craft them. But the biggest problem with using the shard cap to incentivize multiple clears is that once people hit the new cap they just go back to the same point they were at before – capped out on shards and having no incentive to raid. What would be better is a system that continues to give a decent reward no matter how many times you have cleared. This is actually what we have right now – all clears after the first give the same number of bags of gear and utility backpacks every time. You can question whether this is an adequate reward, but the way it was implemented isn’t bad at all.

And let’s be fair here, if you say the reward for a boss clear should be 1-2 gold then we’re already there, because bags of gear are worth about 20s each (or at least they were last time we checked with a mass opening), and utility backpacks are probably something like 5-10s on average, even discounting the fact that they can (rarely) give ascended boxes. If you clear sabetha and the trash before her you will get what? 7 bags of gear and 3 utility backpacks? which is worth about 1.5g per run. That isn’t horrible, considering an experienced group could easily clear sabetha + trash in under 10 minutes. I mean it isn’t something people are going to farm, but it isn’t god awful

I disagree with your first point. The best groups are able to complete a wing in about 60min, but most normal groups will do it between 1.5 and 2 hours.

To get a full armor

- Raid : 26-52 hours, 13 weeks (Drops can drop these numbers, highly dependent on your group)
- Crafting : 27.5-55 hours, 36 days
- Fractal : average of 27 hours, 8 weeks (RNG can make that vary)

Raid is not a particularly a good way to make ascended armor. Whatever the cap you will put, it will still take the same amount of work to get it, it will just reduce the time gate. Only really good group will be able to get an armor in 26 hours and most of them doesn’t really look for an ascended armor anyway. Most group will still need 52+ hours to get an armor. My point is that you have a lot of room to increase the cap before it can possibly have the effect you talk about.

Your second point have the same problem. When the 3rd wing will hit, just doing once each wing will give you 150 shards in theory (probably around 170 with the guild buff). So until the cap is higher than 150-170, then the problem of incentive grinding won’t exist. It’s just if we go higher than 150-170 that this start to be a thing (when the 3rd wing hit I mean).

For the bags thing, I didn’t really saw it. I mean, I know that I got some bags, but I never really looked at them. We would need to see how much bags you get by doing the complete wing to see how much gold per hour you can make.

Thaddeus.4891:

I disagree with your first point. The best groups are able to complete a wing in about 60min, but most normal groups will do it between 1.5 and 2 hours.

To get a full armor

- Raid : 26-52 hours, 13 weeks (Drops can drop these numbers, highly dependent on your group)
- Crafting : 27.5-55 hours, 36 days
- Fractal : average of 27 hours, 8 weeks (RNG can make that vary)

Raid is not a particularly a good way to make ascended armor. Whatever the cap you will put, it will still take the same amount of work to get it, it will just reduce the time gate. Only really good group will be able to get an armor in 26 hours and most of them doesn’t really look for an ascended armor anyway. Most group will still need 52+ hours to get an armor. My point is that you have a lot of room to increase the cap before it can possibly have the effect you talk about.

Even taking your numbers, if you add all those up that’s an ascended armor set every 18 days on average. And that’s not even counting random drops from raids, open world, and champ bags, and it ignores the fact that if you use your shards and gold efficiently you can get a much better return than what you’re assuming. I said that the devaluing of ascended armor was a smaller issue and I meant it, but this is supposed to be the endgame armor, and you can’t really think that an armor set every 18 days is unfair.

When I started raiding I only had full ascended gear for one character, and now I have it for seven, and I’ve spent a pretty small amount of gold to achieve that (certainly under a thousand). I guess I’m not sure what most people consider a reasonable time frame for getting ascended gear. Most of my characters started out just raiding in exotic armor (my ele had cof armor for like a month lol) and then when I got enough box drops + gold I just made them an ascended set all at once. These characters will never need more ascended armor, so I’m not particularly concerned at the rate that I’m getting it, but maybe others have a different mindset.

Another thing I probably should have mentioned more clearly is that I’m looking toward the future here. The amount of ascended armor available “for free” (i.e. from box drops or from ascended mats in boxes) is only going to increase over time. When there are three wings, the average number of ascended drops from raids will go up by 50%. When a second raid is released – presumably with a new currency – the ascended drops available via raid currencies will double. With how much people have been whining about fotm ascended drops I wouldn’t be surprised to see those go up too.

And it doesn’t really matter for your point, but a good raid group can clear each wing in about 30 minutes, depending on how long they spend kittening around instead of actually fighting the bosses and trash.

Thaddeus.4891:

Your second point have the same problem. When the 3rd wing will hit, just doing once each wing will give you 150 shards in theory (probably around 170 with the guild buff). So until the cap is higher than 150-170, then the problem of incentive grinding won’t exist. It’s just if we go higher than 150-170 that this start to be a thing (when the 3rd wing hit I mean).

Like I said before, the only reason the drop rate for magnetite is at its current level is so that a full clear will get you 100 magnetite. Each wing once only “gives 150 shards in theory” because of the current drop rate, but if the drop rate were as low as it were on release of spirit vale – when magnetite rewards were in fact given as though there were three wings – then the value of a full clear would still be 100 shards. And that is what I would assume is going to happen. The amount of magnetite per encounter has been both raised and lowered in the past – as opposed to the total cap which has remained constant – so the best bet seems to be that the magnetite per encounter will be lowered to compensate.

It’s possible it will be increased, but I doubt it. Boss loot was always intended to be the primary reward for raiding.

Thaddeus.4891:

For the bags thing, I didn’t really saw it. I mean, I know that I got some bags, but I never really looked at them. We would need to see how much bags you get by doing the complete wing to see how much gold per hour you can make.

If you were really truly trying to farm raid bags, you could probably make about 10g an hour from running sabetha and the trash before her. 10g an hour is a pretty crap reward considering the difficulty involved.

I’m actually OK with that though, because raids have a better incentive than gold, which is that they are actually fun lol. I spent most of my time in raids, and I would still do that even if there were no bags of gear rewarded.

Still, I can see why people would want a little more. The problem is that you have to balance both around groups that take hours to kill a single boss and around groups that can clear both wings in under an hour, and it’s really hard to decide what is fair.

Dinosaurs.8674:

Even taking your numbers, if you add all those up that’s an ascended armor set every 18 days on average. And that’s not even counting random drops from raids, open world, and champ bags, and it ignores the fact that if you use your shards and gold efficiently you can get a much better return than what you’re assuming. I said that the devaluing of ascended armor was a smaller issue and I meant it, but this is supposed to be the endgame armor, and you can’t really think that an armor set every 18 days is unfair.

No I don’t think it’s unfair and it was never my point either. My only point is that it’s stupid that completing the 3 wings once will give us 150, but that the cap is 100, meaning that 1 wing of the 3 (the last one you will do) will always give you zero shards. That’s all. They could fix that by putting the cap to 150 or they could limit the drop from boss to around 10 shards, and buff the daily reward to compensate, I don’t really mind. I just don’t to keep the current system, because the raid reward just down grade more and more over time. With the wing 1 gold reward in half and wing 2 that will follow in some months, with most raider having full ascended on most of their character, having already most minis and now one of the wing will give you no shard?

I’m relatively ok with the initial reward of the first wing, but as time by, we get less and less reward.