~Renn~ Jade Quarry – Norn, – Ranger.
Making Dungeons More Enjoyable and Viable
- Nerf FGS.
Oh, wait.
- Nerf berserker builds
- Buff healing and toughness, make supportive builds more important
- Nerf reflection skills
- Nerf warriors
- Nerf eles
- Introduce more puzzles that require at least 4 players, so people will stop soloing dungeons
- Add more immersive npc dialogs in dungeons, like the ones we have in Aether path and in the living story instances, make then unskippable
- Nerf reflection skills
It would require huge mesmer direct damage buff or bb mesmers
i personally veto this suggestion.
i can only imagine that someone would say such things, must be bored of speed clearing Arah within 5 or 10 minutes could even suggest this stuff, while the average person like me, or the thousands of casuals (the people who are the majority and spend more on gems than the rich try-hards who can use their gold for gems), would basically never want to run Arah ever again, at least not without being carried by the OP.
now, i am not against there being new dungeons, and i wouldn’t mind having harder mechanics, to a certain extent, but i already think dungeons offer minimum daily reward as is, especially when you get pug groups or have bad guildies that take 57 minutes on CoE p1 last night, and 65 minutes to pug p2… granted, a decent run is still 18-25 minutes, compared to the 1.55 gold you get per AC path, which average 12-15 minutes p1, 16-20 minutes p2 (if Detha doesn’t bug), and 17-22 minutes p3 (i wish the graveling mounds spawned a second faster or something).
so why, on average, people get AC paths done (without skipping graveling champ after spider queen, nor kholer mind you), i can do those faster than the average group doing HotW p2 and p3, and since the troll revamp, even p1 drags a bit longer than desirable, 15 minute run at best, for 1.05 gold, plus base reward, seems kind of lame, like, before the troll revamp, i wouldn’t mind, but now i feel like the end reward deserves a bit of a raise.
and i don’t care that Snow Crows can do all paths of CM within 3-4 minutes each, my pug runs of CM is varied, and at best, with skipping and decent coordination and composition, it can be as fast as 15-20 minutes per path, 12 minutes on p3 sometimes, but i am not always that lucky, and i’ve had CM runs take 40-70 minutes sometimes with 5-10 full party wipes, so i think a good compromise is gating the trash mobs in CM, but in return for forcing us to die 10 times on the trash, make the end reward 1.55 like AC.
as for SE, i think the end reward is just, though p3 can take a bit, but it’s so popular that most pugs know their role, and you almost always have a guardian or mesmer, and it’s fairly simple overall, though if Anet felt like making aspects of it harder to do stacking, then i would demand a 50 silver raise obviously. as for path 2, something i did once which took me slightly over 3 hours, yeah, 2.05 gold, i demand it, in fact, 2.55 would be more just, and no, i don’t care that Renegatus can do path 2 SE within 20 minutes, and after the FGS most likely gets nerfed after the sept. feature pack, Ren and all those hardcore guilds will most likely cry themselves to sleep that all their speedclears are going to take 3-15 minutes longer. the reason i would ask for 2.55 gold for path 2 SE is because, in my mind, i had more trouble with it than i did TA Aetherpath, so by that logic, is how i based my price, lol. though to be fair, i will settle for 2.05 gold, at the least, but i still might not ever do p2 SE ever again anyway despite the increase.
CoF p1 and p2 are fine more or less, though Magg should be rescripted to be less stupid in the magmacite part, because it does not put the boom in my kaboomium very much indeed, other than that though, p3 really deserves a pay increase, like, at least 1.55 for that path, it requires a step up of coordination and timing that justifies a raise.
Arah, seems fine as is, though if Anet did make Lupi harder and the millions of elite mobs unskippable, i would definitely never do Arah ever again, unless it gave me 6 or 7 gold for all paths except for path 3, which would be fine at 2 or 3 gold if it was harder like this OP was talking about.
finally, CoE has a bit of a learning slope to it, considering my runs vary between 15 minutes, up to 80 minutes if people are just, ugh… please kill me xD so, i think to be fair, 1.55 gold would be reasonable, but if Subject Alpha was unstackable, like the OP is suggesting to make dungeons harder, then i demand 2.05 gold per path. (To Be Continued)…
(Continued)…
i hate to sound like a critic, but if i was part of a game company, and i knew what the average times and difficulty for a dungeon was, and then compare hardcore players to casuals, i would try to find a nice medium, but it seems like Anet works on a complicated basis, like, there are teams who work on stuff, but even though they usually have an idea or change to implement, it feels like they are delayed by their directors, and have to wait to get an “okay” before coming out with stuff. to get to the point of what i am saying, i think that if someone was in charge of balancing dungeon rewards, it seems sad that it takes like a year at a time to even acknowledge bugs, exploits, and reward systems.
i will make my own post going into details of what i think dungeon rewards should be more like, as for acknowledging the rest of the OP’s post, dungeons already have their own skins, which are bought with the tokens earned by doing the dungeon. and finally, there is an end chest, that is the daily reward, and some dungeons have a physical end chest on the ground too, though the RNG for those items tend to be terrible.
- Nerf berserker builds
- Buff healing and toughness, make supportive builds more important
- Nerf reflection skills
- Nerf warriors
- Nerf eles
- Introduce more puzzles that require at least 4 players, so people will stop soloing dungeons
- Add more immersive npc dialogs in dungeons, like the ones we have in Aether path and in the living story instances, make then unskippable
For a second I actually wasn’t sure if you’re trolling, but then I’ve read the last line.
It was quite well done, I’ll admit.
- Nerf reflection skills
It would require huge mesmer direct damage buff or bb mesmers
He’s being sarcastic. I hope.
Give all trash mobs in a elite dungeon to have a chance to drop charged cores/lodestone.
Just like GW1 UW trash farming for Ectos.
http://www.twitch.tv/eco_r_i
Wynd Cloud | Fierce N Licious
Wynd Cloud | Fierce N Licious
Give all trash mobs in a elite dungeon to have a chance to drop charged cores/lodestone.
Just like GW1 UW trash farming for Ectos.
+ Giant Eyes, Silver Doublons, Icy Runestones (make them tradeable), etc.
points 1 and 5 are common “I didn’t really think it through” terrible suggestions.
(edited by Bread.7516)
points 1 and 5 are common “I didn’t really think it through” terrible suggestions.
That’s your opinion, and this thread was made for people to add their points for dungeon improvement in the future.
Don’t have a point?
Don’t post.
~Renn~ Jade Quarry – Norn, – Ranger.
I don’t like the sound of most of your ideas. They do not sound enjoyable or viable at all.
My suggestion, bring back an actual dungeon team anet
points 1 and 5 are common “I didn’t really think it through” terrible suggestions.
That’s your opinion, and this thread was made for people to add their points for dungeon improvement in the future.
Don’t have a point?
Don’t post.
His, and most posters points are that, while ideas 2, 3, and 4 seem to be reasonable, ideas 1 and 5 are not. First, who is “The bandit in arah”? Lupi has some nice “anti-stacking” tactics. It’s also been 2 years with no real updates. People want to burn him down as fast as possible. I’m truly wondering if you have fought Lupi, or Archdiviner, or Mossman, or Melandru (in Arah p4), or any of the slightly more difficult bosses in the game, as your first suggestion doesn’t bode well for your arguments, in that you don’t really understand what you’re talking about.
Your 5th suggestion, the whole anti-skipping thing, has been done to death honestly, and even St. Hrouda answered a question about it. The mobs don’t drop good enough rewards to justify going through and killing all of them. In going back to arah, you do know that many mobs there are actually meant to be skipped, right? Take the spider room- There is a nice golem suit sitting right outside it. That suit isn’t meant to be taken in to kill all the spiders and aboms, it’s meant to facilitate skipping them.
OP, regular posters in this subforum genuinely want dungeons to be better, but your first and fifth posts just won’t work in this game. Sorry. They also open you up to mockery by people who have been running these dungeons and reading these complaints for 2 years.
First, who is “The bandit in arah”?
Alphard prolly.
First, who is “The bandit in arah”?
Alphard prolly.
If this is the case OP, you don’t really know the dungeon at all. She’s got an excellent “anti-stacking” mechanic: Her pull/bomb. Up until recently, it was a 1 shot thing that destroyed pugs (I remember QQing about it myself before I grew a pair). Yes, people can defeat it, but that’s by proper, intended use of game mechanics.
Maybe go to fractals OP, or just pug Arah w/ brand new people. I’m sure you’ll be pleased with the lack of stacking. (You can stack in fractals of course)
I think if they made trash worth killing people would, but from a dungeon tour perspective why would I want to waste time killing adds and taking longer with no stacking when its just the same content over and over and gets no more interesting
First, who is “The bandit in arah”?
Alphard prolly.
Some posts were removed in this thread, and yes he meant alphard, but she’s a pirate not a bandaid.
I actually agree with point one. They need to add some anti-stacking mechanics to Lupi.
For instance, what if he did some really high damage attacks, but only at melee range? You know, like kick or claw at them? And to drive home that players shouldn’t be stacking, the attacks could knock them back 300-600 units. “Go range, folks!” :-) Some adds that swarm the players while they’re knocked down and at like 10% health might be overkill, but ANet could add them if they really wanted to send a message.
Or a giant, like 600 radius area attack where he shoots a hundred of his projectile bolts at about 200 range? It should instadown any player who stays in it, or at least those zerkers (lol, they’re not even proper tanks with that gear, why should they get that close? That’s DPS gear!!). Make it have like a 0.15s tell so that those elitists that rely on abusing evades can’t just easily dodge out of it.
And to really make sure that nobody tries to stack, a giant (like 900 radius) PBAoE attack, powerful enough to down a zerkerburger, could pop up during the fight. To punish those “players” that just want to finish the runs fast instead of having fun, they could make the attack actually heal Lupi back up. I know, I know, I’m evil >:-) But that would just make those grievers who are ruining the game take longer! Man, I hate those guys. >.<
Maybe someone at ANet will read this and realize how easily they can keep cheaters from meleeing and using what they call “combos” (bugged interactions between skills that somehow give them more damage) to exploit Lupi, and finally implement some of these ideas!
(edited by dlonie.6547)
I actually agree with point one. They need to add some anti-stacking mechanics to Lupi.
For instance, what if he did some really high damage attacks, but only at melee range? You know, like kick or claw at them? And to drive home that players shouldn’t be stacking, the attacks could knock them back 300-600 units. “Go range, folks!” :-) Some adds that swarm the players while they’re knocked down and at like 10% health might be overkill, but ANet could add them if they really wanted to send a message.
Or a giant, like 600 radius area attack where he shoots a hundred of his projectile bolts at about 200 range? It should instadown any player who stays in it, or at least those zerkers (lol, they’re not even proper tanks with that gear, why should they get that close? That’s DPS gear!!). Make it have like a 0.15s tell so that those elitists that rely on abusing evades can’t just easily dodge out of it.
And to really make sure that nobody tries to stack, a giant (like 900 radius) PBAoE attack, powerful enough to down a zerkerburger, could pop up during the fight. To punish those “players” that just want to finish the runs fast instead of having fun, they could make the attack actually heal Lupi back up. I know, I know, I’m evil >:-) But that would just make those grievers who are ruining the game take longer! Man, I hate those guys. >.<
Maybe someone at ANet will read this and realize how easily they can keep cheaters from meleeing and using what they call “combos” (bugged interactions between skills that somehow give them more damage) to exploit Lupi, and finally implement some of these ideas!
0.o
-blink-
-blink-
-reads again-
-blink-
- highfives-
I actually agree with point one. They need to add some anti-stacking mechanics to Lupi.
For instance, what if he did some really high damage attacks, but only at melee range? You know, like kick or claw at them? And to drive home that players shouldn’t be stacking, the attacks could knock them back 300-600 units. “Go range, folks!” :-) Some adds that swarm the players while they’re knocked down and at like 10% health might be overkill, but ANet could add them if they really wanted to send a message.
Or a giant, like 600 radius area attack where he shoots a hundred of his projectile bolts at about 200 range? It should instadown any player who stays in it, or at least those zerkers (lol, they’re not even proper tanks with that gear, why should they get that close? That’s DPS gear!!). Make it have like a 0.15s tell so that those elitists that rely on abusing evades can’t just easily dodge out of it.
And to really make sure that nobody tries to stack, a giant (like 900 radius) PBAoE attack, powerful enough to down a zerkerburger, could pop up during the fight. To punish those “players” that just want to finish the runs fast instead of having fun, they could make the attack actually heal Lupi back up. I know, I know, I’m evil >:-) But that would just make those grievers who are ruining the game take longer! Man, I hate those guys. >.<
Maybe someone at ANet will read this and realize how easily they can keep cheaters from meleeing and using what they call “combos” (bugged interactions between skills that somehow give them more damage) to exploit Lupi, and finally implement some of these ideas!
Yes that will teach those elitist noobs not to stack. Its a shame that is currently not in the game. Let’s hope they implement it in the future
I actually agree with point one. They need to add some anti-stacking mechanics to Lupi.
For instance, what if he did some really high damage attacks, but only at melee range? You know, like kick or claw at them? And to drive home that players shouldn’t be stacking, the attacks could knock them back 300-600 units. “Go range, folks!” :-) Some adds that swarm the players while they’re knocked down and at like 10% health might be overkill, but ANet could add them if they really wanted to send a message.
Or a giant, like 600 radius area attack where he shoots a hundred of his projectile bolts at about 200 range? It should instadown any player who stays in it, or at least those zerkers (lol, they’re not even proper tanks with that gear, why should they get that close? That’s DPS gear!!). Make it have like a 0.15s tell so that those elitists that rely on abusing evades can’t just easily dodge out of it.
And to really make sure that nobody tries to stack, a giant (like 900 radius) PBAoE attack, powerful enough to down a zerkerburger, could pop up during the fight. To punish those “players” that just want to finish the runs fast instead of having fun, they could make the attack actually heal Lupi back up. I know, I know, I’m evil >:-) But that would just make those grievers who are ruining the game take longer! Man, I hate those guys. >.<
Maybe someone at ANet will read this and realize how easily they can keep cheaters from meleeing and using what they call “combos” (bugged interactions between skills that somehow give them more damage) to exploit Lupi, and finally implement some of these ideas!
OW I’M SO PROUD OF YOU
/cries uncontrollably
I actually agree with point one. They need to add some anti-stacking mechanics to Lupi.
For instance, what if he did some really high damage attacks, but only at melee range? You know, like kick or claw at them? And to drive home that players shouldn’t be stacking, the attacks could knock them back 300-600 units. “Go range, folks!” :-) Some adds that swarm the players while they’re knocked down and at like 10% health might be overkill, but ANet could add them if they really wanted to send a message.
Or a giant, like 600 radius area attack where he shoots a hundred of his projectile bolts at about 200 range? It should instadown any player who stays in it, or at least those zerkers (lol, they’re not even proper tanks with that gear, why should they get that close? That’s DPS gear!!). Make it have like a 0.15s tell so that those elitists that rely on abusing evades can’t just easily dodge out of it.
And to really make sure that nobody tries to stack, a giant (like 900 radius) PBAoE attack, powerful enough to down a zerkerburger, could pop up during the fight. To punish those “players” that just want to finish the runs fast instead of having fun, they could make the attack actually heal Lupi back up. I know, I know, I’m evil >:-) But that would just make those grievers who are ruining the game take longer! Man, I hate those guys. >.<
Maybe someone at ANet will read this and realize how easily they can keep cheaters from meleeing and using what they call “combos” (bugged interactions between skills that somehow give them more damage) to exploit Lupi, and finally implement some of these ideas!
Obviously this needs to be copy pasted more often from now on.
I actually agree with point one. They need to add some anti-stacking mechanics to Lupi.
For instance, what if he did some really high damage attacks, but only at melee range? You know, like kick or claw at them? And to drive home that players shouldn’t be stacking, the attacks could knock them back 300-600 units. “Go range, folks!” :-) Some adds that swarm the players while they’re knocked down and at like 10% health might be overkill, but ANet could add them if they really wanted to send a message.
Or a giant, like 600 radius area attack where he shoots a hundred of his projectile bolts at about 200 range? It should instadown any player who stays in it, or at least those zerkers (lol, they’re not even proper tanks with that gear, why should they get that close? That’s DPS gear!!). Make it have like a 0.15s tell so that those elitists that rely on abusing evades can’t just easily dodge out of it.
And to really make sure that nobody tries to stack, a giant (like 900 radius) PBAoE attack, powerful enough to down a zerkerburger, could pop up during the fight. To punish those “players” that just want to finish the runs fast instead of having fun, they could make the attack actually heal Lupi back up. I know, I know, I’m evil >:-) But that would just make those grievers who are ruining the game take longer! Man, I hate those guys. >.<
Maybe someone at ANet will read this and realize how easily they can keep cheaters from meleeing and using what they call “combos” (bugged interactions between skills that somehow give them more damage) to exploit Lupi, and finally implement some of these ideas!
I agree.
Inactive member in Dark Renegatus [REN]
The Order of Calamity [OOC] is recruiting!
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The Order of Calamity [OOC] is recruiting!
5/8 Champion titles
I actually agree with point one. They need to add some anti-stacking mechanics to Lupi.
For instance, what if he did some really high damage attacks, but only at melee range? You know, like kick or claw at them? And to drive home that players shouldn’t be stacking, the attacks could knock them back 300-600 units. “Go range, folks!” :-) Some adds that swarm the players while they’re knocked down and at like 10% health might be overkill, but ANet could add them if they really wanted to send a message.
Or a giant, like 600 radius area attack where he shoots a hundred of his projectile bolts at about 200 range? It should instadown any player who stays in it, or at least those zerkers (lol, they’re not even proper tanks with that gear, why should they get that close? That’s DPS gear!!). Make it have like a 0.15s tell so that those elitists that rely on abusing evades can’t just easily dodge out of it.
And to really make sure that nobody tries to stack, a giant (like 900 radius) PBAoE attack, powerful enough to down a zerkerburger, could pop up during the fight. To punish those “players” that just want to finish the runs fast instead of having fun, they could make the attack actually heal Lupi back up. I know, I know, I’m evil >:-) But that would just make those grievers who are ruining the game take longer! Man, I hate those guys. >.<
Maybe someone at ANet will read this and realize how easily they can keep cheaters from meleeing and using what they call “combos” (bugged interactions between skills that somehow give them more damage) to exploit Lupi, and finally implement some of these ideas!
Hire this man.
….LOL
Hrouda ily.
[ARES]
And all who stood by and did nothing, who are they to criticize the sacrifices of others?
Our blood has bought their lives.
And all who stood by and did nothing, who are they to criticize the sacrifices of others?
Our blood has bought their lives.
How many of you guys kill the mini destroyer crablings in coe p3 for vicious claws? I know I always do because killing them is worth.
http://www.twitch.tv/eco_r_i
Wynd Cloud | Fierce N Licious
Wynd Cloud | Fierce N Licious
If you dont full clear you are exploiting.
How many of you guys kill the mini destroyer crablings in coe p3 for vicious claws? I know I always do because killing them is worth.
I definitely do. With 1 single dagger fire 3.
[ARES]
And all who stood by and did nothing, who are they to criticize the sacrifices of others?
Our blood has bought their lives.
And all who stood by and did nothing, who are they to criticize the sacrifices of others?
Our blood has bought their lives.
My first point was written poorly, what I mean’t was dungeons need anti stacking mechanics such as those used by Lupi etc.
~Renn~ Jade Quarry – Norn, – Ranger.
points 1 and 5 are common “I didn’t really think it through” terrible suggestions.
That’s your opinion, and this thread was made for people to add their points for dungeon improvement in the future.
Don’t have a point?
Don’t post.
Stop me.
Attacking stacking by itself is a dumb idea and adds more cheap gimmicks. It isn’t even the problem by itself. Want better combat? 1 word: zoning.
Room by room gating adds to linearity of the game (aetherpath). It can work in other games, but the way anet uses it and your literal interpretation is undesirable; forced gating without context and used outside as a complementing role is a bad idea.
Bad ideas are bad – this is the point.
(edited by Bread.7516)
Some points I think need to put out there in simple form for the devs (if they read this)
Please feel free to add points- Anti stacking mechanics for bosses (Lupicus, the bandit in Arah,
- End chest (reason to run the dungeon, e.g.: GW1 Green (boss weapon) (pvp are getting pvp only skins, how about dungeons get dungeon only weapons)
- More dungeons (obviously)
- Harder dungeons needing more player (8 & 10 mans) (no Im not an ex WoW player, I’m thinking of UW and FoW in GW1)
- Gates, conditions of passage to minimise to skipping of “trash” mobs. The dungeons shouldn’t be about rushing and killing bosses, “trash” mobs after all can drop good loot
Will add more as I think of them however typing this at Uni so better get back to study! lol
Your proposals would not make dungeons more enjoyable. It would frustrate people more and make them much more restrictive in terms of builds needed to tackle them. (ie more elitism in lfg requirements)
People like you need to realize the simple fact that dungeons are not enjoyable for the simple fact that nothing is enjoyable after repeating 1 million times and the only thing you can do to make it less of a chore is to make it faster, not more tedious.
My first point was written poorly, what I mean’t was dungeons need anti stacking mechanics such as those used by Lupi etc.
Yeah, sorry for the snark, just having a bit of fun :-) Wasn’t really directed at you, just trying to level up my PvF sarcasm tree, lol
I honestly like some of your ideas, but the way point 1 came off….I just couldn’t resist xD
But point 5…..just no. Please no. Adding more time gates or mob counters in the existing dungeons will kill them. We speed run because we’re bored. Making us sit around or grind mobs to get through the dungeons isn’t going to add any fun to the experience, only frustration and tedium. And what “good loot” do trash mobs drop? All I ever get are a ton of blues and greens, maybe a rare, and once in a blue moon, an exotic that sells for 1g, if I’m lucky (this is with ~150%MF).
(edited by dlonie.6547)
In a perfect game world, I like the suggestions the OP has, but I think there is a better way to address the core issue.
For most people, the issue is time vs reward. For them, dungeons are no longer about enjoying the fights or teamwork – they are about getting in and getting out with as much loot as possible. Its hard to criticize them for this attitude. The dungeons we have now perpetuate and reward that kind of gameplay.
Unfortunately, it can make dungeons less enjoyable for new players or those who do want more detailed fights simply because it becomes harder to find groups.
Ive made this suggestion elsewhere, but here it is again. What we really needs is shorter, more challenging content for 5 man groups that offers a decent, repeatable (once a day probably) reward.
The perfect solution (to me, anyway) would be something similar to the living story instances we see every two weeks, only designed for a party. If we had one instance every two weeks (or even once a month) that was about the length of a current living story instance step, then dungeon runners would continually have something fresh to do. It would bring excitement back to running in 5 player groups and directly address the issue dungeon vets have (wanting something short and rewarding). As for development resources, it shouldnt be too demanding – again, it would just be one instance (alongside all of the single player instances) associated with the living story.
Again, this is just an idea.
I think, outside of a complete overhaul, the current dungeons (except for possibly Aetherpath – which is currently the most enjoyable thing in game, imo) will remain primarily as loot farms for speed runners – and offer little ongoing enjoyment in the long run. Shorter, more frequently updated, content would scratch that itch nicely.
(edited by Blaeys.3102)