Guild Wars 2

Hello,

I play thief, ele and guard for PvE, and I’ve recently noticed that the builds on metabattle are not identical with the ones in the GW2 forums. Namely Obal’s and DEKeyzToChaos’. To be more specific: sigils. To be even more specific: universal day-time sigils. (So NOT monster-slaying sigils but those that are viable for any daytime content.) Obal suggests accuracy, strength and fraility (depending on build/group setup/weapon/etc.) and DEKeyz suggests strength and bloodlust for D/F ele. While metabattle goes all the way with fraility sigils. So which is the correct information? (For slow-hitting weapons fraility sigils dont look so appealing to me. Maybe good for my thief though…)

Frailty will lose it’s effectiveness as you get more vuln stacking, if your group is able to maintain vuln without it then there’s no point. Probably solid in most PUG groups, pretty meaningless in many premade groups.

That’s why you need to read guides that explain when to use what, and how to choose

HINT

All right, thank you guys!

Zelyhn Lekovitch.2867:

That’s why you need to read guides that explain when to use what, and how to choose

HINT

Do you happen to have the same guidance for thieves and guardians too?

I am afraid those classes are not my area of expertise
But my rT friends have surely made a good job at explaining the efficient choices on Dufy’s website. Also, once you have understood the mind process behind the efficient decisions for one class you can easily master any other by applying the same core concepts. Best of luck!

Nimrud.5642:

All right, thank you guys!

Zelyhn Lekovitch.2867:

That’s why you need to read guides that explain when to use what, and how to choose

HINT

Do you happen to have the same guidance for thieves and guardians too?

Frailty, how is the group’s vuln stacking? Is their room for this to really take effect? If you have an engi, probably not, if you have an Ele and it’s a lower level dungeon or fast kills in general, probably not.

Strength, How is the groups might stacking? Do you have a good Ele or a PS war? Then no, if not, might be a good idea if it’ll give you might but not be wasted attempting to go over cap.

Accuracy, 20% from Fury, 8% from banner (or about that), 6-7%(?) from spotter, depending on what you have you’ll want. As long as you’re not capping yourself it’s a nice addition. Assuming spotter is 7% you’ll cap at 65-80% depending on boons. Guardian you’ll usually have room for this, Thief you have the signet and your builds are usually max in prec tree so you’ll be more likely to hit the cap than most.

That’s the general idea I believe, please correct me if I’m wrong and anyone knows better. More or less I went Accuracy on guard becuase I can’t go wrong with it, while the other two are a waste depending on my group setup. Thief I’m not sure as none of them seem quite so ideal with the high prec (esp since my thief is geared poorly and I never bothered to swap out his assassin stat stuff).

Nimrud.5642:

Hello,

I play thief, ele and guard for PvE, and I’ve recently noticed that the builds on metabattle are not identical with the ones in the GW2 forums. Namely Obal’s and DEKeyzToChaos’. To be more specific: sigils. To be even more specific: universal day-time sigils. (So NOT monster-slaying sigils but those that are viable for any daytime content.) Obal suggests accuracy, strength and fraility (depending on build/group setup/weapon/etc.) and DEKeyz suggests strength and bloodlust for D/F ele. While metabattle goes all the way with fraility sigils. So which is the correct information? (For slow-hitting weapons fraility sigils dont look so appealing to me. Maybe good for my thief though…)

There is no right or wrong here. The only matter is which one is the most efficient in your case. Frailty is cheap and vulnerability stacking is universally useful in any casual groups. Accuracy is helpful when you have to use build that deviates far from the Precision trait line. It is pretty much useless on classes that stack precision like mesmer or engi. Battle is good for builds that cannot self-stack might and strength for fast hitting weapon skills and a cheaper alternative. Bloodlust is good against waves of trashmobs. Other than that, just go with different slaying sigil. 2 silver or so per use.

Iris Ng.9845:

Nimrud.5642:

Hello,

I play thief, ele and guard for PvE, and I’ve recently noticed that the builds on metabattle are not identical with the ones in the GW2 forums. Namely Obal’s and DEKeyzToChaos’. To be more specific: sigils. To be even more specific: universal day-time sigils. (So NOT monster-slaying sigils but those that are viable for any daytime content.) Obal suggests accuracy, strength and fraility (depending on build/group setup/weapon/etc.) and DEKeyz suggests strength and bloodlust for D/F ele. While metabattle goes all the way with fraility sigils. So which is the correct information? (For slow-hitting weapons fraility sigils dont look so appealing to me. Maybe good for my thief though…)

There is no right or wrong here. The only matter is which one is the most efficient in your case. Frailty is cheap and vulnerability stacking is universally useful in any casual groups. Accuracy is helpful when you have to use build that deviates far from the Precision trait line. It is pretty much useless on classes that stack precision like mesmer or engi. Battle is good for builds that cannot self-stack might and strength for fast hitting weapon skills and a cheaper alternative. Bloodlust is good against waves of trashmobs. Other than that, just go with different slaying sigil. 2 silver or so per use.

Just had to mention, there’s still some room on Engi unless you’re grouping with a ranger, personally I rarely do that (not a choice thing just doesn’t happen /shrug). So I use accuracy on my general purpose rifle. I have a night/force exotic for most dungeons, force/accuracy ascended, and I was going to craft another ascended just for force/undead for arah, but then I kinda stopped playing for a while.

metabattle… lol

Never bother with bloodlust on an ele now. Ever since the change to stacking sigils where you can’t keep them when you swap weapons they haven’t been worth using on any class, aside from those that can weapon swap and are attempting something like a specific boss record in Arah (i.e. Lupicus solo on a warrior).

For the best ele guide, use this one Best Elementalist Guide.

The other class guides on this website were all written by different members of rT who specialize in the professions and are all great too. Tons of detail were put into all of them and if you still have any questions after reading any of them, try contacting the authors. Their account names are listed at the bottom in the last section. They’d be happy to hear your feedback and answer any unanswered questions you may have!

You guys vastly underestimate Frailty. Even if Frailty contributes only one stack of Vulnerability, it is already producing significantly more DPS than Strength or Accuracy or Air or Fire or whatever else people use. Sure, you won’t always need the Vuln, but the times you do, and it contributes 3 or more Vuln make up for the times you don’t. And I would guess in daytime dungeons where most people don’t use slayer sigils for casual runs (CM, HotW) Vuln is needed in most of the boss fights, at least one stack.

Jerus.4350:

Iris Ng.9845:

Nimrud.5642:

Hello,

I play thief, ele and guard for PvE, and I’ve recently noticed that the builds on metabattle are not identical with the ones in the GW2 forums. Namely Obal’s and DEKeyzToChaos’. To be more specific: sigils. To be even more specific: universal day-time sigils. (So NOT monster-slaying sigils but those that are viable for any daytime content.) Obal suggests accuracy, strength and fraility (depending on build/group setup/weapon/etc.) and DEKeyz suggests strength and bloodlust for D/F ele. While metabattle goes all the way with fraility sigils. So which is the correct information? (For slow-hitting weapons fraility sigils dont look so appealing to me. Maybe good for my thief though…)

There is no right or wrong here. The only matter is which one is the most efficient in your case. Frailty is cheap and vulnerability stacking is universally useful in any casual groups. Accuracy is helpful when you have to use build that deviates far from the Precision trait line. It is pretty much useless on classes that stack precision like mesmer or engi. Battle is good for builds that cannot self-stack might and strength for fast hitting weapon skills and a cheaper alternative. Bloodlust is good against waves of trashmobs. Other than that, just go with different slaying sigil. 2 silver or so per use.

Just had to mention, there’s still some room on Engi unless you’re grouping with a ranger, personally I rarely do that (not a choice thing just doesn’t happen /shrug). So I use accuracy on my general purpose rifle. I have a night/force exotic for most dungeons, force/accuracy ascended, and I was going to craft another ascended just for force/undead for arah, but then I kinda stopped playing for a while.

I would rated battle far better than accuracy based on my experience with horrible pugs. But again if you are in a decent group that has a certain thing covered, it’s only natural and logical to reach for the other options.

I myself also use frailty when I pug with guard, for the simple fact that I don’t trust pugs to know how to stack vuln and burst with lightning storm. Even worse, some would range the encounter the whole time. My POV is the same, adjust your build/equipment to your group’s need.

Jerus.4350:

Iris Ng.9845:

Nimrud.5642:

Hello,

I play thief, ele and guard for PvE, and I’ve recently noticed that the builds on metabattle are not identical with the ones in the GW2 forums. Namely Obal’s and DEKeyzToChaos’. To be more specific: sigils. To be even more specific: universal day-time sigils. (So NOT monster-slaying sigils but those that are viable for any daytime content.) Obal suggests accuracy, strength and fraility (depending on build/group setup/weapon/etc.) and DEKeyz suggests strength and bloodlust for D/F ele. While metabattle goes all the way with fraility sigils. So which is the correct information? (For slow-hitting weapons fraility sigils dont look so appealing to me. Maybe good for my thief though…)

There is no right or wrong here. The only matter is which one is the most efficient in your case. Frailty is cheap and vulnerability stacking is universally useful in any casual groups. Accuracy is helpful when you have to use build that deviates far from the Precision trait line. It is pretty much useless on classes that stack precision like mesmer or engi. Battle is good for builds that cannot self-stack might and strength for fast hitting weapon skills and a cheaper alternative. Bloodlust is good against waves of trashmobs. Other than that, just go with different slaying sigil. 2 silver or so per use.

Just had to mention, there’s still some room on Engi unless you’re grouping with a ranger, personally I rarely do that (not a choice thing just doesn’t happen /shrug). So I use accuracy on my general purpose rifle. I have a night/force exotic for most dungeons, force/accuracy ascended, and I was going to craft another ascended just for force/undead for arah, but then I kinda stopped playing for a while.

I end up usign battle/strenght on my engi. With strenght runes that is a 25 stacks of might. Great for soloing or pugging.

Unless your capping out on vuln reliably frailty is a good choice for 1h guardian weapons. The reason to take frailty or strength is that you will cap out with accuracy on the 1h weapons between all the buffs + right hand strength. There’s not much else to use when your capped out on crit, it’s day, and slaying sigils aren’t going to help or you need a ton of sets.

hybrid.5027:

You guys vastly underestimate Frailty. Even if Frailty contributes only one stack of Vulnerability, it is already producing significantly more DPS than Strength or Accuracy or Air or Fire or whatever else people use. Sure, you won’t always need the Vuln, but the times you do, and it contributes 3 or more Vuln make up for the times you don’t. And I would guess in daytime dungeons where most people don’t use slayer sigils for casual runs (CM, HotW) Vuln is needed in most of the boss fights, at least one stack.

3 or more vulnerability stacks don’t sound reliable. Against bosses you get 5 s base duration and depending on how unshakable works +30% duration gives 6.5 s or 8 s (anyone knows or can test?).

Optimally with 2 s ICD that maxes out with 2.5, 3.25 or 4 stacks.

With 2 hits per second (0.5 s attacks) on average you hit 0.25 s after ICD ends. With 50% chance you need on average one additional hit which gives total ICD of 2.75 s.

With more realistic ICD you get 1.8, 2.4 and 2.9 stacks.

For how cheap it is frailty is an amazing option. For daytime encounters I have my force/x set which lets me go slaying when its applicable, and swap to frailty for stuff like aetherblade/molten fractals which don’t have a slaying sigil available. Trying to do that with strength or battle sigils would be cost prohibitive. (at least for me :x)

It’s good. Not denying that.

Ah yeah, I wasn’t posting as a counter to yours, you posted as I was typing so I didn’t see it. >.< I was just pointing out that frailty is a nice option even for people like me who DO lug around undead/justice/icebrood/svanir etc. sigils.

rfdarko.4639:

Ah yeah, I wasn’t posting as a counter to yours, you posted as I was typing so I didn’t see it. >.< I was just pointing out that frailty is a nice option even for people like me who DO lug around undead/justice/icebrood/svanir etc. sigils.

I pretty much settle down to have both Justice and Undead Slaying weapons on my guard, thief and ele because I like these two dungeons the most ^^ And Frailty is for when I cannot afford another force sigil. So it would be Slaying+Frailty combo.

I personally swap between frailty/undead slaying/justice sigils depending on what I’m doing.

For my warrior in particular, I have a GS with night+force and another GS with undead slaying+force. If I’m doing FotM and get cliffside I am usually either soloing/duoing/trioing or something and will swap the sigil of justice over the GS with undead slaying and do the same with my axe that has undead slaying.

Otherwise I swap the GS to frailty+force if it’s say, molten fractal for example. I just stay with my force axe if it’s day however.

I personally don’t really find frailty to be that big of a deal honestly because out of all the variables that can come into play to affect the time of a kill, that is pretty much the least significant one. I’ve had runs where I accidentally left my night GS on and hardly noticed.

It’s a good sigil but it shouldn’t be hyped at all really. I also don’t bother with using them at all on my ele ever. I’m not sure about guards since I don’t play them, but in groups I don’t notice any issue at all with vuln on bosses as long as there’s 1 ele with lightning storm because most of the time they’ll die fairly quickly unless it’s like… archdiviner or something.

I seem to always roll molten/aetherblade so maybe I’m over-valuing it’s actual use. XD And ascalon. Although I was told that ghost slaying works on the mobs in that fractal but I haven’t gone in and tested it properly.

rfdarko.4639:

Ah yeah, I wasn’t posting as a counter to yours, you posted as I was typing so I didn’t see it. >.< I was just pointing out that frailty is a nice option even for people like me who DO lug around undead/justice/icebrood/svanir etc. sigils.

Yeah I suspected that but my post needed that clarification.

Anyways, when in doubt, gw2dungeons.net is your best friend.

When someone somewhere call his builds colection “meta” doesnt mean those are automaticky all best builds around.

It’s called “meta” because it’s the best for most people. Most builds there wasn’t invented by the site owner but copypastarino from other credited sources, usually well known players of the class.

hybrid.5027:

You guys vastly underestimate Frailty. Even if Frailty contributes only one stack of Vulnerability, it is already producing significantly more DPS than Strength or Accuracy or Air or Fire or whatever else people use. Sure, you won’t always need the Vuln, but the times you do, and it contributes 3 or more Vuln make up for the times you don’t. And I would guess in daytime dungeons where most people don’t use slayer sigils for casual runs (CM, HotW) Vuln is needed in most of the boss fights, at least one stack.

Are you really gaining that little from Accuracy?… interesting

I play my engi mostly lately and the crit chance seemed like a decent idea, with it i’d also gain some vuln stacking with precise sights… would you still say frailty wins out?

Iris Ng.9845:

It’s called “meta” because it’s the best for most people. Most builds there wasn’t invented by the site owner but copypastarino from other credited sources, usually well known players of the class.

That moment when meaning of Meta change from “most effective” to “user friendly”

Rozbuska.5263:

Iris Ng.9845:

It’s called “meta” because it’s the best for most people. Most builds there wasn’t invented by the site owner but copypastarino from other credited sources, usually well known players of the class.

That moment when meaning of Meta change from “most effective” to “user friendly”

The meta engi build is certainly less user friendly than your bomb kit build.

spoj.9672:

Rozbuska.5263:

Iris Ng.9845:

It’s called “meta” because it’s the best for most people. Most builds there wasn’t invented by the site owner but copypastarino from other credited sources, usually well known players of the class.

That moment when meaning of Meta change from “most effective” to “user friendly”

The meta engi build is certainly less user friendly than your bomb kit build.

Well “engi meta build” is just an example of what I am talking about. I cant say its bad build but far from most effective. And as you said rotation is unneccessary complicated.
Now some noob copy it and is ofc very bad in playing it (sure he dont forget to tell you its meta so he dont even try something different) so he make even worse name for all engineers. And then ppl wanna kick you from speed run “because engi low dps” and its incredibly hard to convince them that engi has 2nd best dps in game because only thing they see around are meta builds what didnt reach max dps even if you run that overcomplicated rotation like a boss.

Guang-math-detected. Turbo-mode engaged!

Rozbuska.5263:

spoj.9672:

Rozbuska.5263:

Iris Ng.9845:

It’s called “meta” because it’s the best for most people. Most builds there wasn’t invented by the site owner but copypastarino from other credited sources, usually well known players of the class.

That moment when meaning of Meta change from “most effective” to “user friendly”

The meta engi build is certainly less user friendly than your bomb kit build.

Well “engi meta build” is just an example of what I am talking about. I cant say its bad build but far from most effective. And as you said rotation is unneccessary complicated.
Now some noob copy it and is ofc very bad in playing it (sure he dont forget to tell you its meta so he dont even try something different) so he make even worse name for all engineers. And then ppl wanna kick you from speed run “because engi low dps” and its incredibly hard to convince them that engi has 2nd best dps in game because only thing they see around are meta builds what didnt reach max dps even if you run that overcomplicated rotation like a boss.

I asked your build and rotation, long ago, in another post… Still waiting.
I would love to test your build on the mist golem.
Thank you very much.

His build is in his sig. But no idea what his rotation is. Might be in his sig aswell. But im too lazy to read and i dont play engi enough to care.

Oh, you are right. I’ll check tomorrow.

EDIT: I did a quick test. Damage wise… I really can’t tell, the golem was being pushed too much to perform a reliable rotation. It hits hard tho.
What is noticiable is:
1) the rotation is not that easy (specially cause firefield from bomb#2 is quite short).
2)Less might and vuln compared to meta build.
3) It lacks all the utlity from EG.
So the metabuild (and I assuming same dps) supports far better the group.

I dont really understand the toolkit. Elixir gun would give more dps. Then its basically just the old meta build but with static discharge and no nade kit or nade traits. Maybe more damage per hit but as you said you lose vuln. And everyone knows you dont take an engi for pure damage. If you wanted pure damage you would just take an ele.

Noob question: How to cancel the push back effect by EG?

Drop bundle i believe. Its a little weird to get used to though.

Ryn.6459:

I asked your build and rotation, long ago, in another post… Still waiting.
I would love to test your build on the mist golem.
Thank you very much.

Sry I post in multiple forums and often not read all responses so better whisp me here or in game:-) My basic rotation (without pre mightstacking rotation ect) is Blunderbuss→ Jumpshot→Pry Bar and spam bomb 1. SD skills everytime when they are on CD.

Spoj: Toolkit and Mines are optional. I even often run 6/6/0/0/2 with bombs/nades/eg (or bombs/nades/mines) in TA and SE where its more effective. But for example in CoE is better have toolkit for block and you can block golem spin and continue dps without dodging out and coming back so you dont lose dps. Its maybe silly use mostly bomb 1 but first it hits for 10k and second even there are skills with bit better dps you lose dps while switching kits so not much difference. And ofc its much more mistakeproof when you using less skills.

All content in this game is sadly designed for pure dps so sacrificing dps for some extra utility can looks cool but imo its just tame wasting.

Thats not really much different from whats on meta battle. Except you miss out on some dps boosts by taking tool kit when you dont need it.

For the record when people were advocating the meta engi build as that one with condi duration etc. We in rT were going full dps. Its just now that max dps is achieved slightly differently now.

spoj.9672:

Drop bundle i believe. Its a little weird to get used to though.

It didn’t work for me. I tried both swapping kits and dropping bundles right after using the skills.

I don’t really believe that additional blocks are needed in coe.

obal.3218:

Unless your capping out on vuln reliably frailty is a good choice for 1h guardian weapons. The reason to take frailty or strength is that you will cap out with accuracy on the 1h weapons between all the buffs + right hand strength. There’s not much else to use when your capped out on crit, it’s day, and slaying sigils aren’t going to help or you need a ton of sets.

Just on the spot… ty!

Iris Ng.9845:

spoj.9672:

Drop bundle i believe. Its a little weird to get used to though.

It didn’t work for me. I tried both swapping kits and dropping bundles right after using the skills.

The swap button. A matter of timming. I can show you if you want. But is just that.

Here http://www.dtguilds.com/forum/m/6563292/viewthread/15386797-optimal-dps-rotation

Lendruil.9061:

I don’t really believe that additional blocks are needed in coe.

They dont but when you use them in right time your overall dps on boss will be higher:-)

How can you compare the DPS of any engie build not using Acid Bomb to one that does?

Acid Bomb is a 100 blades that allows you to continue attacking while it does it’s damage. Imagine warrior hundred blades allowing you to do an axe auto chain during the 100b cast. That’s insane. Especially in short fights where burst damage matters most being able to acid bomb + jump shot + blunderbuss is an insane burst. There is no comparison in terms of DPS, even if your tool kit build was better DPS in other regards it would still be far worse as a result of not using acid bomb.

Metabattle is pretty good for builds and is a faster to load, easier to read, easier to remember website than DnT’s pages. Still, Metabattle has no information on proper rotations, so I youtube one of the DnT videos for that information when it changes.

All said, though, if Metabattle is off in any way, the people most qualified to change the builds are the people talking in this thread, so I would suggest they address any inadequacies and get Metabattle on par.

Ryn.6459:

Iris Ng.9845:

spoj.9672:

Drop bundle i believe. Its a little weird to get used to though.

It didn’t work for me. I tried both swapping kits and dropping bundles right after using the skills.

The swap button. A matter of timming. I can show you if you want. But is just that.

Here http://www.dtguilds.com/forum/m/6563292/viewthread/15386797-optimal-dps-rotation

^^ This.

Also you’ll want to wait about a quarter seconds before swapping, make sure your feet leave the ground then swap. If you do it too soon you cancel the ability and wasted your time and still put it on a 3s reuse. If you do it too late you go flying back.

Takes a bit to learn and master but it’s quite effective if you can pull it off… but it’s also pretty prone to issues when dealing with lag so sometimes I find myself swapping it out if I can’t get it to cooperate…at those times I cry a little because I usually have issues with flame blast/detonate as well and then I’m down to just my nades and I go to bomb kit and some other utility thing knowing I’m running much less efficient damage… but better than flying away with failed cancels or simply not getting anything out of both EG and FT.

Rising Dusk.2408:

All said, though, if Metabattle is off in any way, the people most qualified to change the builds are the people talking in this thread, so I would suggest they address any inadequacies and get Metabattle on par.

Exactly. What people don’t get is that build pages are not set in stone. The forum community can have a debate lasting for days about a single sigil (happened multiple times), but nobody would spend 20 seconds to actually do something about it. Expressing concerns at a build’s discussion page instead of here is simply more effective, as chances are, it will go unnoticed here.

The site’s only as good as the contributors. If hardcore dungeoneers would want to contribute to the community effort, we could have more builds in the Dungeon section, more options for customization, better guides, maybe other categories too like soloing.

Metabattle is a build wiki afterall. It’s not like the DnT forum for example, where everyone else is simply a visitor – if you have a deeper understanding of something PvE/WvW/PvP related, this is the perfect place for you to publish guides and upload builds. If you’re a decent youtuber or streamer, you can also embed videos / add links to your channel to pages, which obviously expands your audience as the site already has a daily traffic of ~10-15k and is rapidly increasing.