We have no problems with players using a 3rd party tool whose scope is only to collect and visualize combat data gathered directly from the game client. Anything beyond that scope is still considered a violation of the User Agreement.
Im ok with not having gear check but what about boon uptime as well as what if theres that 1 bad tempest or whatever that has really bad dps and drags the group if doesnt want to improve am i or anyone allowed to kick him from the group?
We have no problems with players using a 3rd party tool whose scope is only to collect and visualize combat data gathered directly from the game client. Anything beyond that scope is still considered a violation of the User Agreement.
That’s good news. A “meter” that does gear inspection isn’t a “meter” anymore.
We have no problems with players using a 3rd party tool whose scope is only to collect and visualize combat data gathered directly from the game client. Anything beyond that scope is still considered a violation of the User Agreement.
That’s good news. A “meter” that does gear inspection isn’t a “meter” anymore.
did you even bother reading it? ppl asked about gear checking and it got adressed….
We have no problems with players using a 3rd party tool whose scope is only to collect and visualize combat data gathered directly from the game client. Anything beyond that scope is still considered a violation of the User Agreement.
That’s good news. A “meter” that does gear inspection isn’t a “meter” anymore.
did you even bother reading it? ppl asked about gear checking and it got adressed….
I read it. They don’t like gear checking and I said that’s good news because gear checking isn’t what a meter should do. A meter should only collect combat data, and the devs are fine with that, which is also good news.
Seems pretty clear now. Good that they made the ruling. Even if i personally am not a fan of damage meters, keeping it in gray area wasn’t good for the game.
Though, as i understand, the dps meter used most by the community will need to be changed (and some of the functions disabled) to be fully legit.
Actions, not words.
Remember, remember, 15th of November
LI requirement crap wasn’t causing enough toxicity, let’s officially support another toxic tool!!!
You dare to rez someone → lose dps – get kicked.
You dare to run off with aoe/out of aoe so you don’t take dmg → lose dps → get kicked!
Welcome to WoW raiding guize, where mods are allowed and dps meters forced absolutely selfish and suicidal gameplay.
Im ok with not having gear check but what about boon uptime as well as what if theres that 1 bad tempest or whatever that has really bad dps and drags the group if doesnt want to improve am i or anyone allowed to kick him from the group?
This is fantastic news, especially for guilds like my own who are progressing, and sometimes can not identify where the problems are. I really appreciate this, and I am going to have to buy something from the gem store to show my appreciation (maybe max out shared inven slots?).
With that said, we also need to make sure we use this tool the right way. Anet clearly does care about the type of community it creates, and they are trusting us to do this the right way. The majority of us already know what this means. Kicking bad players is a necessary evil, but we can do it respectfully. We can provide constructive criticism and we can help the community grow in all regards. No matter what, we can not let ourselves devolve into trash talking/harassing/bullying bad players, or we could lose this tool.
Is anybody in the mood to send me a PM with the link/name of the actual dps-meter ppl are using in GW2?
Now that it is allowed to use I would like to see the comparison myself in my groups!
This is fantastic news, especially for guilds like my own who are progressing, and sometimes can not identify where the problems are. I really appreciate this, and I am going to have to buy something from the gem store to show my appreciation (maybe max out shared inven slots?).
With that said, we also need to make sure we use this tool the right way. Anet clearly does care about the type of community it creates, and they are trusting us to do this the right way. The majority of us already know what this means. Kicking bad players is a necessary evil, but we can do it respectfully. We can provide constructive criticism and we can help the community grow in all regards. No matter what, we can not let ourselves devolve into trash talking/harassing/bullying bad players, or we could lose this tool.
This is already happening thanks to LI, i don’t see how dps meters would make it any better.
You have too much faith in community which showed many times over past years that you cannot put trust in it. The beauty of gw2 was that it didn’t allow 3rd party software but guess new devs want wow clone.
Is anybody in the mood to send me a PM with the link/name of the actual dps-meter ppl are using in GW2?
Now that it is allowed to use I would like to see the comparison myself in my groups!
Here’s a hint. It’s the same name as the NPC that helps you in the new nightmare fractal.
I do not know if i can name it directly. So thats all i can do for you.
This is already happening thanks to LI, i don’t see how dps meters would make it any better.
You have too much faith in community which showed many times over past years that you cannot put trust in it. The beauty of gw2 was that it didn’t allow 3rd party software but guess new devs want wow clone.
I see a great community, that taught me all the raids, and now I feedback into it and help teach them. dps meters make it better because there is no more guess work. If some beginner with low ap, 5 LI, and exotic gear tries to join, and says they know what they are doing, they can prove it and earn a spot. Making players ping LI is a result of bad players trying to join good groups to get carried, rather than creating their own progression group.
I have seen so many things like this. For example, advertising in the lfg for an experienced group needing a dps and a ps joins because ‘ps is dps’, or something stupid like that. Groups put up requirements, because other people lie. With dps meters, we can quickly identify these issues, fix them and move on, rather than spend 30 minutes wiping because we don’t have the dps for no updrafts, and then disbanding because we don’t know how to fix it.
This is already happening thanks to LI, i don’t see how dps meters would make it any better.
You have too much faith in community which showed many times over past years that you cannot put trust in it. The beauty of gw2 was that it didn’t allow 3rd party software but guess new devs want wow clone.
I see a great community, that taught me all the raids, and now I feedback into it and help teach them. dps meters make it better because there is no more guess work. If some beginner with low ap, 5 LI, and exotic gear tries to join, and says they know what they are doing, they can prove it and earn a spot. Making players ping LI is a result of bad players trying to join good groups to get carried, rather than creating their own progression group.
I have seen so many things like this. For example, advertising in the lfg for an experienced group needing a dps and a ps joins because ‘ps is dps’, or something stupid like that. Groups put up requirements, because other people lie. With dps meters, we can quickly identify these issues, fix them and move on, rather than spend 30 minutes wiping because we don’t have the dps for no updrafts, and then disbanding because we don’t know how to fix it.
This won’t happen, they will just get instantly kicked over and over and over again. And trash talked on top of it. Have been there, seen that too many times.
I have done VG and co. when it came out, then i took break because i focused mainly on pvp. When i started to raid again, not even VG groups would take me because i didn’t have 50+ LI (despite KP and generally good knowledge of classes i play). I have faced extreme amount of toxicity, only reason why i got any bosses killed and have decent amount of LI now is because i joined guilds (which wasn’t so easy either due to my lack of LI back then, the elitism is unreal). This community taught me only one thing: it is extremely toxic.
Since these are legal, there’s no need to be all cloak-and-dagger with respect to talking about them. The two that are worth considering now are as follows:
Pros are being able to see raidwide DPS estimates without having everyone connect to a server. No network traffic at all. Cons are that it’s a little less accurate since it has to estimate peoples’ DPS. This one is also very good because it can have its logs easily exported to padl.tk for formatting and sharing with your team. Another con right now is that it has some tools for combat efficacy (total boss HP #‘s, for instance) that technically fall within what Chris Cleary said, but are a little unknown still. I wouldn’t expect to get banned for it, since Chris Cleary explicitly said they’d give people ample time to adjust, however.
Pros are that this is a really simple and low impact DPS meter if you just care about your personal DPS. This is also nicer for people who are worried about others seeing their DPS because it’s opt-in (only shows DPS for people who have it installed). Cons are that this has a phone-home functionality to the server, which introduces some risk since it’s not open source. That said, no one I know has anything bad to say about it, so it’s probably fine for now.
[VZ] Valor Zeal – Stormbluff Isle – Looking for steady, casual-friendly NA raiders!
Since these are legal, there’s no need to be all cloak-and-dagger with respect to talking about them. The two that are worth considering now are as follows:
Pros are being able to see raidwide DPS estimates without having everyone connect to a server. No network traffic at all. Cons are that it’s a little less accurate since it has to estimate peoples’ DPS. This one is also very good because it can have its logs easily exported to padl.tk for formatting and sharing with your team. Another con right now is that it has some tools for combat efficacy (total boss HP #‘s, for instance) that technically fall within what Chris Cleary said, but are a little unknown still. I wouldn’t expect to get banned for it, since Chris Cleary explicitly said they’d give people ample time to adjust, however.
Pros are that this is a really simple and low impact DPS meter if you just care about your personal DPS. This is also nicer for people who are worried about others seeing their DPS because it’s opt-in (only shows DPS for people who have it installed). Cons are that this has a phone-home functionality to the server, which introduces some risk since it’s not open source. That said, no one I know has anything bad to say about it, so it’s probably fine for now.
“Legal?” I don’t think that’s fair to say, since ANet cannot give their blessing to an individual program.
We can say that the fan-developers of the listed meters say that they followed ANet’s recent set of guidelines and that (to the best of my ability to research it), all the users of said meters agree.
So we can say that this meter is “compliant” and that meter is “not compliant.” They are still “use at your own risk,” in the sense that if anything goes wrong, you’re on your own.
tl;dr the listed meters are believed to follow ANet’s guidelines; that’s as good as we can get for any 3rd party tool.
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
“Legal?” I don’t think that’s fair to say, since ANet cannot every give their blessing to an individual program.
We can say that the fan-developers of the listed meters say that they followed ANet’s recent set of guidelines and that (to the best of my ability to research it), all the users of said meters agree.
So we can say that this meter is “compliant” and that meter is “not compliant.” They are still “use at your own risk,” in the sense that if anything goes wrong, you’re on your own.
tl;dr the listed meters are believed to follow ANet’s guidelines; that’s as good as we can get for any 3rd party tool.
i like how you think they need to say its okay. anet could literally post the code for it saying “THIS IS OK” and he would still go on about “b but its still a risk to your account!”
This won’t happen, they will just get instantly kicked over and over and over again. And trash talked on top of it. Have been there, seen that too many times.
I have done VG and co. when it came out, then i took break because i focused mainly on pvp. When i started to raid again, not even VG groups would take me because i didn’t have 50+ LI (despite KP and generally good knowledge of classes i play). I have faced extreme amount of toxicity, only reason why i got any bosses killed and have decent amount of LI now is because i joined guilds (which wasn’t so easy either due to my lack of LI back then, the elitism is unreal). This community taught me only one thing: it is extremely toxic.
Again, the solution is simple, if you don’t like how people run their groups, make your own. My guild grabs a few pugs every week to fill slots, often no LI reqs. Today we didn’t have an reqs other than exp, because we knew the meters would reveal the truth to us. A rev tried to join to fill a dps slot at sab, we let them try for a few pulls. Fact is, they pulled less dps than our power ps wars, so we did ultimately kick. But they had a chance, something we probably wouldn’t have given them without dps meters.
Fact is, they pulled less dps than our power ps wars, so we did ultimately kick.
Wow, that’s hard. How much was the difference? Because the numbers of realistic damage between both classes is very small.
Also, if he did the mechanics right your group should have been able to kill Sabetha no matter what, saying he wasn’t the problem in the fight then.
Don’t get me wrong, your group and you have every right to kick players out of the squad if you are not pleased with the person but this simple example underlines my scepticism about dps meters.
And while GW2 raid bosses are no hard dps races and more a thing of executing the mechanics properly I’m still convinced that the permission of dps meters will result in more conflicts and toxicity than before, although these levels were relatively low.
I just see that from my point of view as I mentioned in this thread I will use a dps meter myself now and definitely will exclude more players after few tries than before because they don’t meet my dps expectations. This is not a contradiction to my words above, it’s only a thing of self protection to minimize the time wasting. Nobody would deny that there are many raiders out there thinking the same and I’m sure there are many players acting more strict than me.
LI requirement crap wasn’t causing enough toxicity, let’s officially support another toxic tool!!!
You dare to rez someone -> lose dps – get kicked.
You dare to run off with aoe/out of aoe so you don’t take dmg -> lose dps -> get kicked!
Welcome to WoW raiding guize, where mods are allowed and dps meters forced absolutely selfish and suicidal gameplay.
WoW has Warcraftlogs, which allows for detailed analysis via logs so they’d know that you had rezzed someone at a certain time stamp to identify a downward spike in DPS.
WoW raiding is the gold standard, don’t pretend otherwise.
LI requirement crap wasn’t causing enough toxicity, let’s officially support another toxic tool!!!
You dare to rez someone -> lose dps – get kicked.
You dare to run off with aoe/out of aoe so you don’t take dmg -> lose dps -> get kicked!
Welcome to WoW raiding guize, where mods are allowed and dps meters forced absolutely selfish and suicidal gameplay.
WoW has Warcraftlogs, which allows for detailed analysis via logs so they’d know that you had rezzed someone at a certain time stamp to identify a downward spike in DPS.
WoW raiding is the gold standard, don’t pretend otherwise.
yeah… maybe in ideal case with reasonable raid leader….. which is like 1 out of 10
i have seen people getting kicked from raids for doing 3% less dps than they supposed, nobody cared that they guy maybe had to deal with some mechanics
LI requirement crap wasn’t causing enough toxicity, let’s officially support another toxic tool!!!
You dare to rez someone -> lose dps – get kicked.
You dare to run off with aoe/out of aoe so you don’t take dmg -> lose dps -> get kicked!
Welcome to WoW raiding guize, where mods are allowed and dps meters forced absolutely selfish and suicidal gameplay.
Dps-meters with full logging and analyzing features are actually good thing for pve and not a problem at all. Try them in WoW and you will see how great that tool is.
Actual problem is quite sad state of the gw2 raiding community, and devs who somehow missed like 10 years of raid evolution in MMO games.
“Legal?” I don’t think that’s fair to say, since ANet cannot every give their blessing to an individual program.
We can say that the fan-developers of the listed meters say that they followed ANet’s recent set of guidelines and that (to the best of my ability to research it), all the users of said meters agree.
So we can say that this meter is “compliant” and that meter is “not compliant.” They are still “use at your own risk,” in the sense that if anything goes wrong, you’re on your own.
tl;dr the listed meters are believed to follow ANet’s guidelines; that’s as good as we can get for any 3rd party tool.
i like how you think they need to say its okay. anet could literally post the code for it saying “THIS IS OK” and he would still go on about “b but its still a risk to your account!”
I don’t think ANet needs to do anything at all. I think we need to realize that there’s a difference between something to which they don’t object (e.g. DPS meters) and something that has their seal of approval (i.e. not much, if anything).
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
Fact is, they pulled less dps than our power ps wars, so we did ultimately kick.
Wow, that’s hard. How much was the difference? Because the numbers of realistic damage between both classes is very small.
Also, if he did the mechanics right your group should have been able to kill Sabetha no matter what, saying he wasn’t the problem in the fight then.
Don’t get me wrong, your group and you have every right to kick players out of the squad if you are not pleased with the person but this simple example underlines my scepticism about dps meters.
And while GW2 raid bosses are no hard dps races and more a thing of executing the mechanics properly I’m still convinced that the permission of dps meters will result in more conflicts and toxicity than before, although these levels were relatively low.
I just see that from my point of view as I mentioned in this thread I will use a dps meter myself now and definitely will exclude more players after few tries than before because they don’t meet my dps expectations. This is not a contradiction to my words above, it’s only a thing of self protection to minimize the time wasting. Nobody would deny that there are many raiders out there thinking the same and I’m sure there are many players acting more strict than me.
reread my post. The lfg we had up was advertising for a dps. This guy thought he could fill that role as a rev, and we decided to let him try. Simply being close to war in dps was not enough. I only mentioned he was below war dps to give perspective. We were expecting condi ranger, ele, guard, or thief. And we got rev. But we decided to give him a chance, because we could confirm whether or not he could fill that role.
Sabetha is probably the boss I see hit enrage the most often, and so trying to do it with only 3 dps slots with a guild that is progressing was a real hindrance. Of course 9 above average players can carry 1 build that isn’t optimal. But we are a progressing guild, who currently gets the first 2 bosses of w123. We are not yet good enough to be as relaxed at sabetha as we are at say gorseval. We need 10 players filling 10 roles.
Mechanics wise, the guy was ok, but we were on pace to hit enrage. We told him that it wasn’t going to work, and asked if he had anything else to play. He chose to leave, so I guess saying, ‘we kicked him’ isn’t 100% accurate.
LI requirement crap wasn’t causing enough toxicity, let’s officially support another toxic tool!!!
You dare to rez someone -> lose dps – get kicked.
You dare to run off with aoe/out of aoe so you don’t take dmg -> lose dps -> get kicked!
Welcome to WoW raiding guize, where mods are allowed and dps meters forced absolutely selfish and suicidal gameplay.
Dps-meters with full logging and analyzing features are actually good thing for pve and not a problem at all. Try them in WoW and you will see how great that tool is.
Actual problem is quite sad state of the gw2 raiding community, and devs who somehow missed like 10 years of raid evolution in MMO games.
I have raided in wow for years, i have seen enough of those meters. They caused nothing but selfish gameplay and drama in raiding groups. There was more toxicity because of them than in pvp.
reread my post. The lfg we had up was advertising for a dps. This guy thought he could fill that role as a rev, and we decided to let him try. Simply being close to war in dps was not enough. I only mentioned he was below war dps to give perspective. We were expecting condi ranger, ele, guard, or thief. And we got rev. But we decided to give him a chance, because we could confirm whether or not he could fill that role.
Sabetha is probably the boss I see hit enrage the most often, and so trying to do it with only 3 dps slots with a guild that is progressing was a real hindrance. Of course 9 above average players can carry 1 build that isn’t optimal. But we are a progressing guild, who currently gets the first 2 bosses of w123. We are not yet good enough to be as relaxed at sabetha as we are at say gorseval. We need 10 players filling 10 roles.
Mechanics wise, the guy was ok, but we were on pace to hit enrage. We told him that it wasn’t going to work, and asked if he had anything else to play. He chose to leave, so I guess saying, ‘we kicked him’ isn’t 100% accurate.
Ok, he left, that’s a complete different thing then.
And yeah, I read and understood your first post btw. You looked for a dps and you chose a rev…
Well, if you want to have a dps class you shouldn’t have let him stay in the first place because the difference between “real” dps and a rev/ps is huge, although good raid groups wouldn’t have had any problems with that. In this case the dps meter was unnecessary from the start – everybody could have told you so before even trying.
I hold my point, allowing the actual inaccurate dps meters will lead to more problems than solvings.
Ok, he left, that’s a complete different thing then.
And yeah, I read and understood your first post btw. You looked for a dps and you chose a rev…
Well, if you want to have a dps class you shouldn’t have let him stay in the first place because the difference between “real” dps and a rev/ps is huge, although good raid groups wouldn’t have had any problems with that. In this case the dps meter was unnecessary from the start – everybody could have told you so before even trying.
I hold my point, allowing the actual inaccurate dps meters will lead to more problems than solvings.
If your not a scientist I guess you won’t understand this. You might as well have said, “experimental testing wasn’t necessary because everyone already knew the theory”.
We have already seen a dps class emerge as a result of dps meters. No one thought condi mesmer would be so good, then they tried it at Matthias and boom, suddenly the world understands that simplicity of rotation can have a real effect outside the ideals of the testing golem.
We have also seen dnt’s thief video, where only auto attacking as a staff daredevil proved to be better than the more complicated rotations of eles on a few bosses.
Fact is, dps meters allow us to give people a chance, and make an informed decision, rather than blindly kicking based of class. Maybe this guy was the worlds best rev, maybe he had a new build that was better, who knows, that’s why you run the experiment, and at the same time he gets a shot to earn his spot.
If your not a scientist I guess you won’t understand this. You might as well have said, “experimental testing wasn’t necessary because everyone already knew the theory”.
Funny, because I am a scientist and yes, I know this phrase. ^^
We have already seen a dps class emerge as a result of dps meters. No one thought condi mesmer would be so good, then they tried it at Matthias and boom, suddenly the world understands that simplicity of rotation can have a real effect outside the ideals of the testing golem.
First, I don’t believe it was the use of a dps meter that made the condi mesmer at Matthias viable.
Second, to test it, a dps meter isn’t necessary at all.
We have also seen dnt’s thief video, where only auto attacking as a staff daredevil proved to be better than the more complicated rotations of eles on a few bosses.
That’s also a point that every intelligent person will be able to spot without a dps meter just via the comparison of the different rotations and that ele and thief dps is next to each other.
Fact is, dps meters allow us to give people a chance, and make an informed decision, rather than blindly kicking based of class.
Most kicks weren’t based of class, they were executed because players were failing the mechanics. Still a thing the current dps meters aren’t able to show you.
Maybe this guy was the worlds best rev, maybe he had a new build that was better, who knows, that’s why you run the experiment, and at the same time he gets a shot to earn his spot.
The point is, your example is a special one and not the standard you meet every day in the lfg.
Overall, the procedure will shift to dps monitoring like people are doing it with “the meta is the only viable thing” (average people are not the most intelligent ones) although dps is secondary for GW2 raid bosses.
LI requirement crap wasn’t causing enough toxicity, let’s officially support another toxic tool!!!
You dare to rez someone -> lose dps – get kicked.
You dare to run off with aoe/out of aoe so you don’t take dmg -> lose dps -> get kicked!
Welcome to WoW raiding guize, where mods are allowed and dps meters forced absolutely selfish and suicidal gameplay.
WoW has Warcraftlogs, which allows for detailed analysis via logs so they’d know that you had rezzed someone at a certain time stamp to identify a downward spike in DPS.
WoW raiding is the gold standard, don’t pretend otherwise.
yeah… maybe in ideal case with reasonable raid leader….. which is like 1 out of 10
i have seen people getting kicked from raids for doing 3% less dps than they supposed, nobody cared that they guy maybe had to deal with some mechanics
Stupid people are stupid and will kick regardless of whether DPS meters and logs exist or not.
I don’t understand why you think this game should be designed with the stupid or inept in mind.
If you have an ignorant raid leader, you should jump to another raid.
In WoW during Cataclysm I had a raid leader berate me as an affliction warlock (dot class with no burst) over why my damage on Al’Akir’s adds was low. I proceeded to tell him he has no idea about how warlocks function and I won’t suffer a raid leader who doesn’t bother to research on class capabilities.
I switched raid groups and everything was better after.
“Legal?” I don’t think that’s fair to say, since ANet cannot every give their blessing to an individual program.
We can say that the fan-developers of the listed meters say that they followed ANet’s recent set of guidelines and that (to the best of my ability to research it), all the users of said meters agree.
So we can say that this meter is “compliant” and that meter is “not compliant.” They are still “use at your own risk,” in the sense that if anything goes wrong, you’re on your own.
tl;dr the listed meters are believed to follow ANet’s guidelines; that’s as good as we can get for any 3rd party tool.
i like how you think they need to say its okay. anet could literally post the code for it saying “THIS IS OK” and he would still go on about “b but its still a risk to your account!”
I don’t think ANet needs to do anything at all. I think we need to realize that there’s a difference between something to which they don’t object (e.g. DPS meters) and something that has their seal of approval (i.e. not much, if anything).
since when saying “using 3rd party tools that do x and y is ok with us” is not the same with saying 3rd party tools that do x and y have out seal of approval
“Legal?” I don’t think that’s fair to say, since ANet cannot every give their blessing to an individual program.
We can say that the fan-developers of the listed meters say that they followed ANet’s recent set of guidelines and that (to the best of my ability to research it), all the users of said meters agree.
So we can say that this meter is “compliant” and that meter is “not compliant.” They are still “use at your own risk,” in the sense that if anything goes wrong, you’re on your own.
tl;dr the listed meters are believed to follow ANet’s guidelines; that’s as good as we can get for any 3rd party tool.
i like how you think they need to say its okay. anet could literally post the code for it saying “THIS IS OK” and he would still go on about “b but its still a risk to your account!”
I don’t think ANet needs to do anything at all. I think we need to realize that there’s a difference between something to which they don’t object (e.g. DPS meters) and something that has their seal of approval (i.e. not much, if anything).
since when saying “using 3rd party tools that do x and y is ok with us” is not the same with saying 3rd party tools that do x and y have out seal of approval
It’s the difference between generically saying the use is okay and actually vetting any specific app. We have to trust the 3rd party developer that the app follows ANet’s policies and that we’re downloading a valid version — there are plenty reasons that both are reasonable things to do; that doesn’t mean that ANet has offered a seal of approval to a particular app.
John Smith: “you should kill monsters, because killing monsters is awesome.”
“Legal?” I don’t think that’s fair to say, since ANet cannot every give their blessing to an individual program.
We can say that the fan-developers of the listed meters say that they followed ANet’s recent set of guidelines and that (to the best of my ability to research it), all the users of said meters agree.
So we can say that this meter is “compliant” and that meter is “not compliant.” They are still “use at your own risk,” in the sense that if anything goes wrong, you’re on your own.
tl;dr the listed meters are believed to follow ANet’s guidelines; that’s as good as we can get for any 3rd party tool.
i like how you think they need to say its okay. anet could literally post the code for it saying “THIS IS OK” and he would still go on about “b but its still a risk to your account!”
I don’t think ANet needs to do anything at all. I think we need to realize that there’s a difference between something to which they don’t object (e.g. DPS meters) and something that has their seal of approval (i.e. not much, if anything).
since when saying “using 3rd party tools that do x and y is ok with us” is not the same with saying 3rd party tools that do x and y have out seal of approval
It’s the difference between generically saying the use is okay and actually vetting any specific app. We have to trust the 3rd party developer that the app follows ANet’s policies and that we’re downloading a valid version — there are plenty reasons that both are reasonable things to do; that doesn’t mean that ANet has offered a seal of approval to a particular app.
i still think your just being incredibly picky for the sake of being picky. it has no relevance. if you want to know if bdgm is legal or not im sure the owner would gladly talk to you on teamspeak about it.
many people are using it now. just a while ago, in the pug raid team. after a few wipe, this guy said to a guy in the team.
“hey hey. what are you doing just now, your dps is shet as12k as tempest at w2b2, so and so did 17k and I did 19k as guardian. what are you doing?”
the thing is, this guy wasn’t raging he was talking with jokes and we all just add to the joke. but imagine if it is another nasty person who just like to be around the game to pick on people and cause trouble.. I am pretty sure many people experience in the game will not be pleasant. probably something needs to be done about it.
Champion Magus & Phantom, Demon’s Demise, The Archdesigner.
Death is Energy [DIE] – Gandara EU
Australia
It was shocking for me to use a dps meter for the first time due to several reasons:
- Condi Necro dmg without many enemies is awkward compared to almost everything else. Never expected it to be that impressive
They should revert the nerf – at least a bit
- I played Temp yesterday in some pug raid groups. I’m not a main temp so I expected others to do way more dmg than me. Nope. Kinda sad to see being the top dps and others to struggle very hard, embarrassing difference despite experienced raid players. No need to say I haven’t killed any encounters with those groups.
The final group where dps was on par with me killed 6 bosses with ease.
We have already seen a dps class emerge as a result of dps meters. No one thought condi mesmer would be so good, then they tried it at Matthias and boom, suddenly the world understands that simplicity of rotation can have a real effect outside the ideals of the testing golem.
It’s not because DPS mesmer is good or simple (thief is even more simple), it’s because of the mechanics of the fight and mechanics of mesmer. As a DPS class it’s hard to keep DPS on Matthias as there mechanics that have you run across the room or away from the boss etc lowering how often you get to attack.
A mesmer unloads a significant portion of this onto phantasms and always has which means while doing these mechanics they keep up a large part of their damage. The boss also doesn’t have invulnerable phases, changes, adds or anything like that which screws up a mesmer as its biggest weakness is lots of lower health targets and slow ramp up time of a minute or two.
There’s a reason you don’t see them used on any other boss and why you almost never see this build or any other DPS mesmer anywhere else in the game.
