Guild Wars 2

Minion Master, Blood, GS Reaper Support Tank

Why can’t this be a viable raid tank?

You get baked in toughness for aggro, damage reduction through MM mechanics, self heals and ambient heals through Blood, more DPS than a Chrono.

If non boon buffs supposedly span to 10 players (like banners) rumored for the balance patch then why wouldn’t this be a viable Raid Tank?

it is a Viable Raid tank. Always has been.

Chrono Tank is just a better option.
Druid Tank is a better option.

Yes Reaper damage is that bad.

Ropechef.6192:

it is a Viable Raid tank. Always has been.

Chrono Tank is just a better option.
Druid Tank is a better option.

Yes Reaper damage is that bad.

I need a buff, I need some reason to keep playing this game. I mean WoW DKs have the fantasy down but the graphics and artwork is so garish.

Necro is tanky enough, I’d rather having reversed the dmg nerf a.k.a. “minion bug” or an increase of dmg in offensive builds – I don’t mind only the condition build.

I main Reaper.

I love my power reaper so much that i know i need to put it on the shelf for the betterment of the group I run with. And since I am either Pugging, or leading training runs. I file roles that are needed.
and Reaper is just not needed currently.

such as it is. we shall see what happens Wednesday

on a side note. I am ludicrously happy that Guild Wars 2 raiding is nothing Like World of Warcraft. but that’s just me. .

Ropechef.6192:

I main Reaper.

I love my power reaper so much that i know i need to put it on the shelf for the betterment of the group I run with. And since I am either Pugging, or leading training runs. I file roles that are needed.
and Reaper is just not needed currently.

such as it is. we shall see what happens Wednesday

on a side note. I am ludicrously happy that Guild Wars 2 raiding is nothing Like World of Warcraft. but that’s just me. .

So you’re happy that class balance is so crappy that you can’t raid with your main?

What ever flavor that coolaid is let me know so I never buy it by accident when I’m shopping.

I just can not wrap my head around the mentality that a whole subset of the player base accepts that the game is so broken that they gladly play classes they have no insterest in; I’ve had this discussion with other guild members as well.

No one has a good answer.

Oldirtbeard.9834:

Ropechef.6192:

I main Reaper.

I love my power reaper so much that i know i need to put it on the shelf for the betterment of the group I run with. And since I am either Pugging, or leading training runs. I file roles that are needed.
and Reaper is just not needed currently.

such as it is. we shall see what happens Wednesday

on a side note. I am ludicrously happy that Guild Wars 2 raiding is nothing Like World of Warcraft. but that’s just me. .

So you’re happy that class balance is so crappy that you can’t raid with your main?

What ever flavor that coolaid is let me know so I never buy it by accident when I’m shopping.

I just can not wrap my head around the mentality that a whole subset of the player base accepts that the game is so broken that they gladly play classes they have no insterest in; I’ve had this discussion with other guild members as well.

No one has a good answer.

Perhaps because you refuse to listen to other views than your own?
That you have a main doesn’t mean that you have no interest in other professions(well for you it does I guess) and in TEAM content you often try to bring whatever is best for the, you probably guessed it, TEAM. Some professions are more optimal than others if played well depending on encounter, but ALL are viable choices. What you fail to realise is that you are not entitled to other people’s time, meaning that you bring what they ask for or you simply don’t join that group. If you want to play something specific, simply create your own group – is that really so hard?

Because chrono can still do it better.

Before the changes that lead to mirror comp, most parties ran 1 chrono and 1 revenant and the chrono would do the tanking for the group still.

Tanking in raids isn’t about being able to take a bunch of damage. It’s about having enough toughness to hold aggro, and positioning the boss properly while putting out utility for your team still. If for whatever reason we moved away chrono tanks and druid wasn’t a viable option, we would probably just use guardians or scrappers again like we did when the raid first came out.

Oldirtbeard.9834:

Ropechef.6192:

I main Reaper.

I love my power reaper so much that i know i need to put it on the shelf for the betterment of the group I run with. And since I am either Pugging, or leading training runs. I file roles that are needed.
and Reaper is just not needed currently.

such as it is. we shall see what happens Wednesday

on a side note. I am ludicrously happy that Guild Wars 2 raiding is nothing Like World of Warcraft. but that’s just me. .

So you’re happy that class balance is so crappy that you can’t raid with your main?

What ever flavor that coolaid is let me know so I never buy it by accident when I’m shopping.

I just can not wrap my head around the mentality that a whole subset of the player base accepts that the game is so broken that they gladly play classes they have no insterest in; I’ve had this discussion with other guild members as well.

No one has a good answer.

I was a warrior main. The group I was raiding with struggled to have a regular Chrono but had many warriors. I had no interested previously in playing Chrono at all, I thought open world Mesmer was an awful class. However I decided to give it a go to try to fill a roll in my team that needed to be filled. I learnt how to play it and actually ended up loving the role and the profession… in raids, I still think its awful in open world.

You could give other professions a go and actually find out you might like it in different game mode, just like huge swaths of the community have.

Oldirtbeard.9834:

Ropechef.6192:

I main Reaper.

I love my power reaper so much that i know i need to put it on the shelf for the betterment of the group I run with. And since I am either Pugging, or leading training runs. I file roles that are needed.
and Reaper is just not needed currently.

such as it is. we shall see what happens Wednesday

on a side note. I am ludicrously happy that Guild Wars 2 raiding is nothing Like World of Warcraft. but that’s just me. .

So you’re happy that class balance is so crappy that you can’t raid with your main?

What ever flavor that coolaid is let me know so I never buy it by accident when I’m shopping.

I just can not wrap my head around the mentality that a whole subset of the player base accepts that the game is so broken that they gladly play classes they have no insterest in; I’ve had this discussion with other guild members as well.

No one has a good answer.

Where is it said that you can’t raid with your main? The meta? Then why would you let the meta determine what you are able to do in the game, if you don’t agree with the meta? If you aren’t letting it determine what you are able to do, then why does it matter to you how other people want to play and what they are ok with?

Oldirtbeard.9834:

Minion Master, Blood, GS Reaper Support Tank

Why can’t this be a viable raid tank?

You get baked in toughness for aggro, damage reduction through MM mechanics, self heals and ambient heals through Blood, more DPS than a Chrono.

If non boon buffs supposedly span to 10 players (like banners) rumored for the balance patch then why wouldn’t this be a viable Raid Tank?

It can be a viable raid tank, but currently it’s just inefficient to use. You still need a Mesmer, so you’d end up having 2 low DPS people in a party instead of just 1. Mesmer allows you to condense the quickness/alacrity role and the tank role into 1 person, freeing up an extra DPS slot.

It does work though, and is a reasonable choice if you don’t have a Mesmer able to do it for some reason. It’s just inefficient is all.

Oldirtbeard.9834:

Minion Master, Blood, GS Reaper Support Tank

Why can’t this be a viable raid tank?

You get baked in toughness for aggro, damage reduction through MM mechanics, self heals and ambient heals through Blood, more DPS than a Chrono.

If non boon buffs supposedly span to 10 players (like banners) rumored for the balance patch then why wouldn’t this be a viable Raid Tank?

You would still run 2 chronos for group wide quickness. Reaper tank having more dps than chrono is irrelevant. What matters is the contribution to group dps. Chrono dps is garbage no matter what, but the amount of group wide dps it brings is huge, and it can still do this even in full tank gear like minstrels. Having a chrono fill the tank role, opens up an additional slot for a good dps character.

However, I will say this. If Vampiric presence is going to effect 10 players, I think it is worth bringing if you have a few power dps classes.

Don’t quote me on these numbers, because it was a while ago. But with realistic buffs, I believe I I saw a dagger ele dps increase by 2k due to vampire presence. I recall, that the buff did not have an internal cool down, and so classes that do a lot of hits per second benefit the most.

If all 4 dps classes get 2k, and then your warriors also get 2k combined, you would get a total group wide dps increase of over 10k (chronos and druids won’t benefit as much, but they still get some). Additionally you get the added sustain to keep up scholar, and you also get transfusion which is godly in inexperienced groups. Which would make necro more competitive with ele for a dps slot role.

Also why Greatsword ?

It’s a joke of a weapon in PvE.

The state of the game is that you don’t need defensive stats in order to tank any of the current bosses due to the presence of active defense. Necro works as a tank, but you still need 2 chronos, so you’re taking up a dps slot (inb4 2/22 balance patch).

Also, as part of balancing classes, there needs to be a tradeoff between damage and survivability. It is good for balance that the most damage comes from an ele and then a thief, and the most squishy is an ele and then a thief. The necro’s niche is that it is very naturally survivable, and so it should never be able to compete with those classes in terms of dps. That being said, there is definitely room for improvement with the balance so that necro can fit in to some fights. It would be good to see more necros kiting flak on Sab and casting epi on me while I’m a slubling.

Oldirtbeard.9834:

…
Why can’t this be a viable raid tank?
…

The proper question to ask yourself here is who do you replace and what do you get
compared to the “standard meta”.
If you replace one of the chronomancers, you gain a bit of DPS (necro indeed has better personal DPS than mesmer), but you’ll lose way more because half of the group will be missing quickness and alacrity, not to mention occasional distort for safe casting. Not worth it.
If you replace one of the DPS classes, you’ll straight up lose DPS, because power necro doesn’t do quite as well as tempests and other standard DPSers. You gain nothing because having the chrono free from tanking doesn’t increase the group performance in any way.

The reason chronos are always tanking is because they can do so without sacrificing anything. If you take anything else as a tank, you will always have to give something up, resulting in worse overall performance.

It is possible to kill a boss with MM GS reaper tank? Yes.
It is better than a chronotank? No.

TexZero.7910:

Also why Greatsword ?

It’s a joke of a weapon in PvE.

Because they look mfing amazing and the Reaper was designed with the GS in mind for fantasy.

If you told a Warrior they couldn’t use their GS any more they’d tell you to suck it

Tarasicodissa.7084:

Oldirtbeard.9834:

…
Why can’t this be a viable raid tank?
…

The proper question to ask yourself here is who do you replace and what do you get
compared to the “standard meta”.
If you replace one of the chronomancers, you gain a bit of DPS (necro indeed has better personal DPS than mesmer), but you’ll lose way more because half of the group will be missing quickness and alacrity, not to mention occasional distort for safe casting. Not worth it.
If you replace one of the DPS classes, you’ll straight up lose DPS, because power necro doesn’t do quite as well as tempests and other standard DPSers. You gain nothing because having the chrono free from tanking doesn’t increase the group performance in any way.

The reason chronos are always tanking is because they can do so without sacrificing anything. If you take anything else as a tank, you will always have to give something up, resulting in worse overall performance.

It is possible to kill a boss with MM GS reaper tank? Yes.
It is better than a chronotank? No.

This is what I don’t understand, when I do a raid in WoW I expect to be there for the duration, the balance is so good that I can take it for granted that I can tank on my Warrior, Death Knight, or hell even my Demon Hunter. Pfft DPS, no one gives a crap on anything out side of Mythic raiding just show up and not die. It just seems so cliqueish that in this game perhaps you get thrown a bone in a balance patch and all of a sudden it’s like WOW now I can do 2 whole Boss fights!

Oldirtbeard.9834:

TexZero.7910:

Also why Greatsword ?

It’s a joke of a weapon in PvE.

Because they look mfing amazing and the Reaper was designed with the GS in mind for fantasy. If you told a Warrior they couldn’t use their GS any more they’d tell you to suck it

I’m entirely sympathetic to this position: I’d love it to be usable in raids and other challenging PvE content much more than it is.

I personally suspect that it’s a people problem rather than a numbers problem, but … whatever the cause, I’d like to see that change. It’d be great to know if it really was that underperforming compared to other classes, and if so, see appropriate buffs.

I hope we see more aggregate performance stats coming out of raid logs, now that DPS meters are no longer forbidden. That’d be much harder for anet to argue with, if you can show how poorly they perform, rather than just asserting it.

Oldirtbeard.9834:

Tarasicodissa.7084:

Oldirtbeard.9834:

…
Why can’t this be a viable raid tank?
…

The proper question to ask yourself here is who do you replace and what do you get
compared to the “standard meta”.
If you replace one of the chronomancers, you gain a bit of DPS (necro indeed has better personal DPS than mesmer), but you’ll lose way more because half of the group will be missing quickness and alacrity, not to mention occasional distort for safe casting. Not worth it.
If you replace one of the DPS classes, you’ll straight up lose DPS, because power necro doesn’t do quite as well as tempests and other standard DPSers. You gain nothing because having the chrono free from tanking doesn’t increase the group performance in any way.

The reason chronos are always tanking is because they can do so without sacrificing anything. If you take anything else as a tank, you will always have to give something up, resulting in worse overall performance.

It is possible to kill a boss with MM GS reaper tank? Yes.
It is better than a chronotank? No.

This is what I don’t understand, when I do a raid in WoW I expect to be there for the duration, the balance is so good that I can take it for granted that I can tank on my Warrior, Death Knight, or hell even my Demon Hunter. Pfft DPS, no one gives a crap on anything out side of Mythic raiding just show up and not die. It just seems so cliqueish that in this game perhaps you get thrown a bone in a balance patch and all of a sudden it’s like WOW now I can do 2 whole Boss fights!

That’s because WoW raiding outside of the hardest mythic raids is a joke. Anyone can do it with minimal effort. A WoW raid is comparable to doing tier 3 fractals or something in GW2, just show up, don’t die, and you’ll clear.

Oldirtbeard.9834:

TexZero.7910:

Also why Greatsword ?

It’s a joke of a weapon in PvE.

Because they look mfing amazing and the Reaper was designed with the GS in mind for fantasy.

If you told a Warrior they couldn’t use their GS any more they’d tell you to suck it

Bad news for you, warriors shouldn’t use greatsword at any boss besides KC I’d say. Most of my guilds warriors are working on, or already have a condi ps. Raiding requires flexibility.

Because chronomancer damage isn’t high enough to justify not having them tank.

Oldirtbeard.9834:

TexZero.7910:

Also why Greatsword ?

It’s a joke of a weapon in PvE.

Because they look mfing amazing and the Reaper was designed with the GS in mind for fantasy.

If you told a Warrior they couldn’t use their GS any more they’d tell you to suck it

That’s great and all, but raids are not about your high fantasy desires. Practicality reigns supreme there. Greatsword on Necro is not practical on any of the currently designed fights. Trying to compare Greatsword on Necro to that of Warrior is a bad analogy due to how well Warrior Greatsword is. Even then it’s losing its own favor due to again fight design. You can use it on a number of bosses sure, but groups are adapting and learning to bring Condi PS instead.

If the optimal power warrior weapon was mainhand axe you would be told not to use greatsword anyways.

This is the crappy balance act they’ve done with their combat mechanics, where as always a single weapon will dominate throughout the entire encounter and DPS gaps between weapons are so large and the need for anything but damage so low, you’re going to sit on the answer to the question “what nets you more DPS and let’s you live still?”.

Wasabi Kitty.8247:

That’s because WoW raiding outside of the hardest mythic raids is a joke. Anyone can do it with minimal effort. A WoW raid is comparable to doing tier 3 fractals or something in GW2, just show up, don’t die, and you’ll clear.

I think you might, uh, be talking from a position biased by your own skill and experience there. If you have to get up to mythic raiding to find yourself challenged, you are in the top few percent of players in WoW.

Those skills translate to other games fairly effectively, and ultimately, to you, most things are going to be trivialised. This is not the experience of the majority of players.