I’m pretty sure Thief is the best DPS now (followed by Engineer) since the big nerf of Meteor Shower (hits 2 times less than before) and Overload air (7% damage nerf), Ele might be on par with DH now (for small targets that is) which hopefully will deliver more love to the other professions.
I’m not surprised. If I read the patch notes correctly, most mesmer quickness (apart from timewarp) is still capped to 5 and buffs like spotter are capped, too. After this baby step in the right direction, I just hope that they judge their tech to be capable of handling more 10-man buffs.
Warning! This post may contain traces of irony, sarcasm and peanuts.
I’m pretty sure Thief is the best DPS now (followed by Engineer) since the big nerf of Meteor Shower (hits 2 times less than before) and Overload air (7% damage nerf), Ele might be on par with DH now (for small targets that is) which hopefully will deliver more love to the other professions.
Yeah, but those are just replacing the DPS slots, not the mirrored utility ones. 2 PS, 2 chronos, 2 druid (spirits still 5 cap).
And since revenant gained kitten all for DPS, as did necro, that hardly changed their position.
Thief was a viable DPS class already anyways and in most practical scenarios for the average player outperformed the average tempest.
Rev and Necro still garbage tier. Power reaper and rev changes are a joke. Guardians got even stronger….
They got greatsword buffs, Whirlwing Wrath has shorter CD and does 20% more damage, and the Symbol does 22% more damage, the other abilities have shorter CD aswell.
Also, blasting light fields cleanse conditions now which makes some encounters much easier.
I’m pretty sure Thief is the best DPS now (followed by Engineer) since the big nerf of Meteor Shower (hits 2 times less than before) and Overload air (7% damage nerf), Ele might be on par with DH now (for small targets that is) which hopefully will deliver more love to the other professions.
Yeah, but those are just replacing the DPS slots, not the mirrored utility ones. 2 PS, 2 chronos, 2 druid (spirits still 5 cap).
And since revenant gained kitten all for DPS, as did necro, that hardly changed their position.
Thief was a viable DPS class already anyways and in most practical scenarios for the average player outperformed the average tempest.
Rev and Necro still garbage tier. Power reaper and rev changes are a joke. Guardians got even stronger….
If that’s true regarding Reapers then that’s longer I’ll not be buying anything from the Gem Store.
They got greatsword buffs, Whirlwing Wrath has shorter CD and does 20% more damage, and the Symbol does 22% more damage, the other abilities have shorter CD aswell.
Also, blasting light fields cleanse conditions now which makes some encounters much easier.
Wasn’t aware of GS actually being used, but you are probably right about the light fields.
Warning! This post may contain traces of irony, sarcasm and peanuts.
As I said, the DPS slots don’t change, they’ll always be filled by the best DPS classes, so in order to ensure class/build diversity they need to make room for multiple desirable class utilities.
Rev might have a spot as well as necro if we could cut out the extra druid, chrono, and PS warriors.
But they completely failed at that by not extending the spirit, PS might generation, and alacrity well/phantasm caps to 10.
As I said, the DPS slots don’t change, they’ll always be filled by the best DPS classes, so in order to ensure class/build diversity they need to make room for multiple desirable class utilities.
Rev might have a spot as well as necro if we could cut out the extra druid, chrono, and PS warriors.
But they completely failed at that by not extending the spirit, PS might generation, and alacrity well/phantasm caps to 10.
I think the main reason is too much strain on the system to calculate (which is total hogwash). Just let buffs hit 10 people in raids only if you don’t want to strain the system everywhere else. Keeps WvW from going out of hand, and buffing in open PvE is not needed). And if you really don’t want to strain the system even farther, make buffs hit everyone no matter where they are (I know that’s stupid, but it’d reduce strain) because that should make it so Anet only has to calculate on one thing than on everyone.
They got greatsword buffs, Whirlwing Wrath has shorter CD and does 20% more damage, and the Symbol does 22% more damage, the other abilities have shorter CD aswell.
Also, blasting light fields cleanse conditions now which makes some encounters much easier.
yeah .. hope to see some solid guardian in raids will make druid’s life easier too :P
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Herald does a lot less damage than newly buffed PS Warrior
Warrior gets an extra utility skill with the change to make banners 10-target
Empower Allies > Assassin’s Presence
Herald does a lot less damage than newly buffed PS Warrior
I’m sorry what? If you have some dps-testing of this I would like to see. Gs didn’t receive any buffs and condi ps received a very minor buff that still wouldn’t fill the gap between rev and warr dps. Rev dps was buffed aswell. If revenants find a solid build that can keep up 25stacks of might then rev actually could infact replace the another ps warr.
If revenants find a solid build that can keep up 25stacks of might then rev actually could infact replace the another ps warr.
That’s exactly the problem. If you try to be anything other than just a DPS class then you won’t beat a Warrior. If you try to bring Ventari for Alacrity, you’re weaker than a Warrior. If you try to stack might then you can’t viably swap to Jalis (which is where the increased damage was added) and you’re weaker than a Warrior. The two classes just don’t fill the same role.
P.S. New condition Warrior is super strong. It gets a free utility skill (Signet of Fury is strong), a stronger and more reliable Deep Strike, and bleeding on its filler sword auto attack Hamstring skill.
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If revenants find a solid build that can keep up 25stacks of might then rev actually could infact replace the another ps warr.
That’s exactly the problem. If you try to be anything other than just a DPS class then you won’t beat a Warrior. If you try to bring Ventari for Alacrity, you’re weaker than a Warrior. If you try to stack might then you can’t viably swap to Jalis (which is where the increased damage was added) and you’re weaker than a Warrior. The two classes just don’t fill the same role.
P.S. New condition Warrior is super strong. It gets a free utility skill (Signet of Fury is strong), a stronger and more reliable Deep Strike, and bleeding on its filler sword auto attack Hamstring skill.
Yeah, but even with scholar rune power ps (and before the patch power ps did more dps on paper than condi) is still far away from rev dps, meaning if rev get’s enough boon duration, without sacrificing too much dps it could be equal to ps warrior if not even better. So in theory it could replace one of the warriors from mirror comp, we have to wait and see what kind of builds and dps ppl come up with.
Yeah, but even with scholar rune power ps (and before the patch power ps did more dps on paper than condi) is still far away from rev dps, meaning if rev get’s enough boon duration, without sacrificing too much dps it could be equal to ps warrior if not even better. So in theory it could replace one of the warriors from mirror comp, we have to wait and see what kind of builds and dps ppl come up with.
How huge was the buff of the revenant because according to the latest numbers of qT prepatch I wouldn’t call 2k dps difference (realistic buffs) “far away”.
Yeah, but even with scholar rune power ps (and before the patch power ps did more dps on paper than condi) is still far away from rev dps, meaning if rev get’s enough boon duration, without sacrificing too much dps it could be equal to ps warrior if not even better. So in theory it could replace one of the warriors from mirror comp, we have to wait and see what kind of builds and dps ppl come up with.
How huge was the buff of the revenant because according to the latest numbers of qT prepatch I wouldn’t call 2k dps difference (realistic buffs) “far away”.
Take into account that those benchmarks for warrior both use Assassin’s Presence which you won’t have in your raidgroup with the current meta so the actual realistic dps is lower than what the benchmark is on the list. And I don’t know where you pick up this 2k dps difference, from what I see it’s almost 5k on the dps ranking list. And that is pretty significant difference.
Edit: As for the buff to revenant, they only buffed vengeful hammers but still it’s quite decent buff. Definately noticeable buff even without dps meter as I was doing fractals earlier with my revenant.
“Vengeful Hammers: Increased the base damage of this skill by 100%.”
There is a lot of synergy. Most of these builds even got buffed.
The harsh nerf to Sharpened Edges hurts a bit but that is about it. Power comps got their tempests shaved which is way worse for them.
I’m pretty sure Thief is the best DPS now (followed by Engineer) since the big nerf of Meteor Shower (hits 2 times less than before) and Overload air (7% damage nerf), Ele might be on par with DH now (for small targets that is) which hopefully will deliver more love to the other professions.
Yeah, except they didn’t do anything to improve (basically non-existent) group utility of the thief so overall ele is still more useful (rebound on Matt, Xera, Gorse anyone?).
If you put a warrior in its own subgroup he could solo stack the whole party and with empower allies lasting 9 seconds with a 3 second refresh I belive that on fights like gors and sab a solo warrior comp is viable and maybe even optimal
I’m pretty sure Thief is the best DPS now (followed by Engineer) since the big nerf of Meteor Shower (hits 2 times less than before) and Overload air (7% damage nerf), Ele might be on par with DH now (for small targets that is) which hopefully will deliver more love to the other professions.
Yeah, except they didn’t do anything to improve (basically non-existent) group utility of the thief so overall ele is still more useful (rebound on Matt, Xera, Gorse anyone?).
You are there in a DPS role, why are you talking about utility? Basi venom > rebound and a lot use fgs instead of rebound for the dps. That’s without mentioning how much easier it is to do good DPS on thief so your average player (read: bad player needing something easy) will be much more use actually pulling something remotely close to the DPS they should on thief than playing ele, going down all the time and fudging up their rotation.
The biggest thing you should be complaining about is the possibility of a nearly all “condi meta” dominated by rangers. It’s funny how in ANets attempt to bring about diversity they may have made raids less diverse than ever. I know every class will be fine if you’re good at it, won’t stop ignorant kittens claiming something is useless because they see the rankings and don’t interpret them properly.
A power warrior can stack 25 might for 9 people now, but he need to use FGJ, FGJ is absurd now giving 12 might, this more might from heal ( strenght runes ),warrior already starts the fight at 15 might, headbut into berserk F1+F1+Hundred blade on quickness 10 might. So he just gave 25 might in what 3-4 seconds? N
Now he can easily give 10-15 might to the other players, and then revenant complete the other 10 to 25 might. And if one of the DPS is a Scepter DH then its even easier to achieve 25 might for everyone as his symbol gives might or a Hammer DH with the trait that gives might.
I’m pretty sure Thief is the best DPS now (followed by Engineer) since the big nerf of Meteor Shower (hits 2 times less than before) and Overload air (7% damage nerf), Ele might be on par with DH now (for small targets that is) which hopefully will deliver more love to the other professions.
Yeah, except they didn’t do anything to improve (basically non-existent) group utility of the thief so overall ele is still more useful (rebound on Matt, Xera, Gorse anyone?).
You are there in a DPS role, why are you talking about utility? Basi venom > rebound and a lot use fgs instead of rebound for the dps. That’s without mentioning how much easier it is to do good DPS on thief so your average player (read: bad player needing something easy) will be much more use actually pulling something remotely close to the DPS they should on thief than playing ele, going down all the time and fudging up their rotation.
The biggest thing you should be complaining about is the possibility of a nearly all “condi meta” dominated by rangers. It’s funny how in ANets attempt to bring about diversity they may have made raids less diverse than ever. I know every class will be fine if you’re good at it, won’t stop ignorant kittens claiming something is useless because they see the rankings and don’t interpret them properly.
Reality check: I have rev, engi, chrono, thief, ele geared for raids atm (ascended, runes etc.) yet i can’t find any groups for any of those profs beside my ele and chrono (despite me being thief main and playing thief for years), just saying.
Reality check: I have rev, engi, chrono, thief, ele geared for raids atm (ascended, runes etc.) yet i can’t find any groups for any of those profs beside my ele and chrono (despite me being thief main and playing thief for years), just saying.
It’s been a day so pugs haven’t adapted to the new meta builds yet. Wait until qT posts up their benchmarks at the very least and I can tell you right now thief/engi are actually pretty decent DPS-wise and bring ok utility. There’s no longer high pressure to stack 4 eles (for power) so you’re more likely to get a decent mix especially since most people won’t be pulling the 40k dps+ with the new scepter/wh build.
Here’s one of our casual 8 mans we did tonight on VG:
I was the power engi (Kanna) and I could almost match the condi rangers who I think are at the top for condi damage right now. The other engy was condi but it’s a casual run so the DPS isn’t gonna be qT level (which in theory would be higher than power I think).
You can see though power engi (and thief! which I don’t have logs of unfortunately) is totally viable and actually decent right now just need pugs to wake the eff up which takes time.
ps. Pugs are dumb so you should find a group of friends/guildies if you wanna play engi/thief consistently
pps. There was a recent reddit post saying that pugs on EU that run ele tend to be really bad and do low DPS (probably same on NA) and thief would work better for them just auto attacking but pugs will be pugs rip I know how you feel
I’m pretty sure Thief is the best DPS now (followed by Engineer) since the big nerf of Meteor Shower (hits 2 times less than before) and Overload air (7% damage nerf), Ele might be on par with DH now (for small targets that is) which hopefully will deliver more love to the other professions.
Yeah, except they didn’t do anything to improve (basically non-existent) group utility of the thief so overall ele is still more useful (rebound on Matt, Xera, Gorse anyone?).
You are there in a DPS role, why are you talking about utility? Basi venom > rebound and a lot use fgs instead of rebound for the dps. That’s without mentioning how much easier it is to do good DPS on thief so your average player (read: bad player needing something easy) will be much more use actually pulling something remotely close to the DPS they should on thief than playing ele, going down all the time and fudging up their rotation.
The biggest thing you should be complaining about is the possibility of a nearly all “condi meta” dominated by rangers. It’s funny how in ANets attempt to bring about diversity they may have made raids less diverse than ever. I know every class will be fine if you’re good at it, won’t stop ignorant kittens claiming something is useless because they see the rankings and don’t interpret them properly.
Reality check: I have rev, engi, chrono, thief, ele geared for raids atm (ascended, runes etc.) yet i can’t find any groups for any of those profs beside my ele and chrono (despite me being thief main and playing thief for years), just saying.
Gearing something is a lot different to being actually good at it, this is why I was saying people would be better asking for thieves given how much easier their rotation is to do good damage than eles. Just as pugs should be asking for condi rangers instead of engies because the rotation is much easier and even a mediocre player on ranger will be more useful than someone who doesn’t main engineer.
Your problem is what I was referring to in the last paragraph about how people look at ranking and claim other classes are useless without interpreting them and realising that the ones that weren’t top were also a lot easier to play.
Agreed. These changes weren’t made to kill mirror comp. I don’t think they even had much thought about raids for these changes they seem to by for wvw and group open world stuff.
I don’t see how you can justify more than one warrior anymore. It’s pretty easy to achieve permanent 25 might with just one (assuming the rest of your group helps a big, e.g. druid warhorn 5, maybe even jungle panther), and empower allies alone isn’t enough to justify a second warrior. Don’t forget that EA can already affect 6-7 players, so a second warrior is really only giving ~3.5 players EA for the crap personal DPS it provides. Even if you need the might, revenant is better in pretty much every way since Assassin’s Presence is better than a second EA and glint/jalis rev deals more damage, gives prot, etc.
It’s also possible that dropping a chrono is worth it with the time warp change if someone can figure out a good spot for ventari rev. In theory a single chrono can give pretty solid quickness to 10 people now (probably average ~90% uptime across the group, with some people a little lower and some higher) and you can have ventari fill in the alacrity gap, but revenant might just have to sacrifice too much to do it. I’ve messed around with dropping the herald line and running jalis/ventari with full DPS gear and it seems like it could be decent, my group will probably try it out tonight.
2x Druid is here to stay forever. Spotter and spirits are unique buffs that no other healing class can match.
I don’t see how you can justify more than one warrior anymore. It’s pretty easy to achieve permanent 25 might with just one (assuming the rest of your group helps a big, e.g. druid warhorn 5, maybe even jungle panther), and empower allies alone isn’t enough to justify a second warrior. Don’t forget that EA can already affect 6-7 players, so a second warrior is really only giving ~3.5 players EA for the crap personal DPS it provides. Even if you need the might, revenant is better in pretty much every way since Assassin’s Presence is better than a second EA and glint/jalis rev deals more damage, gives prot, etc.
Idk if I would go as far saying no more than 1 warrior at any raid boss. Only power can solo stack a 10 man party and even then they need strength runes , dumplings and bountiful. If you get in even a remotely moment fight most warriors just aren’t good enough to pull it off without doing crazy stuff like sigil of battle with double gs and or commanders gear
I don’t see how you can justify more than one warrior anymore. It’s pretty easy to achieve permanent 25 might with just one (assuming the rest of your group helps a big, e.g. druid warhorn 5, maybe even jungle panther), and empower allies alone isn’t enough to justify a second warrior. Don’t forget that EA can already affect 6-7 players, so a second warrior is really only giving ~3.5 players EA for the crap personal DPS it provides. Even if you need the might, revenant is better in pretty much every way since Assassin’s Presence is better than a second EA and glint/jalis rev deals more damage, gives prot, etc.
Idk if I would go as far saying no more than 1 warrior at any raid boss. Only power can solo stack a 10 man party and even then they need strength runes , dumplings and bountiful. If you get in even a remotely moment fight most warriors just aren’t good enough to pull it off without doing crazy stuff like sigil of battle with double gs and or commanders gear
You don’t need to solo stack 25 might on a single warrior. If you bring two druids with warhorns and jungle panthers they can together maintain probably 10 stacks of might across the group if they quick draw warhorn 5, and maybe 6-7 stacks if they quick draw something else. You will also get one stack from your chronomancer. Since it looks like Sc/W Tempest is going to be meta for power damage, you could probably stack 25 might without even having a warrior if you have multiple heat syncs.
And again, even if might is an issue, why would you bring the second warrior over a revenant when rev deals more damage and assassin’s presence is better than EA?
It’s fun to discuss those things here while “old squads” are still working fine without any troubles at all. Although I like it to hear improved squad compositions they are only valuable for the better skilled people in the end resulting in pugs copying the stuff without major success, I bet. ^^
will make druid’s life easier too :P