Guild Wars 2

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Fiontar.4695:

I hope the other things you’ve been working on aren’t more “fun” improvements to dungeons and world PvE mobs. So far, you’ve proven the existence of “anti-fun” as a real property and your pursuit of it has been disconcerting! (It’s probably not a good sign to have some fans breath a sigh of relief to learn that the new dungeon was not created by the Dungeon Team…) ;P

What someone defines as fun is often different from what another person calls fun. I’m sorry our dungeon work has not appealed to you and others, but there is an audience for what we do. My hope is that in the future, we can build something that appeals to you and other folks currently not on board with our dungeon content, while still staying true to the people who have enjoyed our content thus far. Bridging that gap is not an easy process, but I am confident that such things are not impossible feats

I suggest hiring someone who has run tabletop games before as an adviser then. An experienced DM will tell you exactly how to “bridge the gap” between those who want the harder and those who want the easier content.

In my honest opinion, dungeons in this game are by far the weakest part of the game. I am not completely blaming the dungeon design team though because the lack of trinity makes it harder to design good dungeons. However, it’s not rocket science that trash shouldn’t hit so hard for the rewards they offer. Also the bosses need to be large enough for their dodge attacks to be seen by people.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

In the case that AC was made harder, that’s a matter of opinion. Having personally reduced numbers like HP and damage, and modifying the skills used to not do more devastating things, I know for certain that it is numerically easier than it was before, and more forgiving to mistakes.
However we increased team based difficulty. We designed things to require players to coordinate and work together more than before, since that is our original goal: To create challenging content build for 5 coordinated players. This is why we’re not allowing it to scale like the rest of the game does. It’s set and built for 5, so it doesn’t need scaling.

IMO, that line of thinking is just wrong and runs contrary to what makes this game work. You could broaden the appeal of dungeons in a way that would make a lot more people happy, with out removing the challenge for those who want it, but refuse to do so. That comes off as stubbornness with a foundation in stale, old MMO design tropes, thumbing it’s nose at everything that makes this game so incredible otherwise.

It’s painful for some of us fans of the game who are long term vets of the genre and can’t understand why some developers for the game seem determined to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory when it comes to this game. To have the tools so readily available to allow Dungeons to scale to a large swath of the player base and refuse to go that route definitely ranks right up there as one of the most mind numbing AAA MMO design missteps in at least the last half decade.

Wildstar is going even further by allowing dungeons to scale from Solo all the way up to Raid size groupings. IMO, they get the new Paradigm, while some at Arenanet don’t comprehend that paradigm, even though GW2 itself has spearheaded the current paradigm shift for the MMO genre!

You could have been the “father” of truly scalable MMO dungeon design, but apparently have decided to become a stubborn defender of a stale, dying design model, which once again is more confounding given the game you design for.

Sorry for the rant, but one of the reasons I so strongly embraced this game years before release was due to the promise and potential it exhibited in shredding MMO design tropes that have been proven time and again to be so deeply flawed. GW2 is a stand out in intelligent, creative and original MMO design, but, sadly, those traits are not consistent across all aspects of the title. I didn’t expect perfection, but I also didn’t expect any senior designers for the game to let status quo, old guard thinking get in the way of intelligent, innovative and/or fun game design.

Robert Hrouda.1327:

In the case that AC was made harder, that’s a matter of opinion. Having personally reduced numbers like HP and damage, and modifying the skills used to not do more devastating things, I know for certain that it is numerically easier than it was before, and more forgiving to mistakes.
However we increased team based difficulty. We designed things to require players to coordinate and work together more than before, since that is our original goal: To create challenging content build for 5 coordinated players. This is why we’re not allowing it to scale like the rest of the game does. It’s set and built for 5, so it doesn’t need scaling.

I played the new AC when it first was released, p1. It was very OP.Why? Skelks were invisible/ ones that knock you down were increased (burrow part was hard). All the skelks at the end boss were too many (Flames were not spawning). We beat it.

I waited a little bit (about a month) to try it again, huge differences. AC is now easy, infact I’ve myself soloed the spider and I have seen videos of people two manning the entire dungeon.

IMO, there should be a “difficutly scale” like in gw1 where there was Normal Mode (NM)and Hard Mode (HM), with HM being more profitable than NM.

Yes, AC now requires you to not be afk while fighting, but it is easier in the long run.
EDIT: Do I miss the old style of AC? Yes, I do miss it a lot. I don’t like the new way to fight the ghost eater (after having multiple runs where one or two traps bug out resulting in an hour and a half to two hour end fight, I can say I’m not a fan of p2. IDK if this was fixed.
TLDR; AC is easier now, you just can’t fight it like the dragons (aka sit in one spot and afk). Stop whining people.

StriderShinryu.6923:

I find it kind of funny how some (all?) of the people defending the current difficulty are saying “Hey, it’s perfect for an end game dungeon!” when the dungeon is clearly not an end game dungeon. It’s playable and enjoyable at end game, yes, but it’s designed for level 35 characters as the first introduction to explorable dungeons. While it has been proven that, statistically, level 35 characters and down scaled level 80 characters are not particularly different in terms of strength that doesn’t at all take into account differences in actual experience.

We are not all saying that. I’ve done the new AC with 4 characters at level 35 and never had any issues at all. Players that don’t know how to dodge and either don’t know the dungeon or don’t listen to advice will have issues whether they are 35 or 80. Even done it with groups with no players above 60 a few times.

Fiontar.4695:

Robert Hrouda.1327:

In the case that AC was made harder, that’s a matter of opinion. Having personally reduced numbers like HP and damage, and modifying the skills used to not do more devastating things, I know for certain that it is numerically easier than it was before, and more forgiving to mistakes.
However we increased team based difficulty. We designed things to require players to coordinate and work together more than before, since that is our original goal: To create challenging content build for 5 coordinated players. This is why we’re not allowing it to scale like the rest of the game does. It’s set and built for 5, so it doesn’t need scaling.

IMO, that line of thinking is just wrong and runs contrary to what makes this game work. You could broaden the appeal of dungeons in a way that would make a lot more people happy, with out removing the challenge for those who want it, but refuse to do so. That comes off as stubbornness with a foundation in stale, old MMO design tropes, thumbing it’s nose at everything that makes this game so incredible otherwise.

It’s painful for some of us fans of the game who are long term vets of the genre and can’t understand why some developers for the game seem determined to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory when it comes to this game. To have the tools so readily available to allow Dungeons to scale to a large swath of the player base and refuse to go that route definitely ranks right up there as one of the most mind numbing AAA MMO design missteps in at least the last half decade.

Wildstar is going even further by allowing dungeons to scale from Solo all the way up to Raid size groupings. IMO, they get the new Paradigm, while some at Arenanet don’t comprehend that paradigm, even though GW2 itself has spearheaded the current paradigm shift for the MMO genre!

You could have been the “father” of truly scalable MMO dungeon design, but apparently have decided to become a stubborn defender of a stale, dying design model, which once again is more confounding given the game you design for.

Sorry for the rant, but one of the reasons I so strongly embraced this game years before release was due to the promise and potential it exhibited in shredding MMO design tropes that have been proven time and again to be so deeply flawed. GW2 is a stand out in intelligent, creative and original MMO design, but, sadly, those traits are not consistent across all aspects of the title. I didn’t expect perfection, but I also didn’t expect any senior designers for the game to let status quo, old guard thinking get in the way of intelligent, innovative and/or fun game design.

I agree that dungeons do need scale for 5+…. but not below that. A lot of them can be run by two- three people max (and they are built for five).

the problem with dungeons is that the dev team seems to think “hard” means stupid amounts of health and damage + cheap mechanics instead of:

-Interesting things that are FAIRLY telegraphed and must be dodged or you die(Kholer)

-Staged bosses with clear mechanics that function (Lupicus) or at least interesting bosses who have fun stuff that they do or feel epic(if every boss fight was as good or cool as the grawl fractal last boss id be so happy)…

-Trash mobs that have distinct functions like: Mob A does blank and needs to be dealt with in Blank way while mob B does X and needs to be dealt with in X way. INSTEAD we get stuff that we just zerg and kill….or skip. (We see good trash mob design in AC story mode actually)

-Support builds feel utterly useless because everything they can do other people can also do with more damaging builds. Since almost everyone can very easily be self sufficient there is almost NO reason to bring a full support build. Traits fail at making concise and solid builds that actually feel different for the most part. Since traits are only passive effects they never really feel like they create new gameplay, just augment what already exists and this makes dungeons very homogenized since we need no roles or specific tools, it’s just a zergfest

-Unshakable/Defiant is not a well designed mechanic because it is far too easily messed up even with communication. It should rather give the boss CC immunity for X amount of time each time they are CCd. This would allow interrupt based fights which we dont have at all….

-Explorable paths all take place in pretty much the exact same areas as story modes… i was very sad when i found out it wasnt unique paths.

-loot is horrendously bad. It would be great if chests had a chance to drop a unique set of skins that differs from the token set we can purchase. This would be a good way to implement more skins and more reasons to run dungeons.

-Dungeons should scale YOU up to 80 not down to the dungeon level. This would allow for a consistent level of balance by having a completely known baseline for characters and top end (max level fully geared) as well as allow level80 people to have consistent numbers in their damage and healing and not feel kitten give gear ratings, assess those ratings upon entering a dungeon and scale the monsters to the average gear rating. Weren’t fractals supposed to do something of this nature?

-dungeons should really have a hard mode. I’m fine with the current difficulty except that it is based on cheap mechanics for the most part… once you learn those cheap things the dungeon becomes trivial and dying is more of a round robin of bad luck than actually failing to do something. Also the babies need to stop crying somehow so make an easy and hard Mode for dungeon explorables…even tho explorables were supposed to be the hard mode in the first place

Since a dev or two seems to be reading this thread

Whoever on your team looked at Arah when it was done and went “yep, this looks like something players will enjoy” should outright be fired.

A lot of the problem with complaints of dungeon difficulty one way or another is the fact that players in general don’t understand the need for balance in repetition.

Story dungeons are your starter dungeons for new players. It should be set so a bunch of new players with no experience can blunder through them without having to do all the content several times to learn it. The (lack of) rewards are such that it only makes sense to do a story dungeon once on a character and not repeat them over and over.

Explorable dungeons on the other hand are intended to be done over and over again to build up tokens for the rewards. Every player will learn in successive runs how to fight the encounters better.

So, the problem. Where do you set the difficulty bar?

A story mode dungeon should be much easier than the explorable paths for the above reason. I don’t think there are very many cases where this isn’t true. The rewards are terrible for repeat play and because of that it’s not farmed. The bar has to be low so low-level players without a full set of traits in most likely mediocre equipment can get through it without it being an exercise in frustration.

Explorable dungeons, on the other hand, have to have the bar set somewhere in the middle. If it was forgiving to new and low-level players it would be a joke for people on their fifth run through, especially for experienced, higher-leveled people with rare or exotic gear. So what is the majority of the dungeon-going population?

I think it’s the latter. If your average player does these things dozens of times, then it doesn’t make any sense to balance them for the relatively few first-time groups or low-level characters that won’t stay that way. Your average pick-up group will usually contain at least a couple people who have done it before. Counter to this, in order for the content to be accessible you can’t balance all of it for the best-coordinated guild groups who pick character builds and optimal gear for each run. Most people aren’t that into it.

So some people will always find the dungeons super hard and others will find them too easy. GW2 offers dungeons that have ranges of difficulty to appeal more to different groups. My biggest gripe is that difficulty and time invested should scale with reward, and at the moment they don’t. I come from the Grr Difficult camp and to be honest don’t find very much stuff in GW2 dungeons that’s legitimately challenging after you do it a few times, even if you do it the way you’re supposed to without using exploits.

In a lot of other games, ‘end game’ content usually requires a big investment in gear grind and time to actually beat it. Beating all the Arah paths isn’t really a badge of pride because it’s not something only a small minority of the players can actually do. And I won’t say it should be that way, because exclusive content doesn’t get seen by the majority of people.

It just seems to me the only way to make people happy is to make it so there’s a way to scale difficulty and earn fewer or greater rewards.

Looking forward to it. Quite hyped, to be honest, to explore something new. Probably die or wipe a couple of times but to learn from the mistakes and push on. It’s been a while since I’ve had this feeling, as I’ve gone through most of the content and have forgot about the early days of getting slaughtered, rethinking the strategy and trying again.

Regarding the old AC versus new AC discussions, I personally believe that reducing the massive health pools in favor of more interesting (challenging) mechanics is awesome. Nothing is as tedious as a non-intimidating boss monster, whom, after understanding the patterns, you just have to whittle down, percent by percent. And in this case, it’s all about the raw damage you can dish out. The dodge ability exists for a reason. The combat system relies on staying mobile. However, coming from other games which generally requires you to stand still to cast skills, I can see how this can be intimidating. Adapting to the “new” way of doing things can be scary and inconvenient at first but once you pass the learning curve, it’s actually a lot more fun. Now, if proper rewarding scaling would follow this, it might help ease the “CoF1 disease”. If challenging content is more rewarding, the path of least resistance depends more on personal skill and team coordination. And this is something I would like to get rewarded for.

Aireroth.7596:

Looking forward to it. Quite hyped, to be honest, to explore something new. Probably die or wipe a couple of times but to learn from the mistakes and push on. It’s been a while since I’ve had this feeling, as I’ve gone through most of the content and have forgot about the early days of getting slaughtered, rethinking the strategy and trying again.

Regarding the old AC versus new AC discussions, I personally believe that reducing the massive health pools in favor of more interesting (challenging) mechanics is awesome. Nothing is as tedious as a non-intimidating boss monster, whom, after understanding the patterns, you just have to whittle down, percent by percent. And in this case, it’s all about the raw damage you can dish out. The dodge ability exists for a reason. The combat system relies on staying mobile. However, coming from other games which generally requires you to stand still to cast skills, I can see how this can be intimidating. Adapting to the “new” way of doing things can be scary and inconvenient at first but once you pass the learning curve, it’s actually a lot more fun. Now, if proper rewarding scaling would follow this, it might help ease the “CoF1 disease”. If challenging content is more rewarding, the path of least resistance depends more on personal skill and team coordination. And this is something I would like to get rewarded for.

Bah, they will just make so you do it 2-3 times and move on, it will be probably easy like these 2 story instances from 3rd F&F, cause if they make it challenging or even medium difficulty you will see army of whiners.

The problem with dungeons is that they are not hard, they are stupid. One shot kills without warnings, trash mobs insanely OP, mobs condition spam, health pools almost infinite, poor stat scaling on players, loot rewards, no organization or coordination in party, etc, etc, etc…

Lupicus it’s the only wow-like fun fight, with the HP % and the three phases. It’s actually fun and it has a good synergy. Dredge fractal boss was another good example of good game mechanics too. Too bad the reward sucks.

Hmmm I think I’ll post it in this thread:

How am I supposed to enter the Molten facility?

Since I posted my expectations in this thread earlier I think it’s the proper place for some feedback.

I’ve run MWC numerous times now (~6-8), with different professions and team layouts.
Some feedback on what I think of it:

• First attempt was exactly what I was looking for: exploring the unknown, anxious to see what happens next and where the road leads to. Drill sequence was pretty interesting, the mobs on the sides gave some action while “waiting” for the drill to reach the end. Adding gathering nodes inside the dungeon embraced the idea of exploring it a bit more instead of rushing on headfirst (oh that clever ori node…). This only works for the first run of the day, which can either be a good or a bad thing, depending on perspective.

• First “boss” fight against the “Ultimate Murderweapon of Some Inconvenience and No Mobility” was pretty interesting, considering it was a mechanical enemy. This does lead to some problems for condition-based builds, but since the “HP pool” of the core was quite small, it should be manageable. First time around, it felt rather intimidating, with the new “Stressed” icon, locked gates and huge contraptions ready to make quick work of any squishy adventurer. Luckily, the focus was nicely pointed out on top-right corner and transactions between the phases were reasonably timed.

• Rest of the dungeon was rather smooth. New mobs had pretty devastating attacks and getting sneaked up from behind was pretty nasty at first. Nothing too bad, though. And didn’t feel like a drag, as the environment was quite interesting. Hanging cell, for example. Ori node beneath the rock crushers was pretty hilarious, especially as most of the party managed to get caught by surprise.

• Final boss fight: two bosses always makes me cautious, recalling Sorrow’s Embrace. Luckily, we decided to focus on one (Firestorm first time in) and it was quite interesting to see what happened next. I wasn’t aware that you can just jump over the shockwaves at first, leading to some unnecessary damage, but as I was there on my necromancer, shroud-dancing made it quite easy. Still, had to keep an eye on the battlefield and react to it appropriately.

• We did it again right after completing it once as I was curious on how much it would change. It wasn’t as much as I was hoping for but that can easily be explained by it being a story mode dungeon. The mob variety was nice, same with trap sequence change. Also, giving the choice of which final boss to kill first and to deal with the consequences gave more options. After learning how to jump the shockwaves, it got even better, as I didn’t have to worry about my endurance that much anymore. Also, it made jumping an effective part of combat, as it was mainly limited to jumping puzzles only before.

• Reward wise, it’s still RNG and you don’t really get the rewards based on team efficiency. However, I do understand that implementing something of that magnitude would be a quite complex task, so I don’t expect this to happen overnight. On the current state, the drops are rather appealing, as many people managed to make some extra gold off of it.

TL;DR: Jumping as part of combat is awesome, giving a whole new dimension to it. Mob variations help as you need to adapt more and have some “unknown” variable to your runs. Rewards are decent (many people are a lot richer now). All-in-all, a step in the right direction.

Dungeons and events should be Soloable or at least Duo-able for those of us who primarily play MMOs with a significant other.

When I read about a cool new event and the two of us travel there and read ‘5 players recommended’ it is rather disheartening and lowers my enjoyment of the game.

Fallow.9416:

Dungeons and events should be Soloable or at least Duo-able for those of us who primarily play MMOs with a significant other.

When I read about a cool new event and the two of us travel there and read ‘5 players recommended’ it is rather disheartening and lowers my enjoyment of the game.

It is however fully possible to duo it as well as solo it. So give it a try.
It might take some time and quite a few tries, but it is very possible.

Find a bunch of players who do this dungeon for the first time, and I promise you have a blast of fun

Best dungeon with good replay ability in the game so far! Keep it up!

PS. The length of the dungeon is spot on.

Please fix the exploit where people stand inside the Char In P2 of the last boss.
I do this instance just because I enjoy that fight, and having everyone go in and cheese it is infuriating.

Fiontar.4695:

Wildstar is going even further by allowing dungeons to scale from Solo all the way up to Raid size groupings. IMO, they get the new Paradigm, while some at Arenanet don’t comprehend that paradigm, even though GW2 itself has spearheaded the current paradigm shift for the MMO genre!

Wish this was the case with GW2, me and my brother ran AC story then path 1 recently (the first time both have done any dungeon content), we both have 80’s in full exotics and we had watched some duo runs by others.

Story mode was decent, most fights where easy, occasionally we’d wipe and the lovers boss fight took a few goes to work out a stratergy and in a few points we had to rally one another but managed to complete it.

Got to path 1… 10 goes at the spider queen we finally downed her, each time it got easier as we learned what to do and what not to do (even after watching vids of her fight)… unfortunately, we reached Hodgins and thought it wouldnt be to hard 6 mounds to destroy two pop at a time was our initial expectation with mound kills being tracked. Well couldnt get past that bit as a duo, tried everything even trying to round everything up as one of us took out the mounds, no luck (maybe more dps would have done it, hes a mesmer im a guardian), now if as a duo the mounds spawned only 2 at a time and the next 2 only spawned once the first 2 had been destroyed (we just couldnt kill the initial spawns no matter how much we hit em for some reason so no idea if the gravelings continue to respawn if the mounds arent killed first).

So yeah, if they scaled dungeons from 2man to a full party it would be quite enjoyable, and challenging. Just surprised they never did, i wouldnt go as far as making solo versions, but duo and up would have been great.

The whole experience sort of made the idea of running dungeons off putting, surprised to hear AC is harder than the rest, might give some of the others a look see.

maddoctor.2738:

Hmmm I think I’ll post it in this thread:

How am I supposed to enter the Molten facility?

I used an entrance in Wayfarer Foothills near Fusenfell Creek, but the wiki page says it’s somewhere else on the map. I believe I heard that there are several entrances and depending on which you use, you get a different map layout.

My opinion on the dungeon:
Awesome work, really nice and fun mechanics/fights. If the other dungeons could be remade including this kind of fight/boss mechanic mindset, that would be even better!

My opinion:

Fotm players long ago told how boring dredge stage at champion is due to continue invul + long daze.

Molten protector shield is exactly the proof you read and do theopposite players ask.

5 second shield is more than enough…most professions don t have tools to pull out mobs and most area are not large enough to do that.

That is imho the main mistake of the dungeon….

Second mistake is the boss.
1st the circle aoe are difficult to jump due to the latence/lack of precision of collisions…
Its doable once you learn to compensate but its not what an average player does…

2nd there is some sort of invisible attack that stacks lot of fire and kill players.
It may be something just hard to see but how of 5 runs with pugs i saw everyone has the same issue….

3 the “lupicus” aoes…..people complained how you get hit out of circles by lupicus…..why the same behavior for dredge boss?

4 charr HP ._. lower them.

In few words….i can t understand why new dungeon have the same very mistakes most complained by dungeon runners since months….

Robert Hrouda.1327:

Fiontar.4695:

I hope the other things you’ve been working on aren’t more “fun” improvements to dungeons and world PvE mobs. So far, you’ve proven the existence of “anti-fun” as a real property and your pursuit of it has been disconcerting! (It’s probably not a good sign to have some fans breath a sigh of relief to learn that the new dungeon was not created by the Dungeon Team…) ;P

What someone defines as fun is often different from what another person calls fun. I’m sorry our dungeon work has not appealed to you and others, but there is an audience for what we do. My hope is that in the future, we can build something that appeals to you and other folks currently not on board with our dungeon content, while still staying true to the people who have enjoyed our content thus far. Bridging that gap is not an easy process, but I am confident that such things are not impossible feats

Wow, this thread has gone off topic. haha.

But I did want to add that I appreciate this kind and thoughtful response from Robert even in the face of un-constructive criticism. Looking forward to seeing the next batch of changes and how the devs incorporated the constructive feedback from the players.

Svarty.8019:

maddoctor.2738:

Hmmm I think I’ll post it in this thread:

How am I supposed to enter the Molten facility?

I used an entrance in Wayfarer Foothills near Fusenfell Creek, but the wiki page says it’s somewhere else on the map. I believe I heard that there are several entrances and depending on which you use, you get a different map layout.

I made that post while it was bugged on the first day, now it’s open consistently, it just changes location each day (??) rotating between Diessa and Wayfarer. The layout is always the same as far as I know.

maddoctor.2738:

I made that post while it was bugged on the first day, now it’s open consistently, it just changes location each day (??) rotating between Diessa and Wayfarer. The layout is always the same as far as I know.

The layout of the dungeon is the same, thoigh the spawns change up. Last night a cadre of Transparent Oozes appeared, which immidiately began chain pulling my whole party. Grrrr…

Ive been in this facility many times already. Anyone know the drop rate for jet pack or infinite tonic?

This is how a dungeon should be made. NOW: Make a “hard mode” and have the rewards scale up to reflect that “hard mode.”

Coldkiller, I agree with half of your post

Coldkiller.3152:

In my honest opinion, dungeons in this game are by far the weakest part of the game. I am not completely blaming the dungeon design team though because the lack of trinity makes it harder to design good dungeons.

That’s the part I don’t agree. This game has no trinity and we just have to deal with it. Most players that came from trinity-based games can only think of fight mechanics which has an extremely artificial “threat-inducer” role and a pure healing class. This game here is much more situational and I appreciate that. If the boss is hitting you, you need to survive it and the other players have to support you. You have to think as a healer, tank and DPS instead of bringing very obvious spells on your bar to fill a very specific role.

However, it’s not rocket science that trash shouldn’t hit so hard for the rewards they offer. Also the bosses need to be large enough for their dodge attacks to be seen by people.

That I agree completely.

Regarding Molten Weapon Facility, specifically the final fight’s Molten Berserker:

Please add a PBAoE damage component to all versions of his stomp / shockwave attack that hits for slightly higher damage than the actual shockwave, in a range similar to the space he occupies. Stacking inside him so that you don’t get hit creates this bizarre social pressure where people think I’m out to sabotage them by not using that particular exploit.

I think this whole dungeon is miles ahead of any of the dungeons that were originally released with the game. There’s still plenty of room for improvement though (I would love to see less linear dungeons). But for a limited time “living story dungeon”, it is a great piece of work.

This, along with Fractals, is the best GW2 has at the moment (in my opinion) dungeon-wise.

Dear Devs,
Ran MF with my Guild last night, was nice of them to include my Lv 74 in their party.

‘cept it does not work; although I’ve been anything but cheap; my Lv Scaled Toon is not wearing exotic armor, not having that oppertunity, and might as well have been wearing TP. My POV was time and time again jammed up my own nose, because I ventured to close to a wall, and god forbid I should see what I’m doing. I was in no position to contribute to my guild or our team with my Pseudo 80 toon…

The Art, what I could see of it when my camera was not looking up my own nose; was really good; and the Mobs challanging. The Final bosses seemed a bit absurd; how is one supposed to dodge when literally the entire space one is in is carpeted by a series of interlocked target circles, but my real problems arose from the fact my Lv70+ armor, geared for toughness and vitality; was simply useless in this enviroment.

Please, Please, Please give up this Idea that Levels dont matter, that Lv 80s can be nerfed down for Wayfarers and Lv 15s can be Blown up for Dungeons.. its nonsense. If you want to run world without Levels write that game, and good luck marketing it; but the present circumstance is nonsense. And IMHO is ruining my experiance of what might otherwise be a great game; and I doubt I’m alone in that opinion.

Its a shame this Dungeon will be gone soon, I might have enjoyed it in few months with a properly leveled and geared up toon.

Claudia De Anar.6304:

Dear Devs,
Ran MF with my Guild last night, was nice of them to include my Lv 74 in their party.

‘cept it does not work; although I’ve been anything but cheap; my Lv Scaled Toon is not wearing exotic armor, not having that oppertunity, and might as well have been wearing TP.

I ran it on my 56 Ranger (She’s 80 as of Sunday) last week with no issues in PuGs. I ran it on my 80 Thief who is not in Exotics. Later I ran the ranger all through the 70s in 50ish greens because I just don’t care until 80. No problems at all with PuGs, and I certainly wasn’t carried because there were times these geared 80s flat out didn’t know what to do and I had to save the day.

I don’t doubt your tale, I’m just wondering how there can be a huge disconnect.

Softspoken.2410:

Regarding Molten Weapon Facility, specifically the final fight’s Molten Berserker:

Please add a PBAoE damage component to all versions of his stomp / shockwave attack that hits for slightly higher damage than the actual shockwave, in a range similar to the space he occupies. Stacking inside him so that you don’t get hit creates this bizarre social pressure where people think I’m out to sabotage them by not using that particular exploit.

On my Ranger, sometimes I’m unable to stand inside. It flat out blocks me, like a wall, even if he’s in the air. I died on two runs because of that.

LordByron.8369:

My opinion:

Fotm players long ago told how boring dredge stage at champion is due to continue invul + long daze.

Molten protector shield is exactly the proof you read and do theopposite players ask.

5 second shield is more than enough…most professions don t have tools to pull out mobs and most area are not large enough to do that.

That is imho the main mistake of the dungeon….

Second mistake is the boss.
1st the circle aoe are difficult to jump due to the latence/lack of precision of collisions…
Its doable once you learn to compensate but its not what an average player does…

The Molten Protectors were badly designed imo. They should have been ranged mobs so that when you do knock them out of their ring, they don’t immediately run back into it. I also hate dungeon mechanics which punish the whole party for one person’s stupidity. If someone stand inside the ring and gets aggro, even if you knock the mob out, it will just run back into the ring to attack the moron in your party who ignores all advice given to them. If they had been ranged mobs, they wouldn’t run back into the ring in most cases. It might have also been better to end the ring effect once they were knocked out (or allowed it to be cancelled by the woefully underpowered stun skills to reward people for doing something other than DPS and reflects). As it is, this mechanic is simply to deal with if your party isn’t stupid. Aggro the mob but don’t move to him, this will cause him to move to you outside of his ring and it’s just normal (this is a mistake imo, I like that it doesn’t require class skills but it kind of defeats the purpose of the whole design).

I agree with the jump thing. There is something very off about the timing or precision of what the graphic looks like and when a jump is deemed successful. Maybe it’s because I have a lower ping, but I find the jump mechanic to be very unreliable and inconsistent. I ended up just dodging through or standing out of range.

PsionicDingo.2065:

I ran it on my 56 Ranger (She’s 80 as of Sunday) last week with no issues in PuGs. I ran it on my 80 Thief who is not in Exotics. Later I ran the ranger all through the 70s in 50ish greens because I just don’t care until 80. No problems at all with PuGs, and I certainly wasn’t carried because there were times these geared 80s flat out didn’t know what to do and I had to save the day.

I don’t doubt your tale, I’m just wondering how there can be a huge disconnect.

Due props,
I think the ‘there were times these geared 80s flat out didn’t know what to do and I had to save the day.’ speaks to chunk of that disconnect; knowing where U are and how to position yourself in any game means alot.

Just the same while I’ve never been a fan of the Lv Nerf going down, the Lv Buff going up (to me) seems worse; glad for you, you’ve had a better experiance of it. C.

Did a run on my level 10 Ranger earlier, and ended up solo’ing the last 1/5th of the final boss (phase 1).xD We also had a level 21 Necro in the party.