Guild Wars 2

So basicaly we get an 10% dmg nerv on zerk gear and are allowed to use another sigil on our 2h wpn to compensate for the dmg loss.

Which would be the best combination?
Force+Night sounds pretty obvious for me, but how we deal on daytime?

Fire+Force?
Fire+Air?

Pls discuss the most efficient after stacking 25 bloodlust

No…just….no. Fire sucks. Night + force, undead + force, force + battle for daytime.

Pls leav a reasoning behind your thoughts

The reasoning behind that is basically that 5% damage on every hit will end up doing more damage than fire would. The fire and air sigil procs actually do a very low amount of damage compared to their activation chance. We will have to see though, they said this chance on crit might be changed, so its impossible to say now.

Well all on Crit-Damage Sigils will be bumped up to 100% chance to procc once their internal cooldown expires. So they will procc for more reliably.

A while back someone calculated that Sigil of Fire was a 7% DPS increase on a Zerker build…..on single targets. It’s probably much more if you account for the AoE.

They didn’t say that every sigil would get 100% chance, and I would like to see the math on that 7% thing

Sigil of battle is better than force, at least for warriors and guardians? So the best combinations would be battle+night or battle+force, so the best combination for a warrior would be night+battle for axe/mace and force+night for greatsword. For daytime dungeon you could use a slaying sigil instead of the night sigil.

Well i agree with u abt the night+force thingy,
but if it’s not night time nor arah, i would chose fire over battle all the way,
since u get the might stacks anyway.

Dunno abt the real dmg increase cuzz it differs from build to build but from my hotm testing the fire sigil hits for around 1.2k every 5secs aoe.

Does the 5% dmg increase outweighten this?
(also you have to seperate between optimized groups having 25 might and invul and pug groups whr u don t have this kind of luxority)

Would be nice if someone does some testing on non optimal/optimal group composition and the dmg output over time (maybe 20sec) between both

Might consider fire the higher dmg output in pugplay and force in organized groups,
sadlyi m writing from my cellphone atm and can t test

Casmurro.9046:

Sigil of battle is better than force, at least for warriors and guardians? So the best combinations would be battle+night or battle+force, so the best combination for a warrior would be night+battle for axe/mace and force+night for greatsword. For daytime dungeon you could use a slaying sigil instead of the night sigil.

Only if your group typically doesn’t reach more than 20 stacks of might. So I’d rather take an unconditional sigil than one that is completely useless in a good group.

I think for a zerk elementalist, 5% more dmg is bigger than 3 stacks of might, even though I personally cannot keep up 20 stacks of might. It is because we have access to more damage modifiers than most classes, which boosts our effective power.

So for dungeons, I keep Force+Night, Force+Energy and Undead Slaying+Energy (Lupi) or Force+Undead Slaying in MH and OF weps. I’ll probably add Force+Night for staff.

Since some of the sigils are being reworked and balanced as part of the update, we’re really just going to have to wait and see what the damage and cooldowns are on fire and air.
That said, night and force is a clear frontrunner in terms of raw dps on 2h weapons where endurance is not an issue.

I would argue that you’ll want a battle for most of fractals, as maintaining might in fractals is significantly more difficult than normal dungeons.

The Mexican Cookie.3690:

I would argue that you’ll want a battle for most of fractals, as maintaining might in fractals is significantly more difficult than normal dungeons.

I haven’t climbed up there yet but I will take your advice into consideration.

Night & Battle, or Night & Force on your 30/25 Warrior.

Daytime is Force & Battle, or Force & Fire 30/25 Warrior

Undead & Battle & Undead and Force 30/25 Warrior.

Dee Jay.2460:

Well all on Crit-Damage Sigils will be bumped up to 100% chance to procc once their internal cooldown expires. So they will procc for more reliably.

A while back someone calculated that Sigil of Fire was a 7% DPS increase on a Zerker build…..on single targets. It’s probably much more if you account for the AoE.

With one attack every 0.5 seconds and 100% Critical Chance it should proc every 5 + 0.5*10/3 = 6.667 s. With about 1.5k damage (sounds bit high to me, perhaps with decent buffs) that is about 0.23k DPS (or 0.3k DPS with perfect procs).

With 5k single target DPS (low damage) that means 4.5%/6% more damage.
With 10k single target DPS (more likely with those buffs) that means 2.3%/3% more damage.

However, the damage isn’t really the issue. Wasting sigil cooldown is (not to mention fire effect clutter). But we will see how it goes after patch.

Iris Ng.9845:

I think for a zerk elementalist, 5% more dmg is bigger than 3 stacks of might, even though I personally cannot keep up 20 stacks of might. It is because we have access to more damage modifiers than most classes, which boosts our effective power.

So for dungeons, I keep Force+Night, Force+Energy and Undead Slaying+Energy (Lupi) or Force+Undead Slaying in MH and OF weps. I’ll probably add Force+Night for staff.

3 stacks of Might is 105 Power. If you have more than 2100 Power then 105 Power is less than 5% damage.

However, the thing with Battle is that it carries over to second weapon set (yeah, doesn’t apply to Elementalist) which basically doubles the effect. Actual number depends on damage difference between the sets (weaker weapon set should have Battle so it carries over to the stronger one).

Example: 2100 Power, first weapon set does 10k damage, second 5k damage, 50% of time spend on each set. Without sigils 7.5k DPS. With Force, 7.875k DPS (5% more). With Force + Battle, second set gets 5% more damage, first set gets 5% and 5% more damage which results in 50% * 10k * 1.05 * 1.05 + 50% * 5k * 1.05 = 8.1375k DPS (8.5% more).

Also for example Warriors can swap much faster resulting in double stacks.

CptAurellian.9537:

Doesn’t battle have an ICD right now, so that the warrior’s swap reduction advantage is almost nullified?

ICD is 10 seconds. With 5 sec swaps two swaps take 10 seconds which matches perfectly.

Doesn’t battle have an ICD right now, so that the warrior’s swap reduction advantage is almost nullified?

Personally as a mesmer, I plan on going for a strength set with battle sigils, with the 45% longer might you can keep up 9 might stacks almost permanently in a perfect situation, and 6 stacks with relative ease. As this affect my illusions its amazing.

Next to that, my power is actually around 2100, making that a 10% to 15% damage increase which affects all but phantasms, and with the scholar rune’s dissapearance only make me lose some critical damage, while switching 10% damage above 90% to a permanent 5% boost.

This will all depend on what other runesets are changing, naturally, but its my current theory(naturally keeping scholar sets for more reflection based/shorter fights)

Other classes that only use one mainhand weapon (like mesmer sword) can use sigil of battle at its full potential. If you put it on your mainhand and you swap between your offhands (pistol/sword/focus) it will still proc, so you only have to wait one second after your swap cd and then do it.

Nosoyelarty.7268:

Other classes that only use one mainhand weapon (like mesmer sword) can use sigil of battle at its full potential. If you put it on your mainhand and you swap between your offhands (pistol/sword/focus) it will still proc, so you only have to wait one second after your swap cd and then do it.

Actually while the biggest number you see on your weapon swap is 9, the total amount of time between swaps is already 10 seconds, so you can just swap immediately

Wethospu.6437:

Iris Ng.9845:

I think for a zerk elementalist, 5% more dmg is bigger than 3 stacks of might, even though I personally cannot keep up 20 stacks of might. It is because we have access to more damage modifiers than most classes, which boosts our effective power.

So for dungeons, I keep Force+Night, Force+Energy and Undead Slaying+Energy (Lupi) or Force+Undead Slaying in MH and OF weps. I’ll probably add Force+Night for staff.

3 stacks of Might is 105 Power. If you have more than 2100 Power then 105 Power is less than 5% damage.

However, the thing with Battle is that it carries over to second weapon set (yeah, doesn’t apply to Elementalist) which basically doubles the effect. Actual number depends on damage difference between the sets (weaker weapon set should have Battle so it carries over to the stronger one).

Example: 2100 Power, first weapon set does 10k damage, second 5k damage, 50% of time spend on each set. Without sigils 7.5k DPS. With Force, 7.875k DPS (5% more). With Force + Battle, second set gets 5% more damage, first set gets 5% and 5% more damage which results in 50% * 10k * 1.05 * 1.05 + 50% * 5k * 1.05 = 8.1375k DPS (8.5% more).

Also for example Warriors can swap much faster resulting in double stacks.

I have roughly 2400 Power before food. So I assume that Sigil of Force is better than Sigil of Battle? But how’s about Force+Battle for generic daytime dungeons? Would it work?

Personally I’ve been using double force for daytime when going for 2 dmg sigils. Then again I run quite a bit of forceful greatsword warrior which is as far from ideal of a battle sigil user as it gets. And before someoen points out force doesn’t stack with itself, it actually does, at least in pvp. That is something to be tested again after next patch, though.

I tested it the other day in heart of the mists. It doesnt stack. Nova did the same and confirmed this. :P

I tested today with both nec and mes, stacking for both tests…

Konu.1826:

I tested today with both nec and mes, stacking for both tests…

Just tested it with my guard in HoftM.

And nope, they dont stack. The funny thing, after equipping the 2nd Force Sigil, I did 1 dmg less, looks like some rounding issue.

I ran the test with mesmer again, This time I swapped weapons with/without sigil around. Sometimes testing with no 2nd set equipped, sometimes with no force in oh, sometimes wtih no force in mh etc. At one point I got few results pointing to both sets doing the higher of the two dmg values but then the tries with only 1 force sigil got lowered again. I wasn’t able to reproduce the raise in dmg with 1 force sigil after that no matter what I tried so I guess the game is just broken, not surprised.

That’s very well possible. Some months ago, I tested whether the 6th bonus of runes of strength worked. On the first test it did, but I wasn’t able to reproduce it afterwards when someone else pointed me to his failure to reproduce.

But remember: It’s not a bug, it’s a feature …

Conclusion:
For warriors gs night force / am night force
Daytime gs fire force / am force battle, since two battle would be rendered useless

What’s about elementalists?

On a second thought, it’s actually not good for staff if I don’t trait into Arcana, and I hardly do so, aka. 13 sec recharge. Furthermore, I mostly camp in Fire.

Are there any other options for staff ele, in daytime dungeon???

Fire Sigil DPS is probably never going to be the choice for PvE. Just rough math gives it about 251.63 DPS increase on single target.
Using 2100 base power, 1100 average weapon strenght and base armor of 1836 and assuming that it will have 100% proc chance. If we assume 10k DPS on a warrior That’s about 2.5% DPS increase and a 5% if your warrior is doing 5k DPS average.

Is 25k “lower end” of Warrior DPS?

Keiel.7489:

Fire Sigil DPS is probably never going to be the choice for PvE. Just rough math gives it about 251.63 DPS increase on single target.
Using 2100 base power, 1100 average weapon strenght and base armor of 1836 and assuming that it will have 100% proc chance. If we assume 10k DPS on a warrior That’s about 2.5% DPS increase and a 5% if your warrior is doing 5k DPS average.

Wethospu.6437:

Is 25k “lower end” of Warrior DPS?

Sorry was thinking of 25k damage on a hundred blade, corrected it while you typed your message.

Figured I’d bump this thread up a bit. I think you are underestimating the damage on the sigil of air by a significant amount – my guardian with a 10/25/0/10/25 build, max active boons and 9 might can proc a sigil of air for 2400, and as boons diminish it goes down to about 1700. With full might I expect that I would be hitting for a several hundred more points on the air proc. So, under ideal circumstances it’s going to be adding quite a bit more DPS than what Wethospu estimated.

Anything which buffs your sigil damage also buffs your normal damage so the ratio should stay same.

And using my previous numbers, 3k proc would result in 4.6% more damage with 10k dps.

I don’t think 4.6% is a bad choice for a starting weapon set that can be used in most any dungeon and still be reasonably effective. It’s not very feasible to have an ascended weapon with specific sigils for every single dungeon until you’re swimming in resources (my core characters tend to have between 2 and 4 ascended weapons). If you have only one ascended mainhand and one ascended offhand, having one with force and the other with air doesn’t seem too bad.

You have to keep in mind that Air uses a sigil cooldown so can’t use stuff like Energy or Battle then.

Sure, it’s ok like Ruby Orbs.

Wethospu.6437:

You have to keep in mind that Air uses a sigil cooldown so can’t use stuff like Energy or Battle then.

Sure, it’s ok like Ruby Orbs.

I thought we were talking post patch

Wethospu.6437:

You have to keep in mind that Air uses a sigil cooldown so can’t use stuff like Energy or Battle then.

Sure, it’s ok like Ruby Orbs.

In a solo situation, energy and battle are probably better. I would never attempt to solo Lupicus or the Risen Statue of Dwayna without at least one energy sigil. If you are in an optimal party, battle is redundant because you will generally maintain full might, and energy is not as important if you can kill bosses fast enough.

spoj.9672:

I tested it the other day in heart of the mists. It doesnt stack. Nova did the same and confirmed this. :P

see this then
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYp-Ytdsjcg

TheKillerAngel.3596:

Wethospu.6437:

You have to keep in mind that Air uses a sigil cooldown so can’t use stuff like Energy or Battle then.

Sure, it’s ok like Ruby Orbs.

In a solo situation, energy and battle are probably better. I would never attempt to solo Lupicus or the Risen Statue of Dwayna without at least one energy sigil. If you are in an optimal party, battle is redundant because you will generally maintain full might, and energy is not as important if you can kill bosses fast enough.

If you want optimal you can always keep replacing those sigils. Undead, etc. cost like 2-3 silvers each?

Sanderinoa.8065:

Wethospu.6437:

You have to keep in mind that Air uses a sigil cooldown so can’t use stuff like Energy or Battle then.

Sure, it’s ok like Ruby Orbs.

I thought we were talking post patch

I’m not ready for that yet.

Amicable Pugs.4503:

spoj.9672:

I tested it the other day in heart of the mists. It doesnt stack. Nova did the same and confirmed this. :P

see this then
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYp-Ytdsjcg

This is not how they interact when you swap weapon sets out of combat. My guess is theres no check on what sigil you already have equipped so if you start with force on 1 and then weapon swap to get a 2nd sigil it will just increase by 5%. But if you start the fight with both sigils of force equipped it will only count the first 1. Thats the only way i can explain why it produces conflicting results when testing slightly differently. Ill test it myself to check my theory.

Either way its broken. It just seems to be a bug that stacking force works sometimes.

Just tested on necro. Using your method of testing force still doesnt stack. My only guess is warrior is broken….

Or somehow your first sigil wasnt working to start with? Which is just what happened to me when recording a video. I got the same values as with no sigils. So i suggest you check no sigils aswell when testing because it seems sometimes they completely dont work.

Yes i’m aware of how they work, just wanted to show that they DO stack IF some weird conditions are met but overall it’s a pointless method and not worth it imo.
And yes i did redo it just now and they don’t stack.

Yeah i just did a quick vid.

http://youtu.be/NwJylzmE9ao

The numbers you got with 1 sigil were the numbers i got with 0 sigils and the numbers you got with 2 sigils was the number i got with 1 and 2 sigils. So they never stack, but sometimes one sigil doesnt register.

Sigil stacking (works on “Always On”, “On Crit” and “On Swap” sigils):

1) Whenever you equip a weapon you automatically switch to that weapon set
2) Whenever you switch to a weapon set its sigils will be checked
3) If 2 same sigils are detected then anti-stacking rule is applied to both weapon sets.
4) With anti-stacking rule you need 2 sigils to get the effect (only 1 sigil has no effect)
5) Anti-stacking rule is only cleared if you switch to a weapon set with no sigils from that rule

Case 1: Equip Force/Force on set 1. Anti-stacking rule is applied. Equip Force/X on set 2. Set 2 gets no damage bonus. Unequip both weapons at set 1 while being on set 2. Rule is not cleared and set 2 gets no damage bonus.

Case 2: Equip X/Force on set 1. Equip Force (mainhand) on set 2. Set 2 gets offhand from set 1 and anti-stacking rule is applied. Set 1 gets no damage bonus. Equip /X to set 2. Set 2 gets no damage bonus. Equip /X on set 1. Rule is cleared and set 2 gets damage bonus.

Case 3: Equip Force/Force on set 1. Anti-stacking rule is applied. Equip Force (twohanded) on set 2. Set 2 gets no damage bonus. Switch to set 1. Unequip both weapons. You automatically switch to set 2 so rule is not cleared. Switch weapon from set 2 to set 1. Rule is cleared (I guess it switches to an empty weapon set first) and set 1 gets damage bonus.

So basically if you accidentally stack sigils unequip all your weapons. And be extra careful when dealing with main/offhand combos.

Such bugs!

So basically never double stack the sigils. I wonder if this is going to be a problem with GS when we have double sigil slots. I assume because the weapons are different it shouldnt happen?

Wethospu.6437:

TheKillerAngel.3596:

Wethospu.6437:

You have to keep in mind that Air uses a sigil cooldown so can’t use stuff like Energy or Battle then.

Sure, it’s ok like Ruby Orbs.

In a solo situation, energy and battle are probably better. I would never attempt to solo Lupicus or the Risen Statue of Dwayna without at least one energy sigil. If you are in an optimal party, battle is redundant because you will generally maintain full might, and energy is not as important if you can kill bosses fast enough.

If you want optimal you can always keep replacing those sigils. Undead, etc. cost like 2-3 silvers each?

I had considered doing this, but keeping several piles of dungeon specific sigils across all my characters would get expensive pretty fast. I’ll probably try it once I have all my core ascended weapons finished and can afford to have one ascended weapon that can change sigils on the go.

Wethospu, once again you impress me with your knowledge of the mechanics of this game’s bugs.

This explains why my energy sigil weapons sometimes don’t work when I equip them for running sections, and why unequipping my weapons fixes it.

Wow.

very helpful! no wonder dolan and james always complained about not getting the energy sigil bonus when trying to solo lupi on thief with d/d s/p.

What were they doing with those energy sigils? Ive never had a problem with this bug on my necro.