My Issues With Dungeons

My Issues With Dungeons

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: ipan.4356

ipan.4356

1) Linear.

Dungeons are a linear path from one room (cavern, encounter area, etc.) to the next. It basically goes, a) Skip boring non-sensical cutscene, b) run into next room and DPS down all enemies, c) open chest and auto-loot it, d) repeat in next room.

On top of that, there are very few of these ‘rooms’ per dungeon, I think Citadel of Flame is like 6 or so encounters, then it’s down. It’s literally a series of combat encounters (not counting the final encounter, which is just running back and forth and throwing rocks).

Where are the multiple paths? The miles deep catacombs and hard to explore dungeons with dead ends, with sections that are literally off the beaten path and have nothing to do with whatever linear objectives we’re told to perform?

Ancient castles with multiple levels (both above and below ground)?

In short, where’s the exploration aspect? All you do is run from one room to the next gunning down enemies. Yes, sometimes there’s some wonky mechanic you have to perform in that room to complete it – but that’s it.

It’s pure farming.

2) Mob encounters.

We need enemies that do really interesting stuff. Like spiders that climb walls. Enemies that know when to retreat and hide (and regroup). Ambushes and chases. Being cut off by cave ins and blockades.

Enemies that can dodge, or form shield walls. You know, basic combat behaviors, that require tactical thinking to beat them (instead of just DPS button mashing).

3) Choices.

The dungeon should physically change based on things you do. For example, causing a cave in that blocks an exit, or opening up a flood gate, making certain passages swimming only. Or closing and barring doors so enemies can’t get in/out. Or whatever. Just stuff that actually changes the layout or configuration of the dungeon in small, subtle ways.

Choices should make large groups (tribes) of enemies behave differently in the dungeon. For example, let’s say you cause a rockslide and wipe out a dozen Skritt – maybe the rest of the Skritt in the dungeon will be afraid of you, and retreat on sight. Or something else. But the idea being that exactly how they behave changes depending on choices you make.

4) Loot.

Although this applies to the game in general, it’s especially bad in dungeons. Never any exotics drop. A handful of tokens that forces you to grind for a long time to get any dungeon based skins (in the year+ I’ve played, I’ve bought precisely one piece of dungeon based gear – a medium Citadel glove).

And nothing really interesting, either. Not like loot in Diablo 3, for example, No legendary items that have unique proc effects. Unique armors that provide auras or passive benefits that cannot be had on any other set.

Hell, even alpha GW2 had Ghastly armor sets that were supposed to glow at night, and give a dmg bonus. What happened to that idea? There should be tons of stuff like that.

5) Solo-ability.

I understand that dungeons should be “hard”, but I also think it’s a huge let down that I cannot do a dungeon unless I can find other people, or have a very narrow pre-set method of soloing (that requires an exact build and armor set).

Yes, I’ve watched the solo videos of people running dungeons, and they’re boring.

Mostly, I think that dungeons should scale, both in difficulty and in rewards – make solo dungeons less rewarding, but give enemies less health, so the average player at least has a chance of winning a fight against a few elites and surviving to heal up before the next fight.

Soloing a dungeon is about the ability to freely explore – I put dungeons off for a long time because they seemed to be exclusively group events, which I don’t do often (since then, I have done some, just to get tokens – but I prefer to solo). But, the main reason for doing this is that many of us just want to be tomb raiders – that is, we want to explore dungeons (and come away with some good loot for our troubles), but we’re not token farmers. We don’t want to speed clear dungeons just to farm tokens.

We actually want explorable content, that we can tackle at our own tempo – I personally enjoy dungeons that take multiple days to complete – I want to log out/camp at key points in the dungeon, picking up my explorations the next day.

I want to reach the 99th floor of the dungeon – after weeks of descent.

In a nutshell, I want dungeons I can explore – not just farm.

Please. Give us exploration players something to do.

Exploration was something that was promised in the Manifesto, and I have to say, that of all the promises Anet reneged on, this was the most disappointing.

My Issues With Dungeons

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: IvanTheGrey.2941

IvanTheGrey.2941

1) Come to Arah. I think you’ll find it far more interesting than every other dungeon path in the game.
2) Come to Arah. I think you’ll find the elite Risen there up to your standards.
3) Sounds awesome, but I honestly don’t see how their servers/devs would handle it. They’re doing a bang up job now (/sarcasm), and any extra work might push them over the edge.
4) Agreed.
5) Hmmmm…. That too sounds awesome, at least the extensive time in a dungeon, but it’s most likely not going to happen. Doesn’t affect the L.S. and gem store.

My Issues With Dungeons

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Posted by: rainynoble.6531

rainynoble.6531

1)Arah
2)Arah
3)That would be nice and refreshing
4)Majority of loot comes from chests and the token/gold at the end because anet don’t want players to farm dungeons over and over. they even nerfed the dungeon event chest to once per day.

Token amount is about right, you just need to play more dungeons.

5)Solo mode is always welcome.

My Issues With Dungeons

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Posted by: cheshirefox.7026

cheshirefox.7026

1) i think in essence ‘exploring’ a dungeon isn’t actually exploring it.. there’s only so many things you could do to make it non-linear.. i support it, but it’s more practical to do non-linear content in open world..
2) again, ‘exploring’ isn’t quite exploring and i’m going to skip to 4) here.. some mobs should be faceroll, Some mobs should be clever or captivating.. what can you really reward players with to motivate them.. fun and playability should be the developers highest priorities when building a dungeon.. but you need to factor in Replayability, time spent and loot.. i’ll be quite honest, most of the community will exploit and run their way past junk mobs or ‘fun mobs’ for a bland piece of gold..
3) dynamic environments are always a plus.. if it’s not convoluted or a waste of resources then sure
5)solo dungeon play is a pitiful display of poor balance and a shortcomming of mmorpg.. if there is a game encounter designed as a solo-path, that’s completely acceptable.. if people are solo-ing regular paths, well.. that really puts the dungeon path in pathetic.. there’s nothing wrong with seeking challenges in whatever corner of a game you choose to do so, but if people are solo-ing a dungeon path.. it’s brokenness needs to be taken into consideration
6)bugs and exploits… find them, fix them
if something becomes blatantly obvious.. the general consensus is “why is it like that” and it’s not a puzzle.. doing it that way better be exceedingly fun compared to the original design, otherwise it is obscure junk

i can outswim a centaur!
when i’m done on an issue
i start talking in nerglish

My Issues With Dungeons

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: ipan.4356

ipan.4356

4)Majority of loot comes from chests and the token/gold at the end because anet don’t want players to farm dungeons over and over. they even nerfed the dungeon event chest to once per day.

I would rather a much longer dungeon (one that could literally take a week to complete) than a shorter one with smaller rewards.

You can’t “farm” a dungeon if it takes you six days just to get to the end (because it’s THAT big).

Also, they really ought to look into using procedural generation for some kind of infinite dungeon – like maybe a new fractal, produced by procedural generation.

My Issues With Dungeons

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Posted by: Minigrump.4961

Minigrump.4961

Is anyone else getting a sense of deja vu reading this forum?

My Issues With Dungeons

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Arenzo.3298

Arenzo.3298

1.dungeons are pretty much open an instance with themed enemies, i still enjoy them
2.before you can excpect those interesting mobs to be in dungeons they need to be all over the open world
3.the second paragraph, i havent seen that in any mmo, have you seen it, if so which one?
4.Even the legendary Weapon is just a skin, this game isnt the same kinda game as diablo, also 1 run through all 3 paths of a dungeon can get you an exotic helm, gloves, or boots
5. the 99 floor dungeon thing, though dont get me wrong would be cool, but i see that as a dungeon crawler thing not an mmo thing

My Issues With Dungeons

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Posted by: Purple Miku.7032

Purple Miku.7032

You want to explore dungeons?

I feel the same way, OP. Wanna know what I do about it?

http://www.twitch.tv/purpleishawt/c/4907922

My Issues With Dungeons

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: dlonie.6547

dlonie.6547

OP, good job summing it up. I think we all agree with you, and would like to see these improvements in future dungeons, if any such thing will ever happen.

And as Purple said, mountain goating is a fun way to explore. You have to fight slightly more intelligent enemies — they don’t walk into meat grinders, but they do think that invisible walls will stop exploiters.

My Issues With Dungeons

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Jerus.4350

Jerus.4350

I have to say, when I first started this game the idea of jumping puzzles and mountain goating that they encouraged was really awesome to see. It’s always been a part of games, finding weird locations that were hard to get to. All the way back in ‘99 when I first started EQ my Uncle and I had a spot we’d meet up at that was one of these. It’s just good fun. But then GW2 seemed to have gone back on that idea, which I find unfortunate.

While I understand it, the flower skip in TA Forward I always found fun, it’s not like it’s much harder to do the run, it just takes a little longer (depending on how good you are at jumping). Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think we should be able to do things that skip bosses but little things like finding new jumping puzzles in dungeons to let you skip trash is just good fun in my book.

My Issues With Dungeons

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Posted by: dlonie.6547

dlonie.6547

While I understand it, the flower skip in TA Forward I always found fun, it’s not like it’s much harder to do the run, it just takes a little longer (depending on how good you are at jumping). Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think we should be able to do things that skip bosses but little things like finding new jumping puzzles in dungeons to let you skip trash is just good fun in my book.

I miss that one :-( I solo’d that path up to the skip a few times just to explore around up there.

That was the first time I realized that the entire dungeon is in the roots of a gigantic, gorgeous, awe-inspiring tree. Like huge. Bigger than I would have guessed.

But now you can’t even see the tree anymore, and it makes me sad :-(

My Issues With Dungeons

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Posted by: Stooperdale.3560

Stooperdale.3560

All the choices and exploring dungeons … well you probably don’t notice the first time as you just run through any way possible to finish. Second and third time through it is great as you experiment and find new things. After a few times maybe players just take the most direct routes to the loots, as fast as they can, and everything else might as well not be there, just like the explorable dungeons we have now.

There would be nothing worse than people kicking each other from dungeons because some want time to explore and some want to speed run. Oh wait a second, they do that already even with linear dungeons ….

My Issues With Dungeons

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Posted by: Purple Miku.7032

Purple Miku.7032

While I understand it, the flower skip in TA Forward I always found fun, it’s not like it’s much harder to do the run, it just takes a little longer (depending on how good you are at jumping). Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think we should be able to do things that skip bosses but little things like finding new jumping puzzles in dungeons to let you skip trash is just good fun in my book.

I miss that one :-( I solo’d that path up to the skip a few times just to explore around up there.

That was the first time I realized that the entire dungeon is in the roots of a gigantic, gorgeous, awe-inspiring tree. Like huge. Bigger than I would have guessed.

But now you can’t even see the tree anymore, and it makes me sad :-(

I still know how to get up on that area

My Issues With Dungeons

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Jerus.4350

Jerus.4350

While I understand it, the flower skip in TA Forward I always found fun, it’s not like it’s much harder to do the run, it just takes a little longer (depending on how good you are at jumping). Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think we should be able to do things that skip bosses but little things like finding new jumping puzzles in dungeons to let you skip trash is just good fun in my book.

I miss that one :-( I solo’d that path up to the skip a few times just to explore around up there.

That was the first time I realized that the entire dungeon is in the roots of a gigantic, gorgeous, awe-inspiring tree. Like huge. Bigger than I would have guessed.

But now you can’t even see the tree anymore, and it makes me sad :-(

I still know how to get up on that area

Purple Miku… I need to go Mountain Goating with you sometime. That or if you stream/video/something where I could watch I’d love to.

My Issues With Dungeons

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: dlonie.6547

dlonie.6547

While I understand it, the flower skip in TA Forward I always found fun, it’s not like it’s much harder to do the run, it just takes a little longer (depending on how good you are at jumping). Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think we should be able to do things that skip bosses but little things like finding new jumping puzzles in dungeons to let you skip trash is just good fun in my book.

I miss that one :-( I solo’d that path up to the skip a few times just to explore around up there.

That was the first time I realized that the entire dungeon is in the roots of a gigantic, gorgeous, awe-inspiring tree. Like huge. Bigger than I would have guessed.

But now you can’t even see the tree anymore, and it makes me sad :-(

I still know how to get up on that area

Bahaha, of course you do. I’d like to learn that one, too!

I’m still working on getting the hang of that pipe >.< Sometimes I get it the first try, sometimes the 600th. Arah is fun again, though! \o/

My Issues With Dungeons

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Purple Miku.7032

Purple Miku.7032

I was streaming myself mountain goating in Metrica Province last night, it was pretty awesome. Also found a magical floating forest with non-collision and spontaneously-changing-to-invisible textures in Fireheart Rise the other day.

Srsly this is like 99999x more fun than actually doing the dungeons tbh.

Y’know what? Now I’m in the mood to goat. Streamin!

(edited by Purple Miku.7032)

My Issues With Dungeons

in Fractals, Dungeons & Raids

Posted by: Saint.5647

Saint.5647

The real issue with dungeons is the lack of new ones. Plain and simple.

Everything about lack of real changes and lack of exploration are the result of more than two years of the same dungeons.

The current dungeons are set pre-Zhaitan’s death. Having new paths for each dungeon, set in the current time would bring that old feeling back. The “living world” has forgotten that dungeons are very much a part of that world and have some interesting story lines that they’re neglecting to explore.

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